The New Audi A3 Is Amess With In-Car Subscriptions
The New Audi A3 Is Amess With In-Car Subscriptions [Update]
So far there's subscriptions for cruise control, adaptive beams, various navigation options, apple/google integration and my favorite, dual-zone climate.
Absolutely insane to me that you'd pay $35k for a car, and then pay a subscription for basics like cruise control and phone connectivity. The free market free marketing again. Legislate against this now.
A fifth of users in the US rent the car itself via lease mechanisms. You aren't the target.
Assuming there are discounts the folks leasing will use these options.
dumbest fucking timeline. A subscription for a feature that requires no infrastructure and is part of the physical thing you just paid $40k for.
If only we had people shouting from the rooftops for decades (100+ years?) to warn us about where capitalism inevitably leads... How could anyone have seen something like this coming??
There is infrastructure involved with monitoring subscription status to make sure you're not pirating heated seats. Also for taking payments to unlock your adjustable lumbar supports. They gotta pay for it somehow!
There is actually infrastructure involved.. payment infrastructure, servers, modems and cell connectivity. Sure none of those things would be needed if there weren't subscriptions, but there certainly is infrastructure used to verify your subscription and cut you off when you miss a payment.
For real dude.WTF.
The logic behind the concept originally made sense, they manufacture just one car with all the features as that reduces manufacturing overhead by a ton, much more than what they would save by having one with heated seats and one without (especially when multiplied by all the possible configurations), but instead of only providing the model at the price point with all of them enabled, they disable some for the cheaper models - this is possible because car prices aren't really based on how much they actually cost to manufacture.
This then lead into allowing people to pay to enable the features later if they wanted to, because why not, they are already there. Iirc Tesla was one of the first to do this with unlocking range, performance and "self-driving" stuff.
And finally it morphed into a subscription option because hey, if you only need heated seats a few months a year, why pay for the others? Only $10/month! And $15 for that, and $5 for that, and...
Same goes for this Audi, the subscription is an option if you buy the lower spec model and then later don't want to pay the full price to enable the features permanently.
The logic behind the concept originally made sense, they manufacture just one car with all the features as that reduces manufacturing overhead by a ton
Yeah, at the 'minor' cost of the fact that the method of enforcing that market segmentation relies on using DRM to infringe upon everybody's property rights.
Sure, that "make sense" -- if you're a capitalist sociopath trying to turn consumers into serfs. But we sure as Hell shouldn't let them get away with it!
Can't wait to start pirating cars.
Those ads in the early 2000s were prophetic. The answer is yes, by the way. Yes I would.
indeed, yes you should. civil disobedience is the best term for fighting uncivilized barbarian bullshit like this in the first place.
I WILL pirate car. My property, my rules, so fuck you.
YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CAR
Don't copy that jalopy.
Goodbye warranty then. Many manufacturers have already been doing that with chip tuning, which is also just a software modification. When you take your car in for service they read out the ECU to detect chip tuning, and your VIN gets flagged in their system if it has been modified. So if at some point in the future you make a warranty claim, you are SOL.
Then there's also the technical barriers they're putting up, locking them down so unauthorized software can't be flashed to them (much like Apple's iphone and ipad crap).
Amess is actually a word.
It means, to ruin (something) or to make many mistakes in doing (something).
I made sure I got it from an American English dictionary, Merriam Webster, anticipation of those who say that it doesn't belong to American English. 🤷♂️
retards buying subscription based cars need to grow the fuck up and recognize a principle for once
and so the enshittification continues...
That's not what that word...you know what, fuck it. I give up. Enshittification now just means "becoming worse" and I won't be able to stop that.
i guess the enshittification of enshittification is part of the enshittification then?!
Can the EU please do something here? This is BS.
Not if German/French/Italian car manufacturers can make a profit on it
Headline is enough for me to never consider purchasing an Audi.
Toyota is out. Mercedes is out. Audi is out. Who else?
I use Linux and Lemmy, if they think they are going to get me to buy a subscription for cruise control they are out of their mind.
BMW was the first I think to announce subscriptions but they backtracked after negative feedback. Hopefully they stay that way, as I do love my bimmers. All it takes is one holdout.
I'd rather drive around an open source rustbox than buy a sub.
Bicycles and feet, if you can.
Mazda is still good I think.
But they're kinda expensive and they gatekeep features to their higher tiers, that other manufacturers keep to their lower ones.
Hyundai perhaps, but they've also had other issues.
Mazda no, they are harassing the app developers who use their API https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2023/10/13/removal-of-mazda-connected-services-integration/
Hyundai perhaps, but they’ve also had other issues.
I can't find an article about it right now, but I could've sworn they tried to pull some subscription bullshit (other than "Bluelink" or "Evolve+," which are relatively legit) a while back, too.
Toyota is doing the subscription thing too? I didn't hear about that one. I only heard about BMW, Mercedes, and now Audi.
If Toyota/Lexus is out, then I guess my plans of buying an AWD coupe as my next car are truly dead.
Toyota was gonna do it for remote starters, I believe.
Subaru is an AWD option.
Looks like all they do is: Music streaming directly from your infotainment ($15), live navigation + new voice commands + 24/7 agent in case you need support ($15), both above ($25, wow, such sale), and some AT&T specific bullshit where you can apparently make your car a hotspot ($25).
https://www.toyota.com/connected-services/
All in all, all of them useless, and absolutely not required. All of them are covered by having a phone with Android Auto or Apple CarPlay.
iirc BMW pulled back on it and only does a subscription for stuff that legit requires an internet connection
IIRC, Hyundai is out.
Are they?
They charge for the stuff that actually requires server infrastructure after 3 years, I believe. Which is the one case that seems reasonable to me as long as it's not gouging. But I hadn't heard about anything else.
Man... What's Toyota doing?
If you read more than the headline, you'd know that you can simply purchase those options instead of subscribing, if you want.
Which makes the entire article pointless. But you'd need to read more than the headline to see that, which is too much to ask.
Tesla, certainly. BMW also.
Subaru still seems to be okay.
Tesla was one of the original pioneers with FSD subscriptions. BMW had heated seat subscriptions but walked it back. They do have a subscription for the “drive recorder” camera but you can pay a one time fee to permanently unlock it so that’s at least acceptable.
Edit: incidentally the permanent price is the same as if you bought it on your car new.
I have a 2022. It's not terrible, but there's definitely a subscription for remote start and a few other connected type features. Nothing related to actual driving once you're in the car though.
Depends on how easy it is to jailbreak.
Sweats in Apples "Courage" to remove the headphone jack
Anyone...? Hello?
I have an Audi, it is a great car. I dont lioe subscriptions so I wouldnt get into that type of deal but there are workarounds also.
Why would anyone sign up for that? Now you have your car payment AND the fucking subscription? Makes no damn sense. What happens when they inevitably shut down their cloud servers that keep your access to the features in the car turned on? You never own the thing.
Ah yes, the moment you to have to break the law to own the stuff you bought. Audi A3 jailbreak
No one would sign up for that, but I bet that car maufacturers will make it the only model available. As for the shutting down of servers: something something small print
"Or you can just purchase any of those features permanently"
This fact, hidden somewhere in the middle, makes the entire article pointless.
Weird that across many industries they keep adding things consumers hate but get away with it because everyone else is doing it. How do people still believe in the premise of capitalism when consumer choices range from ineffective to flat out impossible.
Just buy the audi and come to your local electrician, he will turn on all the functions, id rather die than let this shit happen. Tesla heated seates need subscription? Heres a 20$ dongle to turn it on forever. Hyundai remote start subscription? Here take this 80$ remote to start it forever. Bmw fake exhaust sound onley comes with M sports pack and costs over a thousand? Give me 10$ and ill turn that on and turn on everything else that is hidden.
Or don’t buy it and support the brand?
Every shred of evidence is that enough idiots will buy it and it won't really matter. Then they'll all do it.
As much as I'd love for people to do this, there's probably a ton of software safeguards to prevent this. Even if you'd get around it, those greedy fuckers will undoubtedly void your warranty. And somehow that's legal too.
Yes there is a lot of safeguards, like safeguards so people wouldnt steal cars, but guess what, cars get stolen. Plus its easier to turn on functions that you want than steal a car, for audi MLB platform just reflash the MMI to an older version, unlock the hidden menu and turn on all the stuff you need. For this new audi I give half a year and there will be a version to unlcok everything like every year for the pas 20 years.
Maybe? With my Mazda, activating the navigation system was a matter of spending $10 on an SD card with everything preloaded onto it. Disabling infotainment warnings, reenabling the touchscreen even when the car’s moving, and even adding CarPlay to a car that didn’t support it was just a matter of a USB stick that tweaked all those things.
That remote start actually relies on an external service, so paying for it makes sense. Evetything else though? Yeah, fuck em.
Just buy the audi and come to your local electrician, he will turn on all the functions, id rather die than let this shit happen.
And then Audi gets the government to prosecute you for exercising your property rights "violating the DMCA by circumventing DRM."
The concept here is "ownership for me, serfdom for thee."
This is what happens when cars are basically a necessity to live.
Oh, you've got some other magical way of transporting goods across huge physical distances?
Horse and buggy ain't gonna cut it.
Yeah, I wonder what could transport me across 'huge physical distances' at a much greater speeds than cars, at a faction of the cost, and unimaginably smaller destruction to local & global habitats. I swear we had this tech at some point before strategic lobbying against it & ultimately defunding it (with no competition car industry profit margins soared, which is the issue og post focuses on). Unless you meant 'huge psychic distances', then lsd has desired speed.
But also short distances are a problem - cars are often a necessity within cities as well (especially with American mandated suburban zoning hellscape). Which is just stupid.
What makes financial sense does not necessarily make intrinsic sense.
As solution I am ofc referring to naked seagull riding. It's fun, it's aggressive towards other riders, no blinkers to use, many get killed in mid air collisions or as bystanders hit by cloaca bombs (since there are now no cars for birds to shit on & seagulls became giant). And they are fueled exclusively by fast food (to make them faster, duh).
Like pigeons from Korgoth
Least stupid car brain
You will own nothing and be "happy".
Is there a way to ‘jailbreak’ these cars?
You bet there is, and will be a whole industry doing it.
Man starting a car hacking company would be fun.
Good, I don’t see a problem then, companies can go fuck themselves
Edit: wanted to clarify that I don’t think it’s not a problem in itself, it certainly is, but it is a direct consequence of people being dumb, even announcing a plan like this should cause a complete boycott, but I don’t think most people cared
I was considering an A3 for my next new car. Nope. Not anymore.
Same. I have an a3 tfsi-e and the adaptive cruise control is subscription based ( which i learned after i started leasing ).
Last audi i will have.
No vw brands, no bmw, no tesla. Who will i go to in 3 years? :/
Update: Audi issued a statement noting that the upcoming 2025 A3 in the US will have “the same offer structure for Function on Demand as the previous 2024 model year.” That means only enhanced navigation with Audi’s Virtual Cockpit and adaptive cruise control will be offered as subscriptions. Dual-zone climate control and high-beam assist won’t be offered as subscriptions in the US. Specifics will be available closer to the A3’s launch in the US.
I can see the enhanced navigation being a subscription service, since it sounds like something that requires an external service to function. Adaptive cruise on the other hand...
If people don't just say no to this garbage, it will continue. Honestly I think I'm gonna go to an Audi dealership this weekend and crank the salesguys up before walking out on principle.
You should go yell at the McDonald's cashier next. That'll really stick it to the man and definitely not fuck up some dude just paying rent.
Does this apply to Europe too?
Has this been cracked, meaning people using these features bypassing the paywall?
Seems like this practice is banned in the EU, yeah.
The Dutch article that they look to doesn't say what they think it says. In Netherlands there are legal implications to change the amount of power of engine after it is sold.
The article doesn't is solely about engine power. Not about any other subscription option to enable something.
I also wouldn't see how a stupid subscription would be banned by some EU law. Aside from e.g. engine power.
From the article:
It should be noted that this subscriptions-for-features model applies to the European-spec A3. An Audi spokesperson declined to comment on whether these in-car subscriptions will also make it to the US when the car goes on sale for 2025.
Thanks.
That leaves the remaining question. Is there a cracker scene oh the automobile market?
Hard pass. I'm not going to own a car that spies on me or requires a subscription for something that's already in the fucking car. Eat shit.
Wonder how much that ends up costing per month and how much that ends up costing over the lifetime of the vehicle.
Assuming the lifetime even matters when they decide to just cut off subscriptions at some point in the future to turn features off to drive you towards buying a new vehicle and dumping this one like a good consumer.
Can I still buy a dongle and Bluetooth into it and subscribe myself for free?
Or you can just purchase any of those features permanently
The subscription model for features on a car is shitty for a host of reasons, but at least they're still offering the option to buy them outright like normal. If you really value ownership then at least you can purchase the car and buy these addons up front.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say I do see why they think doing this could be attractive to customers. I'd wager to say that ownership of their vehicle isn't a priority, just look at how many people lease their cars now vs buying outright. This is a market that will have the car and replace it within 3 years. So these type of people may purchase upfront an extra they absolutely do care about and must have, but if there's something else they're a bit unsure of, they could leave it off, get the subscription for a month to try it, and then decide if they want to continue on a longer plan to keep the feature.
Looking around a bit, it seems like you have a myAudi app which you register your VIN to which then lets you access the additional features.
https://www.audiusa.com/us/web/en/about-myaudi/vehicle-functions.html
Problem with that is that it implies that you are the one purchasing the features for that vehicle. If the vehicle is sold as used then you unlink the VIN from your account so that the new buyer can register the VIN to them. Then the new buyer seems to have "nothing" and has to "purchase any of those features permanently" again.
With such a system in place, I could imagine that a proper Audi dealership can be authorized to "continue a permanent subscription" to a new used car buyer (or Audi can just offer those sorts of upcharges at the point of sale).
Regardless, permanent only likely applies to your ownership and not to the vehicle itself.
Tesla's do this.
The subscription model for features on a car is shitty for a host of reasons, but at least they’re still offering the option to buy them outright like normal. If you really value ownership then at least you can purchase the car and buy these addons up front.
The problem isn't just the subscription model itself, the problem is the means by which they enforce it: by infecting your car with DRM.
When you buy a thing, you're supposed to own that thing, which means you have every right to modify it in any way you see fit -- including to "unlock" any physical capabilities of it that aren't enabled to begin with.
What these car companies -- even ones offering to unlock your property for a "one-time" fee -- are doing is trying to destroy your property rights, and that ought to be entirely unacceptable to everyone.
I hear you, but the vast majority of Audi customers just won't care about this DRM or property rights on their car. If they're leasing then it's irrelevant as it's never their car in the first place. It just won't even be something that they even consider.
What their customers will care about is the fact that they don't have to financially commit to getting an "optional extra" up front, but instead can pick and choose when they want to use it.
I mean I know all car companies are going to do this so this is a tangential point but why the hell would you buy an audi anyways?
Their reliability scores are fucking atrocious on audis.
The only thing german engineering is actually superior at is generating ultra rightwing nationalism.
I mean. America's isn't doing much better on the engineering front. Ford and Chrysler issued the most recalls in 2023 apparently. GM is also in the top 10.
No doubt, though I would point to the US automakers being too busy being obsessed with annihilating worker power and unions over the last 50 years as the primary reason American cars suck. Instead of paying engineers to spend time innovating and improving their designs they paid harvard business assholes to micromanage workers and strategize how to shuffle vehicle plants around so that workers organizing for better treatment would be least likely to happen effectively.
This shit should be illegal. When you buy a device, you own all the hardware and have every right to use it to the full extent of its physical capabilities. Audi has no right to hold your property hostage!
How else am I, a humble car artisan (cartisan, if you're feeling naughty), supposed to continue to generate obscene levels of wealth for my shareholders if I can't continue to milk customers?
That's the neat part: you're not!
Things that legitimately rely on an outside service are different. You understand how those are different, right?
Cruise control doesn't require Audi to maintain a fucking server for you.
My car has a 4g cell connection that allow me to find its position, check the battery level, lock it, unlock it, call for emergency, play online music, check for update, set up the interior temperature or seat heating and use it as a WiFi hotpsot in the car.
I'm would have prefered no connection but I'm not paying a dime for it.
Nope.
If you are leasing subscriptions it makes sense. Or for certain features.
I couldn't care less as long as the option to buy remains. I'd almost certainly end up subbing though on my next lease.
Why do you hate property rights?