And nobody would get your references

Goonies, but it was recorded from TV and you had to switch tapes at about the pirate ship.

My family was pretty poor growing up, but we had cable. Back in the day there would occasionally be free weekends of Disney Channel, HBO and the like. Whenever there was one of those free weekends, my parents would buy a super long blank VHS tape and record hours of random movies. So for years every movie that I watched had an 800 number that would pop up every few minutes asking you to call and subscribe.
- The more things change, the more they stay the same i guess. Sounds like just anout every streaming service out there today.
- My dad would rent movies from blockbuster then set up the camcorder on a tripod to film the movie off the TV. It was always a big to-do since we all had to be quiet so we didn't ruin the recording...
That’s what you get for recording in SP.
- What's SP in this context?
This is the movie I thought of also. My copy was also from TV, but I did have it all on one tape with the exception that we were missing the first three or four minutes of the movie. Even today when I catch the beginning of the movie, I smile a little thinking of all the times I didn't get to watch that.
Hey you guys!!!

Every few months, when the topic of obscure childhood bs comes up in conversation, my husband will always ask about my "made up dinosaur rock band show" from when I was a child.
I've asked so many people in my life, from different areas around the US, varying ages, etc, and only on the internet do I have proof that Denver the Last Dinosaur wasnt a fever dream. 😂
Thank you for my quarterly validation.
HE'S MY FRIEND AND A WHOLE LOT MORE
...wait what
- DEN-VER! The last diiinosaur
  My brain did the same thing. What the hell else is stored down in there??
He's my friend and a whole lot more! Ew.
I have finally found it, thank you stranger.
Kyle Mooney made a show about this era of cartoons that everyone needs to watch!:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Morning_All_Star_Hits!
oh my god

Police Academy 1-7 but mostly 4.

Dont sleep on Police Academy 3: Citizens on Patrol
Edit: C.O.P was 4. I feel shame
- Yeah. 1 and 3 were recorded during one of those HBO free weekends for us.
- That was number 4. I used to think the skating and "robot" scenes were the coolest shit ever.
I only had 6. All I can say is "cigar scene"
I still yell "they're not yielding!" when I'm driving

I had the same thing with video games. My dad got a free promotional copy of Morrowind from Fry's. I didn't have a computer/ laptop, but every summer, my dad would let me use his on our road trips. That game made me want to learn so much about anthropology, biology, history, mythology, etc... I played for hundreds of hours and never even came close to finishing.

Morrowind is one of my favorites of all time. I was into nag champa incense at the time, and so that smell will always remind me of Morrowind. Singing about the ambiance of Morrowind was kinda incense-y anyway, so it was the perfect combo
- I love nag champa! The og smells so sweet, and the ashes are pretty/ easy to clean. I always think of headshops, though lol. They taught me the bottle trick, though. I like to use a key ring to hold the insence upside down in a glass bottle. It's super clean.
never even came close to finishing.
It is an Elder Scrolls game, you don't finish those, the existence of the main quest is merely a theoretical thing from myth and legend.
My dad got a PS2 when I was six. There was Jak and Daxter, and there was Colin McRae Rally. Later I also ended up with Sly Cooper.
I didn’t have many friends to compare with so that was what I played. Everyone else played Crash Bandicoot, Pokémon, Mario games, etc. and I was like “have you heard about Ratchet and Clank”? Those series eventually got more popular but no one I knew had them at the time.
- I had Sly as well! The soundtrack was awesome.

Me and the other Brave Little Toaster kids ended up a bit weird.

We just rewatched this with our daughter the other day and it is rrrrrough.
Yeah... yeah we did I guess. At least a bit

The Craft. I'm pretty sure Fairuza Balk is responsible for awakening my goth fetish.

Have you seen Return to Oz? It's a hell of a ride. Disney wants everyone to forget this exists.
Her character in the Waterboy was it for me.
- Waterboy? Did he solve puzzles in temples with his partner Firegirl?
Heh heh this guy was feeling light as a feather and stiff as a board!

The Sandlot for me

Short Circuit and Flight of the Navigator. Had them both on one tape and I'd sit down and watch it all in one sitting.

Add Batteries Not Included to the list and that's me.
Just in case you needed reminding how good Flight of the Navigator was:
https://youtu.be/tyixMpuGEL8
- My brother and I loved this movie so much and must've watched it 100 times.

Uncle Buck Great movie.

When I was a kid I wanted to grow up to be uncle Buck. Unfortunately my brother took that position (down to driving a shit car that randomly backfires) and I'm just a normal dude 😕
- Yeah, being the slightly dangerous uncle is a pretty sweet gig, NGL.

And it was recorded off the tv so you had to fast forward through commercials about clap-on clap-off lights

And the beginning of films were cut off. Big Trouble in Little China starts at the poker table for me-- I never realized Jack Burton (😍) had a monologue at the start.
My dad would pause the recording when commercials started and resumed recording when the commercials ended. It was funny when he was 15 sec late on both accounts lol.

I would tell people about Death Race 2000 and they'd look at me like I was crazy.

But have you seen its sequel?
- No. I will not see it. They cannot improve upon perfection.
"Its a hand grenade." Made me almost leave the room.

And I'm actively trying to go back to that. I ripped all of our old DVDs and Blurays and cancelled most of our streaming services. I told my kids that we can buy pretty much anything they want (so they don't miss out), provided it's not an exclusive.

The net result is that my kids really like Clue (1985) and Avatar: The Last Airbender (2005-2008).

my kids really like Clue (1985)
One of the best movies ever so that speaks pretty well to their tastes.
- Tim Curry is a gift to humanity that we don't deserve.
You're raising them right. Lol
Do you have the ripped movies on a Plex server or something that's easy for them to use?
- Yup, Jellyfin. Unfortunately, my youngest kept watching even after I said no, so it's locked behind a passcode. But when it's watching time, I unlock it and let them pick. We have some Pokemon seasons, Studio Ghibli animations, and a bunch of other kid-friendly shows and movies for them to choose from.
My daughter liked both of those a lot.
But then she also really loves Forbidden Zone and Killer Klowns from Outer Space.
She's a weird kid. Like her mom and dad.

I had an aunt with the Disney channel and HBO that recorded almost everything. It was like a home video store at her house, probably hundreds of tapes that she let friends and family borrow. She have me a spare copy of the Disney animated Robin Hood with all the animals and I must have watched it a hundred times.

My great aunt had 101 Dalmations. Just that film. Every time we visited, we would just sit there for an hour watching it. Over and over. It was great.
My "rich" aunt (relative to my family) had a laserdisc player. I would watch the Disney Robin Hood, as well as Star Wars and Star Trek The Motion Picture.
- Damn, your aunt had a laser disc setup? Not only was she ballin, but she was cool, too.

Surf ninjas. It was the best kind of b movie fever dream.

Hook. I can still quote most of it from memory.

I've lost my marbles!
I've never wanted to eat something more than the imaginary feast.

Several dozen? Rookie numbers.

Yeah. My VCR TV would automatically rewind and start playing again. I have no idea how many times some of those tapes were played but it definitely broke 100.

I mean... Streaming Frozen nearly continuously was 100% a thing just a few years ago.

There is a major difference between desire and necessity.

Milo and Otis, Toys, and The Goonies. Watched those 3 movies a thousand times.

Loved Milo and Otis as a kid. Hell we have a dog named Otis.
Fellow Toys-kid here!
- Yes! My first Michael Gambon movie.

I'll buy that for a dollar.

Mmmm such great memorable lines!
Murphy, it's you.
Can you fly, Bobby?
You're dead...we killed you!
You're move, creep.
Dead or alive, you are coming with me.
Na na na na na na na.... NA NA NA NA NA NA NA (BOOM!)

For me it was Cocktail. I was a latch key kid, and sometimes you just got bored and hunted around your parents shit.

Turns out 11 year old me was REALLY interested in watching a shirtless Tom Cruise throw around bottles of alcohol in a tropical paradise.

Sharkboy and Lavagirl

I really liked Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. My parents got it for me on VHS at some point and I watched it so much it literally wore out the tape. Then my parents got it for me on DVD.

Can't even watch it on streaming because they only ever have the subtitled version, and the dub is vastly superior for the dialogue. The subs cut so much flavor and poetry out of the dialogue that it becomes super boring and just the basic gist of what's going on.

Before that, the "obscure" VHS my parents had that I watched a lot was Monty Python's Holy Grail. We spent years trying to understand what the "witch" says when she is found guilty and only knew for certain what it was years later when they released a special edition DVD and we watched it with the subtitles on. "It's a fair cop."

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is so good. I have to admit that I've only ever watched it with subs though. Maybe I'll try the dub next time.

I liked the VHS tape that had the naked women recorded onto it.

Three Ninjas. We all wanted to be Colt when we played ninjas later

Big Trouble in Little China.

We considered it to be on the same level as Ghostbusters. The ending showed a monster as a stowaway on the old Porkchop Express. We all couldn't wait for the inevitable sequel where Jack Burton got into some Big Trouble somewhere else. Only found out as an adult much later that it was a really unsuccessful movie and there was no way they'd make a sequel.

It's all in the reflexes!

Jay Bauman: "From a financial perspective, John Carpenter's filmography is a series of tragic disasters."
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail."
I can here the music. Hard to say how many times I watched this as a kid. It still holds up!

An American Tale. Watched it a ton in St Vincent, then I moved to America as a child so there was a close feeling to it. (Just to be clear, I was born in Brooklyn, NY, but my family moved out of the states to St Vincent within 2 years. So my earliest memories are not from the US, despite being born here).

It was the sequel for me, fiefel goes west

I haven't watched Ice Age in twenty years but if you put it on the TV I bet I could quote every line from it. My mom loved that movie when we saw it in theater so we got it on DVD, then we must have watched it a hundred times after that. It was her favorite movie by far.

We also watched a good bit of Madagascar when that one came out but Ice Age was the enduring classic.

Ok but the Indian in the cupboard came with a key for the plastic VHS case, and a couple of toys from the movie. So my love was justified.

Worst child actor ever though

my class watched it and the teacher had to get parents permission to watch it because of the "girls girls girls" music video that plays for like 3 seconds

The Peanut Butter Solution

I remember watching that and being too young to understand why the one kid wanted to put the stuff in his pants. Was very confused about that part.
- I'm still confused, who wants pubes that long and that abundant??

Did this with spiderwick and bridge to tarabithia but I wouldn't call these particularly obscue.

Also did this with a movie that I can only describe as space jumanji as well

Zathura: A Space Adventure, great movie 👍🙂
- This is it! Thanks, I might have to rewatch it.
  Edit: holy shit what a cast, wasn't expected that many recognizable names

And for those of us who predate VHS it was books! I was hooked on the Lord of the Rings!

Hey grandpa, What are those? I never heard of a book.😂🤣
- They were very popular in the day!

And nobody would get your references

You can still get that, just follow obscures enough hobbies and reference memes from it.

Something something i use arch google en passant robot girlyman clem

lol/36 for one of mine. Bonus points if you can guess what it is.

Krull

I dunno man, flaming horses are dope

My parents made me a VHS tape with like 9 movies on it and I would watch it constantly. I was a sickly child, so I was stuck in bed a lot. That tape was great.

He hath the legendary E800 VHS tape!
Or, like, an E180 and a VCR with impressive LP modes, maybe?
- Yo I have no idea. I was born in '97. I just knew how to put tapes in and play them

I watched Ghost with Patrick Swayze and Demi Moore so many times at a bit too young.

Also, The Jungle Book starring Sabu. A black and white live action film apparently from 1942.

Labyrinth and The Black Hole.

"The Black Hole" is such an interesting case, I really loved watching it as a kid. Reruns were shown on TV every other year or so when I was little. Once I bought the DVD, I realized just how corny it was... up until the point where Maximilian Schell made his Wagnerian entrance. From then on, it became a very different movie, something I could neither understand nor appreciate as a kid.
Labyrinth and The last unicorn were my favorite movies growing up. Oh! Also a very old russian animated film about a magical hunchback pony.
A yes, Labyrinth staring Jennifer Connelly, Jim Henson's creatures, and David Bowie's magnificent pouch.
The evil droid design of Black Hole and the 1981 Star Wars comic #47 were very similar. I don't know why I'm telling you this.

Tron

It's a shame they never made any sequels.
Ever.
Shut up. No. They didn't.
- uhm, I enjoyed Tron 2...

For me, it was What About Bob?

The old Asterix movies for me. The racism makes them hard to watch now that I'm grown up.

What nomous said. Mostly the depiction of Blacks, Arabs, Asians etc.
I've not watched them since I was a kid, where/in what way were they racist?
- They have some pretty outdated stereotypes/caricatures. Definitely a product of it's time and some parts haven't aged well.

You kids with your fancy, newfangled VHS machines. When I was a kid we had two channels of black and white TV and programming started at three in the afternoon.

Just growing up thinking everybody else has also seen The Ugly Dachshund. A movie where I'm convinced everybody who was in it is now dead.

Dance the magic dance

You remind me of the babe.

Toooomorrow tomorrow I love ya, tomorrow, you're only a day aaaawayyyyy -the song I hate yet is imprinted on me. Thank you younger sibling for that. It was also mom that broke that CD, RIP (Rest in pieces you over played movie)

I worked for United Way for a bit and had to go to places and project their ad short that heavily featured that Annie song. Never saw the movie, hate the song.

Top Secret! dubbed in Galician.

Whoops Dad accidentally recorded over our bootleg copy of land before time with porn :)

For me it's lethal weapon 1, my uncle would play it at family gatherings. He has this sick sound system at the time and you can hear the brass casings hit the ground it's awesome.

Is there any modern equivalent? Do we even have any shared culture anymore or are we all in our own rabbit holes?

TikTok / IG viral posts.
They're not as long lived, but the induct them into conversation.
Skibidi toilet spinoffs are their heritage.
Well the post as I understand it argues the polar opposite. We had rabbit holes completely impenetrable social bubbles. And know everything is mixed and globalised. Probably for the better all in all
It's weird because this was the exception back then, but it might be everything now.
It's not as common but I'd say you still see kids that grow up in a household with satellite for TV so they miss out on most of the streaming references.
Primo Baby is like this currently for me and my girlfriend. Her grandma got her a copy of it when she was a kid, but I found it online and holy shit, it's awful to the point that it's hilarious.

Fern Gully -WAM Sky Dancers -BOOM The Black Cauldron -HAZAA!

Ferngully is a regular player in our house.
- Starring Tim Curry as It Doesn't Matter He's Having Fun.

I'm 19. Those movies are:

"Konferenz der Tier" ("Conference of the animals", some kinda obscure children's movie)
Bambi
Lassie
The wonderful adventures of nils

And later:

Lucky number slevin
Everything from Quentin Tarantino

All of those are in our possession in the form of optical media, as well as a 0% legal digital copy.

For me the more "obscure" ones were The Indian and the Cupboard, Small Soldiers, Jingle All The Way, James and the Giant Peach. Not that I referenced it hard or anything.

The VHS sleeve for Indian and the Cupboard just had the cupboard printed on the opposite side, so child me tried putting his toys into the VHS Clamshell to make his toys come to life.

Finding out other people had the same film unlocked several friendships for me

Country Bears was weird and literally no one talks about it

I occasionally have random pop-up memories of that movie and for a few seconds every time I think "what fever dream was that?!" before remembering

When I was a kid, my parents wouldn't let me stay up late enough to watch Adult Swim, but they would let me set the VCR to record it on a few blank tapes. And that's how I first watched anime that wasn't on Toonami.

Funny that in the UK, Adult Swim never aired animé to my knowledge, and there was very little handover; it just went straight from Ed, Edd and Eddy to Aqua Teen Hunger Force.

we had See Spot Run (23% on rotten tomatoes) but it got taped over by another movie "accidentally" when I was 7 and I haven't seen it since...

having read the plot on Wikipedia, it features a lot more references to testicles than I remember

I've never heard of this movie but based on your comment I'm guessing it's about checking yourself for testicular cancer?
- it's about a drug sniffer dog who bites off the balls of a mafia boss, runs away from witness protection, and gets adopted by a mailman.
  It's definitely a stupid antics movie: at one point, a woman gets farted on by a zebra whilst holding a lit match

Demolition Man for some fucking reason, also Running Man. I dont even know, also my grandmother gets the two mixed up and mishmashed in her head. We still make weird taco bell references.

3 shells. Messed with me to this day.
Still waiting for the michelin star taco bell experience
I don't think either of those are obscure.

The Boy Who Could Fly.

We were also defined by Sunday spaghetti westerns, and Kung Fu Theater. We thought all bad guys were uglier than the good guys, and every problem could be solved by shooting or kicking someone.

Dudes(1987). Features Jon Cryer and B the Flea!

For me it was some train movie made with model trains with a conductor that went "oh no" and a movie about talking real life construction equipment when I was young.

Then when I was a bit older, we watched Galavants and Willy the Sparrow.

I wonder if anyone else on the fediverse has even heard of these 😅

Gallavants legit feels like a propaganda film about NOT following your dreams and that the nail that sticks out gets the hammer.
My grandma tried to gaslight me into thinking it was my favorite movie as a kid, but I always hated it.
Yep we had those train movies too! Kinda feels like a fever dream now.
They were called "I Love Toy Trains"
https://youtu.be/D4T5RcGmmIg

The thief and the cobbler!

My friend Garrett Gilchrist has spent years restoring it, doing cut after cut, trying to get it as good as he can. He's not being paid, it's a labor of love.
I believe his most recent was Mark 5 from last year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC4sYmilGF8
Have no fear, have no fear! ZigZig the Grand Visir is here!
That whole movie is an utter fever dream spectacular.

scamper the penguin

This unlocked a memory for me.

Puff the Magic Dragon

It's like a fever dream, but we definitely had it on VHS

I have a distinct memory of a 3rd grade project where we made posters about ourselves. My favorite TV show was Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.

The reaction was something like “that’s not really a TV show but we’ll allow it.” I certainly watched it on our TV, probably with a VHS recording of it being on broadcast TV.

Now we're in the List of things we "own" on Amazon prime and watch over and over era

Jawbreaker and the brave little toaster

Brave Little Toaster was a staple. Wonder if it has anything to do with my constant desire to repair anything I can instead of throwing it away...
- I'm the same way and I've wondered the same thing. Just sucks that most things aren't really repairable these days.
Everyone I've ever known close to my age who was shown that movie at least one time as a kid said that it gave them nightmares, and I have to agree with them. It's a pretty fucked up movie to show to kids.
- The fact that "which one" is a genuine question is hilarious to me. I just rewatched jawbreaker and I can't believe I was allowed to watch that as a kid.
  People say brave little toaster has some scary scenes like toaster's clown/water/bathtub/fork nightmare but I honestly don't get that sentiment myself and it's still one of my all time faves. I still watch it periodically. But I was also a courage the cowardly dog (and jawbreaker ofc) enjoyer. so.

The Swan Princess. It haunts me.

I believe it's also partially responsible for my young and lifelong rebellion against someone complimenting my appearance. Fine. You find me nice to look at. That's a hill a beans. What else.

they forgot to add "..and is now embedded to your core being."

My dad was a film historian. My entire childhood was filled with movies none of my contemporaries had seen.

My dad wasn't a historian, but he loved old movies and made a point to introduce us to the classics. I've seen so many black and white films that I hardly get to talk about with anyone.
Watching older media is what got me into Star Trek though. TOS specifically, and then TNG much later.
- Me too. I grew up on Fred Astaire, Buster Keaton and Eddie Cantor.
  I used to have a party trick back in the pre-IMDB days where I'd bring out Leonard Maltin's movie guide, have someone flip to a random page, start reading titles, and I'd stop them before they could get to the end by describing the plot of whichever one I'd seen.
  My earliest memory is my parents projecting 2001: A Space Odyssey on our living room wall using a 16mm projector with a Cinemascope lens for a bunch of grad students.
  He also had a reel-to-reel recorder that came specifically with one type of Sony Trinitron TV that predated VHS. Of course, once VHS came out, he taped everything. We had all the movie channels.
  But my brother was the Star Trek person. My dad was pretty so-so about it.

I had many such movies. The most obscure among them probably being "The child who wanted to be a Bear", a Franco-Danish animation film which doesn't even have a Wikipedia page in English. (It was already DVD and not tape tho)

Ill go ye one better. When i was a kid there was a movie theater in ft worth tx called Isis. They had 1 dollar matinees that us kids were allowed to sit in. Got watch s lot of blacksploitation flicks and really odd "c" grade scifi.

"Blacksploitation"? In... Texas. Do I want to know? i don't really want that in my search history...
- It's a term for the type of comedy movies in the 70s where they would cast all black actors in these low budget films with cheesy dialogue and visuals. Most jokes heavily relied on stereotypes (e.g. lots of characters speaking "jive") and were aimed at black audiences.
  Think "Blacula" instead of "Dracula"
  Most people consider them racist now for perpetuating stereotypes, although some point out that they were beloved by black audiences at the time and offered work to a lot of black actors who weren't finding it otherwise.
  It's a weird piece of US cinema history...

Bee Movie Ghost Dad The Wizard Secret of NIMH 2 The Ernest Series

I had weirdly encyclopedic knowledge of old Finnish comedies because my late father was into that stuff.

Also: Not an obscure film, but to me, the definitive version of Terminator 2 was the one I recorded off TV. I have it on Blu-Ray, but it's just not the same.

Most times that I've watched Terminator 2 were when I happened to catch it playing on TV. It just doesn't feel right without breaks and tacky commercials.

Was lucky enough to get a VHS copy of Lupin the Third and the Castle of Cagliostro when I was like 7 or 8. Man I must have watched that tape over 100 times easily.

The buttercream gang.

Reminds me of "The Apple Dumpling Gang." Can we be friends?

Zoobilee fucking Zoo...

I am not from anywhere near North America.

If you grew up mormon, you knew the buttercreamer gang. Also, The peanutbutter solution.

edit to add another obscure movie.

I’m sorry what
- The Buttercreamer’s Gang, clearly a very obscure movie. Two of them, Actually.
Was not mormon, but i remember the buttercream gang

Oh ho, and yet I, a parent, can still put my thumb on the streaming scale. My daughter right now is watching old Nick Jr. Cartoons, playing Mario 64 (as well as a 2yo anyway), and the untitled goose game.

She also watched old seasons of Curb Your Enthusiasm with me since I had it running, though I probably don't want her to adopt Larry David vibes...

Goose game is a hit with mine as well. I haven't introduced 3d games yet, but Super Mario World and Donkey Kong Country seem to be favorites right now.
- I thought about 2D vs 3D, and it just seemed 3D made more sense for her. Granted she mostly just runs Mario to butterflies and then let's him nap. She's not really goal oriented yet.
  As for goose... She sees it, then she runs around the house honking and flapping her wings. This is how you raise a hell raiser lol

If anything, we have more access to obscure content. We have obscure movies we've found streaming and watch repeatedly. We love Trolljegeren and Interstate 60.

We also still have some weirdo discs too like the live action Mario movie.

The 90s Mario movie is fun, and I'll die on that hill.
- The 90s Mario was weird and fun and the 20s Mario was generic and lame.
- I didn't have that one, but I did somehow have an episode of the Super Mario Bros Super Show on VHS. Just one episode though. No fuckin' idea where it could possibly have come from. But my only other two tapes were Lady and the Tramp, and The Aristocats so 5-7 year old me watched a lot of the Bros. After a while there was a whole several minutes near the middle that was just static and gibberish because the tape was damaged, from a combination of overuse and being handled by a five year old.
- Well, it's not hurting anyone, so your opinion is fine.

Rupert and the Frog Song. Three terrifying stories. It was a Thursday night... I was working late...

I'll join in on the obscure movies that defined my childhood and teen years...

Texas Across the River, Warriors of the Wind (horrible cut and dub of Nauiscaa of the Valley of the Wind), Sea Prince and Fire Child (we rented the tape so much that eventually they sold it to us because we were also the last ones to rent it), Anime version of The Little Mermaid, animated Hobbit and Return of the King, Fairies, Mio and the Land of Far Away

... That's all of the obscure ones I can think of at the moment.

Nice profile picture

Most of my standups are just people referencing 90s movies.

I feel bad for the other generations

A year in Provence, 4 tape box set.

My sexual awakening was "bon jour, I am Raul the Pool Boy"

For movies, it was Condor Man for me. TV it was Silver Hawks.

I watched shrek many times

Not Quite Human

The Monster Squad was the best. Found it in the $5 bin later, and its still rad!