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sprigatito_bread @lemmy.world

I avoid approaching women in public because I believe it's inappropriate. My parents say that it's a necessary skill. Who is right?

The other day, my parents asked me (22M) if there were any women that I find attractive (I guess because they're paranoid about me being gay lol) and I told them yes, there's a fair number of women that I've seen in public that I've found attractive.

They asked me, "Do you talk to any of them?" and I said "No??? It's inappropriate to approach women in public unless you have business with them."

I told them that it is only appropriate for a man to talk to a woman he doesn't know when the social situation is explicitly designed for meeting strangers—dating apps, hobby groups, meeting friends of friends, etc. In my view, cold approaching women you don't know just because you're attracted to them is harassment.

My parents told me that I'm being ridiculous and making excuses because I'm nervous. They are adamant that I need to learn to approach women or else I will never find a partner. I told them that times have changed and this is disrespectful and potentially predatory behavior along the lines of unsolicited flirting and catcalling. Approaching women is a violation of their personal space and could make them feel very uncomfortable, especially if they feel like they don't have an easy way out.

My parents are almost 60 and they are very conservative, so they don't exactly follow progressive discourse, and I feel like they're super out of touch on this as a result. Particularly, my mom tends to strike up conversations with other women in public, and she's skeptical when I tell her that I can't do the same thing because I'm a man and would be viewed as a potential predator.

But I also don't get out much, which makes me second-guess how distorted my understanding of the social world is from reality. My parents are like a broken clock, and sometimes they DO have a point about something despite 90% of their opinions being insane. Maybe there is a more nuanced reality that I'm not picking up on.

So I wanted to ask here. Are my parents out of touch? Am I out of touch? Are we both wrong? I want to know your opinion.

267 comments

  • Human existence is becoming more and more controlled as we lose our autonomy. And either waste our time broken alone or slaving away at a job that doesn't benefit us. Other countries have things like third spaces and culture unlike the United States which has no culture. We don't have the time or the money for culture. So what I'm trying to say is you have to make time to have genuine experiences doing things you like to do in order to stumble upon someone and have a casual conversation. Even these interactions are monetized via apps or whatever. Ad revenue. And these companies that get in between us and our natural experiences are also the same companies that blow up children in other countries. Other than that it is always running to or running from something. The Capitalist meddle too much in our lives. Everyone I know has had divorced parents. And now they want to replace us with artificial intelligence, which is really just our collective work and our human echo of recorded history and contribution. If they literally could just pick us up and bang our body parts together, they would. There is a reason why the birth rate is declining. Things are the way they are for good reasons. We are so separated from nature that we can't feel each other's vibes. I think the kids these days call it vibes. We are all just codependent and not self-actualized. We have lost our sovereignty, our autonomy, and now we just kind of are pushed and pulled in directions to the point where possibly we disassociate. You can go along with all this stuff for a while, but eventually it just snaps in your mind breaks. And they think they're going to draft us to go fight another World War. Just throw me in a box. It's just the same as the other box that I live in. I mean, what kind of future do our future children have? America is not a sexy place. Capitalism is not a sexy system. And now the whole world is capitalistic in nature. There are no alternatives anymore. and the Capitalist have gotten better and better at manipulating all of us. We don't have the time or the money to even plan and fight back. I'm old enough now to see the patterns between the two political parties in the United States. And I will tell you, unless you're kind of like a cult follower of your political party, they will just disappoint you and miss the mark by a mile. They don't work for us. They work for the shareholders. So all that kids have to deal with these days. All these elements, even though they might not acknowledge them, they play a role in mating rituals. You shouldn't have to run up to pretty women to get them to talk to you, or vice-inversal. Every good experience I have had has been through some form of leisure. The word I can think of that reminds me of the current state of things is cringe or icky. Picking up on people's body language. Things that are subtle that take time to grow like a garden. Building relationships, maintaining those relationships, having meaningful conversation. And when trust is built, maybe let loose. I don't know man, it just gets harder. And then you stop caring. Do you want hope? Or the truth?Your parents sold you out and their only concern is if you're gay.

  • Woman here: I'm not annoyed if a person I don't know talks to me, as long as a) they don't interrupt something I'm doing to have conversation and b) they read my body language and fuck off again the moment it's clear I'm not interested. But asking me questions when I have my headphones in to talk about inane shit while I roll my eyes? Nah.

  • It's pretty clear what the consensus is here. Yes, talk with women. You can even (politely) hit on women you fancy. Based on your statement about yourself it's unlikely you would be pushy and threatening if she said no, but still, just understand when to stop.

    Next question is how to get there from where you are. You're scared you would be seen as a threat, harassing women just by talking to them out of the blue. So you doubtless have little experience talking with women. That's where you are.

    I see two possible paths to take. Which one is right depends on why you feel that way. If it's an emotional issue, like if you (for instance) start shaking and sweating at the thought of walking up to a woman and introducing yourself, then maybe start by talking with a therapist. They can be really helpful. On the other hand if you are just nervous because you don't know how to talk with a woman then look into learning how to make small talk. It's actually a skill. It's something you can learn. And once you have learned it and practiced it enough that you are comfortable with it, then approaching and talking with a woman is just about starting and having a conversation. You can even practice with guys if it makes you more comfortable. A quick google search produces a bunch of good ideas on how to start.

    Now you have homework. Learn how to carry a conversation. Learn to make people feel comfortable around you. Learn to actually be interested in other people. It shows and it makes a difference.

    EDIT: In a reply to another comment you mentioned severe violence in your childhood and the resultant fear as a major deterrent in approaching people. That's definitely something to see a therapist about. You can work through stuff like that in time. And you'll be amazed how much more free you feel once you have.

  • Both of you are right and wrong, it's not so black and white.

    You absolutely can make friends, chat with people at the bus stop, strike up convos at bars, the local ski resort, bike park, etc. Friendships can naturally blossom into relationships (or remain friendships, which is healthy and natural too).

    You can't approach people and immediately ask them out, it feels weird and unappreciated (and that goes both ways, I've had a complete 180° role reversal and it was still weird and gross).

    You're young, you have plenty of time, and honestly the weirdest thing about all this is that your parents are worried you're gay, like there's something wrong with that. There's barely any differences between genders, people overhyped the shit out of it in church, tbh.

    Anyways, any% dating really doesn't work, and I feel like your parents should know that. Don't even try for dating, everyone can sense desperation. Just dgaf and focus on having fun and making friends. Love will naturally evolve out of good friendships.

  • Honestly, as a woman, I think it’s more about knowing when it’s appropriate to talk to people.

    It’s okay if people hit me up at the park or the bar. It’s not okay when I’m doing my groceries in a hurry, or when I’m crossing the street 😆 and if you get “rejected” (sometimes it’s not a hard rejection, my social schedule is just already full), just take it well and go talk to someone else.

    I don’t think this is rocket science, and apart from some teenagers whistling me from across the street (which I always pretend I can’t hear), almost all adults get this right.

  • I think if you talking to another person in a public place is automatically seen as a predator we failed as humans. Might as well be robots...it's absolutely a good thing to talk to people

  • I'm forty, so a different generation than your parents, but I still grew up and had my first dating experiences before the internet. Online dating wasn't really a thing here until I was in my early twenties.

    At least where I grew up the guys who randomly approached girls to ask them out were seen as creepy even back in the 90s. I and everyone I knew met partners through activities like sports clubs, parties, bars etc. (I'm not from the US, so people from my school started going to bars pretty early). While there wasn't a big discourse around men approaching women in public (or none that reached my little town), we did have some guys in town who'd just walk up to girls on the street and ask them out and the consensus was that they were weird and should be avoided.

    I met all my partners so far through activities. My first boyfriend was a regular at the same student café and we ended up sitting next to each other during quiz night. I met guys I had dates with in uni - sitting next to each other during lectures and talking about the Prof, going to the same presentation or cooking night etc. None of them "approached me" in the sense of coming up to me and asking "can I have your number" with zero context. We chatted, had an interesting conversation. At the end we exchanged contact information to meet for a coffee, usually without any expectation of it being a date. When coffee went well, someone would ask the other out on a proper date. No approaching, no deciding within a few seconds wether you want to date someone. Just casually getting to know each other before asking for more.

    I also met my husband that way. We went to the same event, talked, had a lot in common. We met the next day to continue a discussion about a certain topic we were both interested in. That's when things started getting flirty and by the end we made plans to meet for a real date. I don't even remember who asked whom, we were both heavily flirting with each by the time we talked about seeing each other again so it was very obvious the next meeting would be a date. He didn't ask me out out of nowhere or hit on me, we were just getting to know new people and eventually we started flirted somewhere along the line.

  • Your instincts are probably well placed. Obviously different people will have different preferences and reactions in this regard, but you're better off getting to know people in a friendly manner than just for the sake of finding a partner. Learning how to strike up conversations with strangers and leave them wanting for more is useful, but that's about all I'd say your parents are right about.

  • Some people enjoy casual chat with random people, and some people find it annoying. There's no right or wrong answer. It's definitely not the only way to meet romantic partners, though, especially these days.

  • You are right, your parents are out of touch. Stick to your guns on this.

  • I think the bigger issue here is that you are obviously uncomfortable with the idea of approaching people in public and your parents are treating this as irrelevant and something you are supposed to just force yourself to do it anyway despite feeling like the situation is wrong and threatening. You shouldn't need to justify not wanting to do that by appealing to some kind of cultural authority about what is acceptable to society.

    Personally even as a man it normally freaks me out when strangers approach me in public. It just feels like a very unusual, unexpected and potentially unsafe kind of circumstance, almost never something positive, there's no way I would trust such a person, so I'm not going to do that to others because it's like I would be inflicting that on both of us simultaneously, and that would of course come through in any interaction I attempted. How could I expect them to be receptive to that when I would never be myself? People may argue, that's the wrong way to feel and so it doesn't matter, replace that attitude with a better one, as if they themselves could easily substitute a totally different way of being for how they are.

    If you need an invitation in order to feel safe in a social situation, I would say it is ok to demand that people respect that and not mock you for it.

  • In my view, cold approaching women you don’t know just because you’re attracted to them is harassment.

    I don't agree with this. You can approach women in public and talk to us without it being harassment. If you approach someone and they tell you to leave them alone and you don't or they're obviously uncomfortable and you persist then it's harassment.

    For some context: I'm not as old as your parents but I'm older than you (I'm late 30s).

  • Your parents are right. It is absolutely a skill that you should learn. The 'times have changed' crowd just haven't stepped up to the new level of difficulty.

    It is not wrong to strike up a conversation with a stranger so long as the setting is appropriate and you pick up on the clues they give on whether the interaction is welcome or not. That is the skill you're learning.

    Whether it is technically 'necessary' is debatable, but it is antisocial to flat out avoid doing so by definition.

  • You're not wrong, but you've got a bit of an extreme take on it. I think you and your parents may have different thoughts on what it means to "approach" a woman though. I'm going to use "flirt" to refer to talking to a woman with intent of seeing if they would make a good partner for you and just "talk" to indicate just being friendly with someone.

    it is only appropriate for a man to talk to a woman who doesn’t know when the social situation is explicitly designed for meeting strangers

    No, it's fine to talk to strangers of any gender in public. Approaching them and flirting with them is not. As long as you can roughly understand when you're making someone uncomfortable and stop it, you're not going to come off as a creep/predator. Stuck in a lineup in a store? Chat with someone beside you, maybe commiserate about how long the line is. If you want to flirt with them, then yes the situations you mentioned are definitely the places to do that.

    (sort of an aside: whether "meeting friends of friends" is an appropriate situation to flirt with someone you just met is still situation dependent)

    They are adamant that I need to learn to approach women or else I will never find a partner.

    Approaching women in random public spaces with the intent of finding a partner is also a pretty bad idea. While it could work, it's definitely creep/predator behaviour so I avoid it. It's very likely to make them uncomfortable, since they're just trying to do their thing not get hit on. This can easily be harassment, though I'm on the fence on whether it's always harassment.

    Personally I like to flip the genders on situations like this and ask if I'd want to be the other person in this situation. It's worth keeping in mind that woman have way more statistical reasons to be weary/wary of any interaction with men, though. Regardless, e.g. if some woman was beside me in line and started chatting with me, I'd be fine with it. If some woman came up to me and complimented my shirt, I'd be fine with it. If some woman came up to me, complimented my shirt, and then asked for my number I'd be weirded out (I don't know you, lady). If some woman came up to me and asked me to take out my earbuds to commiserate about how long the line is, I'd be annoyed that I'm missing my music.

  • I'm like a dozen years older than you, and still have this conversation with my parents about jobs. They want me to cold call people and stalk them and stuff. Really wild stuff.

    Your parents are wrong in basically every way. Except, yeah, you should be capable of cold approaching anybody. Not to sexually harass them, but for normal things like, "excuse me have you seen a grey glasses case around here?"

    Your parents are not out of touch entirely, as this is a culture thing. Largely a generational one, but still, an existing culture. I personally do not believe it good, but I'm also somewhat like you, except 3,000% queer, poly, and engaged. Sometimes I wish guys would just show up and shoot their shots. Be respectful and accept defeat, but still shoot them. Years ago (when I was about 25), I used to work sort of near a bar and this random dude from a bar somehow made his way to me, working, which was, again, fairly far away by foot. And he REALLY wanted to take me home, putting on all the charm and offers. Which was flattering and all, but I wasn't interested and was forced to steadily increase my level of rejections, plus I was still working. My really cool boss apparently overhead and saw a bit of it, and after the guy finally left (honestly like 30 minutes of him trying), we talked a bit about it and had a good laugh. The guy really just couldn't take a hint. Luckily though, he was a little guy and where I worked was very open and very well lit and so there was no threat.

    I think that there's a time and place for everything. That you need to be comfortable in being yourself, and have your own drive and reasons for the things you do. Your parents ARE trying to help you, but often exacerbate their kids by pushing too hard or not putting ANY effort to learn or meet their kids even halfway.

    And then you have to take into account that, yeah, people really ARE all different. I know girls who wouldn't want to be cold approached at all, for any reason. I know guys that way, too.

    But I also know people that wish they'd be swept off their feet by a price charming or hulk or something. Honestly, I'm kinda that way, but with the duality that as much as I fantasize the forceful, having it be by somebody I don't accept is terrifying and horrifying. And that's not on any one specific thing - people are weird and have all their own unique, weird, internal, intuitive flags and needs. Be it a political alignment, a philosophy, an interest, an appreciation, an open mind, wanderlust, a sexual dynamic, a certain look, a certain feature, a familiarity, an unfamiliarity, for them to be monog or poly, a smell, certain kinds of armpits, tabs vs spaces, etc, whatever.

    We are all different, is my point.

    Different strokes for different folks, I guess. And you, as it seems, are not a seeker type. So, you should focus on what you want in a partner and who you are and want to be. You can listen to your parents a little, but realize that, they, too, besides from being your parents, are just some random ass people with some opinions they've formed by their own unique vision, through their own unique bodies and personalities - what works/worked for them may ONLY work for them, and that's fine. It doesn't make it better or worse than what works for you. I say, try it, at least once, and be prepared to apologize, and then learn from it. You're only young once.

    The key is to be respectful.

    Also, have you tried... 🫴 femboys? ;)

  • Personally I think everyone is wrong here, but none of it in a mean or jerky way, just in perspective .

    For your parents, it's definitely a different vibe now, we need to be more socially conscious about walking up to a woman, we should understand that that is inherently a dangerous place for a woman and she is likely on her guard.

    That being said, you shouldn't be afraid to speak to women either, that is likely just as bad. Women are just people, they have like and dislikes, and you should talk to them the same way you would anyone.

    So, I guess what I'm saying is that the days of pickup lines and sauntering over are gone. But there's absolutely nothing wrong striking up a conversation either, and in fact I encourage it. Notice things, maybe they're wearing a band T-shirt of a band you like, maybe they have a cool sticker on their phone or laptop, show interest. Don't be afraid of them.

  • If you don't try you won't get, I'm pretty direct but I have friends who are way way worse than I am.

    I generally don't try unless I get at least a smile and/or eye contact held in my direction but I do think most women like to know if they looking attractive even if they aren't interested.

    Anyone who takes offense over expressing an interest would have been horrible to date anyway in my opinion.

267 comments