Study shows EV owners have bigger carbon footprint than average because they are wealthier
Study shows EV owners have bigger carbon footprint than average because they are wealthier
A pair of psychologists and an economist at the University of Turku, in Finland, have found that because the average electric vehicle (EV) owner is wealthier than the average person, they still have a bigger than average carbon footprint.
Maybe EVs are not a comprehensive climate solution??
Isn't this kind of obvious? But it has nothing to do with EVs themselves. If we count it like this, iphone owners should also have a bigger footprint. I don't think anybody is claiming EVs would eliminate all issues.
It's obvious for everyone with basic logic skills.
But that doesn't mean we can't try and twist the fact for anti-EV propaganda. Because it's really, really, really important we keep burning oil... if you are someone selling oil and have the money to spread bullshit for personal gains that is.
I guess in the ideal world wealthier people should actually emit less as they could use greener but more expensive services
They also live longer and have higher levels of education.
Hank's razor: “Whatever can be explained by socioeconomic factors, most likely is explained by socioeconomic factors”.
So their carbon footprint is unrelated to their car choice.
Fuck Carpitalism
And then charge it for that service.
That's it, there are still poor people and socialism.
That doesn't really seem to be a particularly useful study. You could probably find the exact same thing by selecting for owners of very expensive bicycles, but you would be proving exactly the same thing (which is nothing at all).
A more reasonable approach would be to split into cohorts of different levels of wealth and then compare internally between those cohorts, to see the difference in emissions of an EV owner/transit rider/biker/ICE owner is.
My gut feeling says that we'd find them ranked on the following order, from lowest emissions to highest:
- Biker
- Transit rider
- EV owner
- ICE owner
It would be interesting to check whether that gut feeling holds in real life, and particularly how much the groups differ on a per-cohort basis.
Are people wealthier because they own an EV, or are people who own an EV generally wealthier?
”The researchers found that people who purchase EVs tend to be wealthier than average”
While I think it’s good to raise awareness about carbon footprints, the fact is that carbon footprints of individuals, regardless of their socioeconomic status, pales in comparison to that of corporations. Individuals should be last on the list for reducing carbon footprints when corporations and government inefficiency produces more damage than whole populations of people combined.
Corporations aren't causing a mass extinction just for shits and giggles, they're doing it because billions of individuals buy their products and services. If the billions of individuals stopped buying it, the corporations would stop making/offering it. The rich cause more harm in the short term, but even poor people having more kids despite the biosphere not being able to sustainably support even a fraction of the current population, are more omnicidal in the longer term.
You’re right that bad consumer choices like choosing fast fashion or inefficient vehicles result in more harm than good. Though there are places where people don’t have a choice, like in what farms do to produce their meats and produce, and how it’s transported.
What energy sources we use and agriculture are bigger contributors to emissions than consumer goods. Even if people stop buying, manufacturing will happen for war and construction. Reducing emissions is a systems problem, it’s not about telling people to “be more green”. That’s a bandaid for a gushing wound.
I don’t think we should blame people if they buy an ICE car, but we should blame them if they don’t vote for progressive politicians who mandate better industry practices and invest in more green energy.
Here’s some data https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector
Do corporations produce those GHGs for fun? For their shareholders? Are the coal bonfires at company getaways? Do they build castles for shareholder using ruminant bones as a construction material? Do they use oil to build deadly oil swamps for obscure reasons? Or do they embed and package those GHG emissions to sell something to some buyer?
Maybe EV's shouldn't be packed with all the bloated features and unnecessary software. We could eliminate internal combustion engine personal vehicles if the prices were more affordable for the end consumer and our governments took a harder stance on cutting emissions.
I'd much rather a small, simple, electric sedan or hatchback with minimal features over the massive electric SUVs riddled with touch screens, wifi, self driving features, and corporate listening devices.
The Chinese are making great, very affordable EVs that are $9k brand new. But they are illegal in the US because American billionaires can't profit from them
EVs are really cheap in China. They could be cheap everywhere but capitalism and politics
I'll say it again and again and again.
As long EVs can't capture the used car market, their impact in climate is non existent.
Even worse, what do people think will happen to all those EVs in 10 years? There are no hand downs of cars with used up batteries and people that have to resort to buying 10+ year old cars don't have the spare change to get the battery replaced.
What do you think the average 10 year old car has done to that point? Battery degradation is hugely overrated and stories are based on tech already left behind.
The actual problem for the used car market is the opposite: EVs live much longer than traditional cars and thus don't lose their worth that rapidly, while on the other hand new cars still see a fast development cycle while also getting cheaper.
So no, it's not a problem of used EVs per se and that their expensive batteries are allegedly dying. It's the fact that a new EV just a couple of years later is ahead 1-2 generations and also cheaper.
My car is 10 years old. It has one of the worst Ford engines ever made and it still drives flawlessly, everything is cheap to repair and maintain. It has a radio and climate control nothing more. It's also fairly fuel efficient.
Nothing new and improved ever gets cheaper over time, that's not how it works. Manufacturers thread the waters with increased prices and if people are willing to pay that price it becomes the new baseline. That's why flagship smart phones went from $400 to $600 to $800 to $1,000 and now $1,200. That's why small lower class cars went from $15,000 to $22,000 new. That's why the new PS5 pro cost $700, etc.
Ideally the price curve of a product starts inflated, drops rapidly and then plateaus at the actual free market value of the product. EVs lasting longer than combustion engine cars (which we have zero empirical evidence by the way) and therefore staying at an inflated price point for longer, benefits nobody but the manufacturer.
I would love to buy a 7 year old EV for $8000 used and have it be my daily car for another 3-4 years. But right now something like that doesn't exist, at least not in the form of a normal sized hatchback.
And rapid development is horrible for maintainability. With billions of possible part combinations even within a single manufacturers car class it becomes impossible for a professional mechanic to repair yet alone diagnose a problem without OEM tools. People have to finally step back from their desire for individualism and accept that for the greater good a unified technical design composition is superior. At least car manufacturers caught up on that, because nowadays cars come with a bunch of features pre-installed but not unlocked in the software, that way at least from a technical standpoint the cars are equal to one another and become simpler to maintain. But the customer still has to foot the bill for all features, driving the price up even more.
EVs have chosen an absolute shit time to emerge. If this change would have happenend in the early 2000s when the car market was relatively stable design wise we wouldn't have any of those problems. Combustion and electric engines would have been able to coexist like manuals and automatics, or diesel and petrol.
Whole lotta citations needed. Here's mine:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/who-wants-to-buy-30-000-used-teslas-from-hertz.html
The high-voltage battery pack is damaged and could cause extreme safety concerns,” a Tesla technician texted him. Because the hole was “exterior damage,” it wasn’t covered by the warranty, which meant a $13,078.58 repair bill.
https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/tesla-from-hertz.31723/
You need to keep saying it so all these morons will finally understand that EVs suck for everyone but the manufacturers. They suck long term, they suck on the used market, they suck for huge swaths of humanity that don't own homes.
Tesla won't even let you buy out the vehicle at the end of the lease.
Tesla isn't the only company who makes EVs.
I personally bought both of my ev's used. And yes, one is older than 10 years and still running great, I wouldn't hesitate to replace it with one the exact same age.
Parts are out there, and it's getting easier and easier to find refurbished and replacement packs. (Pretty much the only thing that "wears out" in an EV)
In other news: water is wet and trillionaires shouldn't exist.
trillionaires
why such a high ceiling?
Conclusion: To increase the adoption rate of EVs, we must make the vast majority of people wealthy.
Incorrect, but also totally fine by me. 😄
Makes sense. I don't know any EV owners that aren't really well off financially.