For a non US person this was unintelligible. I guess the took his car and he sent some paperwork sayin "it's mine give it back because I said so" and the others said "the fuck are ya talking bout?"
As I understand it, SovCits think there is this magical pool of money the government is keeping for everyone (for some nefarious purpose I don't understand), so they think they can get out off paying any debt they owe by sending some combination of paperwork that, in effect, says bill the government and have them pay it from the magic money pool. He sent, what I'm guessing is supposed to be, a bill of exchange saying bill the government. And included language that said if you don't respond that you are doing this within 3 days, the debt will be discharged and I owe you nothing. Because SovCits think they can just write things like that and they are automatically legally binding. The company ignored his nonsense and said pay us our money, so he filed a bunch of complaints with different organizations (SEC, CFPB). And despite all his flawless paperwork, the company ultimately took the car back.
They took the car back and the BoE. In the sovcit's mind, they took the car and the legal means to still pull that money out of their estate. So effectively they took the money and the asset in his eyes.
First they sent the lender some form that they didn't understand, claiming that the form itself was sufficient payment for the loaned they'd agreed to pay. The lender sent back a letter that probably said something like "no, you have to pay us real money like we agreed to" and the person responded with more forms that they don't understand instead of paying their bills.
This very predictably led to their car being repoed, since they weren't paying the loan, because they have been lied to by the people in this FB group who think notaries (people who have been licensed to confirm "this was signed by the person who's name is on the the page") and certified mail (the post office got a signature from someone to prove it was delivered, nothing else) have magic powers to make a document legally binding.
The entire idea is based on the self-contradictory argument that laws can only apply to YOU if you consent to them, but any and every oddly worded clause from any law or court decision, from anywhere and any time in the past, binds everyone else, as long as you know the right magic words to invoke.
As a US person this was unintelligible.
That's it in a nutshell.
Here's a video that explains their deal. It gets fucking wild.
Oh new rabbit hole unlocked
I like the hard to understand ones because I treat them like an English test, like I have to discover the hidden meaning behind the madness
Surprise Munecat!
But jokes aside, it is an excellent video (as usual from her).
For an American it's pretty goddamn unintelligible too.
I always find it so funny how they're against any kind of government regulation because free people are free to do business or whatever and then half their schemes is just "here's a trick with documents so you can take shit without paying".
I always wonder how much these people pay in certified letters and printing costs.
A lot! Sometimes 50 dollars for some stupid form that has no bearing on what they're trying to do.
A lot! Sometimes 50 dollars for some stupid form that has no bearing on what they’re trying to do.
The rationale is probably something like "Yes I have to pay $50, but it will save me from paying $2000" which sounds great, but critical thinkers (of which these folks are not) don't realize this is the same thing as:
"If you give me me your cow, I'll give you these magic beans" from the tale of Jack and the Beanstalk. The difference is that in real life there is no beanstalk, just a handful of beans.
SovCit requests support from US institutions after mistaken belief that labeling oneself as a SovCit is a get out of payment free card.
“Forcefield!”
I think it's time to troll them and say you were able to directly access your uppercase persons secret account... But the government had stolen it all! And that's why the magic spells haven't been working!
Then promise more info shortly, and never ever post again.
I wish I could feel bad for these dumbasses. I just don't. And I typically want good things for all people. But these selfish assholes leave me numb.
Sovcits are just greedy toxic people trying to cheat their way through life by and large, with the odd lost soul desperately trying to get out of a tough financial bind. They mostly want to get out of paying child support.
If the Dunning-Kruger Effect could generate electricity, this guy could run an AI server farm indefinitely.
He could use it to generate more filled forms to submit!
I'm just shocked that they didn't cave in to these powerful threats lmao 🤣
The sad thing is, they often do. Especially cops. We keep seeing that from posts people put up in this community.
There's a lot of "I don't get paid enough to deal with this shit" when it comes to interacting with SovCits, so they get their way a lot more often than they should.
Also, while systemic racism and classism is very much a real thing, the court system on the ground is intended to be equally accessible within the context of the (deeply flawed) laws that govern it, and many of the people working in it want to do the right thing. You have a right to represent yourself, and there is a long jurisprudence (not yet eviscerated by the
ThomasRoberts SCOTUS) of courts digging deep to find anything adjacent to reasonable within the garbage that unrepresented litigants have been known to file. That same spirit will guide some reactions to SovCit bullshit.The SovCits then view the resulting actions (documents "filed," complaints dismissed but without prejudice, default judgments against non-appearing opponents, etc. etc. etc.) as evidence that they're actually on the right track, and not simply being humored out of an abundance of caution by the authorities. A few of them post it to social media, and boom: THE PROPER PAPERWORK really works! It's still mostly just grifters telling lies, but enough truthiness sneaks it in to provide that veneer.
"Oh, the magic paperwork. Very good sir, here are the keys to your free car".
I want SovCit to take all this paperwork to court.
Please don't wish bad things on the poor legal staff. They're only trying to do their jobs.
Darrell brooks used a lot of sovereign citizen talking points in his trial. They unsurprisingly didn't work https://youtu.be/6W9r3vAQZ00
This is a really good video.
Is the Sovcit movement founded on grifting? That's something that is been thinking about recently. Because there are websites that sell fake plates and different things that these people buy. I've seen some videos where people are on the phone with advisors during traffic stops. Is this actually a business at this point?
Yes. It's largely propagated by idiot gurus who charge other idiots to learn the magic incantations that are supposed to get them around laws.
Kind of a chicken or egg scenario. Did con men spread the ideas to make money, or did they simply see a group of easy marks?
Is the sovcit movement founded on grifting?
Yes. Just like the libertarian "movement".
The thing that pisses me off is that this takes valuable time and effort on the public and private business side instead of actual, real, non-scam business. As this sovcit shit grows, they will slow down all our business too.
It must be amusing the first couple of times you run across this as a car dealership or bank or whatever, but yes it most get old quickly. My friend dealt with them in the course of her job for a while, but it was infrequent so it was just enough to be funny, since the sovcit movement isn't as popular in Canada yet.
I've been reading Canadian court transcripts this weekend (mostly to see judicial decisions on parents who clash over vaccinating their children which is interesting), and several of them use sovcit tactics. For example this one: https://www.canlii.org/en/nb/nbkb/doc/2023/2023nbkb97/2023nbkb97.html?resultId=c90ba206ff01487c88f4582dcafe8d21&searchId=2024-10-13T08:00:40:536/09c1ccfc0de84f3abba161a483a1b37a&searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAfVmFjY2luZSBjaGlsZHJlbiBuZXcgQnJ1bnN3aWNrIAAAAAAB
The father's written replies are classic sovcit language, referring to their child as their biological property.
Fall of the Western Civilisation: A story of scamming decadence
I’ve gotten better with SovCit speak, but imma going to need a glossary for this post. I got the gist but that was it.
The critical document in this story is the BOE, but I have no idea what that's supposed to stand for.
I also don't know POA. (Maybe power of attorney, but doesn't make sense).
"Recision of security interest" sounds a lot like a document that attempts to void out the part of the loan papers that let the lender repossess the car on default.
CFO is chief financial officer, an executive at the lender organization.
UCC is the Uniform Commercial Code, a set of laws enacted in most states covering business practice regarding contracts and such.
SEC is the Securities and Exchange Commission, which regulates publicly traded stocks ("securities"). This seems to confuse the investment meaning of security with the different meaning of "security" on the loan.
CFPB is the federal Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. This organization does do things to protect borrowers in default from unfair debt collection practices. I can't imagine why they wouldn't just leap into action for this case.
Finally IRS collects federal income taxes. Form 3949a is a tattle tale form that lets you report things like your friend's improper deductions to the IRS. That's real nice.
Bill of Exchange is a financial document used to facilitate payments, similar to a check or promissory note.
So sov cits admit they're dealing in commerce with their vehicles?
I think I've seen this before, idk what boe stands for but it's some sort of document that a lender can give you that basically waives needing to pay. I don't know the details and it's not like they use these things in good faith. Essentially this person is trying to get out of paying for their car. That's why it got repossessed.
I also don’t know POA. (Maybe power of attorney, but doesn’t make sense).
I get dizzy trying to follow this, but SovCit may have given the lender a limited power of attorney over the super-duper-definitely-real trust account that they've reclaimed from the fake government, so the lender can draw down the funds to pay for the car. SovCit is not a thief, after all!
It's quite literally "magic spells on scrolls."
