CEO of UnitedHealthcare fatally shot outside of NYC hotel, source says
UnitedHealthcare CEO fatally shot outside NYC hotel, source says
Remember this?
UnitedHealth uses AI model with 90% error rate to deny care, lawsuit alleges
Thompson, who was named CEO in April 2021, was pronounced dead at Mount Sinai West.
Good thing he had health insurance for his stay at Mount Sinai; some aren't so lucky thanks to worthless puddles of filth like this.
Edit: Zero sympathy. Negative sympathy, even.
Link above to ARS Technica article titled: UnitedHealth uses AI model with 90% error rate to deny care, lawsuit alleges.
Are they sure it wasn't a pre-existing condition?
Yeah, it’s crazy how terminal affluenza can be these days
UnitedHealthcare CEO fatally shot outside NYC hotel in 'premeditated, preplanned targeted attack'
premeditated
preplanned
Ah, so a preexisting condition. So sorry, law enforcement can't do anything about it.
It should go without saying that such violence is not good and not supportable.
That said, I also think those who make monopolistic fortunes off the sick while also dictating refusal of care to the sick are categorically not civilians. It is what it is.
Why should this piece of shit get more sympathy than a convenience store cashier who gets shot during a robbery?
Because the mods get off on simping for the rich it seems.
Oh no not violence against the rich! Inexcusable I say!
It's apparently against community rules to discuss violence in any form.
So instead let's talk about giving CEOs bunnies. Everybody loves bunnies and maybe putting a bunny in a CEOs lap will show them the love they are sorely missing.
Give every CEO a bunny. Give them 20. Give them bunnies while their backs are turned, surprise them with bunnies. Send them bunnies to their homes. Let them y know they are loved even while they're away from work. Put bunnies in their beds, in their cars. No billionaire CEO should ever turn a corner without knowing a bunny is there waiting. Let the billionaires know the true depths of our love. With bunnies.
Violence is the reason every judge tip toed around Trump. Violence is possibly the only factor America will listen to. It's certainly the only language they speak.
Even well executed and thought out peaceful non compliance only worked after taking a lot of beatings and with a bit of luck.
And most importantly, with the threat of violence as the alternative.
Peace can work too, but the Ivory towers types need to learn that ignoring peaceful protest, and undermining accountability and regulation, will inevitability lead to violence. He brought this on himself.
I’ll send the ceo some hopes and prayers
Fucking hell the mods are on a tear here. How does that boot taste?
Also go fuck yourself, mods.
It should go without saying
Shoooould it thoooough?
I almost commented that UnitedHealthcare doesn't have a monopoly, but that's really only true at a national level. In some US states, they're the only option.
The disgusting profits are a product the health insurance industry, they only make money by denying coverage. It's an environment that encourages human suffering.
"those who make monopolistic fortunes off the sick while also dictating refusal of care to the sick" is hardly arbitrary, though, is it. It's quite a high bar to clear, that. It's rational too, since they do many orders of magnitude more harm than e.g. a death row inmate, whom society is content to destroy.
being judgmental towards the only person in the comments being even vaguely critical of murder because you can’t read
It should go without saying that such violence is not good and not supportable.
I am not celebrating. It's a tragedy, even if a predictable one. We'll all do better with a little more cooperation and a lot less greed.
I don't like it when people die, or get maimed.
If I say that I can understand how something like this happens, it's not out of sympathy for the murderer. It's just an accounting of facts amidst the fact that billions of people exist so obviously someone is going to be willing to kill for their perceived injustices. Especially when injustices are a lot more concrete than abstract.
Buddy if you think it's just the left operating this way I have some beach front property in Arizona for a good price.
The ruling class isn't a "civilian", because they literally command armed forces.
While not always called "armies", their function is the same: Secure the interest of the capitalist class.
Just like I wouldn't call the POTUS a "civilian", as the POTUS commands an armed force.
Insurance companies regularly commit acts of violence on the poor and sick for the benefit of their bottom line. People literally die because of the decisions this CEO made, so when the shoe is on the other foot, don't come crying because we know you're not an innocent actor, insurance company.
Not to mention lobbying against anything that would possibly help the situation and unseat them of their stranglehold on people's medical outcomes.
We've been led to believe that killing someone through the world's shitiest Rube Goldberg machine of paperwork, policy, legalese, and "just doing my job" is somehow not killing someone.
Killing with a pen is no morally better than killing with a gun. One just takes longer than the other.
Let’s be honest here. This is probably the only way a ceo would ever be punished for crimes against the poor in America. Unfortunately this will probably lead to the increased militarisation of ceo security teams (and the police) rather than a recognition of why someone would want to dome a ceo in the first place.
Remember, Elizabeth Holmes didn't get in trouble for providing incorrect medical tests to the plebs. She got in trouble for stealing from other rich people.
this will probably lead to the increased militarisation of ceo security teams
People can start going after their family
There is an uper limit to how much that kind of security can help.
Yep. It’s messed up that the heads of corporations have driven the legal system to the point that they are in essence completely insulated from the consequences that their leadership inflicts on anyone not a well-paid manager at their company.
From the constant pressure on wages, benefits, and the grind for frontline workers to environmental damage to the enshittification of the product…and in this case the rejection of care could directly have life altering consequences.
Send a boilerplate condolence which arrives a day or two before the final bill. Nothing matters as long as the BoD and shareholders are happy.
Healthcare holds two of the top 10 slots in this list for the most profitable industries, arguably holding the third slot if they were combined, and probably holing the top slot if pharmaceutical research was included. We’re getting f’d for “care.”
It's nice that whomever did this didn't take their grudge out on a bunch of powerless workers. So often you see someone with a grudge against... whatever end up shooting a bunch of minimum wage employees who had no hand in their misfortune.
I feel sorry for the people who suffered and died due to the awful health insurance industry.
I am honestly surprised people fucked over by health insurance haven't tried to take things into their own hands before, if that's what this is. And if that's not what this is, it surprises me that it hasn't happened yet.
Plenty of people (me included) have been severely fucked over by insurance companies. I'm not willing to kill anyone, but there are a lot of people out there who are. Especially if they know they're dying and have nothing to lose.
The CEO is an employee, a manager. You know how shops have managers hired by the owners to run the place? If that were the motive, wouldn't owners be the preferred target?
Did you just say with a straight face that a CEO is simply a middleman who was powerless to change the internal workings of a system?
A CEO is a CEO. Just because they are accountable to the shareholders does not make them working class. The CEO is the closest thing a corporation has to a singular owner. Their compensation package includes shares (ownership) of the company and they are the ones who make the decisions.
Literally their "job" is to be responsible for the actions of a corporation.
CEOs often are paid primarily in stock, so more than likely this guy had a significant ownership stake.
Excuse me? There is a bit left there on your chin.
If the CEO disagrees with the directions of the board, the CEO has a number of options. They can easily be considered culpable.
Sometimes you take what you can get.
When people are pushed to the point they have nothing left to lose this kinda thing will happen. I'm sort of surprised this kinda of things doesn't happen more often to people who make their fortunes off the suffering of others.
I am honestly shocked that something like this hadn't happened much sooner
Maybe if we're (un)lucky this will be the start of a new trend.
"The motive for this murder is currently unknown but based on the evidence we have so far, it does appear the victim was specifically targeted," he told reporters. "But at this point, we do not know why."
We don't?
We can certainly imagine.
A few years ago on a cruise we sat at a table with a doctor who said he was in charge of all United Healthcare insurance approvals. This guy didn't just mention he had to sometimes refuse people care, he was absolutely giddy about it and took sadistic pleasure in seeing other people suffer. We moved to a different table to get away from him.
I guess we'll find out eventually, but I've got to wonder if the shooter was pushed over the edge after someone close to him died due to refusal of care by United Healthcare.
I hope we never find out. Let these fuckers live in fear knowing that dude is still out there.
You should have gotten closer to him, especially while he was leaning over railings.
It can always be off putting how people deal with death.
A doctor has to numb themselves somewhat but like you mention there are those that are too numb.
You need a doctor that is not so affected by the moment, but you also don’t want a sociopath…
Naw, I have worked in EMS. Yeah, there are coping mechanisms that people might find distasteful. Dark humor and all that.
You don't bring it up in conversation with strangers though. That isn't coping, that is reveling.
Where did you get the idea this guy was numb?
I'm sorry, bullets aren't covered by my healthcare executive sympathy plan.
CEOs of exploitative corporations should take notice.
edit: the fucking mods are out of line.
For real, Right!?
Serious mod abuse in this thread. Removing a lot of posts that don't actually break any rules.
Like I get that you have to ensure that people follow the rules, but you're waaaaaay overstepping that line.
Edit: seems to have calmed down a few hours after I posted this, now comments aren't getting removed unless they actually break the rules, as far as I can tell.
Mostly. I think the mods just got tired and figured they could delete all the comments once the discussion dies down and people are less likely to notice.
I'm not gonna celebrate or call for violence, but I am going to say I'm definitely not as bothered by this as I am with the constant cop killings and school shootings.
Late stage capitalism is getting to the terminal stage, I think. Well, it did for this CEO, at the least.
Having just had someone I care about go through the American health care system, I get it.
My person went through months of agony and will never be completely the same, for absolutely no reason other than the system trying to squeeze a little more money out.
I would never do this kind of thing. I don't think it's the way. But I get it. More than once I fantasized about burning down the head offices of the insurance company. I just don't think you can kill and hurt vulnerable people at massive scale for profit with your smug little grin, and expect people to ignore it forever, only because there's a set of traditions right now that makes it all legal.
private insurance profits only exist when human beings suffer. they cant both pay all required healthcare services and profit. human beings are required to suffer for their stock price.
theyve done a great job of convincing people that somehow magically their profits are separate from their required payouts, but that is a farce to make those reliant on private insurance feel better about fucking human beings over.
Getting to the find out stage.
Turns out it wasn’t the gunshots that killed him. Insurance declined because he wasn’t covered for that caliber and he wound up dying of infection.
/s
"Profits before People"-style mass murder gunned down. Thoughts and prayers. Bury the company with him.
I have never had worse "insurance" than when I had United "Healthcare". They have you a big book full of all their "providers", but when you called to make an appointment, you were told they'd left United quite a while back and shouldn't be in the book. A few providers were still in network, but they weren't accepting new patients. Their "provider support" line was completely useless, because they would only read you out the "options" available in the book, the one with all the ghost providers.
My SIL in southern New Jersey ended up with them for some reason. She needed to see an OB/Gyn due to some abnormal bleeding that had been going on for too long. She went through their provider carousel and finally found one provider who was still in network and also still accepting new patients. That provider was 2.5 hours away from her, in the very other end of New Jersey.
I eventually did find one local provider who was in network, except they never did any comprehensive medical visits; you had to visit them for one issue at a time, at least a week apart. They'd give you a prescription or a referral but (once again) you were entirely on your own finding someone to accept the referral. Like there were times I'd make a dozen phone calls a day for weeks, trying to find someone who could see me - it was very much an entire part-time job trying to see someone!
I ended up switching insurance and have ended up 'captured' within a regional hospital's provider network. The hospital bought up a bunch of local independent providers in all the different specialities. I'm really unhappy with the continued corporatization of healthcare and the conglomeration of hospital networks - but the ability to call one number, be given a specialist within reasonable driving distance and (in that same phone call) be given an appointment within a reasonable timeframe is just so refreshing!
I was told by my nexyt door neighbor doctor that they pay doctors such abysmally low rates that no doctor wants to take their patients. It seems like a scheme to collect premiums and not render any care for members. And its one of the largest health care companies in the US.
in the very other end of New Jersey
At least she wasn't in Texas. Might get admitted and still might not get care for that kind of thing.
I ended up switching insurance and have ended up ‘captured’ within a regional hospital’s provider network. The hospital bought up a bunch of local independent providers in all the different specialities. I’m really unhappy with the continued corporatization of healthcare and the conglomeration of hospital networks - but the ability to call one number, be given a specialist within reasonable driving distance and (in that same phone call) be given an appointment within a reasonable timeframe is just so refreshing!
I haven't had to test their reaction to more serious issues, where I've heard they're less good, but I'm covered by Kaiser and I like that in a single visit I can get my regular checkup, get my eyes checked, get new glasses, get bloodwork done, get vaccines, and pickup medicine at the pharmacy. For regular care the only thing that would be better if there wasn't a profit motive involved at all.
Deeply ironic that when this news broke I was in an urgent care out of network because I couldn't get an appointment anywhere with my employer provided United Healthcare.
Oh well, anyway.
The motive for this murder is currently unknown, but based on the evidence we have so far, it does appear the victim was specifically targeted," he told reporters. "But at this point, we do not know why." (...) "There had been some threats," [Paulete Thompson, Brian's wife] told NBC News. "Basically, I don’t know, a lack of coverage? I don’t know details. I just know that he said there were some people that had been threatening him."
Try "he was an absolute asshole and the group was making people's lives hell in order to profit" for a reason.
UnitedHealth Group, the parent company, was holding its annual investor conference Wednesday morning in New York City but abruptly ended it due to a "very serious medical situation" with a team member.
The corporation using this fucking bullshit corpospeech for "our CEO was shot" makes me irrationally angry.
Heroic gunman stops mass murderer from continuing his work.
Good.
Edit: To the Downvoters, Lick boots.
Totally read that like:
Americans pay more for healthcare than any other country in the world. And that healthcare might be good, if you make it through all the barriers first. And you could be dead before that happens. If you even have healthcare after the incoming administration does what they plan on doing.
People are getting fed up and there are only going to be more desperate Americans going forward. Things are not going to get better. Expect more headlines like this in the future.
you eat me to it
Awh noo.. The shooter got away :(
The shooter fled the scene on foot and then on a New York Citi Bike, Tisch said. He was last seen in Central Park. As of Wednesday morning, no arrests had been made, police said. Crime Stoppers was offering a $10,000 reward for information.
What a terrible tragedy, these are incredibly dark times. How will we as a nation, nay, a species, recover? This is a really really bad thing, and I do not like it. What has this poor, poor CEO done to deserve this? God, it should've been me! It should've been me!
Be careful talking about legal things that can happen as MODS WILL ERASE YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT IT, and state it is against TOS even though it is not a call for violence, not an attack on users or groups, discrimination against anyone, isn't doxing, has nothing to do with privacy, is not a system disruption, is not illegal content, is not violent content, is not misinformation, nor is it doing harm. JURY NULLIFICATION IS NOT AGAINST TOS nor IS saying TEMPORARY INSANITY PLEA against TOS. IF MODS DO DELETE this please tell me which part of TOS any of this goes against? Edit: jury nullification is : "refusal of a jury to find a defendant guilty even with established guilt, because a conclusion that conviction would be contrary to some other concept of justice." Temporary insanity plea means: the defendant was mentally unstable when the crime took place. None of these endorse violence or are saying what the person did is correct. It is just saying that in this instance the defendant shouldn't be punished for their actions.
Unfortunately, rather than distribute his pay and bonuses and benefits in order to provide a living wage for hospital staff, the rest of the upper management will have a benefits-cutting contest to decide which one of their own to elevate.
Healthcare is a human right. Socialized medicine is cheaper than our current system, gives more people access, and prevents incidents like this.
I'm relatively sure that the shooter will turn out to be someone who had a loved one suffer and die because they were refused health care coverage. This may turn out to be only the first of similar incidents.
Oops, sorry but I don’t feel sorry. Using a flawed ai to deny life saving care for people that paid for said insurance, maybe some board of directors should be held responsible as well….
But the reality price they'll arrange is like $800, all covered by the copay, and the tipster will end up with $14,000 of surprise bills over the next 14 months to cover the administrative cost of paying him off.
Instructions unclear. Sending $5 tip to person in image.
Wonder if he was doing something genuinely good with his day or if he was on his way to a presentation with investors where they can gameplan new ways to capitalize on human suffering.
Shame, we'll never know.
Per NPR, an annual investor's conference for their parent company was scheduled to start this morning - https://www.npr.org/2024/12/04/nx-s1-5215881/brian-thompson-unitedhealthcare-ceo-shot-new-york
Mods just deleted another of my comments for saying
"For America to get better, we need to be okay with bad things happening to bad people"
I am not entirely sure how this statement is calling for violence. Or Glorifying it. Or is even controversial.
The Mods here suck.
"A person familiar with the matter told CNBC that the suspect was wearing a black hoodie and black pants and was carrying a gray backpack. It’s believed the suspect used a firearm with a silencer." So this was a hit? I'll grant that a lot of people might have wanted to take this guy out, but the real question is who was so motivated as to make it happen?
First reported in NY Post: https://nypost.com/2024/12/04/us-news/ceo-of-unitedhealthcare-fatally-shot-outside-of-hilton-hotel-in-nyc-in-possible-targeted-attack-sources/
but the real question is who was so motivated as to make it happen?
Anyone who has been denied necessary healthcare by UHC or anyone who's loved one died because they were denied necessary healthcare by UHC would have a motive.
Died, disabled, or went through other unnecessary, avoidable pain and suffering. It's... quite a pool of candidates.
It sounds like he was receiving regular death threats and considered it par for the course.
suspect was wearing a black hoodie and black pants
Me: Nope, never seem anyone like that before...
Officer: What about the guy in this picture wearing a black hoodie and pants that you appear to be staring at in this security video?
Me: Yeah... doesn't sound familiar.
Officer: Sir, that was 5 minutes ago...
Officer, I'm sorry, after re-examining the picture I am now sure I have seen that man multiple times.
Once a week for almost my entire life on Sunday's, and one time when I got tired walking on the beach he gave me a piggy back ride.
but the real question is who was so motivated as to make it happen
Well there are 330+ million people on the United States so…
Yes, but not all of them use UnitedHealth.
The only people who don't hate the US insurance industry are a) those who benefit financially from it and b) those who haven't been fucked over by it yet. Granted there are a lot of people in group b but all of them will eventually leave it.
So you're saying they have a very limited pool of potential suspects?
I'd be okay with them never finding out.
Yah know, in this modern world there are so many things that are immediately knowable, and yet even looking up something knowable takes time. I encourage people to rest comfortably in those tiny moments of unknowing, for the time during which they last. Savor the mystery.
A loss I will not mourn. I also extend no sympathy to his family. This man engaged in some of the most evil activity humanity has ever perpetrated—profiting on human suffering.
Wow, I came to Lemmy because the reddit mods were little bitches. Where to next?
This bit of news does not bother me at all. I wonder if this will become a trend now
Looks like they'll be sending him back to the people, in a bodybag.
i mean of course people will eventually get so mad at ceo types to do things like this.
killing them individually like this won't fundamentally change things though, even if we get a little schadenfraude.
in addition to this, organize and collectivize that anger and we got ourselves real change.
lol. lmao, even.
I'm a rep for United Morgues R US. I just wanted to talk to you about your dearly departed. Specifically the length, width and height please. Does he have insurance that covers the box or will it be openbox? We have pine boxes of every level but you might be interested in the special finishes like the seashore metalized powder coating. Its only $50k. Such a bargain. We have the burnado, which is an excellent way to prepare for diamonds of colors. The box comes pre-preg with the correct chemicals for blue diamond, ruby and other elegant colors. Making diamonds from your loved ones during the holiday is 50% off, at just $99k! But if you desire, we can also mulch, evaporate or Kitty litter your loved one. Some people preferred the mix with coffee option...that's only $15/lb this week. Act now and we'll deliver for free a custom deluxe, one of a kind gorme swiss army pin-like plastic hood ornament, on the house.
Gold.
I mean, I thought we were gonna eat the rich, but this will do.
The CNN video thumbnail goes hard so I decided to make a low effort fake album cover.
lmfao i love karma
A food cart vendor near the scene told NBC News that he did not hear any gunshots but saw police vehicles and two helicopters in the area.
Why is news media so stupid?
They already do. Its why the actual Occupy Wall St protests were quickly and ruthlessly dismantled and the useless Change.Org was set up.
Is that were change.org came from? Huh, never knew
They do: guillotines for people who criticize their horrid actions
Careful this comment might get removed
Probably safer for bystanders than dynamite.
How long till Blackwater is authorized to operate on US soil?
Looks like we're speed running Cyberpunk!
Get ready for corpos walking around with those giant Arasaka bodyguards
I would think that this would draw attention that they are viable targets.
How long till Blackwater is authorized to operate on US soil?
They already are.
Back when we were still talking about Biden's replacement, and people who shoot down AOC solely because she was the left most option, I started telling people my ideal candidate was Boots Riley, but I'm willing to compromise for AOC.
That being said "Guillotine" and even "Parents' Cocaine" are streets ahead of "5 million".
Finally, now I know who is asking the tech companies for AI.
Time to block this fucking instance and it's shit fucking class traitor mods
Huh.
Game over. What was his score?
It's zero now.
There's an awful lot of celebratory assumptions going on here, I'd caution everybody that we still don't know the reason this guy was killed.
Everyone WANTS it to be "scumbag insurance exec. killed for scumbag insurance reasons", but we just don't know at this point.
Jilted lover? Could be. Caught cheating? Sure, why not? Insurance killing? Weirder things have happened. Friend or relative just sick of his shit? I mean, I dunno the guy, but anything is possible. Completely random killing? In MY New York City? It's more likely than you think!
In short, before you all start going "Wooo! Good start!" maybe take a breath and wait until we know more about what happened.
All I need to hear is "Scumbag insurance exec killed" to be satisfied. I don't care much about the reasons, personally. Excepting it may be icing on my cake if it was due to a denied claim.
I think we should care about the reasons, because if it turns out he got killed because somebody approved an abortion or gender affiming care, all of a sudden the narrative gets turned on its head.
It's way more likely for people who approve those medical procedures to get killed than for people who deny those procedures.
Which is why I advise caution. You don't know what you're celebrating yet.
It sounds like her husband received threats over a "lack of coverage" before the shooting.
If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
Doubt it was random since it was so well orchestrated. You bring up a great point though, it's best not to assume motive until more information is available.
Oh, rofl, I did not read the word
fatally
right the first time.
Me neither and found it normal to find some eagerness to this type of CEO'S demise.
🍽
🥰
Awe shucks.
I wonder if it's possible to form a fight club, but with class as a basis
Isn't this basically the plot of one of the Saw movies? Maybe minus some steps.
Locking. About 50 reports. I'm a volunteer, and don't have enough time for this.
🤣
Bruh...
This timeline just gets stranger and stranger...
I don't think anybody deserves such a fate, but it does seem he was asking for it at least a little.
Is the shooter a tech bro or photographer? He’s wearing a peak design everyday backpack: https://www.peakdesign.com/products/everyday-backpack?Size=20L&Color=Ash
death squads are not things to cheer on in my book.
They're called "insurance companies", and yeah the amount of death and suffering they cause is pretty wild.
Well good, this was one person. What does your book have to say about vigilantes?
I feel like a lot of comments here equate a CEO with the owners.
\
CEOs chose to be the guard dogs & executioners doing bad shit.
While I'm not saying that would even change any of the comments, I do wanna add the context that basically anyone can be CEO, it's really one of the more replaceable jobs. The elite hire guys like this to to be the face for figurative and literal bullets, and compensate them well for that.
And so who are the “owners” then in this context? It’s a public company. So you mean the shareholders.
Who is responsible for directing a company? Who is responsible for their performance and integrity? Is it the shareholders? Or is it someone else?
Yes, the shareholders.
Shareholders chose the supervisory board and dictate the general direction, differs a lot but at least profit goals (short and long term).
CEOs that don't perform, or leave low hanging fruit, or won't do what others are willing to do just get replaced.
Shareholders have all the power to give CEOs different goals - eg a number of people covered or don't anything non-monetary.
\
At the very least if CEOs wouldn't be incentivized by company profits things would be better.
You'll have to forgive me for not feeling sympathy when he oversaw UHC denying claims ten times more often than other insurers. How many families do you think experienced their own worst nightmares as a result of his actions?
He has teenage sons who are today experiencing the absolute worst nightmare of their lives. He has a family that will be shattered by this. This isn’t some game or a movie where the bad guys just lost. This is real life.
Sounds like what's probably happening within dozens of families every day for people who have died because they were denied life saving coverage by UHC.
because y’all are being violent.
Being glad a bad person is gone isn't being violent. This man chose to take part in what is widely known to be a predatory and sometimes lethal system that can literally place people into poverty. And he chose to take part in an integral way near the top of that structure. He helped perpetuate it from the top.
These are not good people.
The gunman was violent. Anyone that's glad or indifferent is not.
It's an interesting moral case. The current economic system rewards sociopathic wealth hoarding. How can we fight that? Is he an enemy combatant in the class war? I literally don't know.
not really, sins of the father is a concept older than the bible
Yeah, give the good guys guns so they can defend themselves from the bad guys with guns. This is literally your argument
You think the successor will change shit? This has to be changed politically, not just to hope you have a keen CEO; If you don't deliver financially shareholders will just replace you
This isn't some game or a movie where the bad guys just lost. This is real life.
This is real life where a badguy just lost
How can you describe UnitedHealthCare's practices as anything other than bloodlust? They fired the first shot in this war.
Someone up thread brought up that someone in a position such as a health care CEO can cause a tremendous amount more of suffering than death row inmates might have caused. That is an interesting point.
It has also crossed my mind that if, once a week, the richest person on the planet were killed, eventually fear would outweigh greed, and remaining folks of extraordinary means would be likely to be pushed toward justice.
And yet…
I am not a killer. I live in a country where I don't want to see the kind of assassinations I read about abroad. I want the rule of law to prevail. I'm cognizant that if a movement took off where powerful, “evil” people were killed, there would probably be an opposite reaction that could lead to snowballing violence.
Overall, this is a complex subject. Reasonable arguments can be made and supported by various ethical frameworks. I imagine good people are likely to experience cognitive dissonance when reading this news.
tl;dr murder bad, fairness & widespread prosperity good
only reason he's in the news is cause he's rich
The other post had it just as bad if not worse before it was removed entirely.
I tried to bring up the point that a system where we kill CEOs because we don't like their business practices isn't going to fix anything and the downvotes immediately poured in.
Either this is just the way that a lot of people on Lemmy think, or there's some concerted effort/psyop trying to stir discontent among the users here.
For a bit there I was doubting if I even wanted to be associated with Lemmy anymore, but at least it looks like the mods have been cleaning up the worst comments.
You're all ghouls. Each and every one of you who revels in this. Ironically, that's exactly what you claim his crime was.
I'm ashamed and embarrassed to be associated with you miserable wretches who would glorify murder to sate your revenge fantasies. You have no shame.
None of you know anything about this man aside from his occupation. You're all hateful, ignorant, self-righteous assholes.
Preserving evil people isn't the moral high ground you think it is.
None of you know anything about this man aside from his occupation.
Would you defend an Auschwitz guard using the same argument?
You’re all ghouls. Each and every one of you who revels in this. Ironically, that’s exactly what you claim his crime was.
Nah, its kinda like celebrating the death of any mass murderer. Doesn't make one a ghoul to celebrate one less evil person on the planet.
Curious for you to explain why you see it as "revenge"?
That term seems to imply that Thompson had caused harm of some sort.
Care to help me understand better?
Anacyclosis needs to happen, and there's nothing ghoulish about evil ending.
Go touch grass
"calls for violence in any form against any living creature" are a violation of lemmy.world terms of service. Comments calling for or celebrating violence will be removed, and may result in additional moderation actions
Being happy and calling for it are different
thin line. many people got sent to jail in England for celebrating too enthusiastically online during the anti-immigrant riots. the internet today isn't the same as the internet 15 years ago
the rules aren't because the mods care very much. the rules are so than the website doesn't get taken down and/or the owners/maintainers aren't subject to serious legal penalties
Being happy and celebrating are not so different.
I posted in c/news about the mods being overzealous in deleting posts in these threads, and it was deleted for rule 6. Fair enough. However, I have looked over the modlogs for the post regarding this shooting and the number of posts that are being deleted for relatively innocuous comments is excessive.
Being happy a bad person got shot is not : Glorifying Violence, Celebrating Violence, nor Inciting Violence.
More over, If this were someone like Kim Jong-Un, or Putin who had been shot, I find it hard to believe the mods would be nearly so overzealous to delete comments saying in essence "good, he had it coming".
I don't think the mods are intentionally skewing the conversation as much as they have an unexamined bias.
It is okay for people to be happy a bad thing happened to a bad person. Other people are okay to disagree with this statement. Let the discussion (within reason) happen. If you aren't prepared to moderate a discussion, turn off comments on your magazine.
Mods are always gonna be mods. It is the personality that is required to do a thankless job for no pay.
That said: Understand that the major social networks have legal departments. A lemmy instance is a few people working out of their basements who suddenly get a letter from the French version of the FBI asking for details about someone who is TOO happy about a politician getting got.
Best case scenario? That instance now needs to make a "public" stand for when they will and won't cooperate with law enforcement and there is no way that ends well. Worst case scenario? The instance is considered an accomplice.
I enjoy lurking at resetera because holy shit. And it was hilarious to watch the mass ban waves of the "Socialism OT" members who had spent years outright calling for people to arm themselves and fight governments. And it started within weeks of people finding out that resetera had been sold to some major corporation (I want to say MMO Network?).
Mod: The moderators of this community - and those of other communities - have an easy-to-verify track record for removing any calls for violence and encouraging/celebrating past violence, even directed at despicable individuals. This does not depend on the target of the violence. It is a part of the terms of service of the server, which are not determined by the moderators of this community. Users also agree to these terms by accessing lemmy.world (I am not a lawyer - please contact an admin if you have legal questions).
i have removed comments that were celebrating the death of hamas and hezbollah leaders so i do commit to being fair in my removals
Super disappointed mods can't parse people not being surprised or feeling something was deserved as a consequence of their actions, and advocating the violence.
My comment that got removed was "can't imagine why this happened", which neither calls for, nor celebrates violence, but expresses that the conditions leading to such an action, in our dystopian US are predictable, have happened before countless times in history all over the world.
The inability to acknowledge the fault of the powerful actors and system that created such conditions and utter lack of consequences for the rich and powerful in the US are what caused such responses for an agreeably horrific act. The issue that won't go away, on Lemmy or anywhere else, and oversimplifying the above to "advocating violence" is disingenuous if deliberate, and idiotic if accidental.
Any living creature can't be the standard. That's just absurdly Broad. By this argument you can't have cooking communities. In any form against any living creature? I can't cut down a tree on this website apparently.
He's not a living creature anymore.
Damnnnnnn I love Lemmy
Was he ever really a human being?
Lol
How was my comment about jury nullification against tos?
They'll never answer that one.
It is interesting. Calls for violence are against the TOS. There is actually nothing in the TOS or the sidebar rules about "Celebrating Violence".
I mean that is fine and all, and frankly it is a good policy. Just kinda bad form to be deleting so many posts for something that isn't in the TOS.
Seems the mods have added additional interpretations to the TOS and then used that as justification to delete a whole lot of the conversation.
Anyways. I like violent video games. Is that celebrating violence, how about football? Can I like football here?
You can, but don't talk about boxing or mma.
There's a distinction between ending evil and ending life. The former is worthy of celebration whether or not the latter overlaps with it.
Wish I would have known how over zealous .world moderation was gonna be when I signed up. Go take a nap for a couple days.
Same. I’d explain why but I don’t want to be (shadow) banned.
It depends on the community. For example, the Political Memes community of .world is incredibly dumb when it comes to moderation and I've been moderated for "misinformation" for saying that a party sending billions in support of genocide means that the party supports genocide, but that's an instance of moderators trying to enforce their opinions through the moderation system. At least in this case it's out of an abundance of caution since there's such a stigma against violence and even messages simply celebrating it can be misconstrued as encouraging it.
Uncritical support for AIDS as the immune system is responsible for the deaths of millions of bacteria every day.
I completely understand the "calling for violence" part of the rules. The celebrating part is a bit much, though.
💦😋🥾💦
I think something had to die for my turkey sandwich, and I would kill again for another.
I hope you step on a Lego.
This is not a Nazi Bar problem. This is a mod being overly sensitive to people being happy about someone getting what they deserve after making millions of peoples lives harder. You trying to turn this into a non-violence issue is just pathetic.
We have a justice system so that we don't need to use vigilante violence. Make no mistake, this man was a mass murderer. He was personally responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people. But because of our corrupt legal and justice system, he was able to get away with it.
We no longer have any legal method of holding the wealthy and powerful to account for their crimes. The courts are crooked and the politicians bought and paid for. Again, we implemented courts and a justice system so that we didn't have to use vigilante violence. In olden times, if someone killed your loved one, it was perfectly acceptable to kill them in revenge. We in time implemented a formal legal system to prevent this kind of retributive vigilante violence.
Well, what do you think happens when you break that legal system so thoroughly that the wealthy can no longer be held to account? At that point, your society goes right back to the law of might makes right.
It's actually very similar to the violence that occurs between gangs. If you're a drug dealing mafioso, and someone cheats you in a drug deal, you can't turn to the courts for relief. So instead, you have to use violence.
The people no longer have any real way of holding the wealthy responsible, even for literally murdering innocent people. We're going to see a lot more such attacks in the future. And it will not end until we reinstate the old peace treaty that is our justice system.
CEOs have not been held accountable for their actions by the legal system. This is inevitable with the way the United States is set up
If this happens to two or three more CEOs over the next couple of months, they'll change their position on gun control, not change their behaviors that made somebody do this. And "they're coming for our guns" morons would find a way to not only excuse it, but fully support it, at least at first.
If this happens to multiple CEOs, companies will just implement secret-service style security for the C-suite. Wouldn't even be a rounding error in CEO compensation.
Absolutely this, this is a nucleation point for disarming the citizenship. Step one for a dictatorship.
Say what? Nearly every CEO who is willing to talk about firearms is already pushing for more Gun Control with both their words and their money. The obvious exceptions are of course Firearm CEOs and maybe Elon Musk.
Seriously, have you ever looked at whose funding all of the Gun Control efforts and Politicians in this country? It's a veritable whose who of Democrat Billionaires and CEOs.
NYS already banned suppressors for the plebes. Only cops can buy them in NYS. And its highly unlikely they had a NYC permit, for carry, only cops get easy NYC permits, and also C execs like this guy who pays off the right people, in the correct amounts.
So, this means, it must have been a cop that did the shooting. Because it could have been an oligarch with the legal gun, but they couldn't get a suppressor in NYS.
they'll just define "our" as "voted republican" - EZ Clap
So then just buy illegal guns to carry out your crimes. Problem solved.
Are you under the impression that pro2a people are corporate shills? Lol the fuck
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
Hopefully this makes all those money grubbing assholes consider how many of the millions of people they've fucked over have access to firearms and their location.
There's an interesting book called Narconomics: How to run a drug cartel that goes into detail about why there's so much violence in the drug world. It all comes down to there not being a legal system where people can peacefully resolve disputes.
If Pepsi stole Coke's formula and brand name, Coke would sue them. But if a rival cartel infringes on your territory, you have no choice but to get to murdering.
Now, I don't know the motivations of why this healthcare CEO was shot - and I don't condone violence. But I will say that I see some strong parallels where it feels hopeless from a consumer point of view when dealing with insurance companies. The whole process, including the legal system, seems tailored to take away your power. So I'm not at all surprised that violence has occurred.