Rebecca Cheptegei: Olympic athlete dies days after being set alight by ex-boyfriend

Most of the replies you've received are trying to explain that saying "men" are what is wrong with "people" is a generalisation that is unhelpful and harms all men.

It's true that the perp is a man, and it's also true that most violence against women is perpetrated by men. However, that doesn't mean there's a causal link between being a man and assaulting women.

It's much more likely that the addressable causes underlying this "man's" actions are poverty, lack of mental health support, and cultural norms including but not limited to religion.

When you suggest that "men" are the cause of what happened to this athlete, it's not surprising that men will be offended. To thereafter frame the obvious response as sexist is projection, frankly.

Nicely put.
The article mentions a land dispute. Kenya has a murder for land problem.

It takes many forms, including witch hunting - the spread of witch hunting in sub Saharan Africa mostly an excuse for land grabs against the weak. Old man, single women, get targeted by gangs under the guise of witch hunting. It is also fueled by Christian churches vying for power against traditional religion in the region.

Sorry, went off track a bit. But even though it was her ex who did it, it is very likely a land dispute rather than misogyny behind the horrid crime.
Men literally prey after women. When its done right its called, what, lust? Love?

A lot of men are drawn to women as their natural state.

Its not a crazy thing to say that women should be cautious around men in general is it?
- Disingenuous at best.
  
  People need to be cautious around people.
  
  The vast majority of men do not "prey" on anything, including women.
  
  I'm sorry I just don't feel very unsafe around women. Why should I? The cast majority of violence is committed by men against other men.
  
  I'm a man, and I'm wary of other men, who often attack men over women, or their ego, or their fragile state of mind has been disrupted momentarily or whatever other trivial reason men feel justified attacking people.
  
  Driving in my car = men are more likely to participate in road rage At work = men are more likely to commit violence at work than women At home = men are most likely to break and enter occupied homes In public = men are most likely to be the perpetrator of a public mass shooting public shooting.
  
  I'm a man and I agree with women. Men often react violently when angry, and women simply do not. Whether thats a power thing, and if women were bigger it would flip, but the point is, if you are generally worried about your safety, then you don't need to worry about women very much at all, and you need to worry about men very much so.
  
  Remember these are generalizations, anyone is capable of anything and women have killed men before and women have committed violence before.
  
  Everything you've listed is an absurd over statement.
  
  often attack men over women, or their ego, or their fragile state of mind has been disrupted momentarily or whatever other trivial reason men feel justified attacking people.
  
  This is simply not the reality I live in. I've never known someone to attack someone over a woman, nor their fragile state of mind?
  
  Driving in my car = men are more likely to participate in road rage At work = men are more likely to commit violence at work than women At home = men are most likely to break and enter occupied homes In public = men are most likely to be the perpetrator of a public mass shooting public shooting.
  
  I've certainly never experienced any of this and while mass shootings and robberies do occur they're so rare that being a victim of such a crime is not a tangible risk.
  
  Honestly you're more likely tripping over your shoelace and dying than any of these things actually happening.
  
  Honestly you’re more likely tripping over your shoelace
  
  Ladders. Ladders are the #1 killer. And stupid shit on top of that, like taking something down from a high shelf.
  
  You are arguing crime isnt common, I'm arguing that WHEN IT DOES HAPPEN its done by men.
  
  Since this is a conversation about who commits violence most often, it doesnt make sense to appeal to the fact that most people rarely encounter violence.
  
  For the record, I agree, people shouldn't be worried in general about this stuff. For those that are in situations where they are at risk, they should be careful around men, period.
  
  Are you arguing its stupid for a women to take preventative measures or protect themselves in all cases?
  
  I'm arguing that the risk is so minimal that no one bothers mitigating it.
  
  I might get shot today, yet I'm not wearing a ballistics vest.
  
  That seems to be mostly true for men at least. Not really for women. So far at my workplace, its the women that have had stalkers and unwanted physical advances, not the men.
  
  This is so fucking ignorant, it's like you've never actually spoken to a woman before in your life (and no, the nice lady that delivers your chicken tenders doesn't count).
  
  When men leave the house, the worst thing we walk around in fear of is ridicule and rejection. Women (rationally) fear for their personal safety. All of the time. You and I cannot even grasp what that must do to a person mentally.
  
  If you even suggest that this isn't the case, go fuck yourself. I have nothing more to say to you. Some idiotic bullshit doesn't need more of a platform on the internet than it already has, destroying the minds of young men.
  
  Edit: I fear for the women of this country given the responses I've gotten here. Gross.
  
  Sure mate.
  
  It's patently absurd to suggest that all women fear for their personal safety "all of the time" when they leave the house.
  
  Sure, there's a very few places in the world where that may be true, but it certainly is not generally true.
  
  I think your comment says more about you than it does about me.
  
  Speak to a woman. If they let you. Ask them.
  
  It took you 3 days to come up with this witty retort? I'm so disappointed.
  
  Nah... Literally cared so little about this exchange that I didn't even read the reply to it until then.
  
  When men leave the house, the worst thing we walk around in fear of is ridicule and rejection.
  
  Do you live in a cartoon? Seriously, this is complete nonsense. I worry about my personal safety very often, when an environment presents certain risks (e.g., getting robbed, mugged etc.). It's true that I don't generally fear to be sexually assaulted by a woman, but to say that men don't (need to) worry about their personal safety is completely absurd.
  
  You sound like you need to see a doctor then.
  
  Because robberies and mugging do not exist, because I should not worry about them or because they don't happen to me as a man?
  
  Because statistics are real, and you should learn how they affect you (or don't) in practical ways.
  
  I don't know where you live, but if you're in the US, unless you're walking through shitty neighborhoods in the most violent areas in your state starting shit, or asking to get jumped, then it's extremely unlikely that you will ever be mugged. Ever.
  
  It is very easy to make yourself not a target while walking in urban areas. Just basic common sense shit like stop looking at your phone and stay alert. Don't be a target, and people will leave you tf alone. It really is that simple for men.
  
  I am not a big man. I live and work in a pretty shitty area, and not once have I ever felt in danger.
  
  It must suck to be so terrified of everything all of the time.
  
  All the crimes I have mentioned are statistically way more likely than sexual assaults, a crime that notoriously happens mostly within one's home. So what you just said seems to me completely in antithesis with the original message.
  
  Also, I completely disagree with your assessment. I live in a perfectly safe city and country, but when I travel I sometimes also go in worse areas, and most importantly I don't even know whether I am in a "bad neighborhood" or not, because I don't know the place. Hence I worry for my personal safety, which is exactly what prompts for those basic measures that you listed (and more), such as not flashing wealth unnecessarily. You do this exactly because you are aware that man or not you can be victim of such crimes just as much. In fact, statistics show that men are more likely to be victims of violent crimes in general, so I am not really sure where your core thesis come from.
  
  Also worrying is not being terrified, is understanding a risk exists and taking precautions. Either way, this idea that as a man you have nothing to worry about is completely idiotic.
- Big femcel vibes. Yikes
- When the dynamic you're alluding to is done right you have the (typically, not always) woman wanting to be chased as much as the man is chasing. It's the rider saying "oooh, rollercoaster, you're so intimidating and scary, toss me around" while the rollercoaster is saying "ooooh, you like curves and airtime don't you I'll hold you fast and secure".

Someone needs to learn that "strawberries are fruits, therefore all fruits are strawberries" is idiotic 'logic'.

Basically 100% of parents who have killed their newborns by throwing them in dumpsters are women. Yet I have a feeling you'd magically understand the logical flaw in pointing to those instances and saying "what's wrong with women?", wouldn't you? Maybe something to do with the fact that the vast majority of women don't do that?

It's only your misandry that prevents you from identifying the exact same illogic directed at the demographic you're bigoted toward.

Basically 100% of parents who have killed their newborns by throwing them in dumpsters are women.

Is this article about a newborn being killed? Or is it about a woman being killed by her partner? If it's the latter, how often are women killed by their men compared to men being killed by women? If it's the latter, why are you bringing up points relevant to the former? Please, please, please answer these questions. You're engaging in the very logical fallacy you're citing.

If this were a discussion about a black man being killed by a white police officer, would it make any sense to bring up stats about black men killing white police officers? Because that's pretty much what you're doing right now in an attempt to deflect from the main issue. I often see white supremacists in conservative spaces doing this, i.e. mentioning George Floyd's criminal record or irrelevant stats about crime by black men to deflect from Derek Chauvin murdering him, and I think what you're saying is fundamentally no different-- just with women/sexism instead of black men/racism.

Edit: Nevermind, just blocked ya. You're the same clown that said this about women who fear being killed in the USA:

A completely irrational fear in the US at least, given that in a country of 340,000,000, less than 5,000 women are murdered a year. And that’s even if you pretended every single murder was by a rejected man.

Stop letting ideological propaganda make you paranoid.

Fuck off, you hate women and you're trying desperately to gaslight them.
- Is this article about a newborn being killed?
  
  No. The illustrative example was about newborn getting killed. Try to understand the point OP is making SMH.
  
  I understand the point that person's trying to make-- can they, or you, understand the counterpoint I've made? I swear, men will do the most impressive mental gymnastics to avoid acknowledging the simple fact that most violence against women is committed against men. It's so pathetic.
  
  most violence against women is committed against men.
  
  I'll leave that one for you and Freud to figure out.
  
  ...one question, though: When you say "violence", do you mean psychological, physical, or both?
- Is this article about a newborn being killed?
  
  Is the concept of an analogy really so far beyond you? Do you not understand my simple point that it would be completely unfair to point the finger at the entirety of the female sex and say "hey you, stop killing your babies", based on a crime that a tiny percentage of them commit?
  
  And that therefore one might consider that it's equally unfair to point the finger at the male sex, based on a crime that a tiny percentage of them commit?
  
  This is not exactly cryptic, you know.
  
  You're the same clown that said [that it's irrational to live life in fear of an event that has a 0.00147% of occurring]
  
  I did say that. Stating simple facts is not exactly what clowns do, though, you seem a bit confused.
  
  Fuck off, you hate women
  
  No, I hate fear-mongering used to manipulate, in all cases. In this case, it's feminist fear-mongering that tries to deceive women into thinking that murderous men are always all around them, waiting to strike the moment their guard is down.
  
  Hate it just as much as sensationalized media that deceives the public into thinking the violent crime rate is much higher than it actually is. Just to give one sex-neutral example of the exact same phenomenon.
  
  You could say I hate manipulation via deception in general.
  
  and you’re trying desperately to gaslight them.
  
  This is straight-up projection--you can't gaslight someone with facts, lol.
- Holy shit. I cannot help but laugh at the absurdity of this. Guy made a perfect example on why your viewpoint is insane, and it went so far over your head.

Yeah, it's because he was a man and not a horrible human. Gotcha.

Why respond in bad faith like this? You're clearly playing dumb.
- Pot, kettle...

Would you please provide data supporting this stance?

Already did in another comment in this thread, take a look. Cited with the link to the paper.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1635092/ <--- by all means, look up similar studies done in more recent years and you'll find the same fundamental patterns.
- Not sure what this reference is demonstrating in the context of domestic violence.
  
  That reference says
  
  77% of which involved male victims and 23% female victims
  
  So it is about killing in general not domestic violence
  
  Men kill more and are killed more. This is not a secret and not exactly demonstrating that men are wrong, just that some “industries” (e.g. organised crime) are men only clubs (not sure if this is a demonstration of anything about how good or bad men are).
  
  Do you have a reference specific to this topic?

It’s insane you’re getting this downvoted. Domestic violence from men against women is a massive global issue, and putting your hands over your ears and saying “ well I’m not the problem” is not doing anything. This problem will never get solved until men take ownership over it and stop it.

What does this even mean? What fraction of men do you presume are abusers for one, and for two, are you assuming every man knows every other man and we just bulk regulate?

This is some "all black people know each other" kind of stupid.
This problem will never get solved until men take ownership over it

Why exactly, should having a chromosome in common with a violent criminal make preventing their crime more that person's responsibility than anyone else's?

The crimes of men are not 'owned' by men. The crimes of women are not 'owned' by women. Crime is a societal ill that society collectively is responsible for preventing/catching/etc., to the best of its ability.

Don't imagine you'd be good with a girl being physically abused by her mother reporting it to a male authority figure and being told 'sorry, women gotta take ownership over this problem and solve it, it's not men's problem', would you?

Think for a moment and realize how bigoted this line of thinking actually is.
Domestic violence is a global issue. But you're not helping anyone by further pushing a stereotype and ignoring the problem. Do you think only cis men are capable of domestic violence? Because such a though would be bigoted in a few different ways to be honest.
- Are we talking about what's possible or what is likely?
  
  Here I'll answer both:
  
  Yes anyone is capable of violence
  
  95% of all murder is by men, so is much more likely.
  
  Bonus: men are far more likely to be a victim of violence than a woman. Men also should be cautious around strange new men!
  
  That stat is entirely reductive and meaningless. And two of your answers are sexist. Not that I think you give a shit.
  
  That stat is entirely reductive and meaningless.
  
  How? How is a statistic like this meaningless?
  
  If the statistic were reversed, you're going to tell me that you wouldn't care? If 95% of murders were committed by women? You don't need to answer, I already know.
  
  The reality, though, is if that were ever the case, men would immediately put a stop to it, and it would be no time before women were relegated to baby-making machines with no agency like freaks like Vance want.
  
  If the statistic were reversed, you’re going to tell me that you wouldn’t care?
  
  I'd be calling bullshit still. Sensationalized "stats" for the sake of views on "news"/blogs/podcasts is nothing new and I will not subscribe to it. I'm not sure which fallacies are in play here but I suspect it's several.
  
  If 95% of murders were committed by women? You don’t need to answer, I already know.
  
  You really don't.
  
  This is a thread about Rebecca Cheptegei and you bring Vance into this... something 100% unrelated and is frankly, disrespected to the deceased. The problem is, you spend way to much time on the internet/news cycle and now you have a screwed up view of reality. You need to largely disconnect from the internet for a significant period of time
- Don't mention that among the three primary 'sex pairings' of romantic relationships (m/f, m/m, f/f), the one with the highest incidence of domestic violence is f/f, or their head might just explode, lol...

Peace. Don't associate with men. We will all be happier the fewer people you associate with.

No.

The vast majority of the time a woman is murdered, it's at the hands of a man. Yes.

"Although women comprise more than half the U.S. population, they committed only 14.7% of the homicides noted during the study interval. More than twice as many women were shot and killed by their husband or intimate acquaintance than were murdered by strangers using guns, knives, or any other means."

I'm going to bed but there's countless other studies that show the same trend not just in the USA but in countries across the world. This paper was published in '92 and for those who doubt its legitimacy based on its age, I recommend looking up modern papers on this.

Edit: One last thing before I go to sleep. I'm not making these comments because I want to make men feel bad, or that I think the average guy on Lemmy reading this is a murderer or potential murdered. I'm saying this because as men, we need to cut the bullshit and stop acting like we don't hear other men casually talk about domestic violence, either "jokingly" or dead serious, or that we don't see other men engaging in verbal or physical abuse against women. As a POC, I feel pretty much the same way about racism-- I don't think the average white person is some KKK member but please for the love of god white folks, if you hear someone (especially your friends/family) saying/doing some racist shit, call it out!

Lotta downvotes but no responses to the study I provided. Not at all surprised. Until men are willing to simply acknowledge the existence of this problem, we've got a long way to go. Leftists on Lemmy definitely showing their true colors and it's not surprising, so many leftist spaces get ruined by sexist men who want a safe space where they can discuss racism, transphobia, homophobia but sexism... Nope.
- Dude, I 100% get what your saying.
  
  Unfortunately what your asking of people requires personal sacrifice, and people will mentally go all over the place to resist that.
  
  A personal anecdotes is that I'm no longer in contact with my family because I refused to see my racist grandfather on his deathbed and didn't attend his funeral.
  
  My grandfather was an abusive, literal stereotype of a racist(would say things like "them n-words down the road are fucking up this town") and a raging alcoholic. The world is better because he's fucking dead. Now I don't have a family of origin because I wouldn't pretend he was a good person.
  
  Men will lose friends and family if they start calling this shit out. It's hard. You get told to "mind your business" or "it's just a joke " or get your masculinity questioned. Or the whole "but they're family" thing. I get why people resist it. No one wants to lose their social support, but often that's what it comes down to, and they'll make it feel like you're the one who's in the wrong the whole time.
  
  Social pressure is a hell of a thing. I think framing the context around why men don't call this stuff out will help them recognize why they should.
- Hundreds of thousands of women are killed each year, poisoned by their doctors. this article is old but nothing has changed. is this misogyny? i thought most doctors these days are women. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25355584/
  
  Dude... What?
  
  Our prescription drugs kill us in large numbers
  
  That's the article you linked. Do you think directly, physically murdering someone is the same thing as prescribing them drugs that are potentially dangerous?
  
  Not even mentioning that the article has nothing to do with men/women.
  
  To recap, this is what your argument has devolved into: "Yeah, well, this study from over a decade ago says doctors are prescribing too much medication, and I remember hearing once that there are more women doctors than men."
  
  Really?? That's what you've got? Why are you bending over backwards to not change your mind on this no matter what evidence is provided to you?
  
  See, this is the thing that happens when you defund education for decades, and create a culture where ignorance is celebrated, and critical thinking is shunned... This is the level of "argument" and "discussion" you end up with when they're adults (big assumption there. Part of my hopes you're a literal child).
  
  No concept of basic logic, rationality, cogency, etc. It makes it very easy to win arguments like this, but it's hollow victory, because usually the other person is far too gone (and, again, lacking the ability to think critically or evaluate their own biases) to ever accept that they were wrong. They just double and triple down.
  
  It's depressing.
  
  As i said, the problem is ongoing. Were you aware of the extent of lethal poisoning by prescription drugs? did you know that each year doctors kill thousands of women this way and get away with it?
SWING and a MISS

Oh boohoo did those mean men downvote you? Just another reason to mandate isolation of genders.

Since i was a boy, i enjoyed the public library but i never understood why they always had loads of "romance novels" in a special section that only women frequented. when i was older it occurred to me to take a closer look and i was appalled. all women are disgusting. /s

Really having a hard time addressing the topic at hand, aren't you?
- Check my other comment.

Oh stfu. And we could bring up a million other things that are committed mostly by women and you wouldn't say a fucking thing.

This is a discussion about a woman who was murdered, so why on earth would you bring up irrelevant stats? There's a reason why you're deflecting. Your only contribution to this discussion is a comment telling me to "stfu" because you'd rather deflect than confront sexism. The older I get, the less surprised I am to see not so low-key sexism in leftist spaces. You could have made any kind of comment in this thread and all you decided on was "bUt wHat aBoUT [irrelevant subject]".

It's so disappointing, frustrating and downright exhausting. I fully expect this kind of rhetoric from conservatives and liberals but it just sucks to hear it in leftist spaces by people who claim to be allies to marginalized people. I honestly think I'm just going to take a break from online spaces like Lemmy and stick to my one community that just happens to be created/lead by a woman. Shit like this is why so many leftist websites and local clubs just turn into a hangout for mostly white guys cluelessly wondering why there's so little diversity. ✌🏾
- All you do is cry and complain into the void instead of empowering yourself and others.
  
  I felt empowered.

Rebecca Cheptegei: Olympic athlete dies days after being set alight by ex-boyfriend | BBC