Balatro dev: Talked with PEGI and they do not see anything wrong Balatro being rated 18+, nor with EA sports FC (and similar games) having a 3+ rating
It's entirely his fault for not being a multi-billion dollar company which actively invests in better ratings. In capitalism, there is no fairness - there is only money.
This reminds me of the documentary “This film is not yet rated”. The point was that the MPAA gives way more leniency to big budget studios when giving ratings. The net effect of this is it kills the low budget films before they can be released.
Yeah came here to echo the same sentiments. He isn’t establishment. Aka he has no voice. As money is speech in America.
You're confusing PEGI (the European games rating body) with ESRB (the American equivalent).
PEGI has ratings 3, 7, 12, 16, and 18, and it gave Balatro the highest rating of 18.
ESRB has ratings E, E10+, T, M, and A, and it gave Balatro the relatively low E10+ rating.
Hes no EA, but Balatro has made him a multimillionaire.
He needs to use some of that money to sue, maybe get the orgs that are fighting gambling/microtransactions onboard.
Lol, I love how even the good Americans are still so into US Defaultism and can't comprehend that other countries exist.
One looks like gambling but is actually a fun roguelite card game, the other one looks like fun but is actually a gambling game. Guess which one is rated 18+?
If you search for "poker" on PEGI's site, it seems that many games which are actually about simulated gambling are rated 12 or 16. They seem to think Balatro is more likely to expose children to realistic gambling than, say, Prominence Poker or Pure Hold'em World Poker Championship, which seems completely bizarre, given that those games are about playing poker and Balatro is a fancy kind of solitaire with no betting.
The pathetic thing is games of the ilk of balatro and luck be a landlord (also OG peggle) are actually the kind of game that plays with your gambling impulses but in a healthy and fun way, these games should be celebrated for subverting the language of gambling to make something beautiful, how pathetic to have so little actual understanding of video games and yet have this kind of power to impact the industry.
Yeah how dare you pay $9.99 one time to gamble all you want! If you're gonna get those dopamine hits, you better be spending real money at the tables!
I've always suspected I might be susceptible to gambling addiction so I stay out of casinos.
Instead, I go to the arcade. Which is like a low stakes child casino. Win a bunch of tickets and then either buy something stupid with them, or, just straight give them to some kid.
My point being, we've specifically constructed casino-like facilities for children and it's regularly accepted, so why should Balatro be different?
It's clearly market manipulation.
The reasoning in question:
This game teaches - by way of images, information and gameplay - skills and knowledge that are used in poker. During gameplay, the player is rewarded with ‘chips’ for playing certain hands. The player is able to access a list of poker hand names. As the player hovers over these poker hands, the game explains what types of cards the player would need in order to play certain hands. As the game goes on, the player becomes increasingly familiar with which hands would earn more points. Because these are hands that exist in the real world, this knowledge and skill could be transferred to a real-life game of poker
So, this game teaches skills and knowledge that are used in poker. The skills in knowledge are limited to... playing and making poker hands. That's it. Also, "as the game goes on, the player becomes increasingly familiar with which hands would earn more points" -- is hilariously funny. The idea that knowledge of what a poker hand is is anything related to the dangers of gambling is ridiculous.
As the game goes on, the poker hands also get increasingly unrealistic and different from real poker including things like five of a kind, and a pair being worth more than a royal flush.
If you tried to take the skills you learn from balatro to a poker table you would get kicked out basically immediately.
"Sir, you can't bring stone slabs to the table and play them as if they were cards. Also, where did these glass shards come from?"
I had a run where I legitimately had to stop and compare the point values a Two Pair Vs. One Pair Vs. Straight Flush
And ONE PAIR wound up being the one with the highest point value...
I was still 600 dollars short of winning against the Boss Blind, ending my run
One "teaches" you to gamble, the other allows you to gamble. And the one that just teaches you has a higher rating. Crazy.
Totally his fault for not heeding the ancient warning.
Give a man a fish, you get PEGI 3+. Teach a man to fish, 18+ you sucker.
My thief archer build in Morrowind and Skyrim lead me to a life of thievery and now I'm serving a life sentence at maxium security prison. Very sound logic.
It's really dumb if you know the two games (poker and Balatro).
Poker is a game of incomplete information where you need one single higher ranked hand than your opponent per round. The stakes are money you bet that your hand is better. Bluffing is an important part of the game.
Balatro is mostly a game with complete information (apart from the order of remaining cards in your deck and certain bosses that flip your cards). You bet no money. There is no bluffing. Money does not correlate to chips. It is about the rating of your hand (poker has no rating, only relative ranking). You play multiple hands. You can't fold. Bluffing doesn't exist. Cards can be improved, ratings can be improved, the decks can look nothing like poker decks, etc.
I keep pulling the hermit card out of my tarot deck, but it hasn't doubled my money! Have I learned incorrectly??
I wonder what they rated Pavlov VR, ya know the FPS game in VR that forces you to handle guns the way they would in real life and is popular with ex-military because of their transferrable skills?
I mean that would definitely get an 18 rating, I'm not sure what you are meaning to say
This is actually quite eye opening to me, as someone who doesn't really ever have to look at ratings as a consumer and has always just taken them for granted. Now I'm keenly aware it's yet another example of runaway capitalism. Just never thought too hard about it.
PEGI's a cunt.
Basically all media ratings bodies are weirdly corrupt and apply ratings without any clear rhyme or reason. There's good reason to largely ignore the ratings as an adult and even as a parent
My kids saw me playing it yesterday and asked if they could try. I said, "sure, why not?" They asked if they could play Fortnite and I told them there's no way that's happening in my house.
If your kid wants to play a thing, at least check out a gameplay video and read a bit instead of blindly saying yes or no.
Actual gambling - 3+
Suggestion of gambling - 18+
The queen of hearts is inherently obscene, that's why my copy of Alice in Wonderland is rated 18+
there are actual poker games that are rated lower than 18 too.
Clown world clown world
IRL poker cards from the dollar store - !
Sounds like grounds for a defamation suit to me considering his stated opinions on gambling.
In the meantime we can start guessing which side has more money to hire lawyers
Is the rating purely because it uses playing cards? Poker hands?
Yahtzee and literal poker with betting are included in Nintendo clubhouse/worldwide 51 and it's rated Pegi-12.
Would balatro get a pass if it used cards numbered 1-13 instead of traditional cards?
This whole thing is bonkers.
Anyone can walk into a store and buy a deck of cards.
I bet the gift shop of any casino in Las Vegas would sell a souvenir deck of cards to a kid without a second thought.
If it wasn't for regulations, they'd happily let the kids shovel their money into the slots.
Used to do that all the time as a kid, but a slot machine taking 2 pence a time is a far cry from one where you give it your bank card and go ham.
Tell me you are corrupted to the core, without telling me you are corrupted to the core.
i think it's clear from this these regulatory bodies primarily function to help the industry make money. indies can sometimes get co-signs from these bodies, but only if they stay in their lane. balatro has been a huge smash hit, and it feels like this body just wants to keep it down that little bit
I’m willing to bet PEGI was lobbied to push for that 18+ rating by ea and other publishers because balatro is taking revenue from them. They don’t get how a game without microtransactions is doing better than they are
No need to lobby, EA are the ones making the decision
Self-regulated organization my ass.
Well, they /are/ self regulated. Just not the way that anyone but them wants.
Learning the names and ranking of poker hands is the devil!
Dragon Quest 11 has a T-for-Teen rating and it's got a literal casino built into the game. Roulette, poker, and slot machines. This isn't even uncommon for JRPGs. Curious how the ratings agencies just glaze over this fact when assigning their scores.
This is the part I can't figure out. It's not just indie games: ages ago, Pokémon dropped the casinos from their games specifically to avoid having their age rating bumped in NA and EU. So clearly they sometimes account for gambling in side content. But somehow other franchises have kept them in, and aren't suffering.
Does it just depend on whether or not the particular person assigned to review your game is a hardass about particular things?
Just needs a good cover. Like Watership Down. Nice lil thing about bunnies.
They probably have some checklist which has vague definitions of "glamourising" gambling. I reckon this game unwittingly strays into the red tape in its presentation along with the poker theme (like I've said elsewhere it's more a maths game than a poker game). The music and lights despite being atmospheric and ambient probably have some similarities to fruit machine like environments in the sense the music is repetitive and there is flashing visual feedback.
Edit: Should say it's still B.S. to rate it 18. Just that I can imagine ratings boards can't apply independent thought/logic.
Doesn't matter in the slightest.
me, age 12, San Andreas
18 is the highest rating. It's equivalent to the ESRB "AO" rating, and many storefronts will not sell it, period.
Baltaro devs may need to invest in gambling to earn enough money to bribe PEGI the way EA almost certainly does.
What do you mean, almost? EA is literally a member of Video Games Europe, the organization which manages PEGI.
You didn't ask the question the ea way.
You're supposed to ask with a hefty bribe.
Don't need a bribe when EA is the one on the board doing the ratings.
Any proof of this?
Seems like an advertising opportunity. First solitaire game rated 18+ without any gambling, I assume no nudity, language, etc.
There's actually lots of foul language while playing Balatro, but it all comes from the person playing, not the game itself.
Guess I just have to buy Balatro harder then
I just picked it up. I was going to wait for a better sale because I probably don't have time to play it, but I'll happily support them here, and I'll probably play it with my kids.
Screw PEGI.
Edit: picked it up and it was a blast. My kids watched and now they want to pay too. Good game is good.
Did he try getting a friendly industry insider appointed to the regulatory body to "facilitate" ?
What does this mean practically? Are they not allowed to sell it some places anymore if it's 18+?
Theoretically stores in Europe are forbidden from selling 18+ games to underage customers.
Practically, almost no one follows this. Although digital storefronts like Steam do, some parents do, and more importantly there could be age restrictions on Youtube and Twitch gameplays.
Maybe if they decide to make box copies of the game.
I recently played it. If anything I think it has a subtle anti-gambling message.
The more hands you play, the more you realize you can't actually win without "cheating"
Play it like poker? Congrats, you're fucked, you literally cannot win against the blind.
Stack the deck in your favor with creative use of Joker cards and a few dozen extra aces? The game becomes trivial
If the game teaches you anything it's that if you play by the rules, the house will ALWAYS win.
I just played it last night, and then again today with my kids watching. I explained how the hands are scored, and they seemed to get the gist of it.
It has absolutely nothing to do with gambling. You don't wager anything, there's no opponents, and the terminology is all different, for example:
And so on. The only thing that's actually similar is the hand scoring system, but you mess with that as well with buffs and whatnot. Balatro will make you a worse poker player, and not even teach you the rules.
I don't think it's anti-gambling, it has nothing to do with gambling. It's like saying solitaire and blackjack are similar because they both use playing cards...
Have you tried partnering with Disney and incorporating some Marvel/Star Wars IP into the Balatro Cinematic Universe? Perhaps selling your company to Ubisoft or Sony and letting their massive legal/lobbyist team take a swing at this? Perhaps you could just take a total end-run around the problem and release an edition that uses the Minor Arcana instead of standard poker cards?
Would love to see thr EFF branch out and take this on. Great opportunity to set precedence.
Why don't people reach out to "Dirk Bosmans, Director General PEGI S.A."?
PEGI isn't a living creature. PEGI isn't giving out biased ratings. It's the people working there, and the person in charge. Actual people that actually exist here on this planet with us. "Talking" to a company is imaginary bullshit.
Listen. If there's a white man in charge and aren't yourself a wealthy white man, you're in for a bad time.
This post is clearly full of people WHO CLEARLY HAVE NO GAMBLING PROBLEM.
The arguments are even more ridiculous if you substitute an addictive drug for gambling.
"But vicodin and oxy are legal, how's that fair!" "Plenty of kids are prescribed painkillers in other countries and they are fine!" "The regulatory agency is just trying to punish heroin for being way better than the rest!" "I think all drugs should be legal, anyone should be allowed to make whatever mistakes they want with no oversight!"
But this is like saying "ski ball is dangerous because it's a gateway to beer pong. By the way we see no issues with kids playing vodka pong"
Its bad because children will associate poker with a good enjoyable time, which might lead them to a bad situation later on when they are permitted inside casinos.
I consider most arcades with ticket prizes to be gambling as well, and shouldnt be for kids. Most kids dont realize they could have just bought the prize for far cheaper.
And yes vodka pong is bad too, go yell at the rich vodka corporatists who paid the rating board to pass them though.
I'll give you a tip, nearly all certification or rating boards are grifts.
We can all imagine the imagery of balatro being somewhat a problem.
But less of a problem compared to games with actual gambling for actual money in the form of lootboxes or gacha mechanisms?
If you can get that to make sense, i'd love to hear it. Can there be a serious warning regarding gambling on balatro? for sure. But how is gambling imagery 18+, and actual gambling with actual money 3+? That's just insane.
What is most likely to get kids to become gambling addicts? Them learning pokerhands via balatro, or them gambling real money on lootboxes & gacha games and getting addicted to the thrill of winning after gamblling money?
No that part is very hypocritical, and I'm sure it has a lot to do with how much money the big game developers can throw around to make sure their loot box game isnt marked for adults.
I think both lootboxes and poker games are bad in this sense, its just the other reasons people are giving that are nonsense.
To say clearly, the rating board is hypocritical and should also mark lootbox games accordingly.
I have seen people burn money in games just as much as some who has gambling problems. Just one has the person expectations being hoping if earning more to continue to gamble with, while gamers who spend cash are looking for more extrinsic values that are still just as useless or not worth it. I do say these game devs are more deserving of the cash but loot boxes exist and others forms of gambling that gets a blind eye. Balatro isn't even real cash. It's not the same.