5mo ago

Legal experts warn of 'constitutional crisis' as JD Vance and Elon Musk question judges' authority over Trump

www.nbcnews.com

Summary

Legal experts warn of a looming constitutional crisis after JD Vance suggested judges lack authority over Trump’s "legitimate power."

His remarks follow a federal judge’s ruling blocking Trump and Elon Musk’s DOGE from accessing Treasury Department data.

Musk also called for the judge’s impeachment, fueling concerns the administration may ignore court orders.

Scholars argue this undermines judicial authority and could trigger a systemic breakdown, but with Republicans controlling Congress, impeachment as a remedy appears unlikely.

News @lemmy.world

gAlienLifeform @lemmy.world

5mo ago

Legal experts warn of 'constitutional crisis' as JD Vance and Elon Musk question judges' authority over Trump

www.nbcnews.com /politics/white-house/legal-experts-constitutional-crisis-vance-musk-judicial-rulings-trump-rcna191387

47 comments

I'm getting kinda tired of all these constitutional crisis, maybe one of the branches could start checking some of this bullshit. Just a thought.
- Would be nice but congress is Republican controlled and for any court related stuff it could just go up to the supreme Court and be ruled Trump's way. Or just flat out ignored cause who is gonna stop him if he just ignores court rulings.
  
  But the Constitution! Some people are having trouble coming to terms with the fact that our systems have allowed this takeover to happen and the path to get out of this is narrowing rapidly. I'd be surprised if 3 years from now we even recognize the US as it once was.
  
  I'm fully aware of the makeup of the Senate and the "it's ok if it's an official act, you can have little crime, as a treat" ruling by SOTUS. Our government is a house of cards built on a "gentleman's agreement" to generally not be a dick.
  I'm just sick of it already. There's a bird flu coming and the CDC cannot warn us about it and likely won't be rolling out vaccines. There will only be lockdowns in the Blue states. Which will allow the strain to become more virulent in carrier populations in Red states. Tariffs are going to fuck over small businesses allowing for more venture capital buyouts and to top it all off Elon is capturing as much data as his grubby little paws can grasp.
  I don't want to make this comment any longer as it'll fuck up the thread for everyone else, but there's resources in the comment below if any of y'all would like
  https://lemmy.world/comment/14977955
  
  The congress and the Courts don't matter. They don't have the actual physical power to enforce anything. The ones who enforce are the police and the army. That is the difference between constitutional states of laws and authoritarian regimes. Which system do the people with guns protect. And the people with guns receive their orders from the President and lower hierarchies of the executive branch.
  So either the people with guns obey their superiors and abolish the division of power, or they disobey their direct orders and remove the authoritarian upstarts from power. If they choose to enact an authoritarian regime instead of removing the authoritarians from power, the only way out is resistance. Resistance against the people giving the orders and resistance against the people enforcing the orders.
  
  Ideally, the Dems should've pushed the security out of the way and physically removed the DOGE team and their hardware and software. Instead they performatively argued with a single private security guy blocking the doors. The Dems are already capitulating talking about letting the "blue dogs" vote with the GOP.
  I'd like to see a large amount of Dems in congress and in other high positions to take direct action, get arrested, and jailed. I think this would force hard conversations in the media about what's going on, and courts and judges to more or less definitively rule.
- Rookie mistake - you guys in the US thought "checks and balances" mean another thing, but it's now clear as day that they actually refer to checks from billionaires and bank account balances...
- Say, isn't there an organization out there whose members all take an oath to defend the constitution from all threats, foreign and domestic? I wonder what that organization might have to say about something like this, can anyone get their thoughts?
- The Supreme Court has done everything but declare the Constitution null and void.
Here is a clip of JD Vance in 2021 saying this is exactly what he would tell Trump to do when he wins in 2024:
https://youtu.be/1SeJdbzBACE
“I think that what Trump should—like, if I was giving him one piece of advice—fire every single mid-level bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state, replace them with our people. And when the courts—because you will get taken to court—and when the courts stop you, stand before the country like Andrew Jackson did and say, ‘The chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it"
Can't say he didn't warn everyone
Musk must be dealt with.
- The only person who was able to say no to Elon and actually have it stick is that judge in the Delaware Chancery who denied his $55 billion payout.
  We must summon her again since it seems to be the only functioning thing left in the government capable of stopping him.
  
  Well. Maybe only person in the states. We need to look to Brazil and the EU.
  https://publiclawlibrary.org/elon-musk-concedes-in-brazil-free-speech-standoff-highlighting-global-legal-challenges-for-tech-giants/
  https://www.politico.eu/article/berlin-court-orders-x-hand-over-election-data-legal-blow-elon-musk-platform/
- He cuts social security he will be. That'll be his undoing.
  
  That's why he'll keep it for last. Once he has absolute control over everything including the military.
So.... A convicted rapist and felon doesn't trust judges and wants them to get out of the way of his other illegal and unconstitutional activities? You don't say...
This, if they start ignoring judges, is the time to protest and riot.
- The time for protests and riots was years ago my dude.
  
  The second best time is now.
Oh good so we're going to re-prosecute Marbury vs. Madison. I'm sure this won't end in civil war /s
Constitutional crisis or oligarchs' open-mic night? Legal ghouls shift to hand-wringing now that courts they weaponized for decades bend for Trump. Where was this faux outrage when Obama droned weddings or Bush gutted habeas corpus? The bench has always been a billionaires' batting cage – Musk just swapped his rocket for a gavel.
This 'crisis' is the propaganda cycle hitting puberty. Media hacks who normalized Patriot Act II suddenly care about checks and balances? Please. SCOTUS isn't corrupted – it's functioning exactly as designed: a veto board for capital.
Vance's rulings aren't an aberration – they're the theater of the absurd required to maintain empire cosplaying as democracy.
- Sarcasm aside, it would have no real power anyway.
impeachment as a remedy appears unlikely.
I can mention of a few other remedies but I don't want to be put on a list.
- You’re already on a list.
with Republicans controlling Congress, impeachment as a remedy appears unlikely.
I know what they mean, but the Republicans will be willing to impeach those judges to remedy the problem.
This constitutional crisis is "looming" in the same way the saucers were "looming" over the Whitehouse in the movie independence day. While they were firing...
"If a judge tried to tell a general how to conduct a military operation, that would be illegal.” Isn’t this premise just blatantly wrong though? A judge is to uphold the law, and aren’t there laws governing how the military operates that, if violated, could be have legal consequences?
At least, isn’t that how it’s supposed to work?
(Edit: I’m genuinely asking because I’m questioning my understanding of how these things are supposed to be balanced without giving absolute authority, as if in a dictatorship)
- Judges are more for after-the-fact rulings.
  
  Fair point but I think the argument is still that, even after, it is the judges job to say they are operating illegally and must therefore cease such operations and/or take the penalty, no?
- Where it actually breaks is unknowable, but the structure is:
  Judges determine the interpretation of the law. The executive branch enforces the law.
  Both of those branches derive their power from the constitution.
  The military protects the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. The President is the Command in Chief of the military, however service members from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to a Private fresh out of boot camp are instilled with the obligation to refuse illegal orders.
  If the Supreme Court rules on an issue and the President tries to use the military in contravention of that ruling, the military is supposed to follow the constitution, not the President.
2nd amendment does if they don’t
Legal experts warn of a looming constitutional crisis after JD Vance suggested ~~judges lack authority over Trump’s “legitimate power.”~~ "Trump is our dictator now."
This weekend, I read through "Foundations of Leninism" where Stalin says how they were totally right to setup a vanguard party that conveniently puts him in charge.
Which is to say this: congrats to JD Vance for beating Joseph Stalin on the most self-justifying horseshit I've read this weekend.
(To any tankies who are about to reply, yes, I do happen to agree with a great deal in there. It's still self-justifying horseshit for actions already taken that happened to put him in charge.)
Man with hatchet buried in his forehead warns... We may be getting close to trouble here folks, eventually.
- Say, I'm starting to think this guy is trouble.
Jesus Christ....
was this your Rubicon?

47 comments