The US government is investigating China’s breakthrough smartphone

But he said the launch also raises questions around how Huawei managed to launch the phone when it has spent the past four years under US restrictions banning access to 5G technology. “While access to 5G for the chipset is one thing, I’m not sure how the company managed to source all the other components that need to go into a 5G smartphone, such as power amps, switches and filters,” he said.

Love that America's 21st century cold war is fully predicated on the assumption that China does not have the ability to develop its own productive capacity.

Huawei is literally one of the cocreators of 5G
- yeah, don't really understand the shock here
  the whole policy really seems... stupid. Like, we've kinda hit a plateau with microchips and CPUs. Any smaller and you start getting quantum interference and the board becomes useless. So why is the stated strategy to prevent innovation on this front? What difference does it make? Either US leaders are fighting last century's battle and assuming this is perfectly analogous to the Soviet computer industry, or it's a distraction for something more covert.
  But... I don't really know what the latter could be. I'm half convinced we're just not capable of that kind of thing anymore, that all the old heads have retired and all our clandestine institutions are staffed by their starry-eyed children. People with the right connections and none of the skills.
outsource the construction of absolutely everything to China
confused as to how China makes Things
- theft?
- and liberals et al continuing to carry on a proud legacy of white supremacy by insisting that countries predominantly populated by non-white peoples are too fucking stupid to do anything for themselves without outside help
Love that America's 21st century cold war is fully predicated on the assumption that China does not have the ability to develop its own productive capacity.
That's why they keep implementing these sanctions. The people running this country genuinely cannot believe that Chinese people / companies / organizations / leadership are capable of cutting - edge innovation.
I wonder when it will sink in that they were wrong. Will it be when all of our drones and missiles fall out of the sky due to Chinese jamming if we go to war? Will it be when there is a Chinese flag on the moon? On Mars? When the dust settles and the blood has soaked into the earth and the world settles into some kind of post - apocalyptic state if climate change is ever brought under a modicum of control, will Anglos crawl from their huts and cough as they shake their fists across the Pacific at a nation with hydrogen energy and scream that they stole it?
- It will not sink in this generation. Perhaps in a hundred years.
  But that will just be the reality they are born into. The sad thing is these ghouls will never accept they were wrong unless they end up being strung up by a mob.
- when did it sink in for brits that they're no longer the empire? dont hold your breath... :D

I can't tell if this is the usual coordinated anti-China prop or a big ad buy from Huawei, because the net effect is I really want a Huawei phone now

The phone is 1000+ USD
- Yeah that's sort of the floor for flagship phones. That's why I'm ten generations behind 😎
- still cheaper than the top tier iphone & samsung phones lol

I think that the US government must be freaking out right now because I suspect they had a strategy to hamper the Chinese military tech development by cutting off their supply of cutting-edge semiconductors, and it looks like their plan may be starting to fall apart.

I'm trying to figure out whether this is a good thing because it will provide China with more deterrence, should it be a mass produced domestic semiconductor which is catching up on the best semiconductors that Taiwan and the west can produce, or if it's bad news because it will encourage the US to accelerate their plans for war with China.

I guess I just hope that China can break ahead and reach escape velocity before the US can advance to the point where it feels ready to execute its plans for war.

US is already unable to defeat China in a war. hypersonic missiles are one thing, but China has several other advantages. the PLA Navy has more ships than the US Navy (they are smaller ships, which could be an advantage in modern peer war— smaller target, harder to detect, better maneuverability). manufacturing is a huge advantage China has— even in domestic arms manufacturing, which the US didn’t deindustrialize as drastically as other industries, the US is severely lacking and is dwarfed even by Russia’s production. US is just not ready for a peer war. you could argue that China’s soldiers are untested in battle, and you would be correct, but US tactics and operations are well known and are being studied by PLA personnel. the US strategy doesnt even work well, as evidenced by the horrible performance against countries 10% of their size.
nuclear war is a very real fear, but that would mean mutual destruction or complete destruction of the US with heavy but sustainable damage to China. China has enough of a nuclear arsenal to perform second-strike and even third-strike nuclear attacks. we are also unaware of the efficacy of China’s missile defense systems (they may not be able to defend against nuclear warheads, but i wouldn’t put it past them). also the US nuclear arsenal is old and could have problems that prevent launch
- The last thing even vaguely resembling a battle the us miliary was involved in was Fallujah in 2004, 20 years ago, and that was mostly the us encircling the city with heavy weapons then flattening it, not any kind of fight.
- US is just not ready for a peer war. you could argue that China’s soldiers are untested in battle, and you would be correct
  uhhhh the US's soldiers are also untested in battle. None of the soldiers on the fighting lines will have ever been in a war before, all the Iraq war vets are like 40 years old.
  and all their generals are untested in battle excepting against goat herders in a flat floodplain desert river valley
  this is a moot point and a cope that proamericans fall on, it literally isn't even true.
- Isn't modern US doctrine that aircraft carriers are the dominant force in the navy? China has limited aircraft carrier capability and lacks the self-sufficiency of nuclear-powered aircraft carriers.
China doesn't have EUV yet, which will limit their semiconductor capabilities even as all the major foundries are shifting to GAA FETs.
It doesn't really matter in terms of where Chinese technology is today, but Moore's law isn't dead yet.
- China doesn't have EUV yet, which will limit their semiconductor capabilities even as all the major foundries are shifting to GAA FETs.
- Transistor density isn't doubling every 2 years.
  N3E is only 1.6x denser than N5 and that only apply to logic transistors. TSMC assumes logic makes up 50% of a hypothetical chip to arrive at 1.3x scaling. It wouldn't come anywhere near close to actually doubling in real chips.
  Analog and SRAM scaling has been decelerating for years. TSMC N3E has the same SRAM cell size as N5. Samsung 4nm has the same SRAM cell size as 7nm. Because they don't scale with logic, every succeeding generation these components will take up more and more of the silicon hence AMD's move to chiplets.
- EUIV is already responsible for one of the worse nationalist brain worm pandemics ever seen, I don't even want to think about what an EUV could do.

Kirin 9000S is equivalent to the Snapdragon 865, GPU is equivalent to 888. Only mobile chip to support multi-threading, probably because it's a modified server chip.

Really impressive. It's faster than the Google Tensor G2 when power consumption is equalized. Tensor sucks but still the best that Google has to offer despite having no sanctions to deal with.

This is way better than the earlier domestic produced Chinese silicon I've seen (full sized desktop GPUs). The domestic GPUs seemed really bad so this a huge leap in the last 6 months. The GPU in this phone is probably better than the full size GPU I saw lol.

On a side note I want to know how well China's AI chips are doing. Nvidia seems to have an impossible lead right now over AMD, AI model training seems like a huge priority for national security and tech so it would be very interesting to see how they're doing compared to consumer chips.

Lmao it's cool af they put a server CPU into a phone
- Modern ARM processors are nuts. My three year old phone has a GPU, in raw tflop numbers at least (I know) more powerful than an Xbox One. 1.4 tflops
  The overclocked Adreno 740 in the Samsung Galaxy S23 has the equivalent tflops to an Xbox Series S(3.8 I think).
  This isn't even mentioning Apple's ARM laptop chips. M1 macs and that.
  And I haven't even mentioned CPUs.
  Obviously comparing tflops across different architectures is more of a fun exercise than a meaningful comparison, but it's still very interesting to see.
I think you mean hyperthreading. Multi threading has been a thing on ARM mobile chips forever. It being based on server architecture has advantages like that, but also disadvantages in terms of thermals and efficiency at higher clock speeds. (It only clocks up to 2.6GHz, and energy efficiency and thermals really suffer at that clock speed). It has the largest vapour chamber I've seen on a phone, the size of the entire screen. Single core performance being right in between the 865 and 888 is still highly impressive. Less efficient than the 865, which was made on the older TSMC process, but more efficient than the 888 and 8 gen 1, which was on Samsungs process. The 8+ gen 1 and 8 gen 2 blow it out if the water on efficiency and raw power with the new TSMC process, but that's to be expected.
ARM GPUs are a whole different ballgame compared to desktop GPUs. Raw numbers and benchmarks aren't always the best to compare performance because of different levels of driver support for certain features. There's the Mali approach, which treats the GPU and CPU as an APU with its approach, and has poor driver implementation of features such as dual source blending. Then you get Adreno, which goes for a more traditional approach in having the GPU and CPU more seperate, and has much better implementation on the driver side of things. This is why it's always recommended to go for an Adreno GPU in GPU bound tasks on Android, like high performance game emulation (think PS2 games at 1080p or higher resolution) or maxing out genshin impact. I think Apple ARM GPUs are still based off of what PowerVR did back in the day, and PowerVR made very good ARM GPUs. Such as the ones in the early iPads, and the Samsung Galaxy S4 international model.
It's positive that Huawei have gone for their own GPU implementation, Mali keeps dropping the ball, and Adreno needs competition. As for how it works in intensive real world tasks, only time will tell.
The less said about tensor, the better. It's not even a Google design, it's years old Samsung designs that even Samsung ditched. Purely a stop gap measure until Google can actually make their own chips.
Huawei's Ascend AI processors are actually quite good. They were arguably world leading before the sanctions. There are lots of others but so far they are a big mediocre group without real standouts.
So what's an AI chip? Is it sort of like how graphics chips are specially made for graphing calculations? But for running, like, several tables of nodes?

I didn't realize that the chip embargo was just targeting 5G. What an absurd move. It's a completely unimportant technology, why is that where you draw the line in the sand? And it's not some incredibly advanced thing that's hard to replicate, it's just a communications standard embedded on a chip. The only thing this embargo does is force China to arbitrarily build this specific supply chain entirely in their own country. Which China's rivals shouldn't even want! Having supply chains spread across dozens of countries makes it harder for all of those countries to go to war

5G is a hugely important technology. It's not just rinky dink cell phones streaming cat videos, it has massive implications for automation, like this mostly-automated port in China that uses it.
The only thing this embargo does is force China to arbitrarily build this specific supply chain entirely in their own country.
development of productive forces go brrr
It's not just about 5g. Huawei Kirin chips used to be manufactured at TSMC on their process (which is the best in the world for ARM chips), that is not allowed to happen anymore. So Huawei had to engineer their own process for making the chips, and the fact that they're only two or three years behind TSMC now, despite all the sanctions, is incredible. They're even ahead of Google's own ARM tensor chips (which are just rebadged old Samsung designs).
I'm so sick of hearing about 5G my god why is it in everyone's mind so much? I've been able to stream a youtube video at 720 over 4g for a while now what do you need to do faster than that on a phone?? I'm a big tech nerd but this literally doesn't affect me.
- It may not affect you, but it does affect me. 5G helps greatly with congestion. We have a holiday home in a skiing resort in Switzerland and during peak season, 4G is practically unusable, even 720p cat videos barely load. Last year several 5G antennas were installed around the village and I now get speeds >300Mbit, allowing me to even comfortably work remotely from there. 5G has had a very positive impact on my life.
- It's really useful for machines that communicate with each other
  Really important in the industrial and manufacturing industry
- sick of hearing about 5G my god why is it in everyone's mind so much?
  Because number must go up
- You already have 4G so nobody can sell it to you.
  The gadgets industry has to loudly proclaim the greatness of the next thing so they can get that bag. It doesn't matter whether it's incremental or genuinely transformative.
I didn’t realize that the chip embargo was just targeting 5G. What an absurd move. It’s a completely unimportant technology, why is that where you draw the line in the sand?
Seriously? Because 5G is how we spread covid, silly!
the de-regulation from 40 years ago means that american consumer carriers are always decades behind and that was okay until they saw that made huawaei so far ahead of them, so american the carriers employed their leverage with the trump administration to slow down huawei and it's been working; american carriers and their ecosystems brands have been catching up on the world stage to huawei since the embargo and china is doing its best to keep hauwei afloat with this new chip.
it's all of the moneyed technology focused interests in the world versus hauwei, so huawei is going to lose if china doesn't step up more; but if china does too much to keep huawei alive, they run the strong chance of pissing off more of the rich and then all of the moneyed interest in the world (tech or not) will be against china and china would lose in that situation.
- China will collapse any day now

If it's true that they're still a bit behind the cutting edge in lithography technology, then China is going to blow past the rest of the world in advanced semiconductors in the next 2-3 years. Wringing that kind of performance out of less precise lithography techniques means their chips will be better than western chips once they achieve parity in lithography technology, which will probably happen in the next 2-3 years. Before the end of the decade China is going to be decisively more technologically advanced than the US. It's fucking over.

- That's not a fair assessment! They also invest in strong education as well.
:joever:
we should start counting down to when the sabotage comes; china only has a handful of places that can make these chips and a well placed explosive; management suddenly jumping out of windows; or people demanding fair labor practices/pay should ground the whole thing a stop long enough to guarantee that china will never catch up.
- There's a conspiracy angle on the Malaysian Air 370 that it was the US stealing or eliminating a team of Chinese engineers involved in chip design. Flew it to Diego Garcia and then dumped the plane.

US National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said during a White House press briefing Tuesday that the US needs “more information about precisely its character and composition” to determine if parties bypassed American restrictions on semiconductor exports to create the new chip.

"They couldn't have possibly made this, they had to have stolen it from us somehow."

I wonder how long before they do the classic thing of saying 👽s made it for them. Just like how there was no way the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids on their own so it had to be

.

white people never invented anything and Tesla was an alien. You heard it here first but more and more people will be saying this.

Communism is when iphone and now the CIA is losing their shit

Hater behavior

Also, even if the use did have concrete advantages, the us has chased so many chinese scientists and engineers out of the us. Those people still exist.

What's the US gonna do in this parable, transmit coordinates for Taiwan to Sirius? Is China Earth? I hate these hard-to-interpret comparisons.
- Elon Musk has already done the birdsite a dual vector foil and the whole internet is frankly under threat
  He has gone two dimensional himself already
I've legit thought about creating a peace enjoying Trisolaran online identity someone really should

"China" didn't create the smartphone, a Chinese company did. And we won't be able to buy it or use it.

Same difference. A company isn't a separate entity from the country it resides in.
You probably can buy it, but it's really expensive.
- The Secure Equipment Act of 2021 forced the FCC to blacklist Huawei from certifying any new phones. So they won't be able to import them for sale and it would technically be a crime to try to use one.
It's a synecdoche.

anyone else unable to access any of these archive sites recently? I'm in firefox and always just get the captcha page infinitely, no matter how many times I successfully fill it out.

Try a different domain: https://archive.ph/r8YuY
- this one worked. .is, .vn, today, and maybe one other are all broken for me still
I never have any problems. You using a VPN?

That picture of the two presidents standing next to each other is great. You can see Xi thinking "I'm too old for this shit," and Biden living "I'm too old for this shit."

“While access to 5G for the chipset is one thing, I’m not sure how the company managed to source all the other components that need to go into a 5G smartphone, such as power amps, switches and filters,” he said.

They made them. China happens to be the manufacturing superpower of the world. These people's cinephobia is infuriating.

cinephobia
- Lol oops. In my defence, I was high posting.

the result of this investigation

I just wish there was a (reliable, secure) way to get most (edit: western, sorry) banking apps to work on one if that was possible I would buy one next time I can afford/need a new phone

Edit: Not for nothing but do any Hexbears have experience using microG or something similar to run the N26 banking app?

This new Huawei phone is China only and doesn't even come in an android variant, unlike Huawei's international phones made for export. So getting banking apps to run on it could be hard. It can run most android apps though a compatibility layer though.
The Huawei p60 pro is probably the best Huawei phone available for international consumers
- Yeah banking apps seem to have special issues related to push notifications, geolocation, and other layers of authentication that, far as I can tell (and I've done some digging) don't seem to be perfectly solved by the likes of MicroG, Gspace, and similar. Every few months I look again for new info hoping for a solution and keep seeing people trying and having problems
I have a Huawei fitness band and Huawei headphones they are great

Really reminiscent of the same feeling Nazi Germany had when they were so racist they thought the Soviet Union was incapable of manufacturing anything “original”.