1y ago

I find Gale problematic

I'm not even talking about bugs. Opinion based on act1 and very beginning of act2 experience.

1. Dialog and player choices feel railroaded as heck, options are suddenly lovelove or rude as fuck. Quality of dialog writing is very different from other parts of the game.
1. His story is r/rpghorrorstory level problematic. From DM perspective his backstory and associate npc's are especially bad choices.
It wouldn't bother as much if either was better, but both in current state just sticks out to me.

My partner thinks this character must be some executives personal OP character shoe horned in to game despite criticism.

28 comments

Eh. I haven't seen his dialogue since they apparently tweaked it, but I didn't find it that bad to begin with. There was a bit of a vibe in act 2 like "sorry you're hurt, didn't mean to lead you on, was just being nice" but thats life sometimes. /shurg
The RPGHorrorstory element... eh. I somewhat agree, mostly just in exactly how far along/established in his journey of magic he was. A young prodigy attracting Mystra's attention, and then ruining himself (and endangering others) in pursuit of more, is an interesting twist on the traditional exploration of a Wizard's hubris, the issue comes more from like "yeah, I didn't just attract Mystra's attention, I was a peer of Elminster and one of Mystra's Chosen" (conspicuous failure to mention the magical institutions of his home, EG, the Blackstaff, Vajra, Larael, etc., aside). TBH, just changing his interactions with Elminster to either double down on the implicit arrogance of assuming himself Elminster's peer, or have him be more of a fanboy, a la Karlach to Minsc and Jaheira, would've gone a long way.

The voice actor and the way he carried the jokes instantly made him one of my favourites, but I can see where you're coming from with the railroaded conversation.
His need to consume magical artefacts isn't optional. It needs to be taken care of in Act 1, where you're already relatively poor/unable to sustain his needs. Unlike Karlach, who is also a ticking time bomb, her story is far more forgiving, with the only real requirement to make sure Dammon is alive to fix her up.
It would've been nice to have more ways to "fix him" besides the choices forced upon us, like Elminster popping up and forcing another decision on us.
I'm at the start of act 3 so I don't know how his story ends, but I hope we get more options to round out the story
- I recall I told him to suck it up, then before the goblin fight gave him a single magic item and then I convinced him to suck it up again, then went into act 2 to get the elminster cutscene to fix the problem, and then back to the underdark again. You can run past the undead encounter with invisibility which is a lvl 2 spell.

I feel like he's a well written character, and people underestimate how much he changes based on player choices.
When you first meet him he's desperate and clearly hiding something, but a nice enough fellow. Then you learn he used to be a REALLY big deal (ie. Level 20 Wizard) but flew too close to the sun. Fair enough, a megalomaniac who has learned his lesson.
Then he's offered a deal: sacrifice yourself to save the world, absolve yourself of your sins, die a hero. The the thing is at first he's ON BOARD with this. The first time this solution is proposed, he can totally see the logic of it. And on face value, blowing up the Absolute right there in act 2 is the best case scenario for everyone. The enemy and all their army wiped out in one hit, without risking it all trying to fight them one by one. He has a chance to die a hero and save literally thousands of lives with his own.
But what happens is that players want to play the game. They want to see Baldur's Gate. So they convince Gale not to sacrifice himself, to make the selfish choice and choose to live. So they miss their chance to kill all three and the brain in one spot, and have to traipse around the city gathering allies for a super risky final battle.
In the process, the players turn Gale BACK into the megalomaniac he started as. Because we coached him into ignore the advice of his (very wise) peers like Mystra and Elminster, he starts thinking he's God's gift all over again. Starts coveting power, first to save his own skin, but then just for power's sake. And in the end, if you let him, he learns absolutely nothing from his whole saga: he's the same power tripping manchild he started as.
I think if theres poor writing, it's having the choice of blowing himself up in act 2. That's way too soon: if you want to see a third of the game, you HAVE to convince him to ignore him most treasured mentors and be selfish. It feels very railroady and the only version of Gale you can play as/with in act 3 is someone who has turned completely away from the path to redemption
- I disagree with your last point. Yeah, you convince him to not blow himself up, but for my Tav it amounted to "we'll find another way where you don't die." He does get pretty power hungry, but a few persuasion checks and he realizes he was backsliding and agrees with you to cut that shit out. He decides to get the crown for Mystra without seeking its power and she agrees to heal him.
  There's redemption there, you just have to push him.
  
  My point was that to enter act 3 at all, you have to have made a very big choice with Gale that can only go in one direction. That feels railroady to me.
  I agree that you can put the effort in later to turn him away from temptation, but the fact that you are forced to put him in that position to even be in act 3 is bad writing.
  I would much preferred to have been given the chance to go supernova as an option to solve the crisis in act 3. Destroy the brain and all of Baldur's gate with it, to save the continent. Or lure the brain elsewhere and destroy it there.
  As it stands it actually makes no sense why all three of the big baddies AND the brain would be in moonrise tower all at once at the end of act 2. It's almost as though they were written that way JUST for Gale's choice.
  I feel like they had a chance to do a better job of the pacing and really have a proper struggle in act 3 in Gale having to choose between personal power and redemption.

I agree. Beyond the romance bugs making him seem like a skeezy incel, his backstory is some Mary Sue shit and he has a tendency to jump on morally dubious power grabs at the slightest opportunity. (See: book in apothecary basement, Raphael, personal quest events in Act 3). He made a good first impression but he might stay in the wall on my next playthrough.
- With The Wise Man's Fear still relatively fresh in my mind, I definitely had an eye-rolling "here we go again" moment when he started telling his backstory. At least he's self-aware enough at this point to know it was ridiculous to be wanting more in his position.

I quite disagree with the rpghorrorstory feeling. It's the opposite to me, even if I see why you may feel like this.
It's the opposite because the grandiose past comes with two bond that are completely in the hands of the dm, and because it is a video game, there is no bargaining around it : you have an anciant mortal curse that you need to feed in order to survive, and you have a past with a goddess, and we all know how the power dynamic is with a god or goddess.
On the one hand it is quite some for the dm to integrate, but on the other it's even more to work with than a paladin oath, a warlock patron or a cleric god. Narrative bonds are powerful tools for the dm.
As for the writing and the dialogue options, Gale is an asshole at first, that's not bad writing in itself. I guess it could be better, but I'm no writer and I'm not good with talking to people. I find it reasonably good. With some people you can only be blunt.
I think some people are out off balance by the direct flirty behaviour though. It's funny IMO because, although I'm not a woman, I feel like this might be what women live with some men. This is the case for several characters btw, and some articles about how horny the characters can be hint me into this line of thought.
- At ttrpg, most dm's are adviced not to allow gale like backstory in to a table of normal low lvl characters, its very trouble prone and easily takes away fun and choice from others to make one character/player feel powerful.
  Plenty of Discussion online, where dm asks other dms on the internet advice about this 15 yr old teen. Who has this character gale he wants to play. Its actually cursed lvl20 wizard, literal lover of gods and has friends who are lvl20, and worst of all. Can interact with these lvl20 friend characters at low lvl. Also has a lvl9 true ress scroll on him that the other players have to use on his character, if it dies too early or the world ends.
  
  That's not gale that you're describing. You're describing an actual horror story that has absolutely nothing to do with gale, as I explain in my comment.
  The resurrection, you don't need to give him btw, you're the dm. If you were honest you would also acknowledge that there is a character in BG3 that can sell true resurrection to you for 200gp.

You can always bite his hand off...

Charmed, I'm sure.

I don't talk to gale. He casts magic missile, jump and fireball. I talk to basket the imp more.
- There's a basket the imp too?! I only know about shovel...
  
  When you meet shovel you can ask about her name and change it to basket or something else like fork i think

Gale is a weird one. He's an arrogant prick that acts as this powerful arch mage but you get him at level 1/2. I know part of it is becsuse of the whole mindflayer tadpole thing but I feel like he should have been a recruitable in act 2/3 but then he wouldn't have much reason to join you.
I was romancing karlach and most npcs acknowledged that. I didn't take a single romantic option with Gale, didn't have a single romantic scene with him, and nothing anywhere gave the idea or impression we were a thing. I progressed with Karlach enough to get the polyarmory issue with Gale and its like, bruh. We are not a thing, we were never thing. Even when talking to you I didn't have the "talk about our romance" option. Given what people say about Gale,this seems quite common. I can't help but feel like he's bugged a bit in this way.
I do see what people mean when they talk about how the npcs are really horny for your pc. I understand why but I wish they didn't start coming onto you until you take at least one flirty option.
I'm not sure how I feel about his backstory, it fits his whole arrogant prick personality but again, it feels weird when recruiting him as a level 1/2 companion. It doesn't help thst his voice actor did a very good job in selling his arrogance. Half of his dialogue is patting himself on the back and complimenting his talent with magic. He's worse than Astarion when it comes to being narcissist and you expect that from Astarion.
- Plenty of issues, big ones and small ones. From writing pov.
  Lets take a small, but significant example.
  The dialog option to ask him about his cat in act 1. People who like cats are likely to ask him this.
  Asking about cat starts innocent questions narrative path about the cat. That ends in 4 dialog options, 3 different level options to be horny towards gale and 4th option to say cats are horrible awful things.
  Some on social media say this asking about the fucking cat starts the romance. A dialog Trap? Because for cat loving people its either savescum or romance gale by accident.
  There are other dialogs where, even after successfully save scumming to avoid romancing him, your Player characters responses are tailored to be supportive fan or absolutely rude as fuck with gale. It jerks away the immersion of playing a roleplay video game.
  Its odd, because most of the other dialog ingame is very high quality and has plenty of room for many different player character "roleplay" dialog.
  
  Yes, Gale gives me the feeling that the wasn't "intended" to be a romance option and they show horned it in later since "everyone else is". It's fine to have companion that only allow platonic relationships. Gale is a weird one because you accidently fall into his romance but nothing tells you that you have. When you got the dialogue he asked me to choose and I had never committed myself to him, so I simply ended the dialogue.
  The other champions seem a lot more obvious about romance paths, but I do dislike how nearly all the "no" paths are rude or mean in some way.
- Gale is an arrogant prick
  I genuinely do not see how people have this opinion of him. He is by far the nicest character that isn't named Karlach.
  He's arguably the most noble and selfless character in the entire game.
  
  He is a "Nice guy" but he isn't a good guy.
  He's constantly overselling himself, his skills, etc. Talking like he is some master Gandalf or Dumbledore and it's like... you're level 1 dude. He has that narcissistic front and it's like "oh yea I was in a relationship with a goddess" and it's like Stay in your lane.
  It doesn't help that half of his romance building path dialog isn't romantic at all. Talking about your cat doesn't mean I want in your pants, Gale!

The choices that lead to an early game over are pretty clear about the size and scale of the solution you are taking. If you make those choices, it's not Gale's writing that is at fault.
Saying he is arrogant is also weird... He's confident, sure. But look at other mages like Rolan and Lorrorakan. They are arrogant. Gale is a man who used to be arrogant and full of hubris and is wrestling with the choices that led him to be where we find him at the start of the game. He clearly does not like who he was in the past, if you take the time to talk to him and he is constantly wrestling with choices you and he make in the course of the campaign.

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