Hit one year since graduation. Still unemployed. Still super fuckin bummed about it, still super worried about the future.
Learn to code, everybody said. There's so many jobs, and they pay well. Dumbass me fell for the bait. Graduated with a degree in computer science a year and a week ago. Didn't get any internships because I didn't realize how important they are. Graduated with a 2.3 GPA because I always heard people don't care about your GPA once you graduate. If you're generous and cut out the hours from when I failed out of college the first time, it's a 2.6.
I've applied to over a thousand jobs by now. Almost entirely entry level, but I took shots at some nonspecified experience level postings once I got more desperate. I've managed to get two interviews. To add insult to injury, one of the interviewers said that their main concern with me was that I'd move on to a new job in a year or two. I couldn't do that if I wanted to, man. I'm so burnt out on how bad applying for shit sucks when I know most of these companies are throwing my application in the trash in less than 5 seconds.
I've been able to stay stable so far. I live with my parents, who are the best parents I could ever ask for. They're understanding, supportive, and want to help how they can. No worries on the living expenses front, at least, but it's not a situation that can last. In the long term, obviously, they're not gonna be around forever. In the short term, it's just going to drive me completely insane. I've used my leftover student loans and a generous graduation gift from my uncle for the non-essential stuff and managed to limit my spending to about $100 a month, but the well will dry up on that front, too.
All this is to say that I don't think I can get a job with my degree. A year long gap is a bad sign on an already weak resume. Soon it'll be as good as if I had never gone to school in the first place after I spent years forcing myself through math classes I tore my hair out over (why was this 75% of my degree again?) I've tried doing some independent game development to maybe transition in that direction, but I can't force myself to do it because the whole time I just feel like I'm wasting time I should be spending looking for a "real" job. My parents have frequently encouraged me to go get a master's while I wait for the job market to improve. After telling them for months that I didn't want to sink any more money in education (read: training) until it showed some returns, I caved and started looking into grad programs. Looks like I couldn't do it if I wanted to because lmao 2.3 GPA. I'm confident I could get a great score on the GRE, I've always done pretty fantastic on that kind of test. It's the one academic skill I have that I can brag about, honestly. But the GRE for Math would kick my ass into next week, and I'm pretty certain most MS in CS programs would want me to take it.
So I can't get a job in my major, I'm too neurotic to do anything on my own, my grades are too shit to get a graduate degree. I'm 28 now and not getting any younger. I'm beyond sick of being dependent on others. But what else can I do? Service jobs suck tremendously and don't pay enough for me to live off of anyways, especially around where I live. It'd be equivalent of choosing to live in poverty. Every road seems closed off to me. I don't know what I can do to make my way through life and I feel like even if I did, I'd be too much of a coddled loser to take that path.
Sorry for turning it into a blog, I'm basically just some random failson whining. Anybody relate?
Edit: Thanks for the replies, everybody. Feeling a little bit less down. Probably gonna try and make some contributions to a FOSS project and get a job at a grocery store or something while I still live at home.
You are entering the job market at a bad time, unfortunately. Many places are under hiring freezes still and have likely done recent layoffs that likely disproportionately impacted more jr workers.
The GPA doesnt matter once youve got a job or two under your belt but before that they dont have much to go on and particularly in this market they can be choosey. I would suggest doing open source projects and contribute to open source projects you use. This will keep you learning new things with the added benefit of producing materials you can talk about on your resume.
Yeah, this was pretty much how I landed my first software development job. It was at a small mom-and-pop company, and I brought in my laptop to the interview to show off code samples from some game dev projects I had been working on.
Honestly, having been on a hiring committee, the most important thing you can do (if you land an interview) is to do your research about the company. Pretend you're joining a cult, and you have to learn their Masonic sigils and secret handshakes from the outside.
It can work but companies are wise to this. They'll ask what projects you worked on and with what clients. You can say it's all under NDA but that will only get you so far since you can still talk about the projects in very general terms like "used technology X, deployed webservices, wrote code in language Y", etc.
It's time to start lying on your resume. I literally can't code better than your average highschool graduate but I know enough about the industry and job to lie my ass off and I study a lot to pass these leetcode, system design, and behavioral interview questions. I work on some super complex financial systems I can't understand at all but hey, I'm still employed for now until they decide to PIP me
Im university educated, have been unemployed for years in the past while looking for work in my field, and now work in the same job that I had when I was 16. its helpful to at least have a place to go, people to speak to, a routine and a space to organise in, its good for you.
revolutionary optimism doesnt always come easily, dont lose hope comrade.
I was in a similar situation: unemployed for 2 years after college, eventually just bit the bullet and got a min-wage job (thankfully not customer-facing). A year later I got a job actually in my field entirely through nepotism. I don't know what to say, other than death to america, burn this blighted system to the ground.
Hang in there, was in the same situation early 2000 during the it-bust. Keep some job and reeducate if needed. If you like coding, keep at it for fun while your not in an energyzapping corporation. Your time will come and there is more to life than work (dumb as it sounds and I know it's no fun having to rely on others)
Honestly, I don't dislike coding, but I don't like it enough to do it over most other hobbies. It would definitely fall more into the category of unpaid work than something I do for fun. I suppose it's mostly something I have to deal with. The suggestions here seem to lean towards contributing to an open source project or, if I really can't do that, keeping up with my game dev. Appreciate the encouragement. I'm sure I'll keep chugging, I just feel like the frustration boils over more easily the longer this keeps up. Being able to post stuff like this and the encouragement people give in response genuinely do help me keep from like I'm trapped in an asylum.
I've tried doing some independent game development to maybe transition in that direction, but I can't force myself to do it because the whole time I just feel like I'm wasting time I should be spending looking for a "real" job.
I think efforts along these lines are good. I personally wouldn't choose indie game dev unless you really feel the need to express yourself artistically, but FOSS contribution is a great way to split your time while job hunting. This has many benefits, from building out your network to practicing your skills (which need development, fresh grads are basically useless professionally for a few years) to giving you something to actually work on that other people care about and not sink into the black hole of feeling like you're useless. If you're good at self-motivating then a few years of FOSS contribution is much, much, much better than a masters in CS that you take to kill time. The only reason I would do a masters (which is IMO totally useless in CS) is to get an internship through the school program. Which certainly is valuable; work experience is the #1 thing you are missing from your resume.
I'm closing in on a year unemployed after getting laid off. It's hard out here, and don't let anyone tell you different just because the stock market is up.
I know you're hesitant on extra education, but it doesn't have to be a masters or grad program. There's often certificates out there that might help you stand out with much lower time and monetary investments and get you in somewhere. Maybe part-time work to build up savings/contribute to household while you knock one of those out would be manageable?
I hear that from time to time but I'm never really sure what to do with that. I never see job postings that list a certification in the requirements or preferred qualifications outside of maybe some IT jobs, and they're usually pretty hyper-specific. Have any suggestions on certs and where to take them?
I know for IT and helpdesk stuff CompTIA is the standard, and according one reddit thread IT/helpdesk can be a path forward for programmers who didn't land an internship during undergrad
it took me a year back in 2014 to get my first job out of college, basically as a QA/basic scripting person. I got completely lucky with it because a recruiter on one of those job sites like Indeed reached out to me with it. A big bonus you can add to your resume is to have open source projects you have contributed to on it, that you can talk about at length during the interview. That will make you stand out from the other applicants.
Regardless, yeah the job market for programmers has been pretty terrible this past year or two. It sucks. I would probably not go further in debt for a masters; maybe just do lots of open source work you can put on a resume. I personally did a lot of work on emulators like ppsspp and citra
This thread has mostly convinced me to lean more towards open source contributions than a masters, yeah. I don't know what you did on citra, I've used it to emulate a few gens of Pokemon, so thanks for your work!
I had the same situation when I graduated. I ended up finding a technical sales-related job that sucked but led to a better position. Then I got laid off and couldnβt find another similar job for a long time until I got one through a recruiter and had to move states again. Some advice I have:
Use recruiters. Not just for your situation, but in my experience going through recruiters is a much easier way to find and get jobs since they have relationships with these companies and know how to navigate the process. They can also basically coach you through the interviews so that you have a leg up on most people who would apply directly through the company. They also are better at negotiating pay and benefits and can help you there as well. I think all of the recruiters Iβve dealt with I found on LinkedIn (the paid job seeker thing puts you on their lists, or you can search directly and message them) and also Iβd look for technical recruiting agencies and sign up on their websites.
Be willing to move - Some job markets are better than others and being willing to move for a job gives you a lot more options. On the other hand, Iβve moved way too often and havenβt really been able to settle down anywhere and make any good real life friends, which sucks, but what are you gonna do. I have my pup to keep me company at least, and you all too of course.
Embellish your resume - You donβt want to blatantly lie about your qualifications and put yourself in a risky position, but Iβd definitely say you should exaggerate as much as you can get away with without arousing suspicion. ChatGPT is very helpful for this.
Sort of related, also tailor your resume and cover letter to the job description of where youβre applying and using the same key words and phrases, since that will make it more likely youβll get through the automated software screening and to an actual interview.
Be flexible and look for opportunities that others might ignore. For example, maybe also look for programming jobs in areas like manufacturing, health care, small businesses, etc. and not just software companies. Sounds like youβre probably already doing this, though.
Iβm not a software dev but Iβve used hobby projects a bit in the past as a way to βdemonstrate skillsβ when I had not much experience but wanted to pad my resume any way I could. Some hobby like 3D printing for example isnβt that big of a deal as far as a skill, but I was able to fluff it up quite a bit to my advantage. Seems like software would make hobby projects easier to get into, given you donβt need buy a bunch of stuff besides having a computer. Also sites like Coursera and edX have free classes that include projects that can be also be useful for this sort of thing.
Sorry for the wall of text here. Iβm sure youβre already doing a lot of this already but I hope at least some of it is helpful.
i'm at 10 years since graduation and the only jobs i've had since then were pizza delivery and doordash. Liberal Arts instead of coding though so i was always doomed. my 'plan' for whenever i lose access to free housing (i.e. when/if my parents kick me out) is to just be homeless until i die, which will probably not take long.
Took me over a year to land my first job too. Iβm doing quite well for myself now, so itβs painful to remember that there was a time not that long ago when I was full of self-loathing and doubt, questioning my intelligence and inherent value.
Marxism is about more than exploitation and surplus value. It includes the subjective human experience within capitalism, the alienating aspects of capitalist society. You are unfortunately experiencing this hard right now. I canβt promise anything for you, other than that things can turn around suddenly and quickly.
I don't miss the promises things will surely get better for me, I've known those are mostly empty for a long time now. If anything, it's encouraging to hear people drop them without going full doomer like so many people do. The undeniably spiritual component of even the most orthodox Marxism very often gets overlooked. I found a lot of solace in Matt Christman's cushvlogs for that reason.
How many applications did you send out to get the first job? Did you have to grind DSA practice problems for the interviews? I sent (spammed) about 400 in the past few months and only got 1 interview which rejected anyways. I haven't graduated yet, so if I can't find anything I was going to do what OP's parents recommend and try to finish a CS MA.
How do you feel about joining the trades? I was unemployed for years for various reasons. I signed up for a class a few months ago and have been working now for two months. The situation where I live at least is that people are desperate for workers. If you use boomer methods (call nearby businesses and ask if theyβll train you) some might say yes.
I took a free five-week class to become an apprentice oil burner technician but I later found out that I didnβt even have to. If you call local businesses they will tell you if theyβre willing / able to train you or not. Some (particularly those with signs out front saying they are looking for workers) might be desperate enough to take you. Try to work for a bigger company so you have less of a chance of getting screwed. (Smaller businesses tend to be poorly and incompetently organized and run by bosses who will steal your wages.) The job is physical and dirty and itβs fucking oil but itβs far from the worst job Iβve had and I feel like thereβs a lot of job security and potential for growth. It can also just be a gateway into the blue collar world.
Never found nothing, been working retail for 15 years since I graduated. I've tried going back to school to try out teaching, but my head isn't in that place anymore. And I got a job teaching students English, but the pay was worse than retail once you factored in needing to spend hours on prep and assessment and left me an exhausted wreck, who was also still working 12 hours of retail.
fret not, having a job is just as bad as not having a job, only for different reasons. this level of misery is your reality until you die (or retire (lmao))
not really. being unemployed is miserable and is designed to lead to depression and ultimately suicide. jobs - or at least all the jobs i've ever had - are also designed to lead to depression and suicide. different routes to the same destination
I really empathize with katz who got their degrees and graduated into this mess of job market. The game is all fucked up, it's been fucked up, but I'd say it's uniquely fucked up in a way I haven't seen it fucked up since maybe 2009.
Took me 4 years to find substitute teaching with a heavily altered resume, I made up bullshit jobs for every gap year and had relatives or rando people I knew online be my references. Then when I moved to rural chudlandia 4yrs later I couldn't even do that since I'm trans, so I work part time retail, and it was a total beast to get that job with an even more doctored resume (I made my dabbling nerd haxaday sort hobbies into jobs to cover my 7 years worth of gaps), also with a STEAM degree, they indeed did lie to us. Usually most places don't ask for your GPA. My GPA was good (silly retail job asked for it, they're among the higher paid retails gigs here, so they can do really silly things), but being a transfer student and poor made getting internships difficult in college. I was so broke I could only apply to one school for grad school and the bourgeois scum had the mindless cheek to tell me after I drove 8hrs one way there I should backpack EU, like they totally paid 0 attention to my app. My competitors flew in, where well rested etc, me? Nah man, nah. Wish I knew the class aspect of gradschool in STEAM going in was that strong. I had some bad poverty, like in collections for years over a under 50 dollar medical bill, 0 money, something people like that will never understand. When a dollar is basically a gold nugget, when a bus fare is impossible, etc.
Its weird to see people my age who have careers and such here in chudland, with no education, in CA everyone seemed to be equally hosed. Its an inversion of how Gen Y was told, go to college get a job, go to tradeschool etc, that plumber is my coworker and the dude that dropped out of highschool is going full Kevin on both of us as we try to ring up his purchase of a good third of the store.
Back when I graduated I was told if you had one response per 1000 job apps your resume was solid. So many terrible interview stories. My family is understanding since they had trouble finding jobs too, but again same issue they won't live forever. I've always had to pay rent in some form, either giving them all my food stamps or selling what little I beer money I came up on Mturk or something. They'd always help with a place to stay at least, but beyond that I was always on my own, which was hard.
12years out, another 12 years assuming I'm not murdered by chuds fast nor slow things will be exactly the same, still not even surviving getting older and sicker, I've long lost hope of even slight personal economic improvement, best I can do is help others and lil homies maybe succeed and learn as much theory and repeat it on. Take some slack at work for the college kids so they can study sort deal and provide poverty survival 101 tips. Funniest thing is in the city the nearest 'orgs' saw my degree and required wildin fees, I suspect they were scammy but damn sib, in all my years working I still haven't met a year of the dues they were asking, I would have to live to 200 to be able to. I haven't been active in anything since college because of that when I lived in the city, legit orgs were hella far away, and now I'm so rural there's pretty much nothing. So its basically be a book shelf help in an old school universal nice sort of way, which is fine and all but only does so much.
I'd first reccomend a schedule so you don't fall into despair as fast, that's the hardest, then a vpn and a big book, game and movie list, along with your study plans, there's a place for all of it. I like to do a review of my area every year or so, though it does like 0 good and no one's going to believe me, its some weird paradox, when being education benefits me everyone believes the fancy degree from fancy school is fake, but when it hurts me everyone totally buys it. Don't let gap years deter you, they're trivial to cover if you're in any country that doesn't do job verification. Lie your ass off, whoever is hiring will, do the same back.
Overall, not worth the paper it was printed on. I personally love whining about this, don't blame you.
I do programming and have had a career for the last 12 years. The field is so much different and far more rotten than when I started, and it wasn't really great then either. I have been unemployed since being furloughed last January and I have had peanuts since then. My wife could not find a min wage service job for months and months; we watched a 7/11 go from denying her application after seeing a help wanted sign to shutting down a few weeks later, and I think that is a perfect encapsulation of how things are right now. The owners would rather the ship go down than throw a bone to workers for everyone's benefit post-2020. This is the worst job market/economy I have ever lived through. I have no idea how young graduates are expected to survive this. I'm so sorry I don't have any answers, but this is not just a "you" thing. People with my level of experience and more are massively struggling right now too, and don't listen to anyone telling you everything is fine. That dude on his 12th covid infection is "fine", too. I can only hope something gives soon.
I hear people saying the programming job market will improve in the US from the low of the 2022 and 2023 era FANG firings, but why would the US job market improve? I don't see why all those programmers with work experience would be removed from circulation and fresh grads still will compete with them. What would change for the market to improve? The Silicon Valley Bank collapse and bailout way back in March 2023 is probably going to cause less startups to be funded in the long run and solidify FANG monopolies in the US even more. Now that the lock downs have been over for a while, I predict the population is going to be lowering usage of social media over the next few years if they haven't already, lowering demand. I would expect the job market to worsen in the long run, not improve, much less return to the 2019-2022 glory days. In the US the only programming field I see that is growing is the AI and GPT stuff.
Don't forget all the offshoring. My company has laid off dozens, if not hundreds of teams just so they can replace them all in India and Brasil. Most companies hiring nowadays has more India positions than US ones
Mostly because the capitalist system needs new markets. It's a requirement of the system. Most of the real new avenues for capital have already been exploited, so we've seen most of them in the past few decades be invented in tech. Presumably, this will continue to be true in the future. If interest rates go back down, then it's likely there'll be another boom. So long as capital thinks it has a new market, real or fabricated, that it can get bigger returns from, it'll bite. That'll involve creating new products from scratch much of the time. Due in part due to racism and in part due to the very real advantages of a shared native language and timezone, I think investors will find an American most desirable if all else is equal. You're right that outsourcing can cut costs, but US programmer salaries also have a lot of space to fall.
Sure, it's entirely possible that things don't improve and that's I'm super fucked, but I have no real way to pick apart the odds of that and even if I knew for sure, I don't have much I could do to act on the information in a favorable way that I can't do later down the line.
You want some terrible advice? Get an emt certification. If you are in a populated state you can get one in a single college simester and it looks great on a resume. The work is mostly just driving with the occasional heavy lifting. The job gives you ptsd so people always quit and you can get hired easily. It is soul crushing but it sounds like capitalism already has you there.
For tech, the 2nd resume wins 9/10 times. 2 columns suck cause it doesn't have a good flow for eye movement. And unless the job requires design skills the aesthetics is distracting. -> What I've learned from lots of recruiters and hiring managers
My resume looks like the second (with better whitespace) but I highlight the headings with a nice blue for the eyecatching factor while still maintaining info density and organization
I can't see either image, for some reason, but I've done quite a few revisions to my resume with some help from assorted sources. I got some help from my uni's career center, paid for a resume review from Indeed, asked my Mom who used to work in HR, and visited the CS career subreddit. I finally settled on a single column, minimal "special" formatting with some nice dividing lines. The contact info's in a nice header with the name bolded and in a decent font size. It's a single page, starting with education followed by whatever project experience I could shoehorn in as relevant.
From India, and in the same shitty situation as you. I've graduated at the end of September 2022. From the last six months, I've given up on applying anywhere. And I've whined more than you lol, I'm just so tired now.
My friend that graduated comp Sci gave up after about a year, he just moved to Cali to be a national park ranger and said he got cheap housing with it, it's been tempting me won't lie
What if you lie and pretend you don't have an education at all in order to get some job somewhere to end the work gap on your resume and/or get into an internship while you're living with your parents and more able to deal with the burden of unpaid labor
This is assuming your education is what's making employers be like "oh you'll just leave us soon π"
The education's not it. It was just the one guy. It was the company's CEO who decided to join in on the interview. Part of the application process was taking a cognitive test and a personality test. He told me I was pretty weird on both fronts and started ranting about ambition and how he'd love to hire me but he thinks that I "could end up being the next Steve Jobs and would get bored of the job too fast." I mostly just chalked it up to small business owner brainrot, but I at least got to feel good about what was probably a complement.
I apologize for the baby boomer/rugged individualism but I have kind of a narrow suggestion/advice:
You should look for jobs that don't require interviews and just give you enough to sustain yourself and pay off your loans in the meantime. Obviously don't let your stop-gap be your main career, but in this instance doing nothing is worse than doing something menial.
You can apply to companies like Amazon - I don't think some of the positions even interview - and move within the company after a period of time, even if you start out as a dock/warehouse worker.
(I think Amazon has an internal job/education/vocation programs, placements, and offers too. Amazon itself has high turnover so your commitment issues wouldn't be an issue either.)
Your anxiety goes away in the same way people develop social skills: through interaction and action. It requires painful persistence. You aren't the first person to be in this situation and won't be the last, and while your college didn't help you with job placement perhaps other sectors and companies can. Perhaps there are internships you can apply for; internships are less about jobs training and more about credential-building and professional connections. Look into local government, non-profits, and campaigns as well.
You ultimately have to keep forcing yourself. Get some beta-blocker medication for anxiety if you have to.
While the whole "trains/hires from within" thing does tend to set off a lot of my boomer alerts, I don't think this is bad advice. Especially on the anxiety front, that's more or less how I think of it -- anxiety is fear of something that hasn't happened yet, so if you do the thing you're afraid of, the anxiety will naturally fade, short of an anxiety disorder. But yeah, the stop-gap job is definitely my most likely short-term. Thanks for the advice, Zodiark. Your trial has a banger theme.