Re: Have the Democrats finally hit on a good messaging strategy in calling Trump "weird?"
Re: Have the Democrats finally hit on a good messaging strategy in calling Trump "weird?"
Continuing this from the thread in !chapotraphouse@hexbear.net Have the Democrats finally hit on a good messaging strategy in calling Trump "weird?"
Original Post by @Philosoraptor@hexbear.net
Inspired by this post and the fact that I'm seeing a lot of regular libs start to coverage on "these guys are weird little freaks" as a messaging policy, which really seems to be bringing out the
in the far right. It's working much better for them than all of Biden's attempts to portray Trump as some kind of existential threat to
.
This is interesting, and only surprising in the sense that it is surprising to see the Democrats do something kind of effective for once. Fascists thrive on being seen as cool, powerful, and dangerous; those aesthetics are central to the brand. Every time Biden gave a big speech about how the future of democracy was on the line in the election, it played into that aesthetic. Every time CNN calls January 6 a "coup attempt," it plays into that aesthetic.
Calling these people weird little freaks with weird dumb ideas and weird creepy fixations does not play into that aesthetic. It breaks the illusion that all the freaks at the RNC wearing bandages on their ears are actually normal and represent normal people. They aren't, and they don't. This is yet another thing that the left has known for some time now, but that libs seem to maybe be catching on to: taking these idiots seriously empowers them. Actually realizing that and using it is one of the smarter things that the Dems have done in a while.
Also, we've been calling conservatives weird for years now, it's just that mainstream democrats are finally taking the opening that republicans have been giving them.
Throughout the Obama years and through the 2016 election, democrats kept casting the increasing extremism of the republicans as an aberration and often openly pleaded that the "fever" would "break." But the fever never broke, the republicans have only gotten more and more right, in ways that are increasingly alien to mainstream society. It was only a matter of time before democrats changed their tune and finally harped on the obvious.
Republicans ultimately have no one to blame but themselves. They embraced Trump, who is deeply weird. They talk about children's genitals all the time and accuse their opponents of being satanic pedophiles. They got rid of Roe. They've nominated JD Vance. They got so locked in to their conservative media bubble and their little mental conservative world that they lost touch with normality.
Also, we've been calling conservatives weird for years now, it's just that mainstream democrats are finally taking the opening that republicans have been giving them.
Absolutely. The same people seizing on this right now were screaming at us for not treating The Threat To Democracy with the decorum it deserved just a month ago. Most leftists have been on the "these guys are weird little freaks" train for years now.
Definitely, this is exactly what they should've done in 2016 but couldn't because they decided to anoint their own weird candidate
The problem is conversational kamala harris is also deeply weird, although if they can avoid her having to answer questions she doesn't like and just make her read of a teleprompter it might not be so bad.
I think them seizing this rhetorical strategy also preemptively defangs the Republicans trying to call her weird too; it would seem weak and uncreative to just repeat the same attack. I don't think it was done intentionally with that in mind--they're not that clever--but it is a nice side effect for them.
Judging from the reactions I'm seeing on twitter and conservative media, It's very clearly gotten under conservatives' skin.
they have discovered what the "dirtbag left" was saying in 2016 while they were all still doing "when they go low we go high!"
as someone that has stepped in both worlds i've come to realize something
libertarians, aka the "dirtbag right" are like the underground counter-culture for the right and stuff they kick around in weird forums eventually peculates up to mainstream right wing strategy (i saw this pre-2015)
meanwhile the dirtbag left may be the same thing for dems and libs.
both sides hate these respective counter-cultures but simultaneously see them as the dangerous "cool kids" despite their burning hatred for them
The thing is that terminally online fascist porn addled culture developed by 15-40 year olds on 4chan and similar sites and accounts eventually bleed into mainstream conservative culture too. Whereas “the dirtbag left” seems to only penetrate into other terminally online spaces.
It works because most Republican communication now relies on like 10 layers of preexisting outrage lore, and only really has power if you are way too plugged in to the internet.
Think about how the conservative influencers always love to just post a picture of a random short haired/fat woman or skinny bespectacled man and go "THIS is the Biden Admin's/Video Game Company's appointee to so and so," egging on their dog-brained mouth breathers to accuse said person of being trans/soy/ran through/alone with cats whatever. Does any normal mature and non-insecure person engage with the greater world in this way? Does real human interaction ever really unfold so in line with arbitrary preconceptions, or are these chuds just dredging up half-remembered tropes from movies, advertising, and TV shows pretending they can pregame real human interaction?
No, you can only understand the right's weird taxonomy of humankind if you do not interact with humankind healthily or regularly, and are a social maladapt who cannot have conversations with anyone without first sizing them up and seeing if you will have enough canned lines for bluffing your normalcy through a conversation with them.
Do you remember at the middle school dance when there was that group of guys/girls who stood in the corner not dancing because they were scared to venture off and join the crowd, but were talking especially loudly at each other so that eavesdroppers might presume they were cool? Do you remember people like this talking shit about their peers who were self-affirmed enough to unironically have a good time being silly, or scoping for a more outcast group to pick on?
That is what conservative culture is now, antisocial, resentful, sexually-anxious middle school brained losers who haven't developed the social graces to improvise through life, people who bluff as the in-group by using self-serious/dehumanizing language to slander and bring down other people minding their own business. They are just finally being called out for being the sauceless pretenders who were being excluded all along for good reason, beneath this facade of normalcy and superiority they affected by doing their own excluding.
Well said
That is what conservative culture is now, antisocial, resentful, sexually-anxious middle school brained losers who haven't developed the social graces to improvise through life, people who bluff as the in-group by using self-serious/dehumanizing language to slander and bring down other people minding their own business.
What’s especially funny about this is that conservative women are also repulsed by this. Their online dating services fail, although this may be due to women in general being less present on dating apps and conservatives probably finding dates in churches and shit. But the fact remains, so many conservative men would never in a million years reveal to their wives or girlfriends their albums of wojak comics or incel beliefs because everyone knows it makes you a loser.
If a conservative woman tries to participate in these online cultures, they will either be harassed by their own men, accused of being trans, or “accepted” as long as they allow themselves to be sexualized and used as a punching bag.
Yep, if you check out the Twitter account @Cruffalo it is all about how red pill/incel stuff is ruining Christian/right wing men. And she's a straight up Christian conservative.
I think they stumbled onto vance. (it would have also worked with pence tbh). Trump needed a straight guy/gal for his comedic act, instead of a freak guy
(can he fire the guy btw? is this some legal thingy?)
I think they are stuck with him by the laws of most states
But presumably those laws flow from republican locals customs, because rnc and dnc are private corporations, so i would think its something like local rncs submit lists to some electoral thingy? Or is it like real laws on the books of state, which mention convention (a gathering of people) of party as ultimate deadline of that party's candidate?
after reading some more, yeah its state patchwork of local rnc + actually electors can say fuck it. (eg the substitution could be even later, after ballots are printed, with implicit understanding for electors (who are rnc guys and gals) what that ballot means, still might land in supreme court, but they'll toss it out 9-0)
Nothing is stopping Trump from shooting him on 5th Avenue
Conservatives have always been weird.
But yes, as silly as it is, this will get under theor skin a bit because they see themselves as the normal ones.
It is pretty lame that this is the best Dems can to though
It’s a strategy of ostracization rather than the previous strategy of horror, which is a breath of fresh air given that these nerds have been shown to get off on being seen as a threat.
Othering chuds is particularly effective because they see the idea of normality as a holy grail that all must strictly abide by, but they think everyone secretly agrees with them and that they are the silent majority so thus they are normal no matter what they do and so they can project an inane amount of bravado and assumption of knowing the lore, because they genuinely believe everything they talk about is a serious issue that average-Joe Americans actually are entirely locked-in about.
It’s literally just not taking the ideas as valid and shutting down the conversation because you don’t think that people would take it seriously if you don’t lend it the credibility of discussion. It’s PPB laundered through 50 think tanks to best suit the Dem platform. If nothing else, it is refreshing that liberals don’t start immediately yelling at you for being ‘uncouth’ with chuds by swinging back.
I would call this a rare W but this is literally just them remembering that they have to do politics and not just respond to what is pushed onto them
"weird"
Weird doesn't come off as elitist.
That right there is the key, I think. Great analysis. Even "deplorable" was the kind of thing that plays into the image of being powerful and dangerous. "Weird" is very pedestrian.
Anderson Cooper also hit her with this in the 2016 debates, which, I can't imagine a question like this being asked regarding calling republicans "weird".
Anderson Cooper: (01:15:07)
Secretary Clinton, your two minutes is up. I want to follow up on something that Donald Trump actually said to you. A comment you made last month. You said that half of Donald Trump’s supporters are “deplorables, racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic.” You later said you regretted saying half. You didn’t express regret for using the term deplorables. To Mr. Carter’s question, how can you unite a country if you’ve written off tens of millions of Americans?I mean, damn. Like, how do you even recover from something like this? I think this usage of "Weird" really tosses a smoke cloud up. Whereas, obviously for worse, Clinton called it as she saw it, or at least, said what people were "thinking". The problem though, is people will not be self-reflective and respond to that saying "You know what Secretary Clinton, I think you are right, I think I do have sexist, racist, homophobic, xenophobic and Islamophobic tendencies".
Tell someone they're "Weird" though? What do you even say: "I'm not weird, what are you talking about?". I don't know that I've ever seen someone fully recover from being called "Weird" in a context where most other people agree with the notion that they are weird. Which is, I think, where things are at. Like I said, this works within the Republican social circle too because people will deflect in the "I think they're talking about YOU Jeb" way.
"You guys are all weird"
"Don't lump me in with those weirdos, I'm the normal one"
"Sure thing, whatever you say 🙄"It's nebulous, it's pedestrian as you say, it’s colloquial. You can see them on the back foot, the way people on Fox News are so annoyed with it. They're not mad, they are just, annoyed. It doesn't have the same energy.
It brings back the memories of being a kid and being yourself, only for your crush to see you and say “you’re weird” with a puzzled look on their face, before running away without any further context or elaboration, and never interacting with you again
:yea:
Democrats have two main bases of support: the bourgeoisie and liberal white women. Saying eww to their opponents is their greatest strength.
It doesn't help that they're responding like this (CW: transphobia and general grossness):
Conceptualizing, drawing, and posting this shit is fucking weird, and I can't imagine it playing at all with someone who isn't totally brain poisoned by the internet. The more they make this kind of thing the centerpiece of their campaign, the worse things will go for them, I think.
tried this strategy once, and everyone just recoiled from him. Trump has won in spite of this tendency among his followers, but they seem to have decided now that it was because of it.The amount of very specific details in that picture is really telling on themselves
Easy comeback to that one: "only an extremely weird person would post that image"
incredibly normal image to have access to
Personally I find these drawings and other 4chan drawings funny because of how weird they are. Like, you are trying to offend me, but you sat down and took 20+ minutes drawing some racist caricature shitting and cumming or some blonde wojak being gang banged by caricatures of black guys lol. They have a whole 4chan esque board specifically for wojaks (soyjak party). This is the behavior of weird people lol
It is absolutely unhinged behavior. The fact that they think it's a good way to score points in public discussion is like exhibit fucking A in what people mean when they say the far right is weird. Like, we have a lot of weird, insular meme culture here, but I don't see a lot of Hexbears or leftists in general trying to use those weirdo things out in public to sway public opinion.
I like the shit and piss detail in the bed. Totally normal thing to make people get on your side.
Possibly I've seen a bunch of clips recently where the Dems have come off as normal. Some guy was like "the republicans are the reason your uncle is so weird at thanksgiving now" and Andy Beshear being like "The republicans just seem to want to be really cruel to children for some reason" (when talking about trans kids).
Honestly most chuds I've seen seem greatly offended about being called out for being psycho weird creepy incels.
Yes I'll give this one to dems, it's effective. The right is getting pissed because it hits home
psycho weird creepy incels.
It’s pretty great that the unironic worshippers of Patrick Bateman worship a rich loser who has to fantasize about grotesque violence just because he’s simply boring and weird in real life lol
I think it's lightning in a bottle. JD Vance is just incredibly unlikeable and Kamala Harris, for all her faults, is no where near the weirdo. It also helps that Bernie Sanders and AOC and anyone with the progressive except Rashida Tlaib label have thoroughly debased themselves that words *Medicare for All *have gone extinct. There is no national politician who is willing to stress Kamala in a way that makes her weirdness pop out.
JD Vance is just genuinely unlikeable. The guy is the neckbeard incel vibes with billionaire pals.
Yeah, I think it's a pretty effective strategy. Republicans are incredibly strange, JD Vance especially so. Simply calling that out is pretty powerful imo. I don't think they can just say weird until election day, but as a part of their messaging, yes.
They’ll never capitalize on it. After it dies down, they’ll go back to empowering Trump. Unless, Vance does some really strange shit like doing a self aware ad about the couch, but also involving his kids or something lol
Finally, I feel like the real left has been doing this for years. It's like 90% of the way Chapo talks about these rightwing freaks.
If the republicans respond as they have, and continue to be outraged by it, then it’s good messaging. If all they say is something to the effect of, “That’s seriously the best you’ve got?” Then it’s bad messaging.
So to answer your question, so far it has proven to be good messaging.
it's a good word. everybody knows what it means, but it's very broad. it's fun to say and even kinda sounds like its meaning if you drag it a little.
- "The cat's being weird."
- "I just got this weird email."
for a while, when I wanted to invite close friends over to get high, have some drinks or just hang out with no plan, I would say, "Wanna stop by and get weird?"
it got a laugh more than half the time. great fuckin word.
conservatives thrive off of using normalcy as a bludgeon. turning it against them should terrify them
Who originated the "normal whites" theory? This will seriously work on normal white voters. And even kinda-normal whites.
Felix from Chapo gets credited from midterms 2 years ago but IDK if he pulled it off of twitter somewhere
Ahh @Philosoraptor@hexbear.net I was just typing up a response to you but deleted in when I saw the post had been removed. I was just trying to make the point that I think the best response for Trump would probably be to focus on policy. Kamala does seem more "with it" but she's mostly just running on vibes right now, the reality is that she was second-in-command to the least popular (?) presidential administration in history that was Weekend at Bernie's-ing a dementia patient for four years. 2016 Trump could probably exploit this but I don't know if 2024 Trump has it in him.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.Guys, nobody has won jack shit as of right now
I merely find it interesting from a rhetorical and optics perspective. It's clear that, over the last few election cycles, the constant drum beat of "everything is on the line!! Fascists are at the doors!!", has had dramatically diminishing effects on the electorates enthusiasm and engagement. Coupled with a walking corps for a candidate, it makes for a very detached and doomerist state of mind.
This shift in tone and approach has, I think, awoken the democrats base, and re-engaged them. The Obama comparison that some are making is apt, in that this shift in tone is not one of dire straights and defeating fascism, but one that is closer to Obama's "Hope" message, while not directly invoking the word. It converts the kind of, historical, powerful, and frightening rhetoric about "Defeating Fascism and Saving Democracy", wrapped in all the western heroism central to the story of WW2 and the first resounding "Defeat of Fascism", and replaces it with party vibes and mocking the antisocial elements at the "party". This tone shift is clearly resonating with people, like it or not.
It makes me wonder about rhetoric, optics, tone, and messaging for leftist issues. I think naturally, topics of genocide and exploitation and the conditions there of should be tackled with a serious tone. However, on the topic of wage labor, wealth accumulation, contradictions within capitalism, the failure of western representative democracy, and so on, have the collective left effectively done a similar thing with the way it propagandizes these topics. Has the propaganda become so doomerist or so aggravated that it disengages people? Is there a way to propagandize these topics in a way that feels hopeful?
I can imagine someone might read this and wonder "What, we should call people who think the homeless should literally be mass murdered 'weirdos', like that's going to fucking work?" No, I'm not advocating for co-opting this "playbook", but instead, to look at the way in which this change in tone and rhetoric has made an impact on the democrat's base, and see if there is a true relationship here between the past rhetoric, the current rhetoric, and the shift in engagement, or if it is actually just superficial. If this relation is real, how can we recognize if the left has "exhausted" people who might otherwise be engaged with the kind of agitated propaganda we produce, and how might shift that agitation to recapture those people who are disengaged.
It makes me wonder about rhetoric, optics, tone, and messaging for leftist issues. I think naturally, topics of genocide and exploitation and the conditions there of should be tackled with a serious tone.
I definitely think there is a time and place for serious tone. But there is, to borrow the term, something incredibly weird going on within Zionist brains. And it’s okay to say so.
It's better than Dark Brandon
The word weird has an extremely old history dating back basically to proto-Indo-European. Can’t wait for the DNC to ruin it.
Maybe. But there's a 75% chance it backfires and gets turns into a "clown world" thing. Remember when Hilary invented the term "fake news"? and a 90% chance it dies out in a week or two. Couch fucking might have staying power though, like Boot edge edge and the dogs.
Great point about "fake news"
It's generally a bad strategic decision to attack an opponent in such a way that a clear opening is left for the classic 'no u' but the problem is that anything the Dems could criticize the Republicans on is something they're also guilty of soooo
no, it's shallow as fuck and fucking juvenile and stupid.
no wonder liberals love it so much.
counterpoint: american voters are shallow as fuck and fucking juvenile and stupid
Once again, the democrats are either late to the game or took the idea elsewhere. The Trillbillies were literally just calling Trump and the GOP “weird” the entire podcast this week lol