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No Stupid Questions @lemmy.world
Impleader @lemmy.world

Have Americans always been this stupid?

Sorry if the premise is inflammatory, but I’ve been stymied by this for a while. How did we go from something like 1940s era collectivism or 1960s era leftism to the current bizarro political machine that seems to have hypnotized a large portion (if not majority) of the country? I get it - not everything is bad now, and not everything was good then. FDR’s internment camps, etc.

That said - our country seems to be at a low point in intellectualism and accountability. The DHHS head is an antivaxxer, the deputy chief of the DOJ is a far-right podcast nutball, etc. Their supporters seem to have no nuance to their opinion beyond “well, Trump said he’d fix the economy and I don’t like woke.”

Have people always been this unserious and unquestioning, or are we watching the public’s sanity unravel in real time? Or am I just imagining some idealistic version of the past that never existed, where politicians acted in good faith and people cared about the social order?

363 comments

  • I am American. The answer is both a Yes and a No. It doesn't have so much to do with stupidity, but that our education system has been slowly dismantled since the 90's. Rather than teaching civics, critical thinking, and basic knowledge about government, economics and their inner workings we've setup a system that favors test scores and nothing else. Has that made people more stupid? Possibly, but I think it has more to do with only learning the answers rather than how to get there. There's just this huge in-between of information that a lot of people don't seem to be able to work out on their own without having a lot of hints of what the outcome will be. It saddens me to see people's gears just come to a grinding halt trying to work out simple solutions on things.

    I think the biggest bane in America is our work culture. We've setup a dog eat dog system of trying to strive for the most success at any cost. Work culture in America is fickle, back stabby, and rife with favoritism over quality of work. The biggest lie we were ever told was that we could be the next Bill Gates, or Elon Musk, or some other rich billionaire mogul. The biggest lie we were ever told was to invest in the stock market and have a 401k. The biggest lie we were ever told is that if we worked our asses off that we'd automatically be successful. America is just a grindhouse that treats the working class like shit and unless you decide to be a bridge burning greedy fucking asshole you'll never really get anywhere with any real upward mobility.

    Lastly, I will say that America and American's themselves has become more and more isolationist in the last couple of decades. Maybe it is social media and the echo chambers they cause. Maybe it is the fake friendships and feeling like you are just collecting trading cards instead of making real insightful and meaningful relationships. Maybe it is the dog eat dog work culture or the keeping up with the Jones's mentality of things like Instagram and Facebook. Maybe it is a bit of everything. The fact remains that there is a huge friendship pandemic in this country and it only gets worse and worse as many of us further isolate ourselves from reality, critical thinking, and the prospect of being really challenged by the people we could be surrounding ourselves with.

    All of this has culminated in a culture that is becoming more work and money focused, less people and social relationship focused, and by and large more shallow and less well rounded and interesting overall. No generation is immune from it either. Whether you are young or old you can fall victim to all I've outlined above. Most people have let the technology and systems in place take away their freedom of thought and originality to instead become a husk of the human potential they once were or could be again because it is easier to fall prey to hive mind apathy and cynicism than to fight for your own uniqueness and truer sense of self.

  • In the 60s the counterculture decided that all authority and anything taught to them was wrong and they thought they were smarter than anyone else and their gut feelings were just as valid as education. Hippies and conspiracy obsessed right wingers converged towards things like quack medicines, conspiracy mongering, etc. Anti intellectualism, hand in hand with anti authoritarianism, has become the norm. No one with a normal personality would run for office now because the knee-jerk response is to pile hate on them so you only get dysfunctional people running for office. Watergate was a major influence as it confirmed, to them, that the gov was full of dirty secrets and actors. The assassinations of JFK, RFK and MLK and the failing Vietnam war and draft added to the "everything is broken" mindset. The internet has only made things worse by allowing these people to find each other and reinforce their beliefs.

    One of the biggest backlashes against the 60s was that people were tired of the constant protests and the collapse of cities like NYC which led to Nixon winning on a "law and order" platform that Reagan would later use. Then in the 80s you saw the rise of evangelical Christians against what they saw as liberalism in society. Reagan ironically used the "don't trust the man" mentality to destroy a lot of business restrictions like the Fairness Doctrine in the media.

  • In authoritarian societies, restricting education serves a purpose as a sort of anesthesia for the minds of the people. Solzhenitsyn, describing the few years just before the Great Terror of 1937 started in the Soviet Union, mostly from the perspective of a political prisoner (from Volume II, Chapter 4 of the "Gulag Archipelago" which can be found in its entirety on the web, in The Archive):

    And the clock of history was striking. [...] The Great Leader (having already in mind, no doubt, how many he would soon have to do away with) declared that the withering away of the state (which had been awaited virtually from 1920 on) would arrive via, believe it or not, the maximum intensification of state power! This was so unexpectedly brilliant that it was not given to every little mind to grasp it, but Vyshinsky, ever the loyal apprentice, immediately picked it up: "And this means the maximum strengthening of corrective-labor institutions." [...] And this was not some satirical magazine cracking a joke either, but was said by the Prosecutor General. [...] All this was printed in black on white, but we still didn't know how to read.¹ The year 1937 was publicly predicted and provided with a foundation.
    And the hairy hand² tossed out all the frills and gewgaws too. Labor collectives? Prohibited! [...] Professional and technical courses for prisoners? Dissolve them! [...] Graphs, diagrams? Tear them off the wall and whitewash the walls.

    1 My take: The author and his peers most definitely knew how to read, but they could not fully comprehend what was being published because of its, at that time, unparalleled egregiousness.
    2 Certainly the one of Stalin.

  • The short version is this - once politicians realized that human engagement was maximized by anger, a segment of politicians focused on making white christian Americans believe they were a minority group under attack and being disenfranchised by their country. The seeds of this have been getting sowed for decades.

  • Yeah, the people of the United States have been so stupid for so long that Europe and Canada have spent the last month scrambling to figure out how to do without all the things they rely on us for, to include computer operating systems, CPU architecture, to cloud computing and payment processing systems.

  • Are we more stupid than we used to be? Yeah. But I'd use the word ignorant instead. It's a bit more accurate. Ignorance is chosen, and that's what our current epidemic of stupidity is. Chosen.

    There have always been a lot of ignorant people, but now, with social media, those people have platforms to infect others with their ignorance. Also, in my own lifetime, I've witnessed a shift from ignorant people still being able to set aside partisan politics to condemn obviously bad actors or decisions to 100% doubling down on partisan politics no matter how bad the person or action is.

    I've definitely FELT this increase in willful ignorance over the course of my life living in this country. People in my own life choosing to believe things they absolutely would not have believed a couple decades ago. People not understanding super basic concepts.

    I think there are other factors than just bad actors spreading ignorance on social media. I think a lot of it has to do with simple distractions. The modern world has so many. A lot of the people I know don't even read books. Like, they simply don't read. If I ask them what book they read last they have to concentrate because it was multiple years ago. That's fucking crazy. Instead of picking up a book they're watching Real Wives of Whatever. Getting involved in some wealthy person's 1st world problems, instead of, you know, learning something.

    We're entering an age of concentrated ignorance and, unfortunately, that's very unlikely to end anytime soon. And the stakes are higher than ever for something like that to happen because we possess greater power to decimate this planet than we used to. Through pollution or braindead child-like politicians who can wage war or launch nukes.

    It takes a lot less effort to allow things to keep going the way they are than it does to turn things around and responsibly educate the masses. So we're probably going to continue spiraling.

    Things are going to get dark. Our quality of life will decline.

  • There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.

    • Isaac Asimov, 1980

    There were people warning against the glorification of ignorance in the US nearly half a century ago. It's nothing new; it just reached critical mass (also thanks to social media where ignorant people can self-organise).

    • Unsolicited advice, but you have to escape your - to make it not create a bulleted list.

      Lemmy uses markdown for its formatting, and this means - is has special meaning, it is syntax used to create bulleted lists with.

      For example,

      - Isaac Asimov will look like:

      • Isaac Asimov

      If you want it to look like

      Isaac Asimov

      you have to escape the - character with a \:

      \- Isaac Asimov

      The \ basically says "ignore the special syntax meaning of - as starting a bulleted list, and instead treat it as a literal -".

    • Excellent point about the ignorance. I would also add ingratitude. People look to whiners like the Donvict and think that complaining about first world problems is a legit reason to destroy founding principles like integrity, justice, and separation of powers. Americans have it good overall and they spoil themselves with greed. Thanksgiving to them is about football and cryptocurrency commercials and not enough about actually giving thanks, giving back, selflessness, service, kindness, empathy, and goodwill. Add a drop of ignorance and social media brainwashing and you get a nation with too many zombie mooks wearing red hats that turn out to vote. Easily conned, they ignorantly vote against their own interests. Bernie Sanders and AOC have been showing that there's a better way to solve problems and to work for every American. But it takes gratitude, selflessness, and work, not lazy golfing and whining.

363 comments