Americans kinda don't like pickpocketing rule

America used to have plenty of pickpocketing, but it's pretty much gone away for a few reasons:

Pickpocket apprenticeships have fallen by the wayside, and the actual skills to be able to pull this off are no longer taught to young people.
The rise of cashless payment norms reduce the reward for a successful pickpocket: canceled credit cards won't do anything for anyone.
America is a violent place, and it's easier to steal with violence or the threat of violence.
Other types of sneaky nonviolent theft have arisen, and things like identity theft or hacking or other fraud is an alternative outlet for those who might want to non-violently steal someone else's money.

All this will likely happen in Europe, as well. Just maybe a slower transition in the pockets where cash is still common (tourist destinations with international travelers).

Last bullet especially. Smash n grab is way too easy for criminals to pull off. Why risk confrontation when they can just snatch it from the car?

The indomitable American spirit. The right to BARE ARMS. Catch these fists.

If anyone deserves a good beating it's pickpockets.

Found the American!
(I say as an American)

Hyper individualism. A "fuck you I got mine" mentality. In a country where there is no safety net and you have to suffer for every dime so you can pay a rent just to exist.

Not entirely positive that this happened. I mean the Americans beating pickpockets. I'm sure it could have happened, but I live in France and was here and never heard about this...

There is a Medium post (https://scribe.rip/the-bad-influence/americans-in-paris-ready-to-rumble-with-pick-pocketers-f62b169abccd) but there isn't a single French news source (that I can easily find) related to this ever happening.

I agree, this is posted as news when it's likely anecdotal or even fabricated. It plays on the American self-image as John Wayne types, when everyone in Europe knows they're usually not very streetwise and walk around with maps and cameras talking loudly.
The other comments here are quick to jump in with opinions about how Americans don't take any shit, implying European simps just roll over for these pesky pilferers.
It's a real Don't Mess with Texas vibe based on another dodgy blog article.
- Don't Mess with Texas
  Not directly related to the content of your post, but I wanted to point out that "Don't Mess With Texas" originated as an pro-environment slogan encouraging Texans to pack out their own trash instead of littering in the wilderness and from their cars.
  Somehow it got coopted into some kind of Texan tough guy mentality (probably George W. Bush's fault). But at the beginning it was an environmental protection slogan.
- Americans have revealed themselves to be the biggest simps on the planet by rolling over for the Tangerine Turd. They are literally waiting for someone else to rescue them at this point, even while their own citizens are being thrown off cargo planes and into concentration camps.

Killing people over things do sound american lmao

Yeah but we're not talking about things here, we're talking about people coming up and taking from you, which is an act of violence to which one should certainly expect a response. Don't like the response? Keep your hands to yourself, simple as that.
- Theft is not violence just like property damage isn't violence and it's silliness to pretend they are.
- Yeah yeah let's punch gypsies. Killing people over things is ahrborrent.
  Bet you're a yank lmao. Scum

So in the U.S. people don't play pickpocketing, they just steal with guns in hand?

It's like when your Pokemon forgets 'scratch' to learn 'armed robbery', still a normal type move with the same effect, just more powerful.
- I think we should use Pokémon metaphors to describe all human interactions.

Probably easier way of defeating pick pockets is to carry a decoy or purse wallet with a painful surprise in it.

booby trapping is illegal and will get you in trouble while the pickpocket sues you into generational debt
- It took 20 years to catch the unabomber, and he was only caught because his brother recognized his writing and turned him in. That was a high profile case with a repeat offender so had way more resources thrown at it than would be thrown at a case of "I lost my fingers to a firecracker in a decoy wallet that I stole."
- Prove it. Police response time for non-emergancy issues could easily be 30+ minutes after which i would have moved on. Also investigatory resources for cases that aren't gift wrapped or murders are about nil.
  Civil cases for any meaningful non-small claims affair are going to start at 5000-10,000 and are basically unavailable for poor people. You aren't entitled to a free lawyer.
  Small claims is going to be for actual damages which are going to be about nil and are going to get you near no money and 15 minutes of fame.
  Here is what actually happens. Thief endures a small amount of pain and humiliation and fucks off.
  The actual risk isn't a hypothetical lawsuit it's that it leads to a fight where you might be injured.
- Eh. The person who makes the porch pirate videos hasn't gotten in trouble yet.

I often find Americans abroad to be quite charming in how American they are. Certainly, there are some that are obnoxious (and even their friendliness can be obnoxiousness in a way), but it can be quite endearing; Americans (especially the ones you meet while travelling) are so outgoing, and they're so keen to make connections with people. Like, is it cringe when an American says "oh my great great grandfather was Scottish", as if makes any difference at all that they are 1/16 Scottish? Yeah, somewhat. But after a friend explained to me that she sees it as coming from a deep desire to connect with other people, I began to see it as quite sweet.

It's part of why I grieve for what's going on in America right now. "American-ness" is a messy, mixed concept, and it would be unreasonable to ignore how much of that concept is deeply problematic. However, I feel that there is goodness within that concept, and the people in power at the moment seem hell bent on destroying or undermining what goodness exists there.

Plenty of us are just entitled psychopaths who ate too much lead paint as children, but I think you are correct that the rest of us are looking for connections. We come from a place where our traditions are shallow and our heritage is mostly just awful. We are not only looking to connect, but we are also essentially a bunch of orphans trying to desperately figure out who we are and where we belong.
I know most other people find it obnoxious, so I never really bring it up, but I do, it's also an invitation to tell me more about who you are and where you come from.
- As an (expat) American I have always felt a desire to connect with my heritage and experience the old world, despite never having the chance to. It feels crazy to me that people are overseas living where so much history played out, walking old streets past ancient walls and buildings, and often within a short journey to Neolithic sites and old ruins. There are quiet men herding sheep in a windswept field with mossy rock formations just chilling over there beside their prized lamb, Ollie. Americans removed themselves from all of that and over a couple of centuries it became something mythical and out of reach. We are essentially cut off from our own heritage, and are strangers to our own people, but we've been brought up in a culture that makes us quite alien to them when we do make the pilgrimage.
  It's kind of a sad thing, but I've been away from America long enough to understand why Europeans are so put off. Even the most left-leaning Americans need a lot of de-programming. I know I did. Now when my mother visits I am hyper-aware of how different we have become.

The pickpocket has already failed if the mark sees them, so not sure what was happening here. And people who are not used to pick pockets would not likely be looking out for them. Were they going around in groups wearing “Official Paris Olympics Pickpocket” hi-vis vests?

On the contrary, I'm American and agree with the experience of never having things taken off me, however I'm still always thinking about it when I'm in a crowded area, even more so when I'm traveling. If I was in Europe where I know pickpocketing is actually more of a problem, I'd be doubly cautious. All this and I'm not racist or xenophobic like a lot of Americans.
- Same. I try to stay vigilant about it, especially in crowded locations.
- I check my pockets like an ocd person at concerts.

Everyone who's had to deal with these grots: shoulda let the Americans finish the job

sidenote, the reading of a thread on twitter is hellish. Top to bottom be damned, it's like 3 different UIs in one.
Especially if there's a little addon from Tumblr at the end of something.
why isnt the reddit type formatting good enough?!

complaining on lemmy about twitters UI somehow earned elon musk two dollars

This is definitely a win for the Americans, beating the shit out of pickpockets is awesome.

Psycho
- Won't somebody think of the criminals? 🥺
Unfortunately it has an unintended consequence of criminals being more aggressive. If you as a potential pickpocket know they will throw hands regardless, you might as well start with maximum violence, save yourself some trouble.
Parisian pickpockets are quite unpleasant but at least you know they will not go beyond stealing your wallet while you're distracted.
- That's basically how mugging happens in the USA. There are still some finesse pickpocketers, but most of them are only going to rob you by pulling a weapon out, usually a gun, and immediately threatening harm if they don't get what they want.
  And in some parts of the country, a significant part of the population is armed and legally allowed to shoot back.
- Or just deciding your wallet wasn't worth getting punched in the face.
- Yes, of course, capitulation always works....
Yeah kill them when you're at it!
/s

It has little to do with Americans being violent. It comes down to population density. The US has a ton of places without the population density for pick pocketing to be effective.

People forget that a lot of the US is almost uninhabited.
Plus, personal space is a pretty big deal in most of the States. If you're too close, I'm not watching for pickpocketing. I'm too busy working out what the hell is going on in a panic because something is already wrong.
Sure we're a bit violent, but we're friendly first.
I'll say that I've never been to Europe, but I've been out and about in central and South America and as far as I know I've never run into a pickpocket. Maybe it's just a European thing.

I live in Canada, there's surprisingly little pickpocketing here too, and we don't have the same gun/weapon laws.

Like the Americans, we'll straight up beat you to a pulp if you try some shit, and we're very sorry about that.... You motherfucker.

If you want to steal shit, at least be moral about it and go to a walmart or something. I'm sorry but I'm not even going to pretend to be sorry about a pickpocket targeting normal people getting his (or her) ass beaten.
Though, on that note, is it harder or riskier to shoplift in Europe? Maybe that's why we have fewer pickpockets because stores are much easier and safer targets. Unless you get a particularly enthusiastic mall cop after you, even if you get caught, it'll probably be a fairly polite interaction involving more disappointment than rage, all the way from capture to sentencing, at least in Canada.
Plus these days the odds of getting cash is low and the expensive device everyone carries has gps tracking built in, so the reward might be too low for the risk.
- If you see someone shoplifting, no you didn't.
  Edit: to clarify, I agree with you, and that's part of the intention of leaving this quip here
- I’m sorry but I’m not even going to pretend to be sorry about a pickpocket targeting normal people getting his (or her) ass beaten.
  What about American tourists in a foreign nation that has been historically violently repressed via the American Military and economic shock treatment by American institutions? Those American tourists enabled their government and businesses to do that, via their votes and their labor for said businesses. In this respect they are not just "regular people" in a place like Mexico, Chile, Iran, Iraq, and so on.

In São Paulo it was a little mini-assault.

You'd get shoved from behind, maybe bumped into from the side, while yet another guy is actually taking your shit. Extra credit if you're at a curb so you stumble.

Then everybody splits, your instinct is to turn around to see the guy who shoved you, by the time you've done that and realized what happened, your shit is goooone.

What are they doing in Paris that the mark has a chance to grab them? I guess if you're in a reasonably athletic pack of 4-5, but at that point surely there are easier targets?

I suppose people who don't watch American sports don't appreciate that there are many obese Americans who can still run 40 yards in six seconds and expertly smash you into the ground when they get there.

I was almost pickpocketed in Paris when I was out late at night and stupid drunk to the point I was seeing double. I had sat down on the curb because standing wasn't great. They came up behind me and crouched down without me noticing until they made their move. I instantly went into fight mode and almost stabbed them. Super dumb but I was very drunk and it was just like instinct that they were trying to steal my knife so the only option was stab them in the face with it before they could use it to stab me. As soon as I got the knife back I had the blade open and they jumped back looking terrified like I was a wild animal about to attack, which is kind of what I felt like. Super weird experience. I think they were really just grabbing what they could and happened to get my knife instead of my wallet but being a drunk American my first instinct was kill or be killed.
- You learned that in a crisis your mode is fight. Better than freeze and fawn for sure, flee is safer.
- Why do you carry a knife in the first place?
In my city in the UK, there have been a lot of thefts recently where someone will grab a phone out of someone's hand and then escape on a moped or bike. Sometimes they start out on foot and hop on a vehicle, but sometimes it's a "drive by" pickpocketing, so to speak (though calling it pickpocketing feels a tad erroneous if there are no pockets involved).
In big European cities, a more subtle version of what you describe can be quite common. Like if a suspicious person bumps into you (in a manner that's fairly common in a big city), people who suspect that they have been pickpocketed may pat the pocket that their phone or wallet is in to check that things are still there. This is then observed by someone working with that first person, and they watch and wait for an opportunity to surreptitiously swoop in. When it happens, even if you immediately feel that you have been pickpocketed, it can be difficult to discern who it was.
people who don’t watch American sports
I'm gonna go out on a fucking limb and say people playing professional sports are not representative of the average obese assholes who have to walk around with a fucking oxygen tank lmao.
expertly smash you into the ground
Seriously, why do Americans all think they're the best fighters around? Is it too much television and action movies? You're in America, you really think an American pickpocket isn't going to be packing some kind of weapon and if they clock that they're being chased they are afraid to use it or something? I dunno, it seems to me the vast majority love just fantasizing about this while in reality they'd be bleeding out on the pavement before they had a chance to touch the person who swiped their shit.
- Nobody said anything about professionals until you came along. And you don't have to be the best. You just have to be enough. In fact nobody claimed anyone was the best until you came around. It seems like you just wanted an opportunity to insult Americans.
- Pretty sure they were talking about football players. Not really a fighting thing. That's literally half the game.
- This isn't about standing up and doing axe kicks and shit, this is about chasing somebody down and getting the ball back from them.
  I've personally chased somebody down who assumed they could outrun me because I was fat, ten years after the last time I played gridiron.
  My knees were wobbly and I was a little lightheaded afterward, but it's the one athletic ability your stereotypical dumbass American will have. We'll literally break our own ankle trying to do a stepover. Or maybe that's just me. 😄
- The American dudes who played sports in high school and are now in their 20s and 30s haven't had their health collapse yet.
  European cops are way more intimidating than American cops, by and large. I'm not trying to be jingoistic, I'm just saying that running after someone who is carrying something is the version of the national sport the vast majority of us actually play.
- I think what you're missing is that waaay more Americans than you think played sports as a kid (well over 60% of the population iirc), and still know how to tackle someone. Football is huge here, and baseball can get pretty nasty too (source: other kids would see the armor and think 'well if I can knock the ball out of his glove I'm safe!')
  Yes, there are a lot of obese assholes, but it turns out lugging around an extra 100lb of weight is actually pretty good strength training for the legs. Yes, they're going to be gassed nigh instantly because their cardio is shit, but they're probably fast off the mark and weigh enough that just running into you will slam you into the ground pretty badly.
  Weight classes exist for a reason, and most Americans are going to be in a much higher weight class than the average pickpocket. Absent any weapons, as long as they can catch them, the American has a decent chance of winning, statistically speaking. Paris pickpockets found that out to their detriment.

It is, your just not gonna find pickpockets in rural places and most people don't leave their county, let alone state so people are clueless how the world at large works. Go to any big city and you'll find pick pockets at work. Further to that, many of their tourist places are far apart and remote so less likely to find them in the same kind of places as Europe, which draws large volumes of people reliably to the sames places from all over the world.

For the record, American's don't like anything.

I grew up in New York City and now live in Boston and I've never encountered a pickpocket. I've been mugged three times and had a mentally unbalanced homeless guy punch me in the face unprovoked, but I've never been pickpocketed.
- Agreed. Grew up in dense East Coast cities in the 80s and 90s, pickpocketing was not a thing that happened.
While you will find pickpockets in major tourist spots in the US, they are not nearly as common as elsewhere. Here we just prefer the good ol' stick-up.
American’s don’t like anything.
I'm offended sir, now if you'll excuse me, I need to attend to my hamburger!
- I'm going to go eat my hamburger in my truck! Good day, sir!
We do seem to enjoy locking up and deporting the people who do the actual work around here.

My wife and I were Honeymooning in Paris, purchasing subway passes from an automated kiosk, when a guy who was pretending to be really interested in his phone started getting uncomfortably close to her. She felt him touch her, so she elbowed him real hard, knocking the phone out of his hand, and yelling, "Oh no, are you OK, I'm so sorry, I broke your phone!" real loud (which was true, she cracked his screen). I don't think he was expecting a 5'2" woman to assault him, because he grabbed his broken phone and started booking it before I could react.

A very nice Parisian came over and told us we needed to be more careful and watch ouf for thieves. We thanked him, but my wife was laughing a few moments later because she just assumed he was a pervert. I thought maybe the phone screen had already been broken, and he was trying to run some sort of, "Hey, you broke my phone, give me money!" scam but chickened out when he saw how aggressively my wife reacted. We live in a major American city, so we've experienced crime before, but it never occurred to us that he was trying to pick her pocket. Felt almost quaint, like a Dickens novel.

I live in a tourist trap area of the US and got pick pocketed once shortly after moving here. So I am real cautious of strangers getting close. After doing to Pokemon go rounds one night some dude started following me, and the girl I was dating at the time, from the gas station. I come from a much more densely populated area of the US so I immediately recognized it as a threat, and told her to keep walking and I would catch up. I'll admit I was a little too aggressive given the situation, cause I saw a "come to God" moment in homie's eyes when he realized how big the dude he was stalking was(I'm easily two standard deviations to the right of bell curve in terms of largeness, but I'm also proportional so most don't realize it on sight).
I would say I felt bad, but after getting my walker taken and having to go through the bullshit involved, I wasn't about to take a chance. Funny thing is, the girl actually broke up with me cause of that incident and immediately got with a meth head who took her and her family for what they could.
This story, much like life, has no point other than keep your wallet in a very noticable area.
- It's weird moving to places where the relative danger of different crimes vary.
  I grew up in a place where I was mugged at knife point a couple of times. It was a pretty socioeconomically deprived area where this wasn't normal, but it wasn't super abnormal either. One of the times I was mugged, I was in a pretty bad place with my mental health, and I said "if you want my phone, then just fucking stab me for it, because I don't give a fuck anymore". The guy mugging me seemed to recognise me as someone going through some shit, and became super sympathetic. He even asked me if there was anything he could do to help. A friend who was mugged (at knifepoint) in the same rough area one responded by saying "oh come off it, mate" and continuing walking. It's like there was a weird sense of solidarity, because we all knew we lived in a shit hole place with no prospects.
  I later moved to a much safer city, where being out at night felt tremendously safe. Now, I live in a larger city, and none of my previously cultivated instincts for safety are the right fit. I know that I must be more cautious here than I was in the small, posh city I lived in, but also I feel that the kind of caution I need here is quite different to what was necessary in my home town. Without a calibrated sense of risk in this new city, I often find myself being overly cautious. I suppose that's a safer side of caution to err on.

There's no pickpocketing in the US because thieves will shoot you before taking your wallet. At that point it's murder with a motive

There is no pickpocket in america, people rather smash car windows.
No, it is because pickpocketing can be argued as being an assault in the US. If you catch someone pickpocketing you it is legal to defend yourself and your property.
- ...and that's why they start with maximum violence out of the bat. If for you as a criminal the outcome is the same, why risk it and start with random pickpocket, when you will be tried as if you assaulted a person, start with an assault, safer for you, same risk.
- That is entirely dependent on the state you live in, and not all states have the same kind of interpretation.
I was thinking it was because, in many places people are carrying in public, and if you steal from the wrong person, you're dead.
- Yeah that's why crime has plummeted /s

the only time I ever see it in the US is music festivals

Super popular at US music festivals.
And San Francisco and presumably most other nightclubs. This is a big one! Anecdotally—too frequent.

As we say in the USA:

"The police don't protect us, we protect us"

There are 7 police officers in my town of 13k. We say "Sometimes there's justice and sometimes there's just us"
- Whole lee shit this is good! I've always heard the adage "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away."
  And that's true for both where I'm from(Miami) and where I moved to(the corner of bum fucked & nowhere)
I mean sure, it do be like that but also my old roommate, who never locked his car and kept weed and his work tools in it overnight, every night, walked around our neighborhood with a pistol "looking" for the guys who stole the aforementioned tools and weed.
It happened 3 times....there's something wrong with alot of us
- Did he think that gave him a legal precedent? Like isn't owning weed and a gun a felony in and of itself?
That's kinda cool seeing how apparently you guys do put your money where your mouth is 😄 I wish we talked about that kinda stuff more and not just about the bad. I feel like remembering that not every aspect of being American sucks might give people a better reason to resist too.
- Americans are naturally anarchist, we just have a shitload of bootlicker propaganda shoved on us at all times and too many people buy it

I went through paris in a jacket with a vertical zippered breast pocket. I was bumpchecked so damn many times, I just wanted to get a little baggie of grease it put it in there, give me a little fun for their trouble.

when was this? i was in paris in november, and had no issues. granted, i heard pickpockets were an issue, so i just used my phone for payments, but no one bumped me or anything.
- , so i just used my phone for payments
  Let's just say long before mobile phones could be used as payments :)
  I kept my cash and passport on one of those neck lanyards underneath my shirt.

What reaction were the French pickpockets expecting? Ope, lemme get that for ya?

Certainly not assault. Most (french) people catching a thief inside their pocket have a bad enough day to not risk getting injured while winning a prison ticket.
I think it's harder to die from poor in France.
- Oh. That makes sense

Omg, this turned out to be a thread with plenty explanations to USians that societies have laws, police, judges...

You can blame the orange guy all you want, but your culture is completely derailed. Murder (under whatever "reasons") can't be a national sport.

Weapon manufacturers really did a good job in the land of the free..

I mean obviously the gun laws are insane but the act of collectively beating the shit out of pickpockets has my respect.
- Violent retribution as a core principle might contribute to your completely insane murder rates.
- What about a pickpocket that stole a stupid iPhone from a rich teen who would get a new one the very next day? And, in some less frequent cases, the pickpocket may have had actual needs like buying medicine..
  That's the reason we have a judicial system. Not even police are supposed to do harm, only prevent harm and bring into justice system.
  I know the system has many flaws. That's beyond the point. Those who prefer to go vigilante are calling for making it worse. Specially if we take into account the effects of inequality on a hands-on self-service judicial approach...
My most American belief is that society fell apart when we got rid of dueling. Assholes need the threat of violent retribution to contain their assholery, and without that, they just shit everywhere.
Of course, that belief falls apart the minute that you realize that assholes can be good at dueling, too…
- It also falls apart when dueling did not generally cross classes. If you were a rich guy your “defense of your honor” was either petty or eliminating competition, sometimes both. No poor person was going to take out a “rich asshole” by any other means than being charged with murder. The only violent retribution available to the masses is revolt accompanied by a guillotine.
- The public largely supported the abolition of duelling. The reason it disappeared was because it was largely associated with slave owners in the south and it disappeared after they lost the Civil War.
USian checking in, and you're absolutely right. We somehow have the biggest police budget, while simultaneously having the most violent crimes & incarceration rates of all the developed nations.
- there's no "somehow" about it. police don't stop crime.
- The other day, I was learning about the private prison system in the UK. It was grim seeing how that whole process leads to the proliferation of crime. Things are a damn sight better here than in the US, but it's clear that our current trajectory is taking us closer to the US on that front.
  It's a self reinforcing cycle, because the rhetoric of crime leads to the proliferation of prisons, and a system that finds it profitable to criminalise people. I'm not even talking about prisons in terms of rehabilitation Vs punitive justice here, but almost the stage before that — people who probably shouldn't be considered criminals at all. I suppose what I am positing is that we should be applying preventative medicine" lens towards crime and criminals. But of course, where's the profit in actually addressing socioeconomic inequities?
Watching 60 days in is an absolutely insane thing to watch as a non american. People living like cockroaches in moldy shit stained rooms. People just sleep on the floor because they are over capacity, violence, food that looks just downright like a hazard to eat. And people in there are like: yeah, i've been here 10 times. I can't get a job so i do crime and then i land here again. Or guys like: i grew some weed, so obviously i'm in this slave hole for 10 years.
- What I find worse is how many Americans refuse to accept that our society can and should treat prisoners better. Like I'm not advocating for luxury hotels or unrestricted freedoms for them, just humane conditions, reasonable sentence lengths, and a focus on rehabilitation. What we're doing isn't working and is a stain on our collective soul.
  Though I will say most Americans have odd understandings of quality of life. Owning a car is seen as so fundamental that people feel attacked at the idea of building cities where it's not a necessity, while the idea that we should provide free meals to schoolchildren or providing medicine to prisoners is seen by many as government waste. Even our fundamental and foundational rights such as state appointed lawyers for the indigent accused of crimes are nickel and dimed to uselessness, and the idea of providing these lawyers for all accused who want them is seen as radical.
- have they tried not doing crime?
When seconds matter, the police are only minutes away.
And now the police (ICE) are disappearing people. Can you blame people for wanting guns?
The saddest/funniest thing to me about this whole bit is how every. single. US. person defending their right to righteously beat the shit out of someone for picking their pocket never, ever, even considers the idea that they might lose.
It's just like gun owners in general. They all think they're a perfect shot and the other guy must be like a Storm Trooper in Star Wars and can't hit the broad side of a barn.
Everyone thinks they're the hero and that they don't need cops and laws until they're the one bleeding out in an alleyway on the verge of death because they were stupid enough to "fight back."
US Americans are completely fucking unhinged and live in a fantasy land where somehow every single one of them is the biggest and strongest with the biggest dick and will always win because their cause is righteous. What a crock of shit.
- Willingness to stand up for oneself is not necessarily the same as one overestimating their ability to fight.
  I was bullied regularly as a kid. I was no match at all for most of the bullies, they easily had strength, size, numbers, and fighting experience over me, but since the schools wouldn't or couldn't do a damn thing to protect me, especially when the bullies followed me well away from school grounds, the only choices I had were to either endure it, or to try to change the situation by standing up for myself. Even if I got my ass beat even worse just for standing up for myself, at the very least it made it clear to them that I was no longer guaranteed to be a frictionless target and that sometimes changes things for the better.
  It's not about winning. It's about putting up the fight, because the potential outcomes of not fighting back aren't always much better than standing up for oneself.
  That said, I personally wouldn't want to put a foreign trip in jeopardy by assaulting anyone if it wasn't an actual self defense situation, much like back at home. I'm just responding to this idea that willingness to fight is not the same thing as being overly confident that one will come out on top.
- I think it's actually a symptom of a small penis. Huge truck, big gun, itty bitty peepee.
People!! Ugh. Downvoting me is letting your internalized opression taking over your moral!
- I don't downvote much. I logged in today just so I could downvote you.
  Not sure why other folks did it, but for me, you seemed to like the attention.

Not too surprised. Living in the US, giving a shit about the safety of owned property is pretty much the only thing you can count on.

Property is more important than lives. Where else would people literally say they’d shoot someone for going on “their” land.
- In the US, we have a phrase for the mindset you're describing:
  "Fuck you, I got mine."
Because replacing said property costs money, money they generally don’t have. Being poor in the US is a cruel hell and they don’t seem to plan on fixing it any time soon so violence it is.
- Yep. Don't ever bother with de-escalation when you know no safety net will save you. You have to go all in, or you are left behind, or dead.
  Not the world I like living in, but that's the world I'm currently living in. Hell, my father was robbed several times growing up, so he made sure to teach my sibling and I how to be wary and catch people in the act.

Thieves in the US will just pull a gun on you and turn it into a robbery. It's simply safer for them to come out of the gate with you at an obvious disadvantage.

Can you draw your weapon before they can pull their trigger? Go ahead, punk. Make my day.

Yeah, this seems to be the most plausible answer here, assuming the baseline claim is true.
It tooke me years to understand that in the US apparently instead of burglars just breaking in, stealing stuff and leaving, "home invasions" are a thing, where people are facing armed robbery in their houses, often including rape. It seems that in the US crime often has a much more violent and hateful component to it than in other western countries.
- Around 5 years ago, still in reddit I did a comparison between US and EU crime rates. Despite my prejudice against the US most crimes were fairly similar (robberies, burglaries, assault), it was homicides where the US goes batshit insane.
  I believe it must be the availability of guns (even on the defending side, making the criminals more aggressive) that makes a homicide happen alongside a robbery where it does not in EU.
- Eh our burglaries sometimes turn into sexual violence too even without guns involved. And it should be unferstoo that "home invasion" means everything from a quick burglary while you're out of town to an armed robbery with rape. But yeah it's important to understand that we do overly focus on the latter and ignore that the former is far more likely even here, but thieves in America often have guns. Crime is disproportionately violent here, but we also are really focused on the most violent crime because it's sensational and serves as common excuses for bigotry and for gun ownership.
  Like when I suffered a home invasion I became acutely aware of how few people I knew had experienced such a thing (and were willing to volunteer that information). So many people own a gun to deal with a violent robbery with rape, yet few know anyone who's experienced that, a gun kept safely is unlikely to help, and they're significantly more likely to be harmed by their own gun than someone else's.
- I call it colonial trauma. Our forefathers would rape the help and the worse that would happen is getting berated by the judge.

When US Americans get painted this way, it feels like a "Humans- Fuck Yeah" story. Like I'm just so used to us having our downsides highlighted that it feels special to be seen for a positive attribute

I think that's a positive. Americans, in the absence of law enforcement, will fight to defend themselves and their property (and vicariously, the property of others).
Stopping thievery, is, unto itself, a just cause.
It's a bit like learning that Russian cargo ships don't get boarded by pirates because they'll just start fucking shooting.
Say what you want about Russians, but that kind of rules.
- Russians are the scariest white people.
I feel like these stories provide second-hand catharsis, but I don't know if it's necessarily a positive light.
- Yeah seems like committing a violent crime in response to a petty crime to me.
I interpreted it as a negative, like "Americans are violent," heh.
Is it?
I sympathize with the complex though.
- We have a hyper sense of justice instilled in us from a young age. It's like the basis of our country (or so we're taught).
- There's a significant percentage of Americans that wouldn't take that as a negative. As in, aren't just violent, but are proud of being violent and consider it to be a positive quality. Not all of us, but a fair few. Hence you get things like some gun people fantasizing about having someone break in to their house so that they have a justification to shoot someone and feel righteous about it.

Does the US have gypsy gangs that go from city to city? Since in Europe the vast majority of pickpockets are gypsy/roma.

There are some in New Orleans. Just put your phone down the front of your pants and you're good. Also, people there will shoot you in the face for no reason, and the East side is like a war zone with machine guns going off.
We've got carnies, which have a similarly cool-unsavory reputation but they do their best to pick the pockets voluntarily. UK has some squatter protection and a history of accepting and sometimes even romanticizing the gypsies which USA does not, so any illegal encampment that has any property worth having in violation of zoning is run out very quickly, especially out in the country where you might just get shot in the head for trying.
Dw y'all can put them to camps again soon
- LOL. Did I say that all gypsies are criminals or something? I just said that most pickpocketers are from gypsie gangs and gypsie gangs are a real thing in Europe not some racist conspiracy. Just like that the Turkish mafia or Chinese Triads in Europe is a real thing, pointing that out doesn't mean saying all Turks and Chinese in Europe are mobsters.
  You are doing the same thing as the Israeli that call everyone an anti-semite for pointing out the crimes their government commits. Just because someone points out that pickpocketers are mostly roma doesn't mean they are being racist.

In 1992, I caught an eight year old pickpocketing my friend. We were 4 18yo males from Texas. So I am holding this kid a couple feet off the ground trying to decide what the hell to do with him. My friends didn't really know what to do either. He was struggling pretty good, but not enough to get free. His mom came rushing over yelling something unintelligible, so I just threw him at her, and they took off running.

Why is pickpocketing and related just like, not a thing in the US?

I call bullshit. This is the country where everybody says, don't confront or they'll shoot/stab you. I bet many other countries have more vigilantism. This is the country, where everybody has guns "to rise against tyranny" and lets a tyranny roam free. This is the country where school shootings are almost a daily event. Majority of these people won't even confront people that litter.

We don't have pickpocketing in America, we have robbery.
I had two incidents in my life where someone attempted to rob me. Like specifically requested I give them something. Both times ended with nothing, because they backed off when they realized I don't have anything worth it.
- Ah ha ! As a kid I was stunned by how violente the death of Bruce Wayne parents were. All this for jewelery? I get it now. That's just cultural chock. Less pickpocketing more robbery.
- We do have organized pickpockets in the US, just not as many and they are mostly concentrated in specific parts of the country where there are dense tourist areas. New Orleans and Las Vegas for example are both pretty well known for having pickpockets.
I've never been pickpocketed here. It really is in my experience such an elsewhere and old timey crime that I'd be shocked to see it here outside of somewhere like times square.
It's a skilled crime with high risk of physical violence that thrives when people with enough money to rob are walking with enough frequency as to make it worth robbing folks. Car culture probably plays more of a role than risk of being beaten up, but the potential violence of victims may contribute to would be pickpockets just being muggers.
Thievery here is more con artists, threatening crime, and burglary. It's a smash and grab on your car, a mugging (though that's also not super common since the cities were cleaned up), or a armed robbery of a store rather than a pickpocket
Why is pickpocketing and related just like, not a thing in the US?
I call bullshit. This is the country where everybody says, don't confront or they'll shoot/stab you.
Well, you might have your answer right there. Pickpockets risk getting shot or stabbed, so the risk/reward maths out poorly for them
- Three American cities are in the top ten worldwide in fear of getting pickpocketed.
  Source: https://matadornetwork.com/read/worst-us-cities-for-pickpockets/
  Pickpocketing is happening in every major US city with numbers rising from year to year:
  So US citizens thinking they're superior when they arent.
  https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/05/pickpocket-smartphones/585997/
  https://havengear.com/blog/pickpocketing/
  But in the end, I believe it's the car centered cities that keep numbers relatively low. No puclic transport and less people at one place= less pickpockets.
- I must not have made that comment clear. That is what americans often have told me when talking about vigilantism. "Don't resist because they might be armed."
I’ve confronted some litterbugs in the past. Sometimes they get indignant and try to talk shit, but since I usually start my picking up the trash and then saying something, the usual responses are, I didn’t mean to do that, or, I was going to get that. To which I usually just say, yeah, sure you were buddy, and walk away. One time it was pretty sketch, big ass dude got real aggro, but fuck him, don’t litter.
Maybe our lived experiences are anecdotal, different. Your stance seems very generalized, though, if you don't mind me saying so.
The type of shit the average Joe/Jill deals with depends on their location, situation, and reaction cannot be wrapped up so simply. Mass shootings and politics are just more issues you're lumping together in a way I feel just isn't so beautifully packaged as you wrapped it up to be.
Our society is fucked. Don't get me wrong. But I'm smart/dumb enough not to call you on it outright while I still understand that everything you encompassed here is far more nuanced than a simple, regurgitated hot take.
Many of the people that have helped me escape muggings are the same people our society would accuse of mugging me. 100% of the time they were more helpful than law enforcement.
I think that speaks more to the topic at hand than your comment. We only have each other, sometimes just ourselves, and we cannot look to those that are suppose to uphold the law so we take care of ourselves to a passionate degree and learn fast that it's better to ask forgiveness than it is permission. The court system is a joke, too. So again. Too many topics, ideals, and talking points to wrap up in a neat little package.
If it was as simple as all of that, why not run for office with this as your platform? Do the work. We all know those actually in office aren't doing it, so prove them wrong. Otherwise, and I'm sorry, but I take what you say just as seriously as the pontificating drunks I served all night.

How do Europeans react to pickpockets?

I caught a pickpocket in Madrid with his hand in my girlfriend’s purse. He was directly behind us on the escalator. We just kind of were like “hey not cool,” then had an awkward escalator ride. We were late for a flight, so didn’t really have time to do much anyway.
I have had stuff stolen in Paris. Mostly, you have no idea it happened until they’re long gone.
- You caught a man with his hand in your girlfriend's purse, and his punishment was a "hey, not cool" and 15 seconds of awkward escalator?
  No fucking wonder that happens CONSTANTLY when an awkward 15 second escalator ride is the punishment for getting caught.
- I've been in a situation like that. Street perfomance, many a people. Some guy bumped behind me. I somehow quickly noticed a lack of phone. I told my dad, soon as I realised. He went up to the guy, the guy was all like "eh, he dropped it" or whatever. Feels like they just be awkward
- It usually isn't worth the time to call the police and wait for them while trying to retain the person(s). If the stolen value is under 400 euros they can only get a fine.
- I think you destroyed him emotionally.
warn other people of their presence, publicly shame them
- Has public shame worked so far?
Sounds like they just shrug it off like wusses. “Ope don’t get to own that anymore “

Proud to be an American 🇺🇸🦅🫡

glad people are finally noticing this aspect of 2a. maybe the conversation can eventually start to touch on things like how it works for unions, reproductive rights, preventing cop fuckery, resisting environmental exploration. long story short, how the perpetrators of systemic and corporeal violence almost exclusively only target the vulnerable and unarmed.

I think the biggest factor here is the immediate and tangible aspect of this type of theft.
Wage theft and systemic things are larger and conceptual until it hits, and more often than not because it’s so vague and not “just one person” it doesn’t evoke the same visceral response in a lot of people.
Not sure how we can start reframing to do so but getting on these conversations is a good idea for sure.

I'd much rather be pickpocketed than shot.

I’d much rather be pickpocketed than shoot.

So you're saying that americans have a magical property that makes them confront pickpocketers unlike everyone else who simply allows it to happen because they apparently don't care about keeping their expensive stuff? Believable

Yeah the whole post reeks of shit Americans say. Especially because the premise it is based on is false. Pickpocketing in Los Angeles continues to climb. Pickpocketing exists in US cities as it does in other cities.
But that is the thing, pickpockets mostly operate in city areas, and the US is much less densely populated than Europe.
Also it is funny that they think they will automatically always notice pickpockets so they can imaginarily intervene, which is kinda not how pickpocketing works. You notice it long after the criminals are gone.
- Pick pocketing does exist in the US but it is much rarer than in Europe. Even if you just compare major American cities to major European cities. Pickpocketing is much more common in Europe.
  I don’t think that’s down to a risk of confrontation though. I think it’s down to the fact that pickpockets can’t make enough money to live on in the US.
  Cash is less common in the US. A lot of people straight up don’t carry cash on them, and the rest barely carry any. Almost everything has accepted cards for nearly 2 decades here.
  Managing to steal a card is much less useful than stealing cash. The card is liable to get canceled the moment someone realizes it’s gone, maybe they can get lunch with it before it’s canceled, but they can’t keep that money around to pay rent or buy groceries with. Phones and other things to can be pawned, but that’s another extra step, and another chance to get in trouble, and most of the time the actual money they can walk away with is much less than the value of the item.
No wonder we had to step in for WW2.

Americans being unaware that pickpockets usually work in teams rule

So do I.

If someone tried stealing my shit and I caught them, their face would be pretty knotted up.

Thanks to tourists getting all the pickpockets attention, french locals are mostly safe. I never had an issue. That's why I'd like to say to American tourists: come on, just need to chill out. It's just a wallet and phone. Give it away, you'll have a great story to share when you get back home.

How enlightened of you. After all, it's not like Americans really need their documents, money, or phones in a foreign country.
- You’re not really into sarcasm, aren’t you.
"I just got back from France! The nicest local I met was the guy that picked my pocket and never said anything to me"

Americans just might be too stupid to notice they were pickpocketed and then think no one pickpockets there

My iphone is gone. Well good thing they release the new one soon and i can pay it off with only 50% interest.
You are serially online and need to learn how to think for yourself.
- Unfortunately you also meet americans irl.

I'll look another moron who thinks that crime rates are actually meaningful in any way, shape, or form.