flouride

Toxicologist here. I think that take is dishonest or dumb.

Taking a lethal dose is almost never the concern with any substance in our drinking water.

Hormones, heavy metals, persistent organic chemicals, ammonia are all in our drinking water. But for all of them we can't drink enough water to die from a high dose.

Some of them still have a large effect on our bodies.

It's about the longterm effects. Which we need longterm studies to learn about. That makes them harder to study.

Still doesn't mean flouride does anything bad longerm. But the argument is bad.

dihydrogen monoxide is also dangerous, we must ban it as well

Oh yeah? And what if someone ignores that, simply lies and says it's toxic? I'm convinced!

This is a conspiracy by fluoridians.

Yeah but I read an article on a bullshit website. I think some no name website knows more than a toxicologist

For what’s it worth, in my country (Netherlands), we don’t add fluoride to our tap water anymore since the early 70s. We just have it in our toothpaste (though you can also get fluoride free toothpaste for those who don’t want it).

Sure there’s still traces of fluoride in our water, as it appears in nature. But it’s not artificially added by our water companies.

The fluoride added to water gets it up to 0.7mg/liter.

That ends up to be 2 or 3 drops in a 55 gallon drums worth of water. Not much.

Fluoride is a natural substance and is found in many areas drinking water already. Many areas in much higher concentrations than 0.7mg/liter, so realistically people all over the world have drank fluoridated water for thousands of years.

You have to well over double the 0.7 before any health issues may appear and the first to appear is at about triple the concentration in kids under 8 years old who drink it for years getting spots on their teeth. The spots are only superficial.

Going into concentrations even higher than that CAN cause health issues when drank for longer periods of time. All of those cases being from naturally occurring fluoride, which actually effects somewhere north of 20% of the world's population.

Which makes the argument that fluoride in our water keeps us passive as being extra stupid, since water sourced around Columbia (the country) is far higher than .07mg/liter and Columbia seems to be caught in violence and turmoil and instability quite a bit over the decades.

*edit: Colombia

So, once again, DHMO is the chemical we need to fear.

The people who need to hear this sadly would not believe that too much water can kill you even if you showed them someone die from it, I fear. I'd also be shocked if they read "water poisoning" and didn't think of poisoned water.

Back when I was in college, people didn't like fluoride because it calcifies the pinneal gland. I assume that rhetoric has only been further exaggerated over the years

It's not about toxicity, it's about mind control! Fluoride makes you passive. But you know this since you're a tool of the government pushing poison.

Just bleach your teeth like normal people! You know, with the bleach under the kitchen sink.

(Don't actually do this)

I believe the objection to fluoride is that it is a tranquilizer that keeps us from achieving glory through violent uprising... or sweet sweet dentist profits.

i know this guy has a fancy degree and everything, but is he really as reliable a source as rfk junior? you don’t need fluoride when you have an army of worms ready to eat any kinds of bacteria that may enter your system.

Agreed but can we turn down the chloramine valve? It tastes awful.

I feel like I woke up in the movie Dr. Strangelove

Not to mention there are many natural sources of fluoride which can contain greater concentrations of it than what is in tap water. The ocean has a concentration of fluoride that is in the range of 1.2 to 1.4 ppm, compared to the standard rate of fluoride of drinking water, which is 0.5–1 ppm

edit: I didn't say that people drink ocean water, my point was about the ubiquitous nature of fluoride. The majority of life lives in the ocean, so if fluoride really was as toxic as some people say it is, there would be a lot less life on Earth. There are many lakes and other water sources that people have been drinking from for ages which naturally contain higher amounts of fluoride than what is in fluoridated tap water.

Great post... but where is the meme?

The question to me is - do we even have to fluoridate water and is this really the best approach?

For example, most European countries do not commonly use fluoride in their water supply, and everyone's just fine! No extra cavities, no special health risks. People commonly drink tap water and do not care about potential for any adverse effects, because it's just that - clean water. And for any teeth-related issues, you already have your toothpaste providing more than enough fluorine.

If they remove it from the water, then change the availability to be OTC for multivitamins with fluoride. I want to be able to get it with our having a copay and whatever else the Dr wants to charge .

Toxicologist, toxicity, minuscule, fluoridated -- your big doctor words are just trying to trick us!

How much oatmeal would I have to eat to die of fluoride poisoning?

I want someone who knows about these things to respond to this 2012 metastudy that ties naturally fluoridated groundwater to neurological problems. I have used this the past decade to say “well the science is unclear;” I found it back then (2013 at the latest) when I was trying to disprove a crank and really questioned my shit. There was a(n unrelated?) follow up later that questioned the benefits. Since this is very far from my area of expertise, I’m not championing these; I just want to understand why they’re wrong or at least don’t matter in the discourse.

(Edit: for the educated, there could be a million ways these are wrong. Authors are idiots, study isn’t reproducible, industry capture, conclusions not backed up by data, whatever. I just don’t have the requisite knowledge to say these are wrong and therefore fluoridated water is both safe and useful)

Update: great newer studies in responses! You can have a rational convo starting with these two that moves to newer stuff.

Depending on where you live, there is already enough naturally occurring fluoride in the well water that adding more doesn't mean much. How else do you think they discovered fluoride helps your teeth?

Since I live in a rural area and need to have my own well, I know my water contains enough fluoride that it would be silly to add more. But some areas do not have enough naturally present. So it would be interesting to see the water test results for Florida cities to check the amount of naturally occurring fluoride present. YMMV

I had the misfortune of eavesdropping on a conversation recently where some guy who was working in a bourgeoisie brewing facility recently switched jobs to work at a waste water treatment center and he was advocating for removing fluoride from water with a level of rationale that I have to assume he picked up from co-workers parroting information they heard on the Joe Rogan podcast.

Next headline will be how fluoride contributes to autism and it will have just as much evidence as the vaccine bit does. How is this even a thing? Is ground zero on this RFK?

Meanwhile, all the people who can’t afford dentists will have even worse teeth going forward. Make America’s teeth British again.

but what about my precious bodily fluids?!?

But what about our precious bodily fluids?

Lemminologist here:

the fluoride levels vary because that’s how numbers do in reality

the people that need to hear this will never believe you.

My thing is this...

1. Adding it requires effort
2. Removing it, if possible, requires effort
3. It's not a requirement
4. There are other alternative methods to get it, like toothpaste, or sumpliments, that don't force your neighbors to have your fluoride.

The question is: does it make sense to buy toothpaste with fluoride then or can I buy one without? Just because my kids don't like the peppermint ones and other flavours are most of the times without fluoride

fluoridation has nothing to with any teeth-related issues, it was all about the US industry having a way to dispose of fluoride, a byproduct of many industrial activities. You can't just dump fluoride on a river as it has several adverse side-effects, but it you can convince everyone it is good for their health then it's okay to dump it on the water supply.

Used to be a thing about it turning your teeth green

Fluoridated water doesn't seem to make a difference on cavities. It does have neurological effects. It's simply not acutely fatal. It's already in our toothpaste. We don't need it in our municipal water supply and the majority of developed countries don't.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine/magazine_article/fluoridated-drinking-water/

Now say something that bros can really understand, like "fluoride affects zinc and magnesium absorption". Just don't tell them how it interacts

So miniscule it won't poison you but just enough to prevent tooth decay. You really can't have it both ways. Pretending there is any real control over measurement is also ridiculous. Not to mention there is no need to drink fluoride.

You know what does work? Using fluoride topically and getting good dental care.

I never met the fellow. I never did the science either.

You all are easily impressed.

This post written by Big Fluoride.

Nah trust me bro.

Toxicity is a big word. What about small long term effects?

Lithium is prohibited in eu outside of psychiatric therapy, too. But it might be an essential nutrient (small doses).

My trust into the official narrative science is limited.

Edit: as the tobacco interest group has proven studies and scientific evidence can be bought. Don’t know why y’all are reacting so allergic

The question about this is that the same can be said about lead. Do we want to consume that?

Toxicology isn't a real profession. These people are run by big toxicity. For real water advice you want a homeopath.

Before even wondering about the health effects, we should ask ourselves whether it actually achieves the desired goal. I doubt that.

If it doesn't, we don't even need to wonder about safety; we'll just stop burning money.

Permanently Deleted

It could likely be replaced with hydroxyapatite instead (it also can be used to remove lead and other things from water, which makes searching about being added to municipal water difficult). Good for not only teeth, also bones.

I also wonder if adding other vitamins would make more sense (just enough to stop deficiencies) if we're talking about health outcomes, though the first idea I had with vitamin C came up with results of that messing with the chlorine in the water.

throws Coors light

"That's just what they want you to think!"

Come up with a rebuttal to this that an ignorant right-winger would believe.

I am still concerned about fluoride, but for different reasons. The federal government says there is too much natural fluoride in our water so we must import water to dilute it. The federal government doesn't trust us with police officers, or politicians, but surely the public water company isn't corrupt or incompetent....surely.

But hey, our teeth are really white and no ones died from flouride, far more likely to die from sudden lead.

Okay fluoride gang (of which I may be a member)…

A study about the affects of fluoride in municipal water on plants: MSU study