A fake Facebook event disguised as a math problem has been one of its top posts for 6 months
A fake Facebook event disguised as a math problem has been one of its top posts for 6 months
This kind of problem falls under "communicating badly and acting smug when misunderstood". Use parenthesis and the problem goes away.
on that note, can we please have parentheses in language. i keep making ambiguous sentences
People try and use commas for this sort of clarification and are eviscerate for it.
With these sort of math problems, the rules are taught early and then all subsequent math is written in an unambiguous form.
Language has the oddity of going the other way around where the rules get more complex as a display for advanced skills.
My language teachers always told me it was bad form to use too much or even to nest parenthesis...
Then I found lisp...
We have them in written language, though?
Isn't that basically what commas are for?
Why (I don't see) not
This is why grammar is important, and "grammar nazis" are the only good kind of nazis.
This kind of problem falls under “communicating badly and acting smug when misunderstood”.
No it doesn't. It falls under adults forgetting the rules of Maths.
Use parenthesis and the problem goes away
There is no problem, other than adults who have forgotten the rules.
Boomers and Xgens need to prove, that they remember basic school math in FB lmao.
Please don't include X with the boomers. Since we stepped into the real world and realized it functions completely differently than what we were raised to believe, life's just been a neverending string of "wait, that was wrong too?" We just want to survive another day under the radar.
Sorry fellow X'rs for publicly acknowledging our existence. Hopefully this post doesn't get any upvotes. *Pulls blanket back over my head.
The first rule of gen-x is you don't talk about gen-x!
As a millennial, I'm starting to relate more and more. The world changes very quickly, and all of the sudden things you knew as fact have different meanings, and there are new words and stuff. It's not all bad change, but it's change, and odds are, I'm finding out something changed the hard way.
The average home buyer in the US 17 years ago was born in 1968. Today? 1968. Yeah excuse me but as an elder millennial, Gen X can mostly fuck right off.
Gen xers? Don't irk them. They're not noticing you right now.
Very independent, and cranky generation.
I was good at math and it was one of my favorite core subjects in school, so I know I'm a weirdo but... I never understood how people couldn't understand basic PEMDAS/BEDMAS/Whatever-the-fuck-your-country-calls-it.
Obviously these problems are shitty engagement bait because they don't use parentheses, but still, seeing people fuck up the fact that Multiplication AND Division occur at the same time, and then the next step is Addition AND Subtraction just stupefies me.
Like, did you sleep through 4 years of elementary school to miss that fact??? Even in middle school pre-algebra teachers still did PEMDAS refreshers. I get that once I get out of college I'm probably gonna forget half the pre-calc shit I learned because I won't need it, and I'm not being drilled on it everyday like people in school are, but PEMDAS is a fundamental and basic daily life skill that everyone should know...
I really wish we gave a fuck about US education.
I was bad at math, but I still managed to get through precal and still remember PEMDAS
For me it's the arguments when there is a parentheses but no operator (otherwise known as implied multiplication) in these baits e.g. 15 + 2(4 - 2)
If you don't know operator orders I have given up long ago, but I have seen a few lengthy discussions about this
Oh yeah, that's a fun one.
Where I live, this would be considered juxtaposition, at least by uni professors and scientific community, so 2(4-2) isn't the same as 2×(4-2), even though on their own they're equal.
This way, equations such as 15/2(4-2) end up with a definite solution.
So,
15/2(4-2) = 3.75
While
15/2×(4-2) = 15
Usually, however, it is obvious even without assuming juxtaposition because you can look at previous operations. Not to mention that it's most common with variables (Eg. "2x/3y").
For me it’s the arguments when there is a parentheses but no operator (otherwise known as implied multiplication)
No, it's known as Factorised Terms/Products, solved via The Distributive Law, a(b+c)=(ab+ac). "implied multiplication" is a made up rule by people who have forgotten the actual rules, and often they get it wrong (because, having wrongly called it "multiplication", they then wrongly give it the precedence of multiplication, not brackets).
I never understood how people couldn’t understand basic PEMDAS/BEDMAS/Whatever-the-fuck-your-country-calls-it.
There's no "whatever-the-fuck-your-country-calls-it", the US is the only country using it, and only up to high school. At least I'm not seeing any papers coming out of the US relying on it so at some point they're dropping it and do what everyone else is doing: Write equations such that you don't need a left-to-right rule to disambiguate things. Also, using multiplication by juxtaposition (2x + 4x2).
There’s no “whatever-the-fuck-your-country-calls-it”
Yes there is. BEDMAS, BODMAS, and BIDMAS
the US is the only country using it
No they're not.
at some point they’re dropping it
No, at no point do the order of operations rules ever get dropped
using multiplication by juxtaposition (2x + 4x2)
They're called Terms/Products.
Anyone on Facebook that attempts to answer this or engage within its comments has already failed the test.
Anyone on Facebook that attempts to answer this or engage within its comments has already failed the test.
"Hey, this is Presh Talwalkar.
Discussion of a brief history of this viral math problem, followed by explanations of common incorrect answers. Ultimately followed by brief discussion on the order of operations, concluding in a final example that equals 11
And that's the answer. Thank you so much for making us one of the best communities on YouTube, where we solve the world's problems, one video at a time."
Hey, this is Presh Talwalkar
Person who has forgotten about The Distributive Law and lied about 1917.
Discussion of a brief history of this viral math problem
Including lying about 1917
Ultimately followed by brief discussion on the order of operations
But forgets about Terms and The Distributive Law.
And that’s the answer
Now watch his other ones, where he screws it up royally. Dude has no idea how to handle brackets. Should be avoided at all costs.
I've seen many of his videos and haven't noticed any obvious errors. Could you please link to the specific video(s) that you are referencing in regards to errors he has made, especially those related to the distributive law and what you reference to as "1917," as well as any explanation as to what is incorrect/misleading/lying?
This is the kind of post designed to invoke a reaction. Facebook's and pretty much every other algorithm driven social media is designed to promote posts that have high interaction. So a post that invokes lots of negative reactions gets lots of promotion. Hence the downfall of modern society.
Arguing about maths is like dancing to architecture.
Hey, some architecture is asking for it like Stonehenge
So order of operations is hard?
The issue normally with these "trick" questions is the ambiguous nature of that division sign (not so much a problem here) or people not knowing to just go left to right when all operators are of the same priority. A common mistake is to think division is prioritised above multiplication, when it actually has the same priority. Someone should have included some parenthesis in PEDMAS aka. PE(DM)(AS) 😄
The same priority operations can be done in any order without affecting the result, that's why they can be same priority and don't need an explicit order.
6 × 4 ÷ 2 × 3 ÷ 9 evaluates the same regardless of order. Can you provide a counter example?
Another common issue is thinking "parentheses go first" and then beginning by solving the operation beside them (mostly multiplication). The point being that what's inside the parentheses goes first, not what's beside them.
The issue normally with these “trick” questions
There's no "trick" - it's a straight-out test of Maths knowledge.
the ambiguous nature of that division sign
Nothing ambiguous about it. The Term of the left divided by the Term on the right.
A common mistake is to think division is prioritised above multiplication
It's not a mistake. You can do them in any order you want.
when it actually has the same priority
Which means you can do them in any order
Yeah and I’m tired of pretending it’s not!
Next they're going to have an epic debate on whether work done by the system is positive or negative and are all going to feel really smart and passionate about it. Like one of those Science vs Religion debate clubs from the 2000s
So order of operations is hard?
Not for students it isn't. Adults who've forgotten the rules on the other hand...
So if it's not really an event
And it's not really a math problem
What the hell is it??
Engagement bait
Entertainment.
The only thing that will remain on yt anyway after AI has taken over the content generation and we can trust no "creator" anymore.
What's the scam?
Not strictly a scam, but there's a little money to be made creating viral content on Facebook. They receive a tiny portion of the ad revenue from Facebook when they generate engagement.
It's just Facebook sucking really.
Thanks 🙏
11
OK, it's been a few hours. I'll do the clumsy thing that everyone else has avoided and point out that it's deliberately set up so that people who have never heard of operator precedence - those who do things purely left-to-right - don't get a weird fraction when the division step is done, making them think that the answer they've reached must be the right one. You'd still get a handful who'd argue regardless, but that whole number ropes in a whole bunch more.
Couple that with the fact that the value reached this way doesn't match the value obtained from using operator precedence and you get arguments about what the right answer is. And a comment like the one you're reading right now that's too long for the hard-of-thinking to read.
"More engagement, baybee [sunglasses smiley emoji] [cash bag emoji]" etc.
Every one of these only makes me say "wouldn't it be great if we did everything with RPN"?
This thread shows that a whole bunch of people need to start taking online education courses. Getting back your algebra skills, some science perhaps, communication, history, etc.
I don't know where you can get a proper education for that after grade school, but I see Brilliant.org advertised a lot.
Ah, yes. It's only for genius.
÷ could be a minus sign, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_sign?wprov=sfla1
Except that it has English text above it...
÷ could be a minus sign
No it couldn't.
Did you check the reference? It says % can be used as a minus sign, not the obelus. Welcome to what happens when you're next-door neighbour Joe Blow can edit Wikipedia.
I'm sure we're all geniuses here, but just in case...
Please excuse my dear aunt Sally.
Parenthesis, exponents, multiplication, division, addition, subtraction.
Why? Because a bunch of dead Greeks say so!
3x3-3÷3+3
(3x3)-(3÷3)+3
9-1+3
8+3
11
I guess remembering grade school order of operation means you're a guinus now? Bar has gotten pretty low...
And it will go even lower as people start relying mpre on AI...
That's the point.
Set the bar low, but just high enough that tons of people still trip over it.
Sit back and enjoy the comment wars.
The people who are confident but wrong are too proud to admit they were wrong even if they realize it, and comment angrily.
The people who are right and know why, comment for corrections and some to show off how S-M-R-T they are.
The people who are wrong but willing to accept that just have their realization and probably don't think about it again. So do the people who don't know and/or care.
But those first two groups will keep the post going in both shares and comments, because "look at all these wrong people"
It's all designed to boost engagement.
G U I N U S.
I know it's probably a typo, but I'm enjoying it.
For the programmers: operator precedence.
Not a genius. But if subtraction is last, why isn't it 9-4?
Because its not really "1 plus 3", its negative 1 plus 3 which is two. I know it seems a little weird but the minus sign is " tied" to the thing following it.
should actually be
Addition and subtraction are given the same priority, and are done in the same step, from left to right.
It's not a great system of notation, it could be made far clearer (and parenthesis allow you to make it as clear as you like), but it's essentially the universal standard now and it's what we're stuck with.
Addition/subtraction work out the same regardless of how you order the operations. If you do subtraction last you start with the original:
9-1+3
and you are adding 3 to the result of (9-1). Since you are trying to perform it before the (9-1) operation is carried out, you can add 3 to the 9:
12-1 = 11
or you can add three to the -1 and get:
9+2 = 11
You only end up with 9-4 if you were subtracting 3 rather than adding three. It all becomes more obvious if you read the original as:
9 + (-1) + 3
The "why" goes a little further than that.
In actuality, it's because of fundamental properties of operations
a + b = b + a
a×b = b×a
(a + b) + c = a + (b + c)
(a×b)×c = a×(b×c)
a + 0 = a
a×1 = a
If you know that, then PEMDAS and such are useless because they're derived from those properties but do not fully encompass them.
Eg.
3×2×(2+2) = 3×(4+4) = 12+12 = 24
This is a correct solution that is improper if you're strictly adhering to PEMDAS rule as I've done multiplication before parenthesis from right to left.
I could even go completely out of order by doing 3×2×(2+2) = 2×(6+6) and it will still be correct
Multiplication and Division, and Addition and Subtraction are executed at the same level and done in left to right order.
The Greeks certainly didn't come up with PEMDAS. US teachers too lazy to teach kids actual maths did. And that's before taking into account that the Greeks didn't come up with Algebra.
What’s lazy about learning PEMDAS? And what’s the non-lazy/superior way?