I am genuinely confused by hexbear's opinion on the Ukraine war

There is no coherent ideology over there besides "America/the West/capitalism should be destroyed." Dudes would rather Pol Pot be in charge than Joe Biden.

Last part is true and even more insane/sad because these people are all terminally online gossip mongers that Pol Pot would have immediately executed.
You own a computer? You don't work in the fields? You wear glasses?
Yep, literally executed.
- Yeah, pretty much. I mean, my estimate in the modern day would be that "ACAB I saw a bad video on Youtube, we need communism" would turn into "oh my god what the FUCK they literally came in my house because I said the wrong thing online and SLAMMED ME ON THE GROUND and now they're NOT LETTING ME OUT OF PRISON this is literally SO BAD LIKE THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THIS".
  But yeah, the general principle that they don't have any degree of connection to reality with what they're saying, I'll agree with you on.
- This is satire, right? Nobody over there glorifies or likes Pol Pot.
More than once I have seen the same person express both "America is evil and the whole system needs to be destroyed" and also "Joe Biden is bad for the country and I can't support him", and asked the person, well if you think America is bad and Biden is harming the country, doesn't that mean you should support him being in charge, so he can do more damage to this evil thing?
- No, they know that Donald is worse for the country. They want Donald in there so America collapses faster. They want China and Russia to expand.

There is no rhyme or reason. Misinformation preys on what it can, it is an opportunist. The beliefs do not have to agree with each other so long as they affirm one's bias.

It's just so... weird.
Like it seems like they genuinely believe it. I can't see that it's useful to have a whole server of propaganda-bots all just talking to each other; it seems like probably some decent number of them are real actual people.
I feel like I have a pretty good handle at this point on why people hold weird political opinions on the internet, but the whole "Russia's the best, Russia's totally winning the war, anything and everything in the Western media is lies, RT and SCMP are the only things you can trust" viewpoint is still a mystery to me. The best thing that I can come up with is that it's a sort of little self strengthening propaganda-box like some authoritarian religions -- like "every source that doesn't agree with me is lying, don't believe them" and a few other key principles that make it hard to break your way out of once you're in it. But I don't know. Like I say I can't figure it out.
- That's about the size of it.
  World defederated from them months ago. Save yourself the psychic damage and block the instance if your instance hasn't defederated.
  Or have fun and ask exactly what NATO's end game was after they "encircled" Russia and when exactly they planned to invade. Or how if Russia's goal was to prevent nato expansion, why are there 2 more NATO countries than before the war started. Or ask them to explain how the holodomor was actually not that bad and the millions of people that died deserved it.
  Tankies are a mess.
- The utility is that they use hexbear and .ml as intro exercises before they promote the trolls to Facebook or reddit.
- Take a bunch of citizens, destroy their engagement as voters over generations, keep their political knowledge on both local and international stages at the lowest level possible, then have the internet happen.
  Generally you get two things: a massive increase in knowledge, critical thinking ability and empathy or hexbear.
- They do genuinely believe it until and unless they are challenged on it in a way they cannot refute and also simultaneously does not anger them.
  If it angers them, they all become screaming sarcastic trolls.
  If you manage to do it politely they will act as if they have an extremely nuanced opinion and well we basically believe the same thing with minor differences.
  In short, they basically have late stage irony poisoning which has legitimately caused many of them to become delusional and extremely aggressive if correctly agitated.
  If you are enough of a leftist to know their more grounded ideas and the lingo / meme culture, you can fit in well until you trigger them with a verboten question or idea.
  You are correct that many of the psychological traits are basically the same seen in other cults of personality. Self reinforcing bubble.
  Also lets be real, a whole lot of these people are also chronic weed smokers. Sure, in moderation that shit is fine, but use it consistently to the point that you need it to cope with reality and ... well long term hallucinogen use kind of warps most people's sense of reality.
- You clearly don't have a good handle if you can't even work out the very obvious fact that nobody there thinks "Russia is the best".

Hexbears can't answer the question "is it ok to kill civilians" without asking "Palestinian or Ukrainian?"

Somehow, if you say that killing children is bad regardless of religion, country or skin color, you're a racist and a Nazi.

They don't care too much for Uyghur people either.
- Had one guy claim the Uyghur concentration camps didn't exist. He posted a wall of random articles claiming there was a lack of evidence.
  When asked why China is not allowing journalists near these camps and they locked it all down I got no response.
- #westernpropaganda #makerussiaussragain
This is just plain not true. Cool strawmanning.
As with every single time this comes up. "Hexbear would TOTALLY say this" "Oh really, any examples?" "NO BUT THEY WOULD I BET PROBABLY"
- I have long blocked the instance due to that behavior, didn't need that toxicity in my life.
  Cool cries though

There are some Americans, who upon learning that the US is not the mythological good guy it's propaganda portrayed it as, are dealt such severe psychic damage that the only way their fractured mind is able to cope is to just assume the opposite worldview must be true.

The key takeaway is that they're not capable of thinking for themselves. They require others to tell them what to think, and that's either going to be US or Russian propaganda.

That first paragraph is poetic
There are loads of people who think that about their own country. There are also loads of people who think that any country at all can be perfectly good or perfectly evil, or that in a conflict, one must always be right and the other wrong.
People love to shit on the US for it's aggressive meddling in other countries, but somehow forget that China and Russia do the exact same, you just hear about it less.
- And that other countries do it just on a smaller scale.
There's actually a name for that in politics. It's the rubber band effect and it's entirely human.
The opposite kind of is true. But the enemy of your enemy isn't necessarily your friend and it's hard to say if the US and Russia are even truly enemies when they both bend to capital.

Block hexbear. No good comes from Hexbear, only ill.

- Yep like the account sootius in this thread, 3 month old account and 90% of the comments are just defending hexbear. Buddy really has nothing better to do with their time apparently, pathetic.
100%
Add Lemmygrad.ml and lemmy.ml to that list too.

These people are not socialists. It's all just right wing agitprop. It's extremely obvious.

The echo chamber they isolated themselves in after chapotraphouse got banned from reddit but before the great migration did not do them any favors. It's a cesspit of self ratcheting extremism.

I agree, they simply put all the blame on the West for the world's problems no matter what it is and to be fair I often agree with those statements.
It's just purely idiotic to support another country going the same thing and denying facts such as Russia invaded Ukraine.
I'm a socialist, somewhat left of a standard social democrat in the EU, but fuck, these guys are giving the whole ideology a bad name. There are still some recent movements that are good such as solarpunk, degrowth, minimalism, third spaces and tool libraries. I hope the Gen Z and Alpha get in on those so they can vote out our generation of rampant consumerism and privatisation.
slrpnk.net seems to have some genuine socialist / communist ideology without the tankie flavor. They have a couple of users who I think are pretty effective "and that's why Emma Goldman would be okay with letting Trump come to power!" shills, but for the most part it's just the good stuff. IMO.
- Slrpnk.net leans anarchist, and historically there has always been a vocal subset of anarchists who advocate abstaining from electoral politics on principle. The upcoming US presidential election is the perfect storm for this stance to thrive and still it is a minority position even among the most anarchist instance on Lemmy, so I'm pretty happy with the diversity of opinion expressed there. I think it's important we hear those minority voices and a bit unfair to call them shills.
r/antiwork was that at one time. Then it got swallowed by the reddit hivemind.
On Lemmy the thing I keep running into is they're either tankies or anarchists, nothing in between. And while anarchy has some great ideas for making our lives better it's not a state we're ever going to achieve in a good way.
- And while anarchy has some great ideas for making our lives better it’s not a state we’re ever going to achieve in a good way.
  And while anarchy has some great ideas for making our lives better
  it’s not a state we’re ever going to achieve
  anarchy
  not a state we're ever going to achieve
  Sorry, I know you meant state as in "state of being" and not "political state", but I found it too funny to pass up.
you will not find a non-deranged communist forum because: 89% of all users will be shills… the remaining 11% will be beaten down, ridiculed, and/or banned for saying anything not deranged….
i’ve asked in person, lifelong activist/leftists and they all say the same thing: online forums are so infiltrated and fucked it’s not worth the aggravation.
i don’t think it’s worth giving up on entirely, but even if you make a no-tankies/ direct russian propaganda repeating, they just pivot to FUD, forum sliding, concern trolling…
even totally sane, reasonable accounts can be fake just so they can get inside the next level or take over moderation…
I came across raddle.me a few months ago and spent a few nights trawling it without finding anything questionable - though I might just be too ignorant of parts of history to pick up where they fail. It's very anarchist-flavored so while that might not be your preferred brand of communism I think it avoids descending into "deranged". In any case, their faq/about page should give you a better idea than whatever I could write here.
- Is raddle federated?
I've heard horror stories about the USSR but I've also heard meh stories where life wasn't the best but their needs were taken care of- not having luxuries but socialized healthcare and housing so don't live in fear like I do currently in the US of being one medical hiccup from being in a world of hurt or one interaction with a cop and the legal system from destroying my life. Will my kids say they have this generational trauma too?
- one interaction with a cop and the legal system from destroying my life
  Uhhhhh
  I have bad news for you about the USSR
  Every system has good and bad, and the US is so bad at so many things that most industrialized countries do for their citizens no problem, that I would never be the one to say it doesn't need radical improvement. And I really do (truly) get what you mean about living in a non-capitalist society and the wonderful things about the system just taking care of you (which it doesn't in the US). But at the same time, "needs were taken care of" and "don't live in fear" are two things that are very very far away from what was the stable reality of living in the Soviet Union.

I assume hexbear is just the russian troll factory.

I can read Russian and I sometimes read Russian media and it uses almost exactly the same topics for their people. There is a new one that they started to repeat recently and it's that Zelensky is an illegitimate president, because his term has ened.

Insert wall of giant wall of "clever" one picture replies here<

I really don't get any of those. It's like a whole made up language that I don't understand.
- iirc they don't allow downvotes, plus dunking on someone is the entire point, and also the icons rendering there is different (significantly smaller) than the giant versions that they render as elsewhere. And yes, the made-up language aspect as well.

Useful idiots and shills, they are.

This thread makes me laugh.

They're getting their knickers in a twist thinking that Biden is escalating and would be the cause for a nuclear war, conveniently forgetting that:

Russia invaded Ukraine
Russia has been constantly making threats to use nuclear weapons against western nations since the invasion started
Russia attacks Ukraine from within their own borders

Russia seems to be trying to manage the west to prevent escalation
My sides
Cool, this is one of the most upvoted comments:
I know right, crazy how that works. Imagine Russia telling Mexico they can fire missiles into Texas.
Like yeah ok if the US was trying to annex Mexico and Russia started supplying the latter with weapons and discussing the ROE, then yeah
I'm sure 'DankZedong' would like the 'Mexinazis' to keep their Russian missiles strictly south of the border in such a scenario
- I mean I do think that somewhere in the crazy is a valid point on that specific score. There's actually a moderately close analogy in Nicaragua, which the US was actively attacking, and then they started sourcing fighter jets from Russia purely to try to defend against our air force actively fucking them up inside their borders, and the whole of the US political spectrum freaked the fuck out, took it to the UN, escalated the war, there were all these editorials about what a crisis it was, etc etc, and that was barely even on the same continent as us.
  This was all during the 1980s, when I actually think that US foreign policy was quite a lot closer to Russia's current foreign policy than not. I think we've mellowed somewhat since then, although we're still fine with killing civilians the world over when it serves our purposes. But yes, the US has a few data points worth of history of freaking out completely over "threats" from foreign alliances that are not even on the same continent (or hemisphere if you want to go back to the 70s) as us. I think the difference is that Russia has been antagonizing its neighbors on the west so thoroughly now that almost 100% of them actively want to gear up for real war with Russia, which I'm sure would make any country nervous regardless of how it got to be that way.

I completely forgot I blocked Hexbear. Looks like I made a good decision.

Glad I'm not the only one. My feed is smarter for it.

thank you for succinctly articulating an echo of my experience recently on lemmy.ml

They are very ...passionate... about their ideals I guess.

It seems that tankies support Putin.

That is the power of an echo chamber. My favorite post by a hex was when he tried to convince me that the Tiananmen Square massare was fake. He had a comprehensive list of over 20 links prepared, with bangers like "Actually, the massacre wasn't happening on Tiananmen Square, but next to it. Checkmate globalists". I'd love to link it here, but shame on @goat for deleting that post and sending them to the Tankie corner, because now I can't find it anymore, not even in the mod log.

Oh god yeah, all the freaking time. I feel my brain turn to Jello when someone goes all-in on the "massacre was fake" bullshit, often insisting that no pictures exist, pretending it's just the Tank Guy pic. Someone references the notorious bike pic, they pretend you're talking about a similar bike pic that's a LITTLE less clear about tank treads crushing human bodies. You link them the actual bike pic, they either pretend they don't see the slaughter (best I heard was "they're not dead or run over, they're just taking a nap") or they start saying "well those were the violent people and China saved the peaceful protestors from them"
It makes me want to vomit
Actually, the massacre wasn’t happening on Tiananmen Square, but next to it.
That one's true. There's probably been some deaths on the square itself but the bulk was in side-streets blocked by Peking locals in solidarity with the students, once the army fought itself through that and arrived at the square it issued an ultimatum and the students caved. Eleven of the withdrawing students were later killed away from the square by a stray tank crew. The tank man picture was taken the day after.
Don't get into fights with tankies over such things. Rather ask why the CCP was stomping Dengists -- which is what the students were.
I think I saw a version of that. Also featured a celebration of Tank Man, because it was a sign that the Chinese forces were being very humane about it because he felt empowered to show his resistance and the tank stopped and didn't want to run him over, see, they didn't mean any harm!
- One version that was puked over me was "the west lies that he was ran over by the tank, when it reality he was shot , then they moved the corpse to the side and then the tank moved".
  Of course some others say he just walked away (got bored I guess?) and had a long and happy life.
Brigading with burner accounts really undermined the veracity those screenshot threads might've had.
what post are you referring to? I haven't been on the site for almost a year dude

Reality is a team sport, to some people.

Oh, you forgot the "Ukraine is 90% nazis" part

These takes are pretty hot with QAnon conservatives in America too. Wonder why. 🤔

I mean they feel for a rando on the Internet claiming to be an FBI Agent giving the internet the real story. If I was in info ops I'd target them too!

Trying to make tankies make sense is a losing vocation mate. bizarro world is right.

Whoa, I should not have hit that link.

Those guys are loons, and now I feel like I'm on a list for seeing that conversation, haha.

Stupidity is easy to see and trying to understand it is pointless.

Unfortunately propaganda works. And the Russians have been working at it for a long time. To be fair, so has the West. There are absolutely Russians out there who believe in conspiracy theories we've spread.

The problem of course is that propaganda like this is self serving and generally impedes the progress of civil society. We can't recommend a change in our government without getting called a dirty commie and lumped in with these guys. Russians can't do it either, not without being called a Western traitor and arrested. And yes I realize those are two different outcomes, the point is the problem is just as hard to get around.

The amount of cognitive dissonance is massive. they proudly present their pronouns, completely ignoring that doing so would get them on the russian shitlist superfast. Also, just like with the OG nazis, the enemy is simultaneously strong and weak, stupid and cunning.

It's kinda sad. after the wall fell and russia started cooperating economically with the rest of europe i was a bit of a fan, but what Putin and his cronies have done to the country and their neighbours is inexcusable.

It's weird that those forums are in English, reading the insane takes and rhetoric. I also noticed many of the accounts are just prolific posters, making the community seem small to me. Also saw an account with a trans flag, which is surprising they would accommodate such a person or such a person would have those weird views on lemmygrad.

Tankie 'thought' is very simple: US bad.

that's it. that's all you need to do.

I really want to ukraine to win and retake all of its territory back but some of its points do make sense in a way, russia is turning to wartime economy, backed by china starting to plug flaws that we laugh at them year ago.

they news that russia able to strike ukraine infrastructure that ukraine has thwarted a while back means theyre facing critical shortage of anti missile and uav arms.

ukraine also facing manpower problems, zelensky lowered the drafting age requirement but i doubt its still enough, the likelihood of concession in ukraine favor is unlikely in current time but i hope with lifting of target bans from newly supplied arms from the west could tip that in the future

OP, the link is to lemmygrad.ml but you keep citing lemmy.ml in this thread; are you mixing up the 2 without realizing it or do you intend to mean both?

I haven't seen much of anything on lemmy.ml that reaches grad.ml's level of what you describe. Then again, I stick mostly to somewhat-niche interest subreddits that receive a decent amount of participation from other federated servers.

In my experience even hexbear users are surprisingly (for the internet) good and decent to others, as long as you can avoid provoking their "the capitalist US empire is the current hegemony that's killing the planet and ourselves, and we don't punch down, therefore our vitriol is a uni-directional torrent" mode of operation that others in this thread have mentioned.

Obviously, the classical "cult" approach resembles that as well (love-bomb anyone not explicitly an enemy, close ranks against any potential discrediting of the movement). In my books most of them are ordinary people, from whom (legitimate) despair of the current state of the world has leeched all desire for compromise.

I don't have a less patronizing way of saying it, but they remind me of someone who, after years of abuse by their partner, finally snaps and gravely injures said partner. In some sense, it's on the rest of us to not have intervened beforehand, and at the same time their lashing out really doesn't help things.

Oh, and this probably reads as hippy anar-kiddy logic to them, which is part of why I personally stay away from most of their politics-related communities.

OP, the link is to lemmygrad.ml but you keep citing lemmy.ml in this thread; are you mixing up the 2 without realizing it or do you intend to mean both?
I have interacted with lemmy.ml people a decent amount, so most of what I'm saying in the comments is referencing them. I have some level of difficulty in even interacting with lemmygrad or hexbear people, either a block or some kind of federation issue, IDK, so they form sort of a unified maybe-unfair stereotype view in my mind. But certainly to me the linked thread makes them seem wildly misinformed and super-confident and condescending about the truthfulness of their misinformed view.
In my experience even hexbear users are surprisingly (for the internet) good and decent to others, as long as you can avoid provoking their "the capitalist US empire is the current hegemony that's killing the planet and ourselves, and we don't punch down, therefore our vitriol is a uni-directional torrent" mode of operation that others in this thread have mentioned.
Usually my experience is that if you have to edit your viewpoints to conform to what someone wants to hear, or else they will attack you, that person's worth avoiding interacting with.
Not trying to be unkind about it (esp since specifically where hexbear is concerned I have basically no firsthand experience at all interacting with them) but that's my feeling.
(legitimate) despair of the current state of the world has leeched all desire for compromise
The part that I don't get about that is the support for some of the actors that are primary engines of death and destruction in the current state of the world.
I had this really disorienting experience when I first started interacting on Lemmy, like "the world is fucked" "I know!" "the American system is pure poison" "yeah preach" "it's authoritarian and violent and police state and unjust wars and no real freedom" "you're so right brother" "and that's why we have to support Russia!" and that was the point where I had to sort of gingerly prod at what were their views and why, and everything I found from that point on was hostile counterfactual condescending insanity.
That's not lack of compromise, that's just being wrong and proud of it.
I don't have a less patronizing way of saying it, but they remind me of someone who, after years of abuse by their partner, finally snaps and gravely injures said partner. In some sense, it's on the rest of us to not have intervened beforehand, and at the same time their lashing out really doesn't help things.
IDK man. Maybe. Like I say I'm not trying to be unkind. They read more to me though like a person fleeing abuse from one partner, and then self-destructively choosing a partner that's 10 times worse (or maybe more accurately starting a pen-pal relationship with a convict who if they got out and interacted with them would literally do 10 times worse or kill them.)
- either a block or some kind of federation issue, IDK
  I think your home instance, ~~sh.itjust.works~~ (whoops, that's this community's instance, not your home) (mbin.)grits.dev, defederated from both of them.
  My own, jlai.lu, hasn't, so I see some of their posts crop up in my "All" timeline.
  I have interacted with lemmy.ml people a decent amount, so most of what I’m saying in the comments is referencing them
  Huh, that's not what I was expecting. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
  Usually my experience is that if you have to edit your viewpoints to conform to what someone wants to hear, or else they will attack you, that person’s worth avoiding interacting with.
  Not trying to be unkind about it (esp since specifically where hexbear is concerned I have basically no firsthand experience at all interacting with them) but that’s my feeling.
  This might be a question of personal tolerance to types of interaction (similarly, not trying to be unkind). I see it as selectively choosing when to engage (and on what to engage with), but I can totally understand if to you that is me editing my viewpoints to conform to what they want to hear. For the record, I don't often engage at all with grad and hexbear, not even up- or down-votes; I'll read what they have to say if the post title I come across sufficiently grabs my attention. There are a number of lemmy.ml communities that I do directly interact with regularly, mostly tech-related.
  Given how sometimes aggressively apolitical most of the fediverse tech spaces are, there is a part of the discussion that I value around current events that I have had a hard time finding outside of lemmy.ml. The best I've found are awful.systems and slrpnk.net (notably the permacomputing community at the latter). The scope of the first is intentionally limited to cathartic deconstruction of bad things, and the second I find lacking too much substance to suffice. There's raddle.me, but as they're not federated with the wider 'verse it doesn't really fit the bill either.
  I don't have the energy or know-how to be the change I wish to see, but if there was an instance outside of these three (.ml,grad,hexbear) that provided a place for the construction of good things (admittedly, following my personal definition of good) in place of the bad, I could see myself blocking them after one too many full-on tankie posts cropping up in my feed.
  Actually, now that I think about it, mostly what I get from the hexbear and grad posts are a less-substantive form of the catharsis that awful.systems provides but on a broader range of topics. It is, sadly a coin toss on whether that catharsis will be ruined by everything you so rightly are put off by.
  I had this really disorienting experience [...], and everything I found from that point on was hostile counterfactual condescending insanity.
  My experience lines up with yours, except for me not even attempting to prod at all.
  The part that I don’t get about that is the support for some of the actors that are primary engines of death and destruction in the current state of the world.
  That’s not lack of compromise, that’s just being wrong and proud of it.
  I think there's being wrong and proud of it, and there's being so scared and whip-lashed by the obvious contradictions of the West's purported values and it's geopolitical impact on the rest of the world over the past few centuries that you lose any sense of truth. That's maybe me being a bit melodramatic. On the other hand, I see it as akin to how a person's drowning "reflex" is to pull whoever comes close down with them - to the point that lifeguards need specific training (and a flotation device if I'm not mistaken) to be able to save a drowning person without endangering themselves as well.
  They read more to me though like a person fleeing abuse from one partner, and then self-destructively choosing a partner that’s 10 times worse (or maybe more accurately starting a pen-pal relationship with a convict who if they got out and interacted with them would literally do 10 times worse or kill them.)
  That's probably closer to the mark. It doesn't help that the former partner has friends all over the world that are very dismissive of any allegations. When I talk about the onus on us to intervene, I mean it more in the sense that we should be finding people that we can train and employ to be internet lifeguards.
  On one hand, I don't think they deserve to be written off as heavily as what I often see expressed in the rest of the fediverse. You don't solve someone's trust issues by ragging on their poor follow-up choices. On the other hand, this is online social media, not an irl group of friends and acquaintances. I don't exactly expect any specific person to do the work to reach them via these spaces.
  Thanks in any case for trying to productively engage with me on this. This exact conversation is tiring on the best of days.

If this is a honest question I will try to give some honest context, I do not represent a Hexbear, so these are just some views that I have that make me sceptical of the narrative that currently exists.

After the cold war there were calls to establish a common security structure including Russia to try to ensure peace in Europe. Instead the US (with pressure from past satellite states of Moscow, Poland, Czechia, etc) chose to maintain NATO and on top of that invite everybody except Russia, many foreign policy experts already warned that this was a recipe for war, but wether it was malice or incompetence they were ignored.

Fast forward to 2008 the US suggests inviting Ukraine (and Georgia) to NATO, and Russia makes extremely clear that this would not happen, that this was a red line for them. Now you can disagree with Russias right to say anything about the military alliances of its neighbours, but the fact that Russia is a military regional power with nukes is something you need to deal with. Again wether it was incompetence or malice is hard to say but the next 14 years are basically a chain of escalatory actions by the US combined with a series of stronger and stronger warnings from Russia that this would lead to war.

During the events themselves it is hard to judge as a civilian what exactly is happening in geopolitics, the US has a very clear trackrecord of treat inflation or simply lying about its true intentions or the truth on the ground. It could of course be that this is one of those rare cases where the US are truly the Good Guys™️ or it could be that this is a ploy to weaken a rival with the only price being the destruction of a country they don't care about and the death of hundreds of thousands of military age males they don't care about.

For OP: This above is the Russian talking points light, presented as a reasonable timeline. It glances over so much important stuff.
Hexbear is a group of useful idiots steered by the Russian MOD. Anything that destabilized their adversaries is good. This als means feeding a wide array of victim blaming, feeding competing narratives and generally making people question if there actually is a truth.
Shut up about NATO expansion
- The link you have provided with that title and thumbnail (written "Deal with it") is no better than the Hexbear or Russian MOD propaganda you are belittling. Sounding cool or assertive while "shutting up" a (main) discussion point will only resonate with the same type of right-wing nationalist people in your own circle, while you are criticizing the same group albeit in another circle.
  I wonder if you ever considered the same adjectives can be applied to you from others' perspectives at a glance.
  Note: Not implying any stance here on my part. Just pointing out what can be drowning the discussions while everyone points fingers at someone.
- And about the NATO thing, what do you think would happen if Mexico and Canada tried to join a military alliance with China?
  I’m not victim blaming, I’m blaming the US and Russia for playing cynical geopolitical games and destroying a country along the way.
- This is such destructive rhetoric, everything you disagree with is Russian propaganda. Yes of course Russia is trying to influence western opinion with war propaganda, because that is what countries at war do. But the US has shown so clearly in the past that they can not be trusted to be the single source of truth, because spoiler alert: they are also a country (de facto) at war.
- It glances over so much important stuff
  Sure does. Like the 8-year long shelling civilians campaign that Ukraine was undertaking on Donetsk and Luhansk, solely on the basis that it wanted to deny them a vote on their own autonomy.
- John Mearsheimer among others, were do you get your views from?
See this seems perfectly coherent even if I don’t agree with a lot of it - I actually do agree with the idea that Russia is motivated by a desire to keep hostile alliances from creeping up literally to their border, in a way that’s not readily understood in the West and leads to things being provocative from Russia’s POV. But also, I think that’s often not the intent from the Western side, and I think the Magnitsky Act and the subsequent reigniting of the Cold War and Russia’s extensive interference with US domestic politics is also vital context, and I think the idea that the Ukraine war is a “ploy” that the US invented is very obviously not accurate. But like I say, sure, this is a coherent thing we could talk about as to why I do or don’t think it.
But none of that is what’s on the other side of the link up at the top. If there are people on hexbear / lemmygrad who think the kinds of things you just said, they are currently being drowned out by people who think Russia is on the verge of winning the war and anyway they’re just trying to help Ukraine and the West is trying to destroy Ukraine, and similar comically insane things, who will just get super hostile if anyone disagrees with them about any of it.

So, everyone has to have the same opinion? Is that how the world should be ?. Wtf

Hexbear: Literally the most insane and aggressive disagreement with literally everything and everyone, including yelling and cursing and deleting comments and banning people who disagree with their insane viewpoint
Me: I think your opinions are not correct
Hexbear: Why are you SILENCING MY DISSENT this is unfair
Reading comprehension really isn't your thing, is it? Or are you just intentionally misstating OPs position to push a different narrative?
- So much hate!
If the strongest defense of this bullshit that you can possibly muster is "people are allowed to have different opinions" then that's actually a pretty damning condemnation of them, so thanks .
- Ah another hater!
If the opinions are "killing civilians is bad" and "land grabs are shitty"...
Yes, everyone should hold those as truth.
If you don't, then you support all sorts of bad shit like genocides and civilian displacement.
If that's the case, you deserve to have the entirety of this platform openly mock you wherever you go.