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Ukraine-Russia Megathread 7
Ukraine-Russia Megathread 7
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It only have been 4 days yet westerners are already declaring the defeat of Russia even though Ukraine no longer have an air force (non-imaginary, of course), the Russians are staring at Kiev's door like that Megamind meme, and the Russians are very close to establishing land connection between Crimea and Donbass.
Most propagandized people in the history of humankind.
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“even if Russia wins, they’ve shown how weak/bad/etc. they are,”
The enemy is both weak and strong.
I can't remember where I've seen this point before about another country, but it does ring a bell. I guess it's quite a common national coping mechanism - that even your defeat is a victory in some way.
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There's a line about that in Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism essay (although I'm not sure if he's the one who originally came up with that point):
However, the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak. Fascist governments are condemned to lose wars because they are constitutionally incapable of objectively evaluating the force of the enemy.
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Indeed, I was just talking about vaguely remembering the West recently employing the copium by saying that "W-well, even if they win this one, we'll get them next time! T-they've only ensured their own defeat!" but my goldfish brain can't remember it right now. It might have been the Taliban taking over Afghanistan but that doesn't sound right.
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The US wants so badly for this to turn into a prolonged occupation and insurgency. An insurgency that they can fund, arm, and train. They need to believe, and they need us to believe, that the Ukrainians are strong even in defeat, that they will fight for their country until the last man, woman, and child. The US doesn't care about the death toll, only that Russia gets bogged down.
It's still unclear (at least to me) what Russia's actual goals are in this conflict are though. If I were them it would be my highest priority to make the post-war peace seem legitimate which means taking far less than the Russians theoretically could (annexing the whole Ukraine would be a bad idea for instance). The less Russia has to enforce the peace, the better for them. A prolonged insurgency in Ukraine is one of the worst possible outcomes of this war.
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https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/xFHmSfkyEK.png
I really worried this isn't about Putins childhood trama and is really about fighting over a shrinking pile of global resources
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