“What Israeli forces are doing in besieged North Gaza cannot be allowed to continue,” the human rights official said.
Israel could kill everyone left in Northern Gaza if its assault on the enclave continues, a United Nations relief official warned on Saturday
“Hospitals have been hit, and health workers have been detained. Shelters have been emptied and burned down. First responders have been prevented from saving people from under the rubble. Families have been separated, and men and boys are being taken away by the truckload,”
Msuya estimated that Israel’s actions in the north had killed hundreds and displaced tens of thousands. According to Al Jazeera, an Israeli siege on the north that began earlier in October has killed around 640.
“The Biden-Harris administration must stop the flow of U.S. weapons to Israel which constitutes a necessary step to halting Israel’s ongoing war crimes,” IMEU wrote on social media Saturday. “It’s time for an arms embargo now.”
If Israel actually completes its mission and kills every man, woman, and child in Palestine, would that make the western powers any more inclined to call it genocide?
Or they’ll say something like ‘well actually, it’s genoslaughter not genocide because israel didn’t mean to kill all the Gazan’s they just did so accidentally.’
This is so disgusting. I never wanted to visit Israel even if it was for $free, but now I have even less respect for those Zionist assholes, and I had low respect for them before.
"We will have to think about scheduling a call to plan a meeting to start having talks about perhaps organising a committee which would make a recommendation as to how we should go about getting ready to write a sternly worded press release (in which we won't criticise Israel too much)."
Most probably suspect it's genocide and know they, by not speaking out, at least support it passively.
But it just doesn't matter for their immediate or the near future, so nothing will happen. Thoughts and prayers...
I see two main culprits that enable Israel to eradicate the Palestinian people and their livelihood in manner and speed we see now. The US and germany.
Many other western political elites seem far more divided on the topic but probably fear the backlash of speaking out.
70% of the weapons come from the US and they will never stop to supply their FOB.
Democrats or republicans will veto everything and make it as hard as possible to even reach a clear global verdict on what happened and how to classify it.
Most of the remaining 30% come from germany.
Here the key argument is that Israel is worthy of unwavering support due to the historical fact of the holocaust and the inhumane acts inflicted on the Jewish population.
Scholz said recently that the security of Israel is a National interest of germany.
As a german I feel this too, although for me the state of Israel and the global jewish population we did unspeakable crimes to are not necessarily the same.
There are lines that can be crossed that limit my willingness of support. It's not unconditional and they crossed them. Israel crossed them, not the jews.
I also feel past and present crimes the jewish people had to endure can be used to understand why Israel is acting the way it does but it can't be a justification of their barbaric way of waging this war against Hamas.
In short, nothing will change. Sorry for the long reply, this shit really grinds my gears.
It was not ours to decide after the war but its an interesting thought. I'd like to see the outcome of that alternative timeline.
Many of the administrative positions were still filled with former Nazis. Most germans in denial of what happened.
Also the winning powers seemed far more interested in the spoils of war compared to a just but self-limiting gesture of goodwill.
Sketchy ground for such huge undertaking that would have made german willingness and acceptance paramount.
Also the first thing that comes to my mind is that this decision would jave encaged the victims with the perpetrators.
Tough deal to sell to the world.
I think germany is still in denial, i think part of the reason why germany is so opposed to even acknowledge palestinian genocide is because, to acknowledge it, is to acknowledge that the "israel solution" was inadequate.
On its core, the rise of hitler and persecution of jews were a result of racism. The economy fell and people started to blame the jews, it could just as easily have been another minority group.
You can actually see a similar behaviour in modern day germany, The economy went downhill because of a series of bad decisions before covid (over reliance on russian oil, closing all nuclear plants etc.) And the german population started to align themselves with neo nazi (like AfD), as evident from the last election. Neo-nazism now blames immigrants for all the german troubles.
Clearly whatever steps Germany (and the west in general) took, including the creation of israel, were not enough.
Feel free to correct me if i am wrong about anything.
Yeah and now our industrial gas tanks are filled with non-russian gas, we got one of the most stable energy grids in Europe, we import 2% of our energy from other countries (0.5% from the nuclear power france) and export some of it on good days and energy prices & inflation rates are on a pre-2022 level. Thanks to the Green party.
Then we got rich populists like Merz, Söder, Linnemann, Spahn or Schäffler who are in close ties with the fossil fuel industry (The Republic, BlackRock, Heritage Foundation, Atlas Network, Heartland Institute, Koch Brothers) whose only target during their electoral campaigns are the Greens, immigrants and people on welfare payments. Blaming the Greens for political decissions they supported themselves while they were in power for 16 years (nuclear power exit, end of combustion engines, heating without fossil fuels and fricking bottle caps). Instead of working together with the progressives against the neo nazis from AfD they proclaim they're the solution against their uprising by fighting against the progressives. Weimar Republic reloaded.
All while our political imbecile citizens are believing their talking points and the smear campaigns of "Welt" and "Bild" (funded by above listed networks) that the Greens will be our downfall. I would leave this stupid country if I had the money.
Right-Wing Parties are only a concern in the low populated Eastern German parts. I assure you, in Bavaria we have not forgotten Munich 1972. When Israel took care of the heads behind it pretty much every German applauded.
na klar, wofür haben die Freien Wähler bei der letzten wahl nochmal so viele punkte dazugewonnnen? iirc waren das inkl. AfD am ende +10% für verkappte nazis.
bleib mal locker im Hofbräuhaus.
The real reason is that Zionists and Western powers wanted to use Israel to colonize and subjugate the region and also solve Europe's "Jewish problem", a new iteration of the Crusader states.
“We should there form a portion of a rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilization as opposed to barbarism. We should as a neutral State remain in contact with all Europe, which would have to guarantee our existence.”
-- Theodor Herzl
the christians at the time thought that by sending jews to the holy land will bring forth their messiah and the world will end.
europe (including britain) had a lot of anti-semites, and the creation of israel meant that there would be less jews in europe.
britain wanted a buffer state/intermediate state between themselves and india so they can influence and subjugate those regions more effectively.
The only jew in the british parliament opposed both the declaration and herzl's idea of zionism. In fact jewish community themselves opposed zionism but then hitler came to power which caused many jews to change their opinions.
Probably not for a few decades at least. It's only when today's college aged people take power that it'll get labeled as such. And even then, it's not a guarantee.
Heh. The fact we live in a world where terrible tragedies become profitable media in a few generations is a mixed bag. It's good that people know about it, but it's sad that it is something to profit from.
That defence holds about such water as a colander. There is so much evidence to the contrary that it boggles the mind. They have bombed hospitals, schools, bomb shelters, kettled the entire population into a tiny parcel of land in the southernmost tip of the country while they finish levelling the rest of Palestine, and stopped all aid, journalists, water, and food entering the country. And then to add insult to injury they bomb the safe zones.
A country's right to defend itself does not extend to this. This isn't defence.
Do they expect the civilians with blown off limbs in bombed-out hospitals to walk to these not-so-safe zones? How do they expect the entire population to survive in these cramped conditions with no access to critical food, water, and medicine heading into winter? (Hint: they don't.)
In all the other cases of schools, hospitals, safe zones: these were used by combatants for military purposes. These are warcrimes in itself and make attacking these now military objectives legal under international humanitarian law.
That said. There are also war crimes committed by Israeli soldiers and careless destruction.
Hint: they don't.
For many months we have heard claims of imminent death starvation of millions and that evacuation from Rafah would be impossible. These claims didn’t materialize.
Yes, the humanitarian situation for Gazans is dire. Why are the refugees not allowed to flee the war zone like in every other war?
Hamas and its ilk could stop this war at any time by releasing the hostages. As long as the hostages remain in captivity and rockets are fired at Israel, they have a good claim to continue the war. Hamas is ideologically convinced any number of dead Palestinians is acceptable, if Israel is damaged somewhat at least.
For many months we have heard claims of imminent death starvation of millions and that evacuation from Rafah would be impossible. These claims didn’t materialize
Just thousands of deaths from starvation, not millions, totally not a genocide. /s
So…even if they didn’t, you’d be fine with the hospitals, schools, safe zones, etc? Just because of one fuckin flimsy ass excuse from Israel? And have you seen proof of every school, hospital, et al that’s been bombed being used by Hamas? Are you not asking for proof of that? But when the people are being fuckin slaughtered, you need proof that EVERY SINGLE FUCKIN safe haven had been leveled before you fuckin stand up for the people facing a goddamn genocide? Wheat the fuck is wrong with you
I have heard from attacks on schools, hospitals, and safe zones. These were all used by combatants and thus legal military objectives under international humanitarian law.
I have never even heard of bomb shelters existing for civilians in Gaza.
These people don’t have bomb shelters. WHERE THEY WERE TOLD BY ISRAEL TO SHELTER, THEY WERE FUCKING SLAUGHTERED. THAT IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM YOU GODDAMN MONSTER
Don't engage with troll. They are either bot, or have no plan to engage in any form of discussion instead utilities your time, to read news or maybe send letter or share the news with people around you. It is more productive to stop the genocide than talking to a bot or an idiot online.
You only seem to have an emotional and not a factual understanding of the situation.
If combatants use a safe zone for military purposes, the military objectives can be attacked legally. Safe zones are for civilians, not for combatants. Combatants abusing safe zones for military purposes like launching and storing missiles are the ones violating the safe zone first and thus legitimizing attacks.
Excuse me for getting emotional over a fucking genocide. I find it strange that you’re not emotional over a clear as day genocide happening with all the proof in the world in front of our very eyes. And how you’re defending genocide as just a necessary step because of some flimsy ass excuse I simply don’t understand. I’m a human, so I tend to, y’know, passionately dislike genocide. What makes you defend genocide, if you don’t mind my asking?
I wonder if people were dismissed during the holocaust for getting emotional about the slaughter of innocent people.
I wonder if people were dismissed during the holocaust for getting emotional about the slaughter of innocent people.
They were, people were twisting themselves in knots to deny the absolute horrors being conducted in the Holocaust and by Imperial Japan. People from the allied nations. There are people doing it to this day.
For many months we have heard claims of imminent death starvation of millions and that evacuation from Rafah would be impossible. These claims didn’t materialize.
I mean, evacuation is impossible at this point isnt it? Where would they go? Back to the levelled north? Force their way into Egypt? The fact that they aren't all dead yet doesn't disprove that Israel's intent is to cause it, they just haven't finished yet.
Oh sorry, I misread the article. It turns out Israel bombed a school that was situated in a refugee camp. It was being used as a shelter, that's much better.
But I looked into it and apparently Gaza doesn't have bomb shelters, so it would be hard for Israel to bomb them, I suppose. Too expensive to build while embargoed and not prioritised by their government, I will strike that from my comment.
Hamas managed to build hundreds of kilometers of underground tunnels and bunkers to protect combatants and military infrastructure. Civilians just aren’t allowed in there. That’s where the priorities of Gaza‘s government lie. They don’t give a shit if civilians die, if they can continue the futile attempt to destroy Israel by force of arms. Militant resistance takes precedence over building decent lives. That’s the whole reason Gaza is so fucked.
Yeah, Hamas are bastards. They have not allowed elections and ruled dictatorially for a generation, and do not have a right to think they represent the people of Gaza. The innocent civillian Gazan population don't deserve to suffer as a result. Hamas have done horrible things, not building necessary bomb shelters from an oppressive Israel is one of them. The lack of bomb shelters in Gaza does not mean you or anyone should condone bombing of a civilian population. They had the nerve to talk to NYT to say they were getting PTSD from running over too many unarmed Gazan civilians with a bulldozer. Actions like this make Netanyahu, and the complicit IDF and encourageable Israeli voting population bastards.
They aren't reaching military objectives. They are bombing schools and refugee camps with the intention of forcing the Palestinians to either leave Gaza or die.
We don't live in a Marvel-comic world of good versus bad. This is a terrorist organisation keeping a country hostage, versus a de facto autocrat with a doctrine to ethnically cleanse and reclaim Palestine for just inhabitation by jewish people.
In a population of 2.3 million, there are estimated between 20-30,000 Hamas fighters.
So far, Israel have killed 41,0000 Palestinians since last year. Going back further, Israel have killed 138,000, Palestinians since 1948 as they have slowly reclaimed Palestine.
There are utilitarian stances you can take on inadvertently killing civillians to achieve military targets with the aim of ending the war sooner, but this is just genocide.
Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, and has been the one preventing a ceasefire.
De-development via the Gaza Occupation
Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.
Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.' In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.
Page 105
Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986. (Arguably, the economic terms of the Gaza—Jericho Agreement modify the situation only slightly.')
page 240
In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60 percent over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50 percent decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (com- bined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.
Page 402
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy
Blockade, including Aid
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.
After the 'disengagement' in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of 'dual-use' Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.
The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
During the current war, Hamas officials have said that the group does not want to return to ruling Gaza and that it advocates for forming a government of technocrats to be agreed upon by the various Palestinian factions. That government would then prepare for elections in Gaza and the West Bank, with the intention of forming a unified government.
Intentionally utilizing the presence of civilians or other protected persons to render certain areas immune from military attack is prohibited under international law. Amnesty International was not able to establish whether or not the fighters’ presence in the camps was intended to shield themselves from military attacks. However, under international humanitarian law, even if one party uses “human shields”, or is otherwise unlawfully endangering civilians, this does not absolve the opposing party from complying with its obligations to distinguish between military objectives and civilians or civilian objects, to refrain from carrying out indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, and to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians and civilian objects.
Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.
Hamas gained popularity and notoriety during the Oslo peace process by suicide bombings and being fundamentally opposed to any peace deal with Israel. They only exist because of intransigence and inability to compromise among Palestinians.
Thats actually a tool of genocide. The whole point of creating the gas chambers was to create an efficient genocide machine. The guards who took the prisoners to the chambers were different from guards who took the bodies. The guards who interacted with the prisoners weren't allowed to decide who got to live and who did not.
All in all, the chambers gave the guards a sense of "we are just following orders" feeling thus lessening their guilt. Because no matter how cruel it is, the humans will feel guilt.
The calling for evacuation is also a similar tool to lessen the guilt of the soldiers. Afterall, those people who died were told to evacuate therefore their death is on their hands.
There are warcrimes going on for sure. Some civilians are shot on accident, negligently, or even on purpose. However there are no large groups of Palestinians collected, made to dig their own graves, and then shot en masse. That simply doesn’t happen.
The Holocaust equivalence is completely detached from reality. It’s antisemitic to do this.
Einsatzgruppen killed far higher numbers per day.
However there are no large groups of Palestinians collected,
"Hardly anybody died" When the genocides lie far in the past, denial is easier.
Some civilians are shot on accident, negligently, or even on purpose.
"It wasn't intentional" Disease and famine-causing conditions such as forced labor, concentration camps and slavery (even though they may be manufactured by the perpetrator) may be blamed for casualties.
The Holocaust equivalence is completely detached from reality. It’s antisemitic to do this.
"We are the real victims" They deflect attention to their own casualties/losses, without historical context.
Refugees leaving a war zone until the war is over is common in every war. However somehow Palestinians have to stay in the dangerous areas, according to western leftists.
Palestine's border crossings are controlled by Israel. Early on, Israel stopped allowing border crossing. To the point that a major international concern was the inability for any aid trucks to enter. Additionally, movement within the West Bank has been heavily restricted by Israel's checkpoints. And Israel has for a very long time actively denied Palestinian refugees the right to return to their homes if they do leave. If it is difficult to understand why this sort of forced movement and controlled borders is an issue, I encourage you to read up on the Trail of Tears and South African Apartheid.
And Egypt's borders were not completely open. In part, because they did were not aiding Israel doing a forced displacement of Palestinian citizens. As a reminder, the forcible removal of a people, in whole or in part, is one of the kinds of genocide. Perhaps you might want to consider why you're advocating for the forced displacement of an entire people. Why Egypt has not fully opened its Gaza border for fleeing Palestinians
Its sad how western colonial imperialists will try describe ethnic cleansing as a good or necessary thing.
As I suggested, the idea is and always has been to force palestinians out from Palestine, so they can be denied the right to ever return to thier homeland
In the exact way Israel has done to thousands of palestinians before and were all supposed to pretend we can't see exactly what we're looking at.
Also, "war" implies either side could win. This isn't a war, its ethnic cleansing, for the express purpose of illegally colonising stolen land.