2mo ago

.world powermod Flyingsquid harasses News mod Blackbeard off lemmy

After being harassed in multiple discord channels by powermod FlyingSquid the news mod blackbeard has shuttered his account and moved to bluesky.

https://ibb.co/cY44MgF

https://lemmy.world/u/Blackbeard

"The recklessness with which people downvote polite disagreements reminds me of all the worst parts of Reddit, and it proves to me that this isn't the social media savior I'd hoped it would be, and is instead just another echo chamber. I hope eventually lemmy.world (and the fediverse more broadly) can grow out of that, but some of the behavior I've seen on the inside from both mods and admins doesn't really inspire much confidence for that kind of evolution in the short term. "

FlyingSquid is the same mod who has the power to siteban people from lemmy.world

Why does lemmy.world keep having issues with their powermods and admins? Why do powermods get the ability to siteban their enemies from the largest instance?

101 comments

If you continue to report opinions and simple disagreements as misinformation, we will take action against your account for report abuse, same as we would any account.
It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to interpret that as a threat to ban the account.
- That one was the other way, Blackbeard threatening FlyingSquid. Blackbeard has never had the power to site ban, only community ban.
  
  Yeah - I was disagreeing with the OP. I quoted BB because later on they said "I've not even HINTED at banning you [from the community]"

Full disclosure, I tend to agree with FlyingSquid in the instance that kicked all of this off. I don't have a clear opinion of them as a mod, but personally I wish the LW mods would do a lot more about the "Kamala Harris = Hitler" type of misinformation that gets a free pass on a lot of LW.
FlyingSquid comes across as perfectly reasonable in this conversation. Their arguments that another mod thanked them for reporting stuff, that it's two reports over the course of ~~two weeks~~ a week which is hardly excessive, and then when the two people couldn't see eye to eye, they said they just wouldn't flag anything, sounds all perfectly reasonable and sensible. For some reason that wasn't okay, and the conversation got personal, with Blackbeard constantly posting these aggrieved attacks about how FlyingSquid was being childish if he didn't continue to report things in someone else's community occasionally, but never anything that the mods there thought was not worthy of removal. And then petulantly refusing to say something along the lines of, "Of course you're welcome to post there if you want" when asked repeatedly if it was okay for them to just post and participate still.
I haven't seen any Discord harassment, so maybe I missed something, but if this is what gets posted as justification for why FlyingSquid is a terrible moderator, I suspect that the "harassment" is more of the same. Maybe it's along the lines of "not saying exactly what I want you to say, or having conversation with other people where you say things I don't want you to say." People are allowed to disagree with each other over what is misinformation, or choose not to report content in someone else's community if they get some hostile responses when they do. Trying to order someone else around and then getting personally insulting with them when they politely tell you "No, I don't agree with how you see it," is ridiculous.
Edit: I don't know why I said two weeks, it was one week.
- I’m not sure I’d agree that FS comes off as perfectly reasonable because I do get a pretty strong beg me to stay or I’ll leave vibe… but I am amused that OP here read that thread and decided that FS was the aggressor here.
- I fully ack with this statement.
  There is a failure to settle what Misinformation is, FlyingSquid can't be "more discerning about flagging/reporting" that Blackbeard wished him to do. YET Blackbeard failed to answer FlyingSquad exactly what he meant by this. And in that little inciting report "equating the US runners to X,Y,Z." is not just an opinion, its defamation, a felony.
  
  Blackbeard had the option to clearly say, "We want to allow people to say any bad thing about the Democrats that they want, even if it seems clearly disingenuous or like a pattern on the part of that particular user. We don't consider that to be misinformation." That would have clarified things and my guess is that FlyingSquid wouldn't have argued with it. Blackbeard's desire to tiptoe around saying that directly, for obvious reasons, and just say "be more discerning," was what led to FlyingSquid's confusion which Blackbeard for some reason interpreted as being hostile and obstinate about it.
  It's like a flashback to every boss who gives unclear direction about expectations, even when giving you a bollocking about how you did it wrong this time and even when asked point-blank. Except, FlyingSquid isn't getting paid to put up with it, hence the "I think I just won't participate then" which is probably a lot more polite than I would have been about it.
- I agreed with you up until you said “FlyingSquid saying he won’t flag anything is super reasonable.” If I’m working with a peer and I’m an asshole to them about our shared responsibilities and they say “well fine I just won’t do the thing both of us are supposed to do any more,” I’d argue that’s childish. Granted I started it and drug them down to my level, but they’re down there too. Both sides get real fucking dramatic after that. It’s pretty clear Blackbeard started swinging and FlyingSquid came along for the ride.
  To me, the long discord screenshot is just evidence that FlyingSquid had a bad day and said some dumb shit to someone pushing his buttons. I don’t think it contributes to the evidence that he’s a bad mod; that has to come from elsewhere. If we had evidence that FlyingSquid drops down into the mud a bunch with users, not fellow moderators, that would be sufficient.
  
  But, it’s not a shared responsibility. Two times in a week he saw something in someone else’s community and flagged it, trying I guess to be a good citizen, and then he got this demanding and rude extensive DM chat about it with all these personal accusations. I sort of agree that he let his buttons get pushed, but he tried way harder to keep an open dialogue about it and reach a real resolution than I would have.
  I think about the time when he offered to just not report anything, problem solved, and Blackbeard said he was childish and ridiculous, I would have just said “I wasn’t asking. You’re not my boss, I am free to report or not report in any fashion I would like to. If you want to give me grief about my reports, but refuse to clarify which ones you do and don’t want to receive, then I will not report. Have a good one, the matter is closed as far as I’m concerned.”

Whaaat FlyingSquid made a huge deal out of a simple disagreement and made it all about themselves unprompted and made it personal? I'm shocked--that he didn't mention his offspring and him moving to England. 🙄

I'm not sure how FlyingSquid is the bad guy here when Blackbeard is the one going around DMing Lemmy users off-platform about their reports. If you disagree with the reported content, then dismiss it. Blackbeard is the one who instigated this by opening a DM with FlyingSquid to begin with. Blackbeard doesn't understand how to be a mod, it seems.
This thread is garbage. OP is bad and should feel bad.
- If you disagree with the reported content, then dismiss it.
  This is what I don't get about "report abuse". It's entirely in their power to completely ignore reports they think are unnecessary or in bad faith. They do nothing unless the mod acts on them. I got an instance ban for reporting someone that instantly resorted to cursing and insults after a minor correction from me. Apparently someone else reported the same comment (shocking) and the admin decided it was "brigading" 🙄
  
  Report abuse can be tiring for moderators to deal with, especially since they already do their job for free.

Why are Lemmy mods from .world coordinating on discord lmao
- you gotta coordinate somewhere, no?
  but yeah, matrix would have been nicer.
- It's an easy way to work together. Yeah, Matrix would have made more sense.
  They have other chat solutions as well, but not my place, so not my topic.
  When you join, you can verify, and you're added to channels for your community/ies. If you're the first, they create the community channel automatically. Overall, a good idea.
  I left the server, but for my own reasons unrelated to the mods/admins. Just needed to get rid of some discord servers.
- There are multiple back channels for coordination, I've been invited to Discord and Element, there was even (briefly) a Slack channel, but that seems to have closed due to it being a trial period or something. There are likely others I'm not aware of having not been invited.
  But it's good for mods and admins to collaborate.
  
  But they have no mutual servers in this screenshot. So it looks like someone just randomly found someone on discord which is kind of weird. Unless one of them left the server(s) you reference before the screenshot.

Flying Squid has a site wide reputation for being like this. Arguing/discussing anything with this person is like talking to a wall. Not to mention their overuse and abuse of authority.
- If you want some insight, check this user's comments and sort by controversial. Then do the same for FlyingSquid.
  Have some citations for that abuse of authority? OP alluded to abuse of authority by pointing out various powers FlyingSquid has, but in my mind very tellingly didn't actually provide any examples of abuse of authority. The screenshotted conversation, where a person with some site admin powers is reporting things as a regular user, and then when a mod gets really hostile and insulting with them, simply says "Oh, okay, I think I just won't participate in your stuff then, if my presence is unwanted," doesn't exactly paint the picture of some kind of power-mad petulant tyrant.
  
  It's clear FS has been doing this for some time and Blackbeard was getting sick and tired of it. Telling someone who regularly reports users to mind what they consider report worthy is something I imagine a lot of mods have to do. Saying "Well then, I guess I won't report anything if that's the way it's going to be" is pretty childish IMO. Especially considering FS is a mod themselves.
  FS is just very combative in nature. I've seen it several times. They're not an easy person to have a discussion with.
  
  Hey, yo, I got one! I once argued with FS about something where he continuously attempted to goad me, argued disingenuously, and acted childishly, and when I rightfully called him out on all of that, he removed my comment. It was a rather small abuse of power, but I have seen him act righteously indignant, especially when he is called out for acting like a child. He does not differentiate this from a personal attack, especially when he was very much responsible for escalating several interactions he has with others.
  
  There’s a mod log, but also from this post I just found out a bot is used to hide the admin/mod doing the actions.
- Yeah i cant believe the people defending them in this thread. I guess anyone can build up a little following of devoted supporters regardless of how childish and argumentative they behave. Really makes you think. Flying Squid does not come out of this looking good in any way.
  
  Why not? flyingsquid simply wanted clarification on how to discern what something is misinformation and what ain't.
  Blackbeard seems to not cut it as a mod.
- FS is annoying and thinks every single time someone disagrees with them, its a personal attack and they must be aligned to some power.
  Literally anytime someone used to just lightly criticize their favorite thing or person, FS would write blocks of text explaining why that opinion or fact was unjustified, and if you continued, you got banned.
  FS is annoying and acts like they are better for just random things. Literally recently they said they're trying to leave the United States, and acting like its a noble sacrifice to leave the queer and BIPOC they once "defended and care about" behind. Said "Maybe I'll give some GoFundMes, I don't care."
- Patently false and wholly unsupported, too? Tell me you've had irrational run-ins with said mod that somehow refused to react how you wanted, you know without saying it word for word, right?
- What else does an old disabled white dude have time for?

Blackbeard seems to be okay with Harris=Hitler and doesn't want an "echochamber" but is going to bluesky?
lol
lmao

I just wish FS would slow down on commenting. Lemmy world comment sections feel like a FS echo chamber because they feel the need to comment on every single post.
Even if I agree with many of their opinions, that's just not what I want out of Lemmy, so I have them filtered.

Hi, LW Community Team here.
We've made efforts to avoid the kind of supermods that existed on Reddit, and this is a great example. We've tried to have more mods with fewer communities each, and to limit the number of major communities under the same mods. This was a disagreement between two mods of major LW communities, FlyingSquid at worldnews and Blackbeard as a moderator of News and PoliticalDiscussion. Notably, this seems to be a disagreement from a couple months ago.
FlyingSquid moderates one major politically involved community (the other is closed). If Blackbeard wanted to ban him from News for report abuse, he certainly could have done that. Admins and the Community Team here try not to get overly involved in individual communities, and that wouldn't seem extremely out of line.
Blackbeard seems to have been concerned about getting side-wide banned by Flying. I've seen no evidence of anyone using the bot outside of extremely obvious scammers, trolls, and ban evasion. And I don't believe FlyingSquid would use that bot inappropriately. If that does become a problem, we'd absolutely take action. You always have the options to appeal directly to the admins (email in the LW sidebar). Currently, it's nice to have the extra help in keeping scams and spam off the site.
I do wish Blackbeard had talked to us about his concerns. He seemed to be pretty reasonable from my interactions with him. He'd be welcome back if we could get through this misunderstanding.
- Thanks for jumping in

Everyone Sucks Here.
Oh, this isn't r/AITAH? Sheesh, thought I somehow stumbled back onto reddit.

Jeeze both people come across as petty idiots. Lots of passive aggressive nonsense, and both sides want to have the last word.
Also it drives me up the wall when 2 people argue and one person tells the other to "calm down". And in this case it's "CALM DONW" and "CALM YOURSELF" between line by line quotes. So fucking childish.
I wish Blackbeard all the best on Bluesky; I think they will be disappointed. Human nature is human nature; I've been around long enough to see the cylical nature of social media. A new thing comes along, everyone joins, there is a love-in, and a "consensus" is built around how this time it's be great and what is and isn't allowed. Then things grow and a consensus that holds with 10 people breaks down with 100 or 1000, and people blame the new people for the change.
And mods at each others throats is just the nature of the beast. This has played out over and over on the internet - Usenet through to X, Reddit, etc, and the fediverse will experience the same. It's just human nature.
- No way?! This is how most online moderators act, gives them a sense of superiority and power. Both are acting fucking childish. Also lemmyworld is complete cancer.
- Agreed that both parties look bad here. Blackbeard was needlessly condescending from the onset and FlyingSquid's victim complex escalated things quickly for no reason. Blackbeard was pretty bad at communicating, but I think the calm down messages were meant to reinforce that they needed more time to respond to messages and that the idea that FlyingSquid was going to be banned or not allowed to post was apropos of nothing.
  Blackbeard should have asked FlyingSquid to clarify where the misinformation was. Unless you are trying to take the comment literally, the comment essentially says "each candidate's actions resemble those of these despised historical figures" which is too abstract to be falsifiable. Then they should have said that FlyingSquid and anyone else is welcome on the community until they show themselves as a bad actor, and that this was just a misunderstanding. And creating false reports could be rule-breaking in the sense of being spam if it's clearly malicious.

So who am I supposed to listen to?
Both of us.
Well that’s your problem right there. If a user (because in this case FlyingSquid was operating as a user) is misinterpreting the rules according to one moderator, but being encouraged to flag content by another moderator (tacit endorsement), the mod team needs to talk amongst themselves and get on the same page regarding the reports. Offering to leave was a bit dramatic, but the mod’s response of “just read the rules” was a lazy move that did nothing to get at the core problem of inconsistent encouragement/discouragement of reporting and clarification among the mod team.
- As stated in the screenshot, this happened in August. The team DID actually talk about this, and I put it to rest by hashing it out amongst both parties.
  The person posting this is doing so WELL after the fact, out of context, and after resolution.
  Neither side shared the screenshots with me, but the ones being shared proved they were shared by Blackbeard to someone. That's their prerogative, but I would have asked the other involved party prior to doing that.
  It sucks that we lost a good mod, and that this event happened (again, resolved 2 months ago).
  If the parties involved want, I can explain the entire situation. I'll DM both before I do that, though, as this wasn't my fight.

Flying Squid takes things personally rather often, and can get heated especially on controversial topics. I don't always agree with their behaviour as a user and as a mod, but tbh they are the more reasonable party in this particular exchange, though some of the responses are more annoying. The conversation could have easily ended like 1/4 of the way through by either of them. It's unclear if it's harassment to me, because I am reading it as both persistently acting childishly at times.
If they leave they leave, that's fine. No matter who is right in this, Blackbeard has no obligation to deal with stuff he doesn't want to.
Sounds like this was already resolved within the mod team. So if OP you're posting for history or were unaware, fine (but you ought to look for, ask and add surrounding context and actions, next time). If you're posting just to cause drama and a flamewar, shame on you.
Lastly, discord? Come on, we're on Lemmy here, harass people on a federated FOSS protocol like matrix! /s

Speaking to the bot thing, a few of us have access to it in order to remove egregious violations in communities where we may not be mods.
I've used it to remove CSAM accounts and posts for example. Middle of the night spam attacks, and so on.
Really it's for content in which there is no question it should be removed... when the bot is working. :) Sorry @Thekingoflorda@lemmy.world ! ;) It doesn't work a LOT!

I’m pretty sure Squid can’t siteban from lemmy.world. He’s not an admin.

Sadly this is what happens on oversized instances. If your goal is to grow, you will foster the worst community spirit. It's a shame that Blackbeard isn't giving another instance a chance.

discord 💀

joins the reddit-lite instance
mad that it's like reddit
leaves entirely instead of trying a better instance

Aw, is that what you call it? I always thought that phallic names were related to the sound they made in a mouth, and I didn't know mushrooms made a noise at all. Good for you, short king. Slay.

Want to drive a power drunk redditor crazy? Block them, do not interact with them at all. It drives those types up a wall.

So that's why my comment on Harris' position on the genocide in Palestine has been removed for misinfo, even though a quick search proved my point.
- Always has been with liberals.

News mod is a assheads. Himself.

101 comments