Sanders and AOC tell packed arena Trump is ‘screwing over’ working class

Thanks. I needed a rally to know that. So what's the plan to stop this screw over without relying on the people to be cannon fodder and resort to violence? More rallies and fund raisers for the party of the meek and moral victories? Bit of /s in there.

I really hope this "AOC takes over the Democratic Party and saves America" arc has a happy ending
- She's a young, outspoken woman of color. Old white people would never let it happen, even if half are in a nursing home mainlining Fox News straight into their frontal cortex and can barely walk on their own.
  A lot of folk are still recovering from Obama being elected twice.
  At least Bernie looks familiar to them, so the hatred will be tampered.
  
  Actually the groups that swung the election for Trump were young men (HUGE swing), and immigrants (despite voting against their own interests and pulling the ladder up behind them for future immigration).
  Senior men were more likely to vote for Kamala than young men.
  
  I unfortunately have to agree with you. With how the Harris election results went, i don't think people are ready for a woman president, let alone a brown one. The median American is too stupid, racist, and sexist.
  
  The powers and process screwed over Bernie in 2016. It would have unquestionably been a clear victory over orange circus clown. He would have been one of the greatest leaders in the 21st century. Now he's too old, even though the fire is still in him. But we do know now that America hates women, especially of colour, for leaders. AOC wouldn't have a chance until a huge social upheaval to change such attitudes and core hatred has occurred, possibly the Civil War 2/WW3.
  Just like how past world wars created the world we live in today. Before WW1, before men of all social classes bled together in the trenches of Europe it was quite a different attitude regarding the rights of people and classes compared to after the event. The schools of fascism and communism was very enticing to populations after such a wanton and colossal loss of life by poor leadership on the battlefields.

I love how Trumps gets some of these folks all riled up and by just acting normally.
- Jesus, if Trump's behavior is normal to you, you must have a lot of childhood trauma to unpack. I'm so sorry for whatever you went through. Have you considered therapy?
  
  TBF normal for tmurp is refusing rental applications from people based on race and making unsolicited unwelcome physical advances on women while claiming to be a victim of descrimination.
- They don't like being screwed like you do. What has that man done to make your life better?

This is some actual leadership looks like. It's not something that commes around every 4 years around election time trying to triangulate a voting block.
- Save your praise until they actually win some victories. Marches and rallies are a good start, but they don't necessarily translate into political action. Remember the women's marches in 2017? The largest single day protest in American history and it did exactly two things: jack and shit. People went out, waved signs, went home, and Trump flipped three court seats and ended Roe.
  Bernie in particular has always been great at turning out a crowd, but he's never been able to turn that into political or legislative victories.
  
  Ok so 4 years from now, when the major complaint has been gathering support only happens during election time........

Here's what I'd like someone to explain: suppose we have four (or even eight) years of president AOC.
Everything is going dandy. Palestine is recognized. Student loans are discharged. Maybe we're even on track to get a public option. Etc. We get everything we want.
It seems like it only takes 1 (ONE) election cycle for Dems / Liberals / Progressives to stay home and be like "naaah, I just don't feel it this year...Not gonna vote" to undo everything. Dems have had a slim majority in the house for the last 20 years. SC is one seat away from disaster.
We are only in moth #2 of Orange Fucks presidency and look at all the damage he's done. We're back to square one. Nothing changes. I'm starting to get blackpilled about the whole democratic experiment. Someone give me some perspective please... I just don't trust the American voter any more. The only consistency is Maga will always show up to vote no matter what piece of shit is written on the ballot. Dems / Liberals / Progressives: we need to move mountains to get any political coalitions or clout to achieve anything.
- You're getting blackpilled because your scope of what liberal democracy is is incredibly limited and almost childish. Student loan forgiveness? Recognizing Palestine? Those are useless carrots dangled in front of you that do not materially change the country or even count as policies.
  If you want to lock out authoritarians for another 100 years and have a real democracy you need to think bigger and grow up. Fundamental voting procedures need to be overhauled. The judiciary needs to be completely removed and then reinstated with additional safeguards against partisanship. Return to a gold standard and abolishment of stocks. Yes, the entire stock market. Quite frankly the entire constitution needs an overhaul to a degree where the old one should just be tossed into a fire and the flag changed afterwards to reflect all these changes to the country.
  THAT is what is needed. To remove FUNDAMENTAL and ENDEMIC problems that have been plaguing this republic for 200 years now!
  But instead of thinking about that, you just prefer some free money in the form of debt forgiveness. And that's why Trump won and he and his successor will keep winning for the foreseeable future.
  
  You somehow missed my entire point and managed to focus on the least important aspects of my question. The situations I described were hypotheticals reflecting the best possible world.
  My entire thesis is all it takes for one election cycle for progressives / leftists / liberals to not bother getting off the couch and everything we work for si setback another 100 years. It will take sooo much time to undo what Elon and Trump have done it just the past two months. I don't care about the goddamn student loans. My argument is democracy doesnt work, does it?
  
  You have way too much politics in the US, your judges, police chiefs, ad's should never have been political.
- Liberals and progressives staying home wouldn't matter if the democratic party appealed to the working class as a whole instead.
  
  Don't forgot gerrymandering and the electoral college. The EC didn't matter this time (barely), but most of the country does want change for the better. Part of the problem is people don't feel their votes matter because of the EC and another is simply voter disenfranchisement.
- We must get rid of gerrymandering and the electoral college. Nothing will ever change until that shit is gone. Until then, rinse and repeat.
  
  voter suppression is the main issue besides gerrymandering, republicans would never have won that many seats, if they dint do this, and heavily propagandized apathy. voter suppression barely occurs red dominated areas. voting machine rigging is almost never addressed either.
  
  Getting rid of the electoral college would be a good first step. It would still be less than 1% of what needs to be done, but a step in the right direction nonetheless.
- Replacing the Citizen’s United court decision with actual law would go a really long way towards keeping corporate money out of politics.
- The boomers will die eventually, and with them, their antiquated ideas.
  The world is now aware billionaires are a huge issue and countries around the world are taking more precautions to prevent what is happening to the USA from happening in their countries.
  Religious fascists will always be an issue, but we can combat that with education, taxing churches, and persecuting people like Alex Jones, Joe Rogan, and Elon Musk.
  That's why they all rallied behind Trump-- they know their days are numbered and the people want their fat heads in the guillotines.
  
  You’re banking on a generation of red-pilled fascists to fix the problem? Social progress is not a guarantee when older generations die out.
  Your “solutions” rely on the Rule of Law and Separation of Powers, both of which were dissolved after Trump v. United States.
  You’re about ten years behind what’s actually happening.
  
  The old boomer's idea of conservatism has already died. Congratulations, you already got what you asked for. It was replaced by a technocracy. Or neo-fascism. Call it whatever you want, but that replacement is thoroughly supported by young people. Zoomers more than millenials.
  Statements like yours incite me quite a bit, because I've used to say the same thing. "Boomers will die out soon and then we get to take over". That was 30 years ago. It got worse, not better.
  
  While you are right I do think that a good number are boomers, there are still young people grasping onto these ideas. I am a millennial and have worked with different people across many age ranges who are very conservative including my age or younger. Unfortunately this hyper conservative movement may not go away anytime soon in my opinion.
  But I do hope that people in America and elsewhere like you said remain aware of the billionaire parasites that feed off the people. My hope is that some day the conservative ideals squeeze and overstep with their followers so much that they finally wake up and choose different ideals. I hope it happens soon and we can change the future of the world
  
  It's the 1% vs the working class.
  Not generation vs generation.

I wish you Americans would deal with this crap before I end up getting drafted to defend my country from the orange porcine dementia patient.
- Seriously. One of the most conservative old guys at my running club yesterday said, and I quote, “someone needs to kill Donald Trump and Elon Musk.” And I live in Alberta.
  We are absolutely done with the US’s bullshit up here guys. Fucking do something. If one more of you cowards tries to tell me you’re going to vote harder in the primaries or some other stupid limp dick excuse, I swear to god man. Our lives and sovereignty are being threatened here. For the love of god do something actually useful for once in your lives.
  
  Honestly, fuck off. Most of us didn't want this shit. Stop victim blaming.
  
  I swear to god man.
  You swear to do what? What are you gonna do about it if we don't get rid of Trump? If we don't engage in large-scale riots and die so Canadians are safe? How about YOU do something? The best way to deal with an aggressive neighbor (geopolitically speaking) is invading them to enact regime change or just genocide the people there. Go on. Do it. Put your money where your mouth is and start walking across that border with a weapon in your hand. Once you win you can impose whatever government you want here.
  That's the problem with "Someone should kill Trump and Elon Musk". The "Someone" part, which translates to "anybody but me I just want to continue being lazy and comfortable".
  
  canada is working on divesting from buying american made items.
  
  You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after every other option has been exhausted first.
  
  I hear you, brother. I'm in Alberta too, but never been interested in guns; I'm waiting for my PAL to be approved as we speak. My parents and in-laws are terrified and upset about their grandkids potential futures. I'm talking to them daily to try to calm them down. We're angry all the time, and now filling with anxiety about the upcoming election, because we all see the lies and bullshit tied to money, power, and ignorance starting...
  
  A lot of my Albertan coworkers are still reciting the conservative propaganda and sound bites. There really is no hope for them as they are willingly obtuse...
- What do you suggest Americans do? Say someone is a working class American who didn’t vote for Trump. They can barely make ends meet and have no power or political sway. What does that person do? I’m not trying to be funny, I’m simply interested in your take and perspective as a non-American.
  
  What do you suggest Americans do?
  You'd know more than someone outside of the US.
  
  I saw something recently that was talking about how individualism has led us to this situation. Everyone is thinking what they can do. We lost our collectivist spirit. We don't think about what we can do.
  An individual has essentially no power. A group does. We need to get better at organizing. This is made hard because we are so separated from each other, driving individually to work, then back home, largely to houses where you don't interact with anyone else. We have basically no third places anymore where you'd typically organize. This situation was designed, and it's going to be hard to get out of, but we need to get better at forming groups and organizing.
  
  They are powerless if everyone stops giving them power
  The country is nothing without its workers
  Of 10-20% of the population actively protested and actively tried to halt any functioning of society, you'd be surprised at how much you could get done. A that large mass of people is absolutely hell to control and subdue, and they certainly cannot arrest even a significant fraction of them. If the threat of protests of that scale were real every time they tried some fuckery, they would give in very quickly
  The problem is that almost everyone thinks like you say, "what am I to do? I'm powerless", and give up before even trying
  
  And while we’re at it, why don’t people in China have the freedom to speak out against their government and not have censorship? Maybe if they all just got together in a big public square and really protested, I bet that would end really well.
  
  People in numbers have ALL the power. I know Americans have been trained for defeatism, but look at what protest, resistance, and strikes can do overseas.
  
  If you have any spare time, even half an hour here or there, go to protests. Connect with like-minded folks.
- If it comes down to that then I’m sure me and some of my fellow Americans will rebel and put the 2nd amendment to the test.
- Face it. Your blaming dirt farming peasants that John the bastard is going to crusade your lands.
  There's literally nothing we can do about it besides die as well in most cases.
  
  So instead of fighting now you're just going to allow yourself to get drafted later? How is that in any way preferable
  
  The British empire was brought to its knees by normal patriots to form the country you're making excuses not to defend. Coward.
- American here. Our boys are nearly draft age. This shit is terrifying.
  
  So what are you going to do about it? Because up here right now I personally am having to do shit like teach my parents and wife how to shoot guns, having to hoard canned goods and encourage others to do the same, having to comfort my elderly grandmother who is scared as shit about this and letting her know I have plans to protect her in the event of an American invasion. Because of your country. And I’m really fucking angry about it.

From here the outside ot really feels that you need to start another party now. Like nice rally and all of that but the dnc has been screwing you over every fuckin time.
Edit: Or a representative parliament system? That winner takes all shit shouldn't be...
- Or a representative parliament system?
  Oh ok we'll get right on that
  Edit: it just doesn't really help that these discussions always devolve into comments about "we have to get rid of FPTP" and all that. Yeah, no shit. There's zero chance of that happening in this country at this time. Not without a complete breakdown of the country.
  
  There’s zero chance of that happening in this country at this time.
  Alaska uses Ranked-Choice Voting.
  
  Not without a complete breakdown of the country.
  Well... You are onto that it seems... So get the hopium?
- That is because both GOP and DEM are corporatist parties. They will not cater to working class people because those people aren't the ones throwing the most money at them. Left wing populism is nothing more than a tankie wet dream since citizens united.
- First past the post ensures that any party that tries to splinter off dooms both themselves and the party from which they splintered.
  What needs to happen is the democrats need to get tea partied.
  
  At this point there's no risk since the Democrats can't win anyway. Might as well deal with a couple split elections while the transition happens because Republicans win even if you don't
  
  Don't splinter then. Amputate.
- The real solution is to change the party in the primaries.
  As flawed as the DNC is, starting a new party will split the non-Republican vote and guarantee the GOP sweeps.
  "Change the system!" Yeah - the last Constitutional ammendment that was ratified was in 1992 and had been introduced in the Washington administration.
  
  I’ve heard this argument for 30+ years. How long do I wait for it to be true?
  
  Can't you change how the delegate election works at least at a state level?
- Buddy we don’t even have elections anymore. The voting system is no longer a relevant target.
- But how else will they keep sheepdogging everyone to vote for the billionaires?
- Starting a new party just guarantees Republicans win in landslides.
  We need to do to the Democrats, what maga did to Republicans. Primary the old fuckers with young progressive candidates.
  
  Just like how the Tea Party completely destroyed Republicans OH WAIT that's not what happened at all. Republicans moved to the right to stay relevant and here we are.
  A new popular party will force Democrats to either move to the left or become irrelevant. It's exactly what we need.

Drop the quotation marks. They're quite literally screwing us over.

Please flip the bird to the Democrats and run for president

AOC 2028
- AOC 2025
  
  Fr let’s go. We cant wait until 2028. AOC president and Bernie vice president (or something like that)? Would be a dream come true…

This is the duo we need
- They really need to start their own party. The dems are dead.

We need more of this. Mad respect to ACO and Bernie for standing with us and telling truth about this administration.

ok that's cool and all but what are they actually doing?
They've clearly demonstrated they have enough influence to draw a crowd. Plenty of activists dream of that kind of audience. Hopefully they did more than just state the obvious........ mobilize them towards non-electoral action!
- Rallying and engaging people in these states is absolutely crucial to any further strategy. There is nothing they can truly do to fight without tons of popular support. They are trying to reach some of the 90 million people who didn't care enough to vote last year, to ask them to start caring.
  It's honestly the very best thing they can use their platform to do right now.
  
  There is nothing they can truly do to fight without tons of popular support.
  That's true, absolutely, but also there's only so much hype can do without actions alongside to make people feel empowered. Plenty of people go to protests, then realize they've just stood around chanting and feel like nothing was accomplished, especially after a few times in a row. So while rallying and gaining popularity is necessary, it's not sufficient.
  On the other hand, using those crowds to accomplish actions, even minor and safe, shows to participants that this is a group and a strategy that can accomplish things.

Why is this news to anyone? He has been screwing over working class people since his casino days. His great business plan was “don’t pay any contractors until they sue me in court”.
What a surprise he is doing the same now starting with government employees.

Im tired of these rallies. What is the point? So poor Bernie can be ignored some more?
Have some balls and declare intent to secede. Civil War this bullshit. Only civil war can hurry up and get the clown out of the president seat.
- If you want civil war so bad then what are you doing sitting around all day on the internet?

Who are these two? Where were these people for the last 4 years?
- Being muzzled by the DNC
- Stumping for the second least likely person to best Trump in an election.

As if the screwing started 2 months ago and not 200 years ago
- Yes, but you can see why it's particularly relevant to bring up now. It has intensified significantly.
  
  I gave him a 'russian' tag at some point so I doubt he cares.