Haha they must be new to this, Jill Stein isn't running for president, she is running to split the vote like they paid her to.

Of course they know that. They're saying this to make exactly this point. While the average US voter will be entirely unaware of and oblivious to what some pinkos from cheese eating surrender monkey land say, potential green voters just might take notice.
- If they haven't already, they won't.
Fun fact: if jill wasnt on the ballot harris still wouldn't have received my vote. Harris losing votes has nothing to do with jill being there. Harris' struggles are purely her own fault, propaganda from Russia only works if there is a edge to grab, the only reason there is an edge to grab is because harris has decided to treat arab Americans absolutely horribly this entire campaign.
Learn to focus your energy properly: on changing Harris' mind not the voters for whom preventing a genocide is important. Trust me it'll be easier.
- Jill has a snowball's chance in hell of winning and if you think voting for her helps the "Arabs" you are wrong. It cancels out your voice because Jill is not a viable candidate. Your vote has been effectively split.
  Your choices, like it or not, are Harris or Trump. So let's break this down since you seem to think a vote for Harris is worse than not voting.
  Kamala Harris has prioritized a ceasefire in Gaza, advocating for Israel's right to respond to Hamas attacks while emphasizing civilian protection and addressing humanitarian needs. Harris’s approach focuses on a three-part plan for Gaza’s future: reconstruction, enhanced Palestinian Authority security, and governance reforms to stabilize the area post-conflict. Harris, however, does not support an arms embargo on Israel but has backed withholding specific weapons amid Israel’s military operations in Gaza. She views a two-state solution as a path toward long-term stability, but she stresses that immediate efforts should be humanitarian and diplomatic to prevent civilian harm and prepare for a sustainable resolution.
  Donald Trump, in contrast, has heavily criticized ceasefire calls as limiting Israel’s ability to eliminate Hamas, framing his support as “unconditional” for Israel’s military objectives. Trump argues that his policies would have prevented the escalation of violence, asserting that Hamas’s attack on Israel would not have occurred if he were in office. While he has expressed skepticism about a two-state solution, Trump is more focused on empowering Israel to pursue military action without restriction. Trump has also suggested that his approach would involve exerting pressure on Israeli leadership if necessary to secure what he describes as a “final resolution” to the conflict, though specifics remain vague. Trump's campaign has used pro-Israel rhetoric to appeal to voters and has signaled a hardline stance against Hamas.
  So, I am sure your voting for the lady who can't win as opposed to the lady who can win will help the "Arabs" you seem to care so much about. Good on you for picking a hill to die on though, I hope you like it because you and your people are about to die on it.
- Who would have recieved your vote, if only Trump and Harris were on the ballot?

Jill Stein is funded by Russia. Every multicellular organism knows this by now.

Yup, even my friend Fred the Fungi was just yapping about this, told me to follow the money.
You'd be suprised. My partner is very tuned in to politics and watches Hasan near daily, reads news, talks with me and her friends but casually mentioned she would be voting for Stein instead of Harris. I very quickly pulled up the Putin dinner party pic and a handful of articles explaining the various connections. It all totally flabbergasted her and she decided on Harris despite her, very legitimate, reservations over genocide. Realistically we're in a very blue state that will safely go Harris so it wouldn't matter, but I'm certain other people will still fall into the same trap.
I might be more tempted to believe this if I wasn’t regularly accused of the same thing by every Democrat on Lemmy.
- It holds a little more weight when you've been photographed at a formal dinner alongside every single Russian head of state.
- Nothing to believe. The proof is in front of your eyes. Green Party funding is from Russian sources. Jill loves to have dinners with Putin and the oligarchs.
- Type fast! Before long you’ll have to ship out to the front lines with you NK allies. Planting sunflowers is harder work than typing nonsense from your desk.
Yarp, and still voted for her because harris is that bad and hasnt shifted at on key issues that actually relate to the role of president. Like supporting labor (kahn, no strike busting, etc) and follwing the law with respect to weapon sales/delivery.
Focus your energy on getting harris to move, its a lot easier than getting people like me to move; we actually have moral values, harris doesnt. Though at this point its unlikely there are many hold outs waiting for her. Cast my ballot a week ago. Good luck in your efforts! Im rooting for you 🤷
- At least you are not worried about all the extra people in the world that will get hurt by your reactionary stance leading to a trump presidency. If you can't have your way, let the world burn... Gotcha.
  In this case you either vote against actual fascism or risk it taking over.
- "My moral values allow me to vote against my best interests and the welfare of anyone who doesn't align with the christofascist right. I have such a difficult time with concepts like "logical thinking" and "cause and effect" that I can rationalize such a terrible decision and even pretend that I'm the solution!"
- Is it hard to type with Putin’s dick in your mouth?
any proof ? and are we to ignore the dnc has significant funding from aipac to enable them to murder kids with our tax money ?
- GEnOcIdE!!! Whatabout!!!
  It will ve a nice place when you all leave by tuesday.
  Oh wait, maybe you'll be back whining about voter fraud
- https://www.politico.eu/article/europes-greens-tell-jill-stein-to-pull-out-of-us-election-to-defeat-trump/
- They looked in the mirror and Kamala bribed by AIPAC. Then they project that onto others.

Good. I was apart of the Green Party, I left when I learned they were planning of running a candidate this year, when internally, we were floating around the idea of NOT running a candidate.

- Can’t say exactly, it was just floated around, I’m guessing it was for that specific reason, but that was around the time I was thinking of leaving for other reasons, they are VERY unorganized as a party and it really, really bothered me. The way smaller Transhumanist Party seems more organized than the Green Party.
- Why would ylu believe a rando on a forum post re: insider info?

She won't.

Of course she won’t. She is Putin’s puppet.
- I never get tired of showing this photo.
Want to upvote your comment, but you're at 69.... Dilemma
- It's only a dilemma if you're 12.

Isn't it too late for it to matter? At this point, she's on the ballots that she's on, isn't she?

Especially for states like Oregon that are primarily vote by mail. I already have my ballot, and Stein withdrawing won't keep people from voting for her

Yes, her name is already on the ballots, like RFK Jr is still on the ballots in many states, but the hope is her supporters will listen to her endorsement. Just because a person's name is on the ballot doesn't force people to vote for that person. Some people have voted already, some will continue to vote for her out of protest, some will continue to vote for her because they didn't hear she dropped out or didn't care. But the hope is enough people will hear that she dropped out and endorsed Harris that their votes will come through for Harris.
- When I went to vote last week and saw RFK Jr.'s name was still on the Indiana ballot, I burst out laughing.
- What a shit show, honestly.
- You're assuming we voted for jill because shes jill. Which is not the case for everyone. She got my vote because of Harris' absolutely abysmal treatment of arabs and gaza, her lack of pro labor policies, etc etc etc.
  Jill dropping out would just meant the vote went to a different non-trump candidate or left blank.
  The only way harris would have gotten my vote was if she modified her position on gaza, or another key issues like ensuring kahn was kept.
  She declined to do so, so i declined to vote for her. 🤷 But harris will be fine my state is 20+ dem.

European Greens must be dumb as fuck then, because the US Green party exists to:

Get

Republicans

Elected

Every

November

and republicans exist the dnc can put a boogeyman every election so we will have to vote for these corrupt scammers. our political system is so broken that we either get lobbyists controlled genocidal hacks or a dumb racist genocider.
its like asking to eat either dogpoop or vomited dogpoop
- Two sides of the same coin am I right!? Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.
  I grew up listening to Rush Limbaugh and other hate radio. There is no liberal comparison.
  They regularly called for the death of liberals amongst other horrible shit. The toxicity comparison is ridiculous when the other side is liberals saying they wish conservative voters were not misled.
  I get you don't like the government. I don't either, but this is not a god damned game of good cop bad cop.
- Remember when abortion was legal?
- Checks watch: phew, only 4 days left before the "gEnOcIdErS" leave forever.
Maybe if your candidate were more popular than a rapist felon you wouldn't need to worry about the Greens.
- Maybe if we had an election system that wasn't broken we wouldn't need to worry about the Greens.
- Maybe if the electoral system hadn't been specifically designed to give extra votes to slave states from the beginning this wouldn't be a problem.

That would be against the entire purpose of her campaign.

Havent they pretty much admitted that shes running cause republicans have paid for her campaign, to try and split votes from democrats?

Sheesh, you're a bit late, folks. Besides, Stein is in the race specifically for the purpose of helping Trump win, so she wouldn't listen to them anyway.

I mean she has been running since 2012, are you saying that she has been a Trump plant this entire time?
If you are voting for Jill Stein it probably means that you have a distain for both political parties and want a candidate that's not anointed without a primary to vet them AND you don't want a authoritarian figure that will speed up our failing infrastructure and decline as a nation.
- Trump has been running since 2016, so yeah, pretty close.
  And frankly, even in 2012, her campaign has never been shy about taking help from the Republicans to spoil elections for the Democrats. Even if Stein isn't an active collaborator with them, she is at best a useful idiot.

Response from Jill: Can you outbid Putin?

Stein should shove off to fucking Moscow.

"Why do you think I'm running? Isn't this like telling me not to drink water to prevent hydration?" - Jill Stein probably

Too late. Ballots printed.

Mine was printed day of, just to be a pedantic jerk 🙂‍↕️

European Greens have always hated the US party. This may seem like politically aligned people asking a fellow traveler to stop but it's not.

The US "Green Party" isn't really a party or even a cohesive group of any sort. They don't actually stand for anything other than "not the democrat". Oh, sure they throw stuff onto a platform for the election to try to convince everyone they stand for something but mostly it's a small fraction of former Democrats who come out of the woodwork every 4 years to obfuscate the presidential election with the net end result of taking a handful or votes that would have otherwise gone to a democratic candidate. After this election is over they will vanish again as though they were never there. This has been their modus operandi since their inception.
Eh, I would say that while there isn't a huge amount of alignment between many of Europe's Green parties, they all kinda hate each other for different reasons. The German and UK Greens have gone through a lot of shit over the years for their stances on Israel (way before the conflict), alongside Nuclear energy.
It's often been a long-running joke that the main barrier for the greens in power is themselves. They'd rather attack each other over issues that don't affect the electorate than try to mount a realistic challenge to govern.

Too bad she's a ruzzian shill and supports the whole of Europe being nuked by the orcs

Why can't a Democrat with a lot of money ask her what it would cost

Cuz Putin can outbid all democratic politicians put together
- This notion is probably the must infuriating thing. A foreign head of state can use cash to influence our election overtly with no criminal charge for those involved.

It's so messed up.

Third party candidates. The real threat to america. /s

Will she get any votes? Tune in next time on Election Ball Z!

No joke, I know two people voting for her because they believe it demonstrates people want a third choice. Sigh.
- So they're delusional idiots.
- and they are very much right. current dnc is more pathetic that any republican govt before. they could have won it by landslide by having aoc or even just putting even symbolic sanctions on israel. but they don’t to set a precedent that people’s opinion can be taken into account. instead they continue spitting on us forcing lobbyists controlled genocider to spit on their voters. not everyone is going to fall for this trick third time in a row.

🇷🇺

Jill Stein

🇷🇺

I don't get what this statement is getting at in relation to the above post?

a post I made earlier:

If Harris loses California, New York, Massachusetts, Maryland, Connecticut, Hawaii, Vermont, DC, or Maine-1 because of vote-splitting by Stein, it will be Harris’s fault. If you’re voting in these states, you might as well vote your heart.

https://lemmy.world/post/21147692

The Green party isn't a party worth anyone's heart. It's all a big grift funded by conservatives that only puts any effort into the scammy presidential run. I don't want more of that, I want progressives that challenge moderate Democrats in safe seats to give people a real option to move left.
I'm in Hawaii, and we're solid blue but last election the Greens had a whole of 2 candidates across the entire state. Some random party I'd never heard of had more candidates on the ballot. My state rep won with something like 2000 votes, no Green challenger in sight. If the Greens were a real party they'd jump on that opportunity. A little sweat and door knocking can pull off 2000 votes. Hell, we have Ed fucking Case in Congress. I'd kill to vote against him, but my only other option is a MAGA conspiracy theorist.
The GPUSA isn't a real party.
- wp:2020 United States presidential election in Hawaii#Results
  
  wp:Howie Hawkins
  Howard Gresham Hawkins III[1][2] (born December 8, 1952) is an American trade unionist, environmental activist, and perennial candidate from New York. A co-founder of the Green Party of the United States, Hawkins was the party's presidential nominee in the 2020 presidential election. His ideological platform includes enacting an eco-socialist version of the Green New Deal—which he first proposed in 2010—and building a viable, independent working-class political and social movement in opposition to the country's two major political parties, and capitalism in general.[3]
  
  wp:2024 United States presidential election in Hawaii#Results
  Apparently RFK, Jr isn't on the Hawaiian ballot, though your state has write-ins.
  
  slim pickings here:
  wp:2024 United States House of Representatives elections in Hawaii
  
  however,
  wp:2020 United States House of Representatives elections in Hawaii#Results 2
  Aloha ʻĀina
  Jonathan Hoomanawanui
  6453 votes
  2.37%
  
  wp:Aloha ʻĀina Party
  The Aloha ʻĀina Party (Hawaiian for "love of the land") is a political party in the US state of Hawaiʻi that advocates for the Hawaiian sovereignty movement and the promotion of Native Hawaiian culture.[1][2]
- See this is your issue assuming we give a shit about jill or the green party. 😂
  We dont. it was just a convenient box to tick because harris' campaign tried to remove her from the ballot, and fed their bullhorns the line about splitting the ticket. The vote would still have been cast for a different third party candidate unless Harris' position was corrected. It wasnt so the box gets ticked away.
  Learn to properly focus your political energy: its much easier to get harris to flip than getting a million voters who have morals to flip.
  So unless you want what is happening in gaza: learn to lie to your politicians.
  Tell them you'll vote third party over x.
  Follow through if you're in a deep blue state.
  Hedge your bet by voting Democrats down ballot.
  Always lie to pollsters about your intent for any given candidate. The less reliable polls are the better. Means your letters to your politicians are more important.

I think Europe's Greens can calm down at this point. Trump is doing enough to prevent his own victory. I'm looking forward to Tuesday night, and the ensuing impotent shenanigans the Trumpublicans are going to entertain us with as they piss all over themselves.

Hes actually still projected to win by a lot of stats. For example, the FiveThirtyEight simulated election outcomes LINK and also the 270towin polling map no-tossup LINK
So I guess prep for the dissolution of NATO and the final world war culminating with the end of mankind.
- Or just wait until the election is over, because fretting about these fearful scenarios won't change anything.

Why does she need to do this before the election? They can just form a coalition after the election if Kamala doesn't win

That’s not how the US electoral system works.
This is to elect the President. In a presidential system, as in the US, you choose the leader of the executive portion of government separately from the legislative leader. In a parliamentary system, as many countries in Europe use, the public doesn't choose the leader of the executive portion of government. Instead, they just vote for representatives in the legislative portion, and then those legislators form a coalition (if necessary) and choose a leader of the executive (the prime minister). The closest analog to coalition forming in the presidential election is doing exactly what the Greens are proposing above -- having a candidate drop out and endorse another, with the hopes that they can sway their supporters. It's basically what JFK Jr did, for example, with Trump.
While hypothetically the US could form legislative coalitions, in practice, due to the way the US electoral system works, US parties are essentially equivalent to electoral coalitions in parliamentary systems already -- we already form "big tent" parties necessary to control a house. In the US, the closest analog to this sort of thing actually happening after the elections is when you hear about something like "an independent legislator who caucuses with the Democrats". The US also has weak party discipline compared to many countries in Europe, so legislators are much less constrained to vote along party lines anyway.
Different systems, function kinda differently.
- But I keep hearing how the American system isn't democratic since you don't directly vote for the president, you vote for some middle person who promises to vote for your president? Those people might not be members of the parliment but they can still form coalitions after the fact by voting for who has a chance to win
The US doesn't really do coalitions. In Congress we kind of do, but since the presidency is elected by the citizens, not like a prime minister being elected out of the legislature, they only have their own party membership.
- Ie. All elections are for single member districts using a first past the post system, which means only one person can win and any vote for someone who isn’t in the top two is pretty much a waste.
  It’s a shitty system.

ah if only they could also ask harris to tell israel to stop bombing medical supplies and food for kids. i mean israel is going to say fook off to us anyway to us. but just issue a statement. is that too much too ask ? they can still kill any kids and civilians they can get their hands on but atleast don’t let them starve to death ?

the extent of indecency of both campaigns. god i hope there is a hell in afterlife.

seems like you eat up the propaganda full spoon
- are her own interviews also propaganda ?
  https://youtu.be/KikC4Bm8FXc

If she didn't her Votes wouldn't go to Harris lol. If people don't want to Vote Dem they aren't going vote Dem. Harris has had all the time in the world to put effort into courting voters the same way she did Republicans. I plan on voting Third Party only for future elections. I want nothing to do with people who excuse genocide and link up with Dick Cheney.

Your heart is in the right place. I'm right there with you, but I voted Harris because the system doesn't count my heart being in the right place, the two party system doesn't acknowledge me. My vote won't matter much anyways, since Seattle is going blue no matter what. But blowing up the popular vote to make it clear Americans don't want trump meant more than a lost third party vote. But next time, as long as it's not Maga on the ballot, I don't want anything to do with big Dem.
- dnc not getting enough popular votes is still something that will have impact. else they will just say that we have voted for genocide and endless coroprate greed
Trump thanks you for your vote, and I hope that you are among the first groups they round up.
- I hope that you are among the first groups they round up.
  Most empathetic liberal.
- So you want someone to be "rounded up" because of how they are exercising their right to vote, but you aren't using that same time and energy to push your candidate to change positions to get said vote? This is the embodiment of blue maga lol
- Ask Dick Cheney to tell Harris to changer her Border Policy and stop genocide and I'll vote for her next time. :) I don't care you subservient peon. I'm not standing with Dick Cheney or Liberals anymore. You don't hate Republicans enough. You're literally fine with right-wing policy if a (D) is doing it.

I think from a third party point of view that makes no sense. It's not for her to prop up the broken electoral system. Harris is essentially the lesser evil in this argument, but the real problem is the electoral system.

Arguably the "better" outcome for third parties is for Harris to win the popular vote and lose the election because of the stupid electoral college system. That may actually get Democrats more serious about electoral reform which would benefit everyone. They've already lost twice despite winning the popular vote (Gore and H Clinton). Yet they continue to support broken electoral systems across the country at national and state level as all they care about is Dem vs Rep. Not actual democracy.

The Democrats didn't even have a proper primary contest in this election, they value democracy so little. They tried to forced Biden on the party and voters and it blew up spectacularly. The party needs a shake up and frankly losing may be better for them than Harris saving them from the party's own disastrous mismanagement.

I'm no fan of trump, but Americas problems run far deeper and are far more systemic than one election.

So voting for a hand puppet with no serious program, credentials, infrastructure to govern is better? Stein has no ambitions to make american do anything better, else she would be front and center actually doing something between election cycles.. but she does not. If anything you have more risks, cause in the case she would magically win, who would become het cabinet? You have no clue who and what they stand for.... And that should worry you ... A lot.
The electoral system will be fixed if Trump wins. He will just dissolve it and end the election process. Voila! Reform!
🙄
and giving trump his seat back is only going to deepen them
While the electoral college is problematic, it isn’t relevant in this regard. First past the post is the issue.
- FPTP plus winner-take-all. WTA needs to go away at the same time FPTP does.
If you're an internet rando, and don't understand the broken game theory behind FPTP, then you're an idiot. It's obvious!
If you're a candidate, and don't understand the broken game theory behind FPTP, then that's fine, you're not playing dumb or anything. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go kick that football.

It wouldn’t be this close if Harris just came out against the genocide in Gaza. Instead she has shunned Arab and Muslim voters.

I am in Pennsylvania and I am voting for Jill Stein. Everything I could have done to communicate my grievances I have tried, including meeting with my representative who just insulted me instead of even feigning humanitarian concern.

I am in Pennsylvania
Press X to doubt.
- x
- These foreign discourse accounts really are putting in work. Anyone that can rub two braincells together can see through this bag faith argument.
If you vote for Jill Stein, you're voting for Trump.
It really wouldn't be. Trump would be clearly winning if she did that.
It wouldn’t be this close if Harris just came out against the genocide in Gaza
It'd be worse. Do you have any idea how much damage AIPAC would do? The majority of americans are siding with Israel. She'd get called a terrorist simp before she even finished her speech. It would be an unmitigated shit show.
I wish the american public was wiser, and recognizing how evil Israel is. But that's not the world we live in.
It wouldn’t be this close if Harris just came out against the genocide in Gaza
You're right. If she had done that, she would be losing and it wouldn't even be close.
Why do you think she'd gain more voters than loose by changing her stance on Israel? There are clearly people out there who support Israel otherwise it wouldn't even be up for debate. I haven't seen anything indicating she'd pick up more voters by changing her stance (which is still better than Trumps).
- I can't imagine the votes she'd gain for denouncing the war on Gaza would be bigger than the votes she'd lose for going against Israel.

People really need to stop assuming every Stein voter is a stolen Harris vote. I’d rather stay home than vote for Harris.

I suspect the actual pushback is to prevent the Greens from reaching the 5% voter threshold, and making them a more viable party.

This is you. You're the middle path. It's the scenic route to the worst outcome.
- now redo the meme with harris at lever and put not sucking up to lobbyists & mim in the first track. we shouldn’t even be debating about this as requirement to be worthy of being a president.
- You need a few more rail forks downstream represent the groups getting protected by local governments. Which is the reality many states.
  Which also allows you to make more informed decisions.
Everyone gets downvoted from time to time. In this case the reason is that you’re pro Trump. Perhaps not in philosophy but certainly in action. Which is all that matters.
- By that logic, Kamala Harris is pro-Trump for her actions driving away voters.
3 hs account 🤔
Please don't kill me, I'm not american here.
- I was permabanned from Reddit today for my lack of sympathy for Liz Cheney. Figured I’d check out lemmy.
  Not going well so far. Already banned from politicalmemes for disturbing the pro-Harris echo chamber.
Tell me you don't understand a first past the post voting system without telling me.
For real though, you sound like an idealist, a perfectionist, who lets good be the enemy of perfect. I don't think you actually want a conversation - you want others to hear your voice and opinion.
- They understand FPTP. They know what they're doing here.
Yep.
But you're in lemmy.world, and the commenters here are just looking to pick fights with rational thoughts like yours.
They are scared and are lashing out; I get it. But it's still not okay. Randos telling you you're supporting Trump is disingenuous garbage. They won't care that you still voted in congressional races and local issues.
I appreciate comments such as yours. Please don't be dissuaded from making them in the future.
- "Rational thoughts"
  "A vote for a third party candidate in an election with two viable candidates doesn't benefit the party I'm least aligned with."
  Choose one. Both can't be true.
  Ah, shit, I forgot... you lot are awful at understanding how binary decisions work.