Where did this HAARP nonsense I keep hearing about come from?
Where did this HAARP nonsense I keep hearing about come from?
So, I heard several people now mention HAARP as the cause for all the natural disasters that have been happening lately. And here I thought the cause was rampant pollution and global warming!
But seriously, I'm looking at the HAARP page on wikipedia and it seems to be an array for studying the ionosphere? How in the hell do you go from "we're using this to see what's happening way up there in the sky" to "this causes tornadoes"? Who even started this garbage?
As far as I know, the "logic" is as follows:
- The ionosphere is very important for the weather
- HAARP is doing something with it
- Obviously not just studies, these antenna arrays use lasers or radiation to influence it directly.
- Pew pew
- Tornados
Nowadays blaming HAARP means they aren't blaming Exxon. In the past I believe it was just conspiracy fodder.
Two things can be true at the same time:
- Government aligned capitalist profiteurs have been extracting value from the Earth for more than a century, causing massive damage to the ecosystem
- Governments have some control over the weather (from 1965, National Science Foundation)
I mean, just look at The Dimming and tell me that they're all just stupid idiots who spent money and time on making a 2+ hour documentary, modifying planes to collect cloud samples, analyse and compare the results, etc? For what? Getting rich selling merchandise?
Sure, I'm open to all of them being quacks but I'd really like to have some conclusive counter-evidence.
- people die
- society collapses
- ???
- profit
That’s the basic pattern for most conspiracies anyway. I’m still wondering how the conspiracy theorists expect billionaires will make even more money by cutting the human population to a tiny fraction of its current number. Well, I guess I’m just not smart enough to see the hidden truth or whatever.
Right? Billionaires have an obvious interest in the status quo - that's why getting anything to ever change in ways that mildly inconvenience them is like pulling teeth.
Like others have pointed out in the thread, though: if you're expecting rationality from conspiracy theorists, you've already lost.
If those premises are true it seems to make sense.
This is the sort of thing that with enough data we could determine experimentally whether that’s what’s happening.
HAARP is an old school conspiracy theory. I haven't heard someone bring this one up in years. It's your classic government control the weather theory.
Back in the days we all laughed about it.
Then it turns out, governments do control the weather! Through deforestation and shit.
Old enough to have an X-Files episode. Remember when wacky conspiracies where good old fun?
I had no idea this was old school. I thought this was a recent thing. Though, the book in @Strangle@lemmy.world's comment was published in 1995, so I guess I just hadn't noticed until now.
muse had an album of its name in the early/mid 2000s too
As conspiracy theory bullshit goes, this is a true classic - almost up there with the Moon landing. Some Infowars-regurgitating twat was spamming about HAARP on an IRC channel I was on like 15+ years ago.
Yes I remember haarp conspiracy as early as, I think, 98. It was from a friend's mom who was into David Icky at the time. Definitely a classic older theory.
Long story short, the HAARP nonsense has its origins in psychology. If you want the long version, check this article. It also answers how conspiratorial thinking in general works, not just the nut jobs spreading wild stories about HAARP.
Because these delusions are based on defects of the mind, there’s no amount of facts that you can throw at this problem and expect it to be fixed that way. What wasn’t reasoned in, can’t be reasoned out of a broken mind like that. These people are in need therapy and support more than anything else.
If podcasts, are more your thing, consider listening to You’re not so smart - episode 197 conspiratorial thinking. I think the part about the history of small and large conspiracies was particularly fascinating. Grand conspiracies are impossibly difficult to pull off, because there’s always a weak link somewhere which will make the whole thing collapse sooner or later. On the other hand, small conspiracies are a reality, and there have been numerous documented cases of those happening in real life.
Because these delusions are based on defects of the mind, there’s no amount of facts that you can throw at this problem and expect it to be fixed that way. What wasn’t reasoned in, can’t be reasoned out of a broken mind like that.
This hurts to read, but I have to agree. Especially because the person who first told me about HAARP has a freaking degree in psychology.
Because people are stupid. Stupid people believe stupid things. They don't have logic, just stupidity.
How in the hell do you go from “we’re using this to see what’s happening way up there in the sky” to “this causes tornadoes”?
a good starting point is The Paranoid Style in American Politics, by Richard Hofstadter
In my memory, the first time I heard this idea was back in 1995 with the book “Angels Don’t Play This HAARP”
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/636826.Angels_Don_t_Play_This_HAARP
Yeah blaming it for adverse weather is a pretty old thing, I haven't actually seen anyone mention HAARP in a long time and was thinking about its absence the other day
Possibly the same as the 5G people. Due to the frequency used by HAARP, it can be received all around the world. (They published the times of planed transmissions, so if you have a shortwave radio, you can listen in)
What do you hear if you do listen in?
Climate change.
cookers looking for an excuse to sound stupid AND deny climate change at the same time
But seriously, I'm looking at the HAARP page on wikipedia and it seems to be an array for studying the ionosphere?
That's just what they want you to think!
uhhh because they're a fucking awesome band BRO
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That's some old school before Qanon conspiracy brainworms. Made up by people who don't understand basic science and think the earth is 6000 years old.
I just hope they stick to that and don't adopt the new conspiracies like Qanon to be honest.
An eccentric friend told me recently we “hit Saturn with HAARP!” Or was it Jupiter? Not sure. But anyway, these theories have been around for quite some time. Someone else pointed out the ”Angels” book, which I haven’t read but recall hearing about a long time ago.
Well the second A stands for 'active', i.e. heating the ionosphere, so it's not just observing
Thanks so much attempting to bring at least some nuance into this discussion. But the cold hard truth is that no one really wants to know, because you'll sleep a lot better if this is all just mumbojumbo.
Unfortunately though, here is a research paper straight from a US government server that basically describes how it works in theory, with the following title:
Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025
Scroll through the document. Read it. Then compare the technology to what's being claimed about HAARP and other weather manipulation tech. I know there are insane people out there who'll make the most insane claims but for every 100th nutjob there's 1 person out there who actually read up on the stuff that's available and often they're a lot more hesitant on calling it all just a hoax.
Unfortunately the truth is that people don't care. Just look at the rhetoric used in these comments. Why would scientists come forward and risk being doxxed, ratted out to their employer as a lunatic conspiracy nut, claiming that is might be possible, even if just in theory?
We had the mayor of Ankara in Turkey claiming that artificial earth quakes were used against Turkey way before 2023, though the USS Nitze docked in a Turkish port in the Black Sea just a couple of days before the February 6th earthquakes), right when Turkey was stalling for Sweden to join NATO. There's videos out there of people filming bright blue-ish lights coming from a central source the night before the earthquakes happened.
The longest time I thought this was all bullshit but the more I dug into it, the less I was able to convince myself that this is all just made up nonsense from idiots on the Internet. I'm not on the "it's all HAARP!!" train but come on, let's keep the discussion a bit more civil?
Couldn't have expressed my thoughts better. I couldn't agree more!