Hamas Wants Guarantees Ceasefire Will Actually Happen, While US Says Hamas Is Rejecting the Proposal
Hamas Wants Guarantees Ceasefire Will Actually Happen, While US Says Hamas Is Rejecting the Proposal
Reports have found that it is Israel that won’t agree to the ceasefire deal’s framework, despite Blinken’s claims.
Following the UN Security Council vote to approve a three-phase ceasefire in Gaza, U.S. officials and other international allies of Israel are cynically placing blame on Hamas for a stall in current ceasefire negotiations — even as Israel has insisted on indefinitely continuing its massacre in Gaza and Hamas has said its main request is a guarantee that Israel would actually honor the ceasefire.
But reports from a wide variety of news sources on how both Israel and Hamas are approaching the ceasefire proposal suggest that Blinken is lying about which party is accepting of the deal. Indeed, reports have found that it is actually Israel that won’t agree to the deal’s framework: an immediate ceasefire with a limited prisoner and hostage exchange, then a permanent ceasefire and withdrawal of Israeli troops from Gaza, and ultimately the reconstruction of Gaza and return of Palestinians to their homes.
Israel’s insistence on continuing its genocide has been consistent throughout the last eight months, including in reaction to the most recent ceasefire proposals of the past weeks. Officials have said Israel will only stop bombarding Gaza when they decide that Hamas has been eliminated and Palestinians there no longer pose a threat to Israel — a pledge that requires the mass slaughter of Palestinian civilians, as military procedures and Israel’s own public statements have shown.
But the main demand from Hamas appears to be straightforward, according to other officials familiar with the negotiations. Multiple outlets citing such sources have echoed what Hamas officials have said: that they are primarily concerned with getting guarantees from the U.S. and Israel that the deal will actually lead to a ceasefire and withdrawal from Gaza.
Specifically, Hamas is concerned about a lack of assurances from the current proposal about the transition between the first and second phases of the plan, Reuters reports, citing multiple sources involved with the talks. The first phase involves a six-week ceasefire, with the release of some Israeli hostages, while the second phase calls for a permanent ceasefire and Israeli troop withdrawal.
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Israel has repeatedly stated their intent to continue the war in Gaza regardless of international approval. Netanyahu, among others, has stated intent to establish a long-term/permanent security presence in Gaza.
Since Oct. 7th the Israeli military has either directly killed or provided protection to lethal settler attacks in the West Bank, resulting in over 500 deaths in a section of Occupied Palestinian Territory that theoretically isn't at war. So there's Israeli military presence, violence, and oppression of Palestinians even where Hamas isn't in control.
Hamas are not good guys by any stretch, but unfortunately they are the folks bargaining for Gazans. In the face of continued Israeli aggression, disregard for international approval/law, and stated plans it's no wonder they're demanding that any deals have rock-solid guarantees on an enforceable timetable.
they are the folks bargaining for Gazans
No they are not. Had that been the case people would actually get humanitarian aid and water pipes wouldn't be used for making rockets but instead give people water.
Israel has been holding the Gaza Strip under blockade for more than a decade, since June 2007. It does not allow any materials in that it considers “dual purpose”, i.e., that can be used for either civilian or military purposes. This includes construction materials, such as cement and iron, and other raw materials. All these are needed to repair Gaza’s water and sanitation infrastructure, which were heavily damaged by Israeli bombings, especially in Operation Cast Lead (which began in late 2008) and Operation Protective Edge (the summer of 2014). The estimated damage amounts to some 34 million dollars. As of the end of 2015, more than 100,000 Palestinians in Gaza were still cut off from the public water network.
This is just some of the systemic violence that happens under an Apartheid State, on top of the direct violence
they are the folks bargaining for Gazans
Hamas's sole goal is to bait Israel into killing as many Palestinians as possible so they can unite the Arab world via their mutual hatred for Jews. The only reason they're even making a façade of negotiating is so headlines can make Israel look unreasonable for not accepting their one-sided deals.
Just to get it out of the way at the start - Hamas is terrible. They are violent fundamentalists and do not deserve support. Neither Israel nor Hamas are "good" and the only side that deserves support and recognition are the civilians, Israeli or Palestinian, suffering because of/under their evil regimes. Now on to the rebuttal.
Israel needs no "baiting" to kill or otherwise abuse Palestinians - it's their policy and has been for a long time. From the Nakba until today, the history of Israeli human rights violations, violence, lies, etc. is well-established. "Look at what you made me do" is such a typical excuse used by abusers that it's almost a trope. Moreover, Netanyahu's government deliberately kept Hamas in power as a useful bogeyman and an way to divide/foil Palestinian statehood. There is ample evidence that Israel has directly supported Hamas and other extremists for decades.
"Hamas, for its part, is alleged to have emerged out of the Israeli-financed Islamist movement in Gaza, Israel’s then-military governor in that territory, Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, disclosing in 1981 that he had been given a budget for funding Palestinian Islamists to counter the rising power of Palestinian secularists."
"In a 1994 book, “The Other Side of Deception,” Mossad whistleblower Victor Ostrovsky contended that aiding Hamas meshed with “Mossad’s general plan” for an Arab world “run by fundamentalists” that would reject “any negotiations with the West,” thereby leaving Israel as “the only democratic, rational country in the region.” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official involved in Gaza for over two decades, told a newspaper interviewer in 2009 that, “Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation.”
As far as the nature of the demands: "one-sided deals" is a matter of opinion, but "we need guarantees you'll actually leave, stop killing/injuring many tens of thousands of civilians, destroying hospitals/schools/aid, etc." seems like a pretty standard request at peace negotiations. Especially since Israel has repeatedly promised to continue to prosecute the war and establish long-term armed forces in Gaza.
Man. If I baited you to commit genocide and you do, you are still the asshole committing genocide. There is no level of bait that justifies that. What the fuck is wrong with you? Even if your bait bullshit wasn't just rewording an insurgency fighting a 100 year occupation, you would still be supporting the asshole.
How the hell Hamas are the good guys when they're the ones that pushed Israel for so long that it finally snapped? Have we forgotten them proudly parading a dead/unconscious girl nude around the streets.
Hamas are not the good guys by any stretch
Everything before the "but" doesn't count, you know?
okay let's go with the second half then
but unfortunately they are the folks bargaining for Gazans.
what part of 'unfortunately' makes you think they believe Hamas are the good guys?
There's nothing damning after the "but" though. What part specifically of "but unfortunately they are the folks bargaining for Gazans" do you take issue with? That's the provable reality of the negotiations. I even call it unfortunate.
Ok troll
Cry me a river, perhaps?
They said,
Hamas are not good guys by any stretch
and then you say,
How the hell Hamas are the good guys [...]?
Not only a straw man, but you're literally acting like they made the complete opposite argument. Bad faith, dude. Bad faith.
Not even going to get into the whole, "they pushed Israel for so long that it finally snapped" thing. Just a complete historical revisionism.
Do people actually buy this shit?
Day in and day out, yes. It is a Kafkaesque political strategy. It is about injecting discord and confusion.
It is a pretty common tactic for accepting or supporting a genocide, or priming people to shame others for not accepting or supporting a genocide.
Corollary: there's a somewhat relevant quote by Sartre on the 'anti semite' from the immediate aftermath of WW2: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-anti-semites-are-completely-unaware-of-the-absurdity
Yeah people on both sides think they are justified in exterminating the other
Not a straw man, but whatever. If you fail to see that the comment I was replying to is basically "they're not the good guys, BUT...", not much to discuss. I'll maybe just add that a few years ago, when comments like "I'm not racist, BUT..." were everywhere, people like you were going around telling everyone that the part before the BUT doesn't count, so I took the liberty of ignoring it.
So, is it hypocrisy or just cognitive dissonance?
Man says "hamas aren't good guys, but they are the only ones bargaining on behalf of Gazans"
And you say "he said hamas are good guys"
If you learned "everything after the But in a sentence is a lie" and still believe it that vehemently without nuance into your adult life, you should reevaluate who you're taking your life advice from. Things can have nuance, and this war is fucking filled with it. Gazans who haven't known a life outside of death and destruction of their home voting for people who claim they'll fight for them (Hamas), radicalized by the violence enacted upon them by Israel. Israel insisting the death tolls are anyway near similar, riling up their citizens and voter bases about Hamas, an organization that, with it's absolute best opportinity for a 'surprise' attack on October 7th, barely scratched the surface of the innocent deaths since this has begun. It was a travesty, a loss of innocent life, and it was met with another travesty, another loss of life, but in greater force than they could have ever attempted.
If you can't sympathize with a people who have been starved, bombed, displaced, and then blamed for their existence, then history has failed you.
It's easier to win a discussion when you just state falsehoods, especially misquoting the other person, as the other person would have to defend it. On to a new lie, and around we go.
Many people will, unfortunately, listen to the lies, because the person defending themselves will look like they have nothing new to come up with, rather just stand there defending themselves.
Just look at any Trump discussion.
For anyone reading the above: Hamas is the one in negotiations with Israel. The words that came out after 'but' was a factual statement, not a justifying qualifier.
Hamas is negotiating with Israel on behalf of Gaza. Textbook case of prejudice hijacking reading comprehension.
The statement in question.
Hamas are not good guys by any stretch, but unfortunately they are the folks bargaining for Gazans. In the face of continued Israeli aggression, disregard for international approval/law, and stated plans it's no wonder they're demanding that any deals have rock-solid guarantees on an enforceable timetable.
How israel the good guys when they imposed a blockade on gaza controlling all in and out in it and control water and electricity in gaza. When they are continuing to expends illegal settlements in west bank and when they never stopped killed palestinians even before the 7 of october?
They aren't the good guys. Neither are the terrorists who murdered Israelis long before the current conflict. You realize you don't have to support terrorists to be against a genocide, right?
when they’re the ones that pushed Israel for so long that it finally snapped?
I guess Israel has never treated Palestinians unfairly, huh?🙄
Did I say that? Just to clarify: I didn't and I don't think so.
I know it's hard to grasp, but there are people who think the hamas terrorists are disgusting and at the same time the Israeli genocide is disgusting.
You know that you don't have to support terrorists just to condemn a genocide, right?
And what do you think we should do about that? Because all your points seems to boil down to just do nothing and feel superior, the usual centrist. Funny how that just happens to support Israel's position and enables them to continue with the genocide. Fuck off, you are a disgusting person.
At least I'm not too disgusting, otherwise I might go around and start calling people names online to feel like a big boy. I'm tired of you tools supporting terrorists and somehow pretending that's fine because Israel is bad.
If you understand the extent to which Israel has been harming Palestinians through history, framing the current conflict as:
[Hamas are] the ones that pushed Israel for so long that it finally snapped
is brutally dishonest.
You know that you don’t have to support terrorists just to condemn a genocide, right?
I don't support terrorists. In a fair world, the Hamas leaders who ordered attacking civilian population should rot in prison. But I'm going to fight fake narratives that pretend that the Israeli government doesn't have the lion's share of responsibility in this situation or that they aren't even worse terrorists than Hamas.
Did you misread that?
Nope.
Come on people. Stop enaging these obvious trolls/propagandists/retards. Look the way they respond, "nope" and that's it, really? Grow up or fuck off dude, you should be ashamed of yourself. People are trying to have a conversation and people like you just come here to distract people with obvious trolling. If you are a paid propagandist you should be fired for incompetence. And if you are not you should be ashamed of yourself.
How am I supposed to answer a stupid question like that? Should I elaborate or what? They asked a stupid question, they got a stupid answer, end of story. Look through my history if you fancy so, I'm not a troll, I'm just tired of people like you. I'm all grown up, so guess I'll have to fuck off. Not engaging with you does not sound that bad.