Public trust
Public trust
232 comments
-
-
You're assuming these people believe we even send things to space. I had a serious ass conversation recently with my father's roommate. Typical conspiracy theorist ding dong. Full on flat earther and everything. I asked him how he thinks GPS works if the earth was flat. He admitted he didn't know but then when I started to explain how it works by pinging satellites we put up in space he cut me off and said space isn't real. Like legitimately thinks space isn't real. He on a separate occasion also complained that we didn't need to wear masks during covid because we apparently make our own viruses in our bodies and viruses don't spread between people.
These people don't even understand how logic works. Let alone that people could be smarter than they are.
-
Well, if you reject all knowledge you cannot obtain through direct observation, you can kinda start to understand how they ended up where they are.
They're intimidated by the scientific method.
-
Many of them are religious and believe plenty of things they didn't directly observe. It's more that they have been trained through religious thinking that if someone confidently claims something it must be more true than someone who honestly admits that "it is the best we can know right now and we will update our understanding as we obtain more evidence." These people need the answer now and that answer can't change because changing your opinion based on new evidence is seen as weakness and opinions should be handed down from on high and never change.
-
-
There's always been crazy and stupid people. And then we gave them the internet to connect and to have a voice. Now they feed of each other's crazynies and believe they run the world.
Only way to fight this is education. Give people the ability to see through crazy. You're not born with common sense. It's taught and learned.
-
Not a solution but it is fun to put a flat-earther with a hollow-earther and say Earth is a ball. Then you grab some popcorn.
-
-
We should just start jettisoning these people into space
-
Tbh, it's really your fault for choosing to interact with this person more than once.
-
yeah, god forbid you try to break down the echo chamber existing between parties for the benefit of public good.
Fuck you, be a good robot for the party and STICK ONLY WITH THE PEOPLE I DEMAND YOU TO STAY WITH.
-
-
-
I just want affordable healthcare
-
Unfortunately, the answer to that doesn't lie in science but in politics.
-
But I took a course in college Called political Science. So what about that mister science man?
-
-
Ask the military industrial complex. Too much good applicable science and tech comes from space exploration.
-
Not really.
The NASA budget has been slashed for decades on a row and is currently a tiny amount compared to what it was before. That they still manage to do what they do is half a miracle in on itself.
It's so bad that a 3 percent of the military budget given to NASA would double it's budget instantly.
With that in mind, I would put this on the military industrial complex
-
-
Socializing your health care might destroy you guys, since there's so many fatties, smokers, guns and people who ignore doctors. Sounds expensive.
-
Except that it is a proven fact that public health care costs less per capita than private, so actually it sounds less expensive. The people lobbying to keep it private are the only ones who stand to lose and their brainwashed army of sycophants can't understand anything beyond the points they've been trained to parrot.
-
I blame the obesity epidemic on the weak ass FDA and nutrition labeling. A 'serving' is whatever the hell they feel like making it - I've seen 1/3 of a cookie, a single tick tack (rounded down to 0g sugar), and every other arbitrary amount so actually comparing products takes so much time that most dont bother. Combine this with the fact that 90% of restaurants dont even bother giving you any information at all so you have to cook or go to specific big chains to actually track calories. Also it's a safe assumption that everything at a restaurant is packed full of carbs, cheese, and oils for max calorie density.
-
Smokers?! Have you ever been to France? It’s like a trip back in time to 80s America, with a smoker on every street corner and an ash tray on every cafe patio table.
-
-
-
But surely you must understand how someone, having failed all of their classes and then dropped out of school altogether, understands complex matters better than the people who are brilliant, have international acclaim, and devoted like 5 decades of their lives to study that same thing?
Or you know, at least watched this 11-minute video?
And if you do, can you explain it to me? :-P So far all I have is "Might Makes Right", but somehow that seems to be lacking something...
-
They failed because they’re obviously smarter than science and not the other way around.
-
Also, are we not going to discuss the conspiracy theory that many of the people espousing this ideology were mysteriously killed!? And their families too! In fact, anyone even so much as near them had a chance to be affected, possibly some still here but with permanent brain damage!
Sounds pretty sus if you ask me...
-
-
The oligarchs have not decided that Mars can be made into a culture war issue.... yet.
-
They are on their way with how Musk and the other Silicon Valley idiots are going
-
-
🤓
-
-
People act like their mamas never told 'em to cover their damned mouths when they cough or sneeze. It's the same damned thing, only masks work much better at keeping your filthy germs from infecting other people.
Common sense ain't common, they say, and this anti-mask nonsense is just proof that it's true.
-
But don't you know? Having symptoms like "drier mouth," "fogged glasses," and "smelling your own breath" are much more dangerous than a virus that killed a million Americans at least.
What it really tells me it that the mouth breathers are crazier than we gave them credit for.
-
People act like their mamas never told 'em to cover their damned mouths when they cough or sneeze
Nor to wash their hands before eating (or even after going to the toilet.)
-
I tried explaining universal precautions to a pastor of a church I was attending, and pointed out that there is a Christian commandment to love one's neighbor that overrides one's personal desires. He could not dispute my points, but he also didn't do anything to implement safety procedures.
Guess who left the church after the unsurprising COVID outbreak?
I realize a lot of people here aren't believers, but my point is that even within the context of religion or common wisdom, masks make sense.
There's been a lot of talk lately about how decades of lead in gasoline, pipes, and in other places likely damaged generations of people's ability to reason. I'm sincerely beginning to think this is a bigger problem than we'll ever truly know.
-
Or lick their hands when handling money
-
You learn that most people are disgusting the first time you use a crowded public bathroom.
-
-
-
I mean a lot of them also don't believe we landed unmanned units on mars, or humans on the moon, for that matter, so...
-
It's funny, I've heard plenty of morons talk about flat earth, but I've never seen anyone say anything about Mars.
-
Mars is obviously a star, since it is in the sky and glows.
-
Some of those dumb fucks think that it's just Earth that's flat, but other planets are round – probably because it's so bleeding obvious they are when you look at them through a telescope. Somehow that logic doesn't apply to the Earth though
-
-
-
-
I am reasonably sure that a fair many conservatives feel that they are entitled to their biases and fallacies and the world must bend to these biases.
-
It's deeper than that, they literally believe they can change objective reality by believing hard enough.
That's why they excuse all of their bad acts, if they ignore it, it doesn't exist to them.
Negative object permanence.
-
I think you are right. I believe it is somehow related their obsessive belief in their religion.
I am not saying that all religious people are bad. But, somehow, these people excuse their bad behaviour by quoting scriptures. There has to a correlation too.
-
Too bad they can't make tulpas with that power
-
-
Behold: what religion does to a person's mind.
-
-
So they just deny space exploration. Easy.
-
While using a smartphone with nano chips and GPS, based on satellites and Einstein's General Relativity.
-
Flat earthers and moon landing deniers have entered the chat...
-
I recently had some guy rattle off 10 stupid reasons why we never landed on the moon in a row. I have never heard a more clear example of the fallacy of verbosity. One of them was "We didn't have automatic windshield wipers for cars in the 60's so there is no way we had the technology to go to the moon. "
I swear to god his reasons were that stupid and he had a ton of them.
-
That sounds like some pure uncut Dunning-Kruger there!
-
The Saturn V moon rocket first flew in 1967, first carried a crew in 1968 and flew the first moon landing in 1969.
Bernard Sadow patented the first suitcase with wheels in 1972.
-
-
Fossils, also fake
-
-
Step on Mars but not on snek.
-
Poindexter... not hard slang to get correct. Dumbasses.
-
Fuck off Pondexter
-
Giga 🤓
-
-
The reality is that you can easily get infected through a mask, but the viral load is much lower
Also if all the people around you are wearing masks in addition to yourself, then it's way way lower
-
as the meme states actually, the point of masks isn't really to protect yourself, that's a marginal side benefit, the point is to protect everyone else from your pestilence ridden breath of death.
watching videos that show how particulate from your breath spreads with and without just literally anything in front of your mouth is disgusting, unblocked your breath carries spittle several METERS in front of you, like the world's most disgusting sprinkler put sideways.
-
I tried explaining this to a friend who was convinced masks do nothing. He would say stuff like "if it can still get through then what's the point". He claimed only people at risk should wear them.
-
you should make him eat poop
since he consumes a non-zero amount of fecal bacteria just like everyone else
not eating poop does nothing -
if you can still die while wearing a seatbelt what's the point
-
-
For some reason anti-maskers think that getting shot once and getting shot 276,000,000 times are equally bad
-
Aha, but if every bullet is a killer bullet then it is exactly the same.
Checkmate atheists.
-
-
-
What is the thesis of this meme, that people are just stupid and there is no underlying problem or system that can be improved?
Science is often communicated to the public via either companies, politics, or the media. Which al have their own interests and issues in representing “scientific facts”. To give some examples of the “science” people have been exposed to: These new pain killers are perfectly save and absolutely not addictive. Making health care accessible is actually bad for the economy and will be more expensive in the end. Or the numerous articles on outlier papers published in the media that conclude that it’s actually healthy to [insert obviously unhealthy habit here (sponsored by some industry group)].
Science has a communication problem, and the communication conduits have a huge credibility problem. The results of which made an already bad pandemic even worse.
-
Holy shit, a reasonable comment that doesn't just assume the other half of the country are idiots.
People don't know what to believe and are skeptical for good reason (some historical, some present). Time and time again we've seen our institutions fails us. We see blatant corruption that the elites don't even bother to hide (e.g. corporate capture). And we see freedoms eroded in times of crisis (e.g. Patriot Act). I'm not saying we should be conspiratorial about doctors or science. But reasonable people on both sides of the aisle see what's happening to our institutions and this has knock on effects.
-
The thesis is that you should listen to experts when you don't know what you're talking about. No one is saying experts are never wrong, but they're more likely to be right than just some guy. There's a whole lot of 'just some guys' who claim to appreciate science until it tells them something they don't want to hear. That's what the meme is against.
-
Okay, what about when there is a lack of consensus? When you have scientists who, for example, argue that the virus came from the Wuhan lab whereas the narrative being told is that that's crazy. This is the problem I have with people in this thread assuming that everyone who isn't immediately on board is dumb, delusional, conspiratorial, etc. We're not talking about flat Earth theory here; it's not that simple.
-
-
Science is often communicated to the public via either companies, politics, or the media. Which al have their own interests and issues in representing “scientific facts”.
Science is communicated using whatever means has an audience.
Science is also communicated much more precisely and accurately in scientific journals, but those generally aren't easily accessible to the wider public.
Do you have a suggestion to how we might solve those 2 overlapping problems?
-
-
Lot of over lap with anti-maskers and young earth flat earthers.
-
-
Well it doesnt help that studies post covid restrictions found many of said restrictions where ineffective. Masks tho we have good evidance they work at least.
-
Masks are more effective in protecting others if you are sick, rather than protecting yourself if others are sick. We should have the attitude that protecting others is good.
-
We should have the attitude that protecting others is good.
This flies in the face of North American “exceptional/radical individualism”.
Asian societies are largely collective. You do what you can to serve others, putting the needs of the community ahead of your own, and this leads to tighter-knit, stronger, and more resilient communities.
North American society is based on “muh rights” individualism, where the person is most important, and society needs to serve their needs, and not the other way around. This leads to weak, ephemeral, almost non-existent communities that are there only in name, or by a fluke of geography that makes completely random people cluster together without ever making serious or deep social connections.
Of the two, the former might end up being stifling to creatives and neuroatypicals, but the latter cannot survive any significant challenge without a significantly negative impact on the “community”.
-
They still do reduce transmission to yourself but yeah, the big win is in not spreading it yourself.
-
Masks are more effective in protecting others if you are sick, rather than protecting yourself if others are sick.
This was 100% not the messaging that was told to the public in the beginning.
-
-
As always, it's better to recommend more strict restrictions when you don't know if they're effective and there's an impact on public health. Hindsight is 20/20
-
I don't know about other countries, but the on and off lockdowns in some countries proved to be ineffective. Many experts said it's better to do lockdown in one go than it being staggered and having different levels of restrictions. But on the one hand, the totalitarian zero-COVID restriction like had happened in China is just as ineffictive.
-
If you're going to lock the country down then you need to support small businesses too. Imagine spending long nights building a business only to see it disappear under COVID restrictions. And then you learn that the restrictions weren't necessary.
-
-
-
Ship no go. Can you make it go?
-
Well you have to let the virus out if you want to get rid of it. Why do you think there's that saying about having to pass a cold along?
-
Big Cold is just a dolled-up ponzi scheme, I tells ya
-
-
Fauci is to blame. The path of evil is paved in good intention.
The fucker told everyone that they didn't need masks.
What he was intending to do was make sure doctors and emergency personnel had masks. instead, it became an inflection point of publicly dividing the nation.
-
Let’s be real, the misinfosphere would’ve have found something else to misguide the morons. He didn’t even say “you don’t need masks”, he said “don’t buy all the masks, stay inside”
-
I think the much deeper reason is, that stupid people can't fathom that knowledge can change. They can't understand that scientists legitimately didn't know better, despite their best efforts. They can't accept, that scientists come to other conclusions based on new data, instead they assume some ulterior motive.
-
It's such a bad idea to prioritize medical personnel having masks. There's no way they would become high-risk vectors with the multitude of sick people they handle daily. /s
-
Yes, but the point is, a government official GASLIT THE PUBLIC, which gave a HUGE validation boost to the conspiracy nuts.
He directly aided morons in spreading their moronery, which is the exact opposite purpose of his entire fucking job. IMO he was criminally neglegent.
-
-
Reluctance against masks was not unique to the USA
-
This is also misinformation. Fauci, et al, were going based on the current NIH guidance at the time, taken from the original SARS virus, which was that improper mask use was potentially more dangerous due to the risk of cross contamination. In this case there was actually strong evidence that a significant number of cases in healthcare settings were coming from contaminated PPE.
At the time, it was thought that it was primarily surface contact which spread the virus, or at least that this was a major source of spread. Now imagine that your average idiot with one improperly fitted mask was told to use masks. They would touch contamination surfaces, touch their mask, and then bring that mask into their car and their house, contaminating those surfaces as well. Given what we knew at the time, this was considered a very serious risk.
Once we understood that airborne spread was a bigger threat, they updated the science. If they are guilty of anything, it was failing to properly explain the nuance of the above reasoning, though in their defense, there was a giant orange idiot taking up most of the oxygen in the room.
-
Fauci is a human being who gave advice, then changed his mind when more information became available. He did not invent the virus.
-
Exactly. The surgeon general tweeted out, "STOP WEARING MASKS" and CNN was publishing articles with all the anti-masker claims, including that they don't work and could increase your risk of getting it instead, and people just pretend like it never happened and the anti-maskers came out of thin air.
It wasn't just an idiotic ploy to deliberately spread misinfo to trick people into leaving masks for doctors, it was also about the government trying to cover their own ass for having sold off their emergency stockpiles for fast cash.
-
The worst part is it was very clearly worded. People had to purposely, disingenuously misinterpret it. So of course they did.
-
Do you recall the people hoarding and trying to profit off of toilet paper, alcohol sanitizer, Clorox wipes? 
-
Well, then there was the intent to let it run its course, as it was only hitting blue states at that time… it was a bit of a cluster…
-
-
white hoods covering the whole head are ruined too
-
It probably didn't help that at the beginning they said the cloth didn't help, then changed the messaging later on.
-
IIRC, that initial “don’t use surgical masks” statement was because hospitals were already facing shortages, and a rush on the supply would have caused massive widespread longstanding shortages. Basically, the hospitals needed disposable masks, so the CDC told people not to use disposable masks.
But it was also in that brief time period between surgical masks and reusable cloth masks. So the messaging was basically just “don’t use
disposablemasks” because the “disposable” part was implied because it’s all that was commonly available on the market. Plus cloth masks hadn’t been studied yet. So when cloth masks were proven to work and the CDC started recommending them, the naysayers fell back to that initial messaging from when the cloth masks were unavailable and unproven.-
-
that initial “don’t use surgical masks” statement was because hospitals were already facing shortages, and a rush on the supply would have caused massive widespread longstanding shortages. Basically, the hospitals needed disposable masks, so the CDC told people not to use disposable masks.
That makes it worse that they said/implied masks won't protect you, not better. If CDC public health statements are driven by an intention to manipulate public behavior rather than disseminating the best available info about what is true, that means that those statements are unreliable and can't be trusted, regardless of the good they are hoping to do by trading their long term credibility for temporarily adjusting purchasing habits.
-
Just because there was an explanation doesn't magically make it acceptable to lie out your ass and give a HUGE boost to conspiracy nuts while one fucking helms the white house...
-
-
The messaging could have been clearer but I'll spell it out for the dumb.
Phase 1:
Don't panic buy medical supplies expecting them to protect you. We don't have enough, and frontline healthcare workers need them to protect themselves and others, you don't know how to wear them and they probably don't fit you properly.
Phase 2:
We still don't really have enough medical grade masks but just fyi: any sort of mouth covering will reduce the risk of a contagious person sneezing into the mouth of a vulnerable person. If you have to go out, please wear something over your face. Cotton is better than nothing.
Phase 3:
A tight fitting mask really is best, it limits a contagious person's generation of aerosolized clouds of viruses, and limits a vulnerable person's exposure to clouds of aerosolized viruses.
-
The problem with messages 1 and 2 is that too many people will not give a shit about other people, and will also assume they can put a mask on correctly. If your goal is to prevent panic buying and hoarding long enough to build an adequate stockpile for medical workers, you probably want to avoid anything that makes those supplies sound superior and valuable.
If I were crafting such a message, I'd say something like this:
"At this time we aren't recommending the use of disposable masks by the general public. For now, those who will be wearing a mask should wear one that's made of tight knit, layered cloth, with a fit that fully encloses the nose and mouth. Cloth masks can be cleaned and reused, and will be easier for most people to wear properly, especially when worn for extended periods of time.
These guidelines reflect our current understanding and will be updated as we learn more."
-
-
The way I recall it seeing thing unfold and not really following the political stuff at the time:
CDC said that cloth masks don't stop viruses. You need a medical mask for that, but please don't use those because hospitals need them. That was all true.
In other countries, notably South Korea, almost everyone wore masks, and the numbers showed their effectiveness.
So CDC realized that indeed, if everyone wears one, it greatly reduces transmission of the virus. It doesn't have to be perfect to be efficient.
-
-
-
-
Sheeple stop wearing masks and social distancing because they believe it doesn't work. Sheeple get sick. Sheeple: "See! I told you!"
-
You know the important thing was to slow the spread right? So that not everyone has it at the same time completely overcrowding hospitals. Which still happened in some areas due to idiots
-
I think it would have been healthier for society to get it over with asap. We are still dealing with the fallout of shutting half of society down.
-
-
And yet social distancing was "obvious" because scientists said it u til they admitted they pretty much just made that distance up.
That's why there's an Appeal from Authority fallacy... But you just keep on trusting what ever they say with out questioning it.
-
You do realize that social distancing does have a body of work around it and was used to mitigate the 1918 pandemic...
-
-
They "made up" the arbitrary distance of 6 feet, not the entire concept of distance making it harder for germs to spread... What the hell failure of logic is that?! Some viruses can stay potent in air much better than others and they weren't CONFIDANT that 6 feet would be adequate or overkill. It was an educated guess for COVID specifically, not an ass pulling.
-
So you don't think masks work?
-
Did I say that? Because I didn't, but if you want to put words in my mouth you're more than welcome to have a conversation with yourself at that rate.
-
-
99% of medicine is throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.
Social distancing was an easy way to make it less likely to spread based on similar viruses. Until they had more verifiable ways it was a quick and cheap answer to a complex problem. Sometimes those are necessary, especially when millions of lives are on the line.
-
99% of medicine is throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.
Social distancing was an easy way to make it less likely to spread
I'm just going to keep copy and pasting in this thread: This was not communicated to the public in the beginning. Recommendations were stated definitively (i.e., without the qualification that we don't really know what to do yet) and then latter revised. This erodes public trust.
-
No, no that is not medicine.
Go take a biochem class and educate yourself on how fucking stupid that comment sounded. You're basically saying modern chemisty is equivalent to ancient alchemy, which ... is hilariously moronic.
-
-
-
-
Are we really still pretending the mask I got from the front bin of Home Depot actually works?
Can we look at the other claims the government "scientists" claimed to see how they were not real scientists?
-
What? Yes? Home Depot sells N95 masks. Protection is why they exist.
Are we really pretending this metal saw blade I got from the front bin of Home Depot actually cuts things? I'm skeptical.
-
Are we really still pretending the mask I got from the front bin of Home Depot actually works?
Are we still pretending <100% effectiveness = worthless? (Just kidding, I know folks are.)
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449
-
The issue here is that people pretended masks were very affective, and I have not seen any actual data that they were very useful. I have seen a lot of memes like the one above that pretend they were essential when the only data I ever recall seeing was they were overall 4% useful, by a pro-mask source. And if you look around there are lots of sources that said they did nothing, I dont know which is true, but lack of solid evidence seems to point to it was pointless.
Do you think masks should have been mandated indoors if they had a 4% impact? How about 0.1%?
-
-
damn i uh. Yup i read that statement.
Ok im going to go jerk off to furry porn or something immensely more productive than what i just spent time doing.
-
The cheap, dumpy masks are still going to somewhat reduce your intake of particles and significantly reduce your output, which is their main point.
-
232 comments
Best interaction with an antimasker:
Them: masks don't work
Me: We'll I'm going to wear one anyway
Them: Well then you're just traping the germs against your face
Me: so you're saying they block germs?
They even stated the correct reason to wear a mask: to trap the germs against my face, so others don't get infected
It's like they don't compute the idea behind it, it stops at me me me
My favorite reply to them is that it's America and I can do whatever I want, I'll call them snowflakes too whenever appropriate. They get pissed when you insinuate they're anti American lul.
Someone once told me that the box in which masks came in says "doesn't protect from viruses", as if it was hidden-in-plain-sight proof that masks don't work.
Yeah, they don't protect the user from viruses, they protect other people. The box is technically correct, Patricia, there is no conspiracy here.
I think they actually do understand but don't have enough empathy with other people to see it as their responsibility to protect other people from their viruses.
Not that someone as perfect as them would ever sick enough to potentially infect others...
Claims are not evaluated, in the loyalist worldview. They're not arguments. They're slogans. You shuffle your cards and say whatever might justify the ingroup being fundamentally superior to the outgroup. Because of course, it is impossible for someone to simply be wrong. That would require evaluating claims. No: truth is dictated by people above you. They must be right and smart and handsome, or they wouldn't be above you. Any challenge, any criticism, any disagreement, is a personal attack. You are calling someone lesser.
And I say "you" because these people think this is all we're doing. They think that's all there is. It's reality as a team sport.
Or, more likely, they're selfish jerks who don't care about anyone else. "The greater good? What's that?"
While it is fun to tweak their titties with this, it will make zero difference on their position because their position wasn't arrived at by rational thought.
Their actual position is that they don't give a fuck about anyone other than themself. Everything they claim to believe is just a rationalization they think will sound good to someone else. All they care about is what they can convince others.
Please stop you’re going to break them! 😂
My favorite interactions was going into Walmart.
It was mid/early spring, right as things were starting to lockdown. I wasn’t wearing a jacket cuz it was glorious out.
Some old boomer lady started harassing me over not wearing a jacket and blah blah blah.
She wouldn’t shut up, and was blocking me from walking in, so I faked a sneeze. The look of horror on her face as she fled.
(And I’m pretty sure that was also the fastest time in and out of a Walmart…)
Why did she have a problem with you not wearing a jacket? What am I missing here?
You are truly evil... and this story was glorious, thanks for sharing it!:-P