Ukraine-Russia Megathread 3
Ukraine-Russia Megathread 3
Being told this is fairly reliable for info on the situation in Ukraine. let me know if it isn't. https://liveuamap.com/
Ukraine-Russia Megathread 3
Being told this is fairly reliable for info on the situation in Ukraine. let me know if it isn't. https://liveuamap.com/
Called my relatives in Eastern Ukraine, spent half an hour listening to how much they hate Putin, Zelensky, Poroshenko, Yanukovich, Kravchuk, Gorbachev, capitalism, post-Soviet states, Ukrainian troops that blew up a bridge like two km from them, supermarkets that doubled prices overnight, Ukrainian nationalists, Russian nationalists, USA, NATO and mobilisation.
holy shit
there is a low but real possibility that louis ck will be this generation's archduke ferdinand
no but for real can you imagine how the NYT would write about it if that plane fell on him or something? only mention of the sex crimes would be the word "troubled"
It’s been really disappointing seeing so many so-called Marxist-“leninists” going to bat for Russia over this issue. Like I literally got banned from two separate “communist” subreddits over the past few days solely because I told people that communists should abide by the principle of revolutionary defeatism and not to pick sides in inter-imperialist conflicts. Mind blowing how people can claim to be followers of a man’s ideology, and yet not follow one of the dude’s simplest principles
Vladimir Putin's actions are criminal and immoral, but that doesn't change the fact that the sheer bewildering bullheadedness of American foreign policy is what ultimately brought us to this point. Putin's been saying since 2007 that Ukraine joining NATO was an absolute red line for Russia. For fifteen years he's repeated that point, over and over, and getting more and more openly baffled and exasperated that the west seemed not to believe or hear him. But the west just kept pushing and pushing, and making assurances to Ukraine that they would one day join NATO. Even though it was incredibly obvious that they never had any intention of doing any such thing, the west for some fucking reason just couldn't bring themselves to just say so, to do any kind of real diplomacy, to recognize any of Russia's obvious red lines and core interests. None of America's actions leading up to this had anything remotely to do with it's national interests. We just kept saying that Ukraine would join NATO, based on a half-baked and unclear moral principle, which we never had any intention of living up to. We acted like a child playing with an action figure and making up a nonsensical story, only the action figure was Ukraine. America treated Ukraine like a toy and now they're paying the price.
Kyiv is handing out weapons to civilians
https://twitter.com/GeromanAT/status/1497179984909246482
(This is Insanity , ensruing it to become as bloody as it can be.... )
finally decided to create an account here after lurking for well over a year and originally posting on r/cth years ago
i’ve been listening to my very liberal family talk about what’s going on and i love them but their liberal brain worms are just so maddening. “someone should just assassinate putin” “putin is trying to recreate the ussr” “how can ukraine be run by nazis when their president is jewish?? stupid putin” “putin is doing this because he’s a narcissist and a dictator” “this basically means that china is free to do the same to taiwan if they wanted nothing’s stopping them” and “ukraine and russia are like a toxic, abusive relationship where russia won’t let ukraine see other people (NATO) after they broke up (collapse of USSR)” are just a few examples of the takes i’ve heard from them today. now they’re going on about russian cyber attacks (“they did it in 2016 for our election!” lol), at least they’re anti-american intervention in this case. i’ve dropped a few things here and there about the azov battalion being nazis and about how the U.S. meddling to get Yeltsin elected and the 2014 U.S backed Ukranian coup were key to what’s happening now unfolding, but just to give them tid bits of information i’m far too exhausted to effort post irl and argue with them about how NATO is actually in the wrong here.
but yeah about all of that seems to be the average, american liberal consensus on the subject right now based off what i’ve been hearing
i made the mistake of listening to some AP and BBC news at work today and i TOTALLY understand where they are getting those :brainworms: from
oh yeah definitely they’ve had msbnc on and i heard a lot of those talking points said by the pundits
how can ukraine be run by nazis when their president is jewish
how can hitler be the leader of the Nazi movement if no blonde blue eye aryan wtf
How can United States be racist if President Obama black
Immense empathy with you on this. Here’s the lib discourse I’m seeing in my circles, basically verbatim:
Lib 1 (who says happy birthday to Gorbachev every year): one sad outcome of all this is that it’s gonna be pretty hard to convince countries to give up their nukes .
Lib 2 (who has the flag in their profile pic): I agree, and I feel like NATO was too eager in its eastward expansions.
Lib 3 (who also has the flag in their pic): no. Go read the Minsk agreement. This is nowhere NATO’s fault. Why are you parroting Putin’s talking point?
Oh btw, these are college professors with fucking phds in either humanities or social sciences.
:yea:
:agony-4horsemen:
When the main stream fed only one narrative, that is what happen
This is your brain on liberalism’s great man theory. Regardless of who is in power, putin or navalny this situation would happen regardless
Alright guys. Here's the truth.
Kyiv has fallen, Putin is dead, thousands of Russian troops are dead and morale is low, Zelensky was last seen parachuting out of a cargo plane with a briefcase full of money,
Russia only had somewhere between 2,000 to 1.25 million troops left to spare. Things are going so well for Ukraine they decided to conscript 60 year olds as a prank.
In a surprising turn of events the Kyiv airport has been seized by joint Ukraine-Russian forces after what can only be described as "mole men" burst out from under the tarmac.
Go to /r/worldnews for more reliable information
People are sharing a video allegedly depicting the "Ghost of Kyiv" taking down a Russian fighter. Except the video was made in a game, Digital Combat Simulator, lmao. I'll be honest, I was convinced at first, it looks super realistic.
Macron saying Putin is "taking us back to the age of empires" is very ironic considering France still maintains that 14 African countries must use the Franc of the French Colonies in Africa as their currency, maintaining 50% of assets in the French Central Bank, and the assassination of tens of African leaders in the past 50 years.
Guess it's only "the end of history" when it happens in Europe, in Africa it's just sparkling pain.
The Russian government is now saying it's ready to send a delegation to Minsk to negotiate with the Ukrainian government.
I've "got to hand it to them", Russia is doing some highly refined trolling by using western bullshit terms like "military operation", "surgical strike" and "peacekeeping" in an explicitly anti-western context.
I have to preface this with Putin sucks, and I do mean this sincerely, but holy shit the Russians know how to fight wars on the operational level. Like it was something I always studied and was aware of, but part of me always doubts the efficacy of any armed force and I was not expecting them to be rolling Ukraine as fast as they are. I guess that's what those Soviet military institutions and doctrines get you, and hopefully liberals can stfu about the Warsaw Pact having been a paper tiger.
Per CNN
In his video message to the Ukrainian people early Friday morning, President Volodymyr Zelensky said "sooner or later, Russia will have to talk to us about ending this military operation, about ending this invasion, and the sooner this conversation begins, the less Russia's losses will be."
Completely and utterly delusional
Ppl always wonder, how tf did people let Nazi genocide happen? Well, this is how, you are seeing it with your own eyes. With the barrage of media propaganda. Germany's Sholtz says that Russian claims of genocide in Donbass are "laughable." NATO countries refuse any dialogue, any concessions. Western MSM say defend Ukraine, Putin is a war criminal etc. NO ONE WANTS TO TALK, NO ONE WANTS TO LISTEN. This is fucking how. "Low information" people think they're the "goodies," cheer for genocide. Of course there would be nothing left for Russia to do than de-nazification, since no one seems to understand anything else but force. No one will mourn or defend Slavs but themselves.
Lol saw some Kyiv vs Kiev discourse. It reminds me of "don't call them isis, call them daesh". No one cares about this shit outside of people who want to yell at other people online.
I was called a tankie once for referring to North Korea as the DPRK lol
North Korea is western erasure of what the country is actually called. It’s the DPRK. You’re correct comrade.
I think it's hilarious because neither keev nor kee-ev are how it's pronounced in Ukrainian.
See also the 'The' discourse
le donbas :troll:
It can be interesting to watch Twitter when shit is going down, but now that things are cooling off slightly, everyone needs to get their "take" in, and then everyone else needs to scold each other for having the wrong take as if any of it fucking matters (right or wrong). Truly a terrible platform.
teleSUR reported Putin has given Zelensky an ultimatum: surrender for peace terms including "neutral status and a refusal to deploy weapons on its territory" or the military offensive continues.
Russian President Vladimir Putin expressed his openness to resolve this issue through dialogues with his Ukrainian counterpart. He looks for neutral status and a refusal to deploy weapons on its territory as part of Russia's red line issues. According to Peskov [Dmitry Peskov, Press Secretary of the Kremlin], such terms are the only right choice to reach the removal of military forces from Ukraine and lower the current escalation of the crisis, which threatens the security of the Russian state and its people.
Peskov noted Putin's statements on the operation, which is intended to assure peace in the Donbass region according to the president. In recent days, this region has been attacked by the Ukrainian army, claimed leaders of the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics. Russia's operation intends to frustrate any Ukrainian military response.
So if I'm understanding this correctly, we're waiting for Zelensky to
Honestly that sounds reasonable. Don't join NATO and bring that aggression closer to their doorstep, recognize Donetsk and Lugansk as legitimate, and they'll stop the attacks and withdraw.
With the US/Ukraine line being that Putin's goal is to kill Zelensky and his family, overthrow the government and install a Russian puppet, those seem like the best terms they could expect, even if they heroically hold out.
Of course the offer could be disingenuous, but if it is taken seriously, the only reason not to take it seems to be a desire to get a bunch of civilians killed for national pride.
Saving face and cranking the meatgrinder to 11 with Western reinforcements is the only other option, and it's the dumbest possibility so I wouldn't rule it out
a refusal to deploy weapons on its territory
Does this mean that DPR/LPR would still be ukrainian under the terms? That seems like a major demand to leave unstated.
Even if Ukraine isn't required to recognize DPR/LPR, it's a fait acompli at this point. The other two terms assure their independence and eventual integration into Russia. Putin's not demanding they recognize Crimea as Russian territory either.
This is what I'm stumbling over as well.
it's fucking frightening how many idiots on reddit are rooting for full scale war with NATO. hearing either "ehh putin won't use the nukes, he's bluffing" to "russian nuclear weapons are mostly inactive". like.. muthafuckers, i was a child during the end of the cold war. i used to pick up books in elementary school with nuclear blast damage illustrations showing what happens to a person, car, building at various radii. used to have dreams of looking out my bedroom to see the nearby military base go up in a bright flash and feel the heat on my face. this shit sucks, nuclear war isn't winnable, it's not heroic or le epic or whatever it's the end. the end of everything.
“But if #Ukraine is to survive and thrive, it must not be either side’s outpost against the other -- it should function as a bridge between them.” -- Dr. Henry A. Kissinger, “To Settle the Ukraine Crisis, Start at the End”, Mar. 5, 2014
When ghoul like this is more realistic than modern ghoul. The current ghoul are getting dumber and dumber and more bloodthirsty
That ghoul is a dr lmao what'd he get his doctorate in? Human suffering?
He graduated from Harvard, so yes
Kissinger, while he is satan, is also a ruthless realist and pragmatist. If the most realistic and pragmatic solution is to kill 10 million people, he will be all for it. If it's for something good and peaceful, he's ok with that, too.
Perfectly named emoji right dere :marx-ok:
This wasn't even a controversial take in NATO pre-2014. Was pretty common from what I remember but the lanyards in Washington are unhinged.
I'm in no way saying NATO was good back then either though.
Lets talk about sanctions. How about not releasing THE BATMAN in Russia this one might be a joke
Now that Putin has helped himself to Ukraine, should Biden help himself to #Cuba?
If I could somehow summon the powers of a real life #Peacemaker 🦸
Calling Ukrainians Nazis is akin to calling Black people a racial slur
Some amazing tweets collected by this account
Cynical to say that preventing this by negotiating with Putin wouldve been the same as negotiating with Hitler. Every episode of Russian aggression was preceded by something. Bush administration floating NATO membership and encouraging Georgia to attack, Euromaidan, the making of Ukraine into a defacto NATO state since the Trump administration, etc. Unipolar America was used to a weak Russia just sucking up NATO expansion, so much so that they've ignored two serious warnings and refused to take Putin seriously even they saw an invasion coming. I am not defending Putin but he was obviously a rational actor and could've been stopped through diplomacy any time since 2008, the Americans simply decided that Ukraine devolving into bloody conflict was an acceptable outcome.
He witnessed forced conscriptions...
Long story short: I just walked to Poland. It was a hellish 20-hour journey undertaken in the middle of winter with thousands of refugees. I saw some terrible things:
I just found out that the guy who said Russia calling Ukrainians “Nazis” is the same as calling black people the N word is an Atlantic council ghoul lol