Hanging out with my nieces/nephews I now understand most the discipline I received as a child was most likely because I was being annoying and nothing to do with right or wrong.

Sometimes being annoying is doing something wrong. If a kid is deliberately being disruptive after repeatedly being told not to, then yeah, they're doing something wrong.

You are correct (here comes the but) but often times that acting out isn't just to be annoying. As a kid, being disruptive is sometimes the only way you can get the attention of your adult. We treat kids like anything outside of their basic needs is unimportant.

Not wanting to lecture anyone I'll leave it at that.
- I agree wholeheartedly.
  
  actual addition to conversation
  
  The only instinct a child has to get attention is to be disruptive. Eventually they learn patience, better verbiage, and how to time their interactions with others. Time isn't really a concept yet and things are almost an "on/off" switch.
  
  Hunger doesn't exist during playtime until Hunger is activated, in which case, Hunger is all that exists. Hunger can only be eliminated with help as the cookies remain furiously out of reach. HELP!
  
  "Attention-seeking behavior" is "hey I need help with something" in their first language. It's up to the adults to figure out what's going on. Finding out why they are being disruptive helps, a lot. If they feel they're being ignored, work out spending time with them as reassurance... when convenient. If they're hungry, take a moment to procure a proper snack, and then they'll be satisfied. They might not even know what they need - do any of us really - and that's where listening can be helpful.
  
  Again, time not being easily explained such an on/off age.
  
  I am not a child therapist. I've just worked with too many "difficult" kids.
- Let’s not forget kids being super happy, having a great time, playing loudly, just enjoying life to the max, can be annoying.
Technically, being annoying is against the rules of the household. If the household reflect society's rules, the kid will learn valuable lessons, if not, the kid will learn the wrong lessons and will have to figure out on their own how those rules apply to real life l.

yep. the hardest part of being a parent is the patience to understand, and treat children as the underdeveloped humans they are. not everyone can do it

not everyone can do it

Also good to remember that almost nobody can do it everyday. It's definitely good to be consistent with one's approach, however all parents are human and will lose patience at times.
- That's why they say 'it takes a village to raise one child.'
  
  Kids don't have a brain filter. If they hear opera, they'll sing opera. If they hear cigarette commercials, that's what they'll sing.
  
  edit = I picked the most obnoxious songs I could think of. Didn't think I'd start a nostalgia/mandala effect thread
- true that... some of my darkest hours
I've fucked this up a few times and snapped at my kids for things that it isn't reasonable to expect of them. It's really hard when they show maturity beyond their age and developmental level in some aspects because you can almost forget they aren't fully developed and so the behavior can feel intentional. Like you get this flash of thinking, "I know the kid knows this is wrong," and if you aren't mindful in that moment, you can handle it wrong.

I have always made sure to calm myself down and then go talk to them about it. I apologize for losing my temper and, with an emphasis on how what I did was NOT ok, explain what I was feeling and why it made me react inappropriately. I'm pretty big on making them understand that adults are fallable and make mistakes, too.

I don't know...it feels like it's working well.
- We are taking the same approach and every word you said landed with me, matched my experience.
  
  I'll add that this is a VERY different strategy from the approaches taken by both my partner's and my parents.
  
  It's not easy, but I think we're raising better humans than ourselves. On days when it's exhausting and you're burned out and you feel like you can't do it, cling to that.
  
  You're doing great. It's worth it. Keep it up! 💚
- when they show maturity beyond their age
  
  When I was a kid I was always praised for being mature beyond my age.
  
  Really what I was, was beaten down, defeated, paranoid … and therefore quiet and non-aggressive.
  
  If a kid’s “maturity” consists of being quieter than the other kids, or perhaps of seeking out the company of adults rather than other kids, it’s possible that’s not maturity but rather a mask he’s wearing to avoid being attacked.
- That sounds like a great approach. I don't have kids and am still working on getting better that kind of reflection and communication.
- That's the approach I hope to take someday when I have kids. I'm glad to hear it seems to be working well.
not everyone can do it

more people should hear this before they decide to have children.
- but lets prevent anyone in the poorest sections of the united states from being able to make that call!
  
  yay america!
I try very hard to be honest when talking to my kids. To that end I often say “you are being annoying, stop it”

As an ADHD kid in the 60s and 70s, I was punished for existing by most teachers/school boards, other kids, and my father.

(That doesn't mean that I wasn't hella annoying, of course.)

That being said, I agree.

80s. Mom. Same otherwise. Only now understanding my dad didn't hate me for being ND. In the end, I think he envied that I learned to love myself in ways he couldn't as an ND nerd in the 50s, and having to fit in, or getting jumped.
- My dad was a drunken asshole who grew up in a tough world. He wasn't suited to fatherhood, and wasn't prepared to deal with a kid that was not him.
  
  I suspect he had his own ND issues that would have been even more difficult for him do deal with as a kid in the 40s and 50s, not to mention his parents.
  
  He was probably raised with the same kind of abuse I was, and more. I don't hate him.

I can't think of times I was punished for being annoying. My mom would just tell me to go outside if I was being annoying.

You had a good mom.