Capitalism is killing us
Capitalism is killing us
Yes I know China is also technically capitalist but you understand the idea
86 comments
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right right... which part of China is communist again? is it the permanent oligarchy? the reeducation camps? the low-paying factory jobs that make the owner class rich?
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Well we've got all that in the US already, so can we just do the version where we get trains in addition to the other stuff, instead of just the other stuff?
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Ha ha, no. Petroleum lobby needs a new pair of shoes.
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China's nationwide passenger rail network doesn't really care if you have a valid point or not.
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Yes, comrade, we have the best trains. They are most efficient for getting workers to the labor camps. We must work hard to build the glorious future for
dear leaderour people!
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"Reeducation camps". You spelled concentration camps wrong. Greetings from germany
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Potato, tomato...
Concentration camp is where you go when you really need to focus on learning to be a better
wage slaveparty memberpatriotnationalist lunaticcitizen.
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I was reading the post as a reply to republicans who are saying china is bad because of communism.
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republicans who are saying china is bad because of communism.
Yes, well, those are some very confused people who wouldn't know communism from a hole in the ground.
They're a lot like the people on .ml and hexbear, even some of the people on .world.
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China is as communist as the vatican is good for kids
But sure let us be blinded by propaganda and ignore that the trains in china are held together by ducktape, rails are unsafe and got build with slave labor :)
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Don't think u have travelled to china. Their rail system is fantastic. All out train in US looks like came from steel mill from Philadelphia. Boxy trash and slow af
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Dont need to travel to see that chinese people live in poverty, anything can be done when you are a dictatorship, its corrupt and everything is a scam. Fake meat, fake tofu, tofu drag constructions, 4 billion on a road and all the village got was a gravel path. Where a state teaches kids to hate other nations and disrespect everything for something that happened 80 years ago instead of making sure this does not ever happen again. Where its a national sport to go abroad and harass others. Where the state doesnt care about your stolen things, but if you speak out publicly against it, you will be warned with a kind "take that down, or else".
If their electric cars are anything to go by, i dont even want to step on their most modern trains even if they give me trillions of GBP.
If the regime is supposed to be an example of progress, well guess then we all should go back to european monarchy and imperialism. Europe thrived in the 19th century afterall. Just look at all those rich people living luxurious lifes. All the advancements in science, medicine, transportation, literatur, architectur, social policies, unification of people split appart and more.
If i were to travel to china they would arrest me on the airport for critisising china and not seeing the CCP as legitimite and supporting taiwan, that being if i would even be allowed to enter the country.
The USA train system is shit, yes, thats not even on debate. Against that even the russian train system is amazing.
Also china didnt build its high speed trains on their own. They used EU and japanese tech.
Japan has the best train system in the entire world, and that without being a supressive, all survaling dictatorship. OP here is comparing shit, scooped from the toilet, to a microwave meal, that got a mediocer plate up. Ofc then in comparison the microwave meal will look better.
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nd ignore that the trains in china are held together by ducktape, rails are unsafe and got build with slave labor :)
?? I don't love china but ignoring the enormous amount of investment they've made is silly. that's what it is, investment. The amount of roads and rail in the last 20 years should give anyone pause, instead of discounting it.
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To be fair, they played a significant part in building American railroads too, so that original point is a bit off to begin with
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China is a Socialist country run by a Communist party, which is why the overwhelming majority of major Communist orgs recognize it as such. The economy is dominated by the public sector, which controls the large majority of key industries and large firms. They aren't fully developed post-scarcity Communist yet, but they are developing through Socialism.
Further, Chinese infrastructure is good. The rails are safe and the trains aren't held together with duct tape, and they aren't made with slave labor. This is just chauvanism.
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They are not socialist in the slightest. That requires the workers to own the means of production, which they do not.
Edit: To expand on this companies are organized the same way as in capitalism because they are capitalist. Workers at the bottom, management in the middle, and rich capitalists at the top.
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The rails are good, but a bit rushed planning wise. Haven't been to China, but the biggest complaints I've heard are more "they stuck a station in a super inconvenient spot so they could show progress on the project"
The trains and track seem to have been well built though.
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Spain is better at building high speed rail infrastructure than China is. The problem is not the economic system, it's what lobby groups are in charge.
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And all the libertarians cry about is how it's not real free markets and that's why we don't have nice trains and public education etc. not understanding that it's government funding and regulations that's just barely keeping everything (pun intended) on the rails in the first place.
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Libertarians are like house cats. Completely dependent on a system they neither understand nor appreciate and fiercely confident of their own independence.
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fiercely confident of their own independence
In fairness, if you let the average cat out into nature it would be fine. Dump the average libertarian into nature and they wont last the night.
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well if the govt didn't push cars so much, there would be more trains
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Now do Vietnam vs Japan or Switzerland
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It’s more like American car centric culture vs rest of the world.
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well not the entire rest of the world... source: living in Brazil
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I see Brazil the same way as an artist going on world tour
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We should also put "communism" in quotations too.
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I’d trade all parking spots for more trains in my city.
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I guess the rest of Asia and Europe don't count?
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China does have a superb high-speed rail network, you gotta give them that
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Oh, the old "make the trains run on time" has come back in use?
Jokes aside, the CCP push for infrastructure investment in both renewables, public mass transportation is enviable, but also it comes with a cost:
That said, some of our countries might be in a slippery slope towards a similar situation (I mean nearly non-payed labor or debt slavery already exist in some countries).
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Yes but that wasn't the argument
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I guess Japan and (good) Korea must be communists then with their extensive and reliable train networks.
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As much as I love Amtrak, I have to agree.
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I always find it strange when I find someone in the wild who likes Amtrak. I have only heard and experienced horror stories.
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They've been solid for me. I used to take the Acela between NYC and Baltimore all the time. It was faster than flying when comparing door-to-door times, cheaper, no fucking TSA, and it had a bar car. Also took one from Portland to BC recently which was legit.
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I've ridden on Amtrak's business class on the NEC or sleepers outside thbide corridor since I was a child. So, I have a bit of a bias.
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I've had great rides... But the problems are more like underfunding, overpricing, underavailability, etc.
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Really, your example for the "free market" transportation in the US is Amtrack? ... in a car community?
This is just a tanky shitpost.
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For some reason, people still act like capitalism and socialism (or communism) are mutually exclusive, that an economy must be one or the other. But if you look at essentially every national economy on the planet today, they are all some mix of the socialist mode of production (when the means of production are owned by the government, or a group of workers, or a community) and the capitalist mode of production (when the means of production are owned by a private individual or group of investors, operating for a profit). Almost no economy is exclusively one or the other.
It is true that in most countries with robust high speed rail, there is significant government involvement, like planning and building infrastructure, subsidies, or just providing rail travel as a public service. I definitely think that for a national rail service network to work, you need to do some planning. Here in the US, government and planning are bad words, but clearly they needn't be.
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Social programs are not Socialism. The government doing stuff is not Socialism. You cannot take aspects of a society out of their context and analyze them discretely. The United States does not have a "Socialist" millitary. Socialism is a mode of production determined by public ownership being the principle aspect of the economy, ie large firms and key industries being firmly public, as opposed to Capitalism where private ownership is the principle aspect.
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Socialism is a mode of production determined by public ownership
That's what I'm talking about. Essentially every national economy on the planet includes at least some socialist production. I can't think of a single national economy on the Earth where the production of all goods and services is carried out exclusively by privately owned, for-profit firms. Can you?
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Socialism and communism are not when the state does stuff.
Socialism/communism is workers owning the means of production. This is exceedingly rare and constantly attacked whenever it exists. Almost every state is overwhelmingly capitalist. That's a primary purpose of the state.
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Long term rule by a single party dedicated to improving infrastructure would do that. Let's not kid ourselves that the CCP is all sunshine and rainbows though.
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We haVe $100k+ SuVs!
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This is easier for China to do because they have high density population centers to connect as rail hubs, which makes the system efficient, cheap and viable, unlike in the US where things are more spread apart...but I have no illusions that in the US anybody would build this even if it was viable.
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This is such a shit argument.
US has comparable passenger railway service to Australia or worse while having metropolies with roughly the population of that entire country
aka: excuses
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Dont forget that china is an authorian dictatorship. "Do as your told or else" also makes a lot of things easier
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commie propaganda
Im chill with trains, but not with communism
86 comments