Nato summit: Ukraine on 'irreversible path' to membership
Nato summit: Ukraine on 'irreversible path' to membership
The alliance also pledges more aid to Ukraine, but China warns it to stop "provoking confrontation".
Nato members have pledged their support for an "irreversible path" to future membership for Ukraine, as well as more aid.
While a formal timeline for it to join the military alliance was not agreed at a summit in Washington DC, the military alliance's 32 members said they had "unwavering" support for Ukraine's war effort.
Nato has also announced further integration with Ukraine's military and members have committed €40bn ($43.3bn, £33.7bn) in aid in the next year, including F-16 fighter jets and air defence support.
The bloc's Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said: "Support to Ukraine is not charity - it is in our own security interest."
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Starting to notice a lot of Tankies jumping to .world because they let .ml slide enough that enough of us ban .ml users on sight
edit: Site to Sight.
This sentiment makes me sad.
I chose .ml because it was smaller than .world (and that seemed to be the point of federation) but was also generic (my interests are very varied) and had great uptime, and didn't de-federate or had been de-federated by many instances. Now people say stuff like this and I feel the need to change instances because I don't want people to tar me with that brush (and I have been accused directly multiple times just because of my instances) but I feel conflicted because the whole point of this while thing was that we could be on any instance we liked and it shouldn't impact our "social standing". I'm disappointed in people that they can't judge a person by the content of their character rather than the instance they are on. And alas - I feel it's only a matter of time before I'm forced to change instance because of other people's prejudice.
Look, if you arent gaslighting me, and dont pretend like China and Russia would look any better than the States if they had the power over the world the States has, I dont have the time or reason to check your comment history to find out, than I feel for you. But Ml is INFESTED with Tankies now that hexbear has been banned by most of us, your mods ban legitimate criticism of Russia and China as pro Nato or Sinophobia, and 90% of comments I see from .ml users are either actively defending Russia or trying to muddy the meaning of the word Tankie. I already have to HEAVILY curate lemmy in order to stay sane on this site, I'm not going to take my chances on getting baited into a bad faith arguement for like the less than 5% of sane users left on .Marxism–Leninism
Edit: That last line of yours though gives me a red flag. Look man, if you're on .ml KNOWING that the ml stands for Marxism Lenninism, people likely arent blocking you for prejudice against .ml, they are blocking you because they find your ideals abhorrent, and jumping to another server isn't going to stop people from blocking you
Edit 2: Tankie tears are delicious
Not OP. I didn't realize what the .ml stood for, so thanks for the info!
Yeah, most of these responses from me now aren't fully for the people I'm talking to, Tankies here argue in INCREDIBLY bad faith, they lie about their intentions and purposely leave out parts of their beliefs they know are unpalatable, so I block the people I'm responding to fairly quickly. But I put rebuttles up when I have spare emotional/mental energy so that those who read can start seeing these guys for what they are (obsessed with violent revolution)
Technically the .ml stands for Mali lol
Sure, but that's not why they picked it
I'm not gas lighting you and I didn't know that was the intended acronym of .ml
If that's true then I will be moving instance.
BTW I've not been blocked (to my knowledge) by anyone- I've just had a couple of instances where I've been in discussion with someone and when they turn to ad hominem attacks they've called me a tankie or some such. Regardless of what was being discussed or my views.
What's hexbear? Another instance?
It was the most Tankie toxic instance that was around during the reddit migration, once the Gaza shitshow started full scale, they were celebrating the slaughter of Isreali citizens that Isreal used as an excuse to up their warcrimes on Gaza. Most of the new lemmy migrants realised real quick we had no tolerance for these bloodthirsty fucks and started blocking them en mass, at that point .ml was relatively low radar despite what ml stands for, but as more of us started blocking anything and everything hexbear, ml started recieving more users who werent satisfied being disgusting in silence
Oh I see. I'm not a tankie but Israeli civilians are really just settlers working to uphold apartheid and genocide. Most Israeli civilians have been killed by their own IDF. I can't feel sorry for them since they made a deal with the devil.
Lmao ok then buddy enjoy your block.
Enjoy being on the wrong side of history.
The irony is that you think the lives Hama took justifies the extermination of Palestinians.
The irony was that Kedly thought you would agree with them about Gaza, you didn’t.
Likely a demonstration of why they've been banned on some .ml community no doubt.
Wait, people actually think Russia or China would be any different of they had the US' influence? That's crazy. It's like folks never heard that quote that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Any country that ends up with that amount of influence will inevitably resort to bs to maintain that power, even if it was a harmless, pacifistic country like Switzerland.
Wait, people actually think Russia or China would be any different of they had the US’ influence?
They've got different leaders, different economies, and different cultures. Brazil, India, and Indonesia would also be different were they to enjoy US influence.
Any country that ends up with that amount of influence will inevitably resort to bs to maintain that power
There's a big difference between soft influence and hard military power. In the wake of WW2, the US enjoyed both by being the last major industrial power still standing. This offered their financial sector an enormous amount of sway in how developing/recovering countries reentered the industrial world. Similarly, they only had one remaining international military peer by the end of the war (in part because they helped the USSR rearm in the wake of German continental invasion). So they were free to throw out both banks and military bases on a global scale.
But all of this was a consequence of a unique historical moment, created at the end of the 19th century colonial era and perpetuated by the US/Soviet schism during the Cold War.
We're no longer in a Cold War, we don't have a single globe-spanning economic superpower, the US has repeated demonstrated an inability to project its military across hemispheres, and the soft financial power of the western states has eroded significantly since the 2008 financial crisis.
The BS we're seeing today is not a failure of large influential blocks to maintain influence. Its a failure of a large mercantile system to reconcile with the contradictions of an economy that demands infinite continuous upward growth.
If the US focused on internal development, rather than profit-seeking outsourcing, China and India would be integrated partners rather than rivalrous superpowers. If the US had struck a detante with the USSR and integrated their economies, rather than playing wack-a-mole with anti-colonialist uprisings across Latin America, Asia, and Africa for sixty years, we'd have a more stable industrial base and fewer poverty-driven insurrections. If the US had stopped sucking at the teet of Middle Eastern fossil fuels and pivoted to green/nuclear energy back in the 60s/70s when the time was ripe, we wouldn't be staring down the barrel of a climate apocalypse that threatens all the capital accumulation we've achieved to date. And we wouldn't have the Radical Islamic Extremism boogeyman to whip everyone into a terrified lather.
There are so many moments when things could have gone differently (for better or worse - I guess we could be living in Nuclear Winter right now). This history is not a given and the future is not set in stone.
They would also be abusive, but currently the country projecting the most power in the world is undoubtedly the US. It's not good to have a single world power that is so dominant. Us peasants are given little goodies if the ruling class feels the need to compete instead of simply occupying the number one spot in the world uncontested.
I have a VERY hard time believing you're in .ml and haven't seen users acting like Russia and China can do no wrong
I usually browse by all, but you're right, I've seen people defending them. Though thinking they would be saints if they had the power is insane to me.
Hexbear and Lemmygrad though, have incredibly weird takes to me, especially on Ukraine.
Fair enough, it doesnt sound like I'd have any problems with you in particular, not that you need to justify yourself to me
To be fair, I only joined .ml because .world wasn't a thing when I joined and srlpnk and a few others had closed registrations at that time
judge a person by the content of their character
forced to change instance because of other people's prejudice.
Sorry if I'm getting the wrong impression here, but the moderators with whom you choose to associate is pretty easy to change and not a part of who you are.
Test
This sentiment is exactly what I'm talking about.
I'm not associated with the moderators anymore than your average user of .world is associated with their's.
My point is, yes I can choose to change instance but why should I? Lemmy is meant to embody the best of us - and yet some of us are creating "us and them" situations.
I mean, we are.
Why would you join an instance where the mods don't align with your own preferences in terms of moderation?
If there were an instance where the mods were open nazis and banned any pro-LGBT posts, me being on that instance at the very least means I have no problem having to maintain that standard of conduct, if I don't actively co-sign it.
Having one or two mods who are cunts is one thing, having a whole mod/admin team with an explicit political agenda and line to toe is not the same.
Generally mods are retards, so....
Generally mods are retards, so....
And you thought that comment wouldn't be moderated?
Just tired of their horseshit.
It happens everywhere.
And you're associated with the mods in the same way that you're associated with the government representatives of your nation. And I can tell you from experience that even though I don't know the president or any of the representatives, I still get shit from people in other countries for the shit they do.
Yeah, it sucks that you're getting guilty by association, but that's just a base human trait and naivety about how humans behave won't change the fact that this shit is going to be part of any human-based micro-culture. The nice part about online communities, though, is it doesn't cost you your life savings to up and move to a more palatable location.
That's the whole difference, though. I wouldn't make the same claim about moving to another country, for which switching costs are astronomical.
I'm not naive to that fact, I just don't like it.
Eh, they use .ml to mean marxist-leninist. I have an inkling feeling you too would be wary if you saw a comment by "user@lemmy.nazi".
I was unaware of that when I posted this.
Communities on .ml are moderated in a way that pisses people off, especially in regard to politics.
People that judge someone with an .ml name on an different instance and a different community are acting like clowns. They're just being lazy and/or prejudicial.
I feel conflicted because the whole point of this while thing was that we could be on any instance we liked and it shouldn't impact our "social standing".
I don't think that was ever the point of federation, especially with defederation as an option, specifically to deal with instances that don't follow generally accepted morays.
It sucks that you're going to have to abandon the instance you initially picked, but it happens to the best of us. I picked kbin initially, and abandoned that after a while due to the increasing toxicity, and the increasingly large lack of features or development by the one person doing it.
I might judge someone based off the usage of “tar me with that brush”
Don't worry too much about it; downvote and move on.
My advice would be to just ignore people like that who rush to name calling without contributing anything to the discussion.
Just another asshole on the internet...Oh look, another .marxist-lennonist who served themselves up to my blocklist =D
Never knew this was a thing. I just choose a random instance when I joined Lemmy.
Got banned recently for being critical about "Apple & China relationship" and sourced a few articles in privacy channel or whatever its called.
I didn't know why I was banned because according to their rules and didn't break any rules, so I messaged a few mods for a response.
Please don't ban me... I joined .ml because it was privacy, security and FOSS focused! I had no idea about the ancillary political focus now associated with it.
1: I'm just a user, if its just me blocking you, it's likely not going to impact your lemmy experience much
2: While the .ml tag means I instantly am wary/distrust you, the autoblock happens when you try and justify anything Russia and China has done.
Maybe Ukraine deserved to be invaded? Block
Countries surrounding Russia lining up to join Nato is a sign of expanding US Hegemony? Block
Isreali citizens deserved to be gunned down and r***** because they are settlers and not human? You better believe thats an autoblock
(China's not currently on this example list because they havent done anything in the last few months. I guess you could replace Ukraine for Taiwan in the first example)
(But really, if you are still in .ml and not a Tankie, you should move instances, that instance is too far gone for it to recover)
edit: And before one of you fucknuts "WHATABOUT GAZA" 's me, yeah FUCK the GOVERNMENT of Isreal for what they are doing to Gaza currently, two warcrimes dont make a right
The mind of the tankie cannot comprehend such logical consistency
Mention Gaza? Block. Straight to block.
Take too long to denounce Russia? Block.
Denounce Russia too fast? Believe it or not, block. Straight to block.
We have the best echo chamber in the world, because of block.
I'm joking, obviously. Putin can die in a fire, and I want him to live long enough to suffer from it first. I just ALSO have no faith in the West to be much better. Seems like around here if you're not firmly in one camp, you must be in the other.
Look man, North America sucks, but I'd rather have the States as a Superpower than Russia or China. So if you're gonna suck those two off by defending the invasion of Ukraine or suggesting Taiwan should merge back with China, I dont have time for that. And for the Gaza thing? I dont particularly value the opinions of those who relish the thought of dehumanizing a population, The Isreal/Gaza situation is a horrific generational clusterfuck and both Hamas and the Israeli Government can go fuck theirselves, a terrorist attack, while "understandable" is never something to celebrate, and what the Isreali Government is using that as an excuse to do is abhorrent.
Edit: (Trump getting in again would definitely fuck with whether or not I'd prefer the States being the Superpower tho, although I'm not sure yet how that'd change the rankings)
Countries surrounding Russia lining up to join Nato is a sign of expanding US Hegemony? Block
But… it is, isn’t it?
Go ahead and block if you want. The important thing is that you don’t encounter any ideas that make you uncomfortable.
I wonder why its specifically the Countries surrounding Russia. You arent adding anything to my worldview with braindead takes like yours
I wonder why its specifically the Countries surrounding Russia.
Any countries joining Nato would be a sign of growing US hegemony, not just the countries around Russia.
Yeah, its a large instance, and you need some inside knowledge to know about the political leanings.
Fun fact, they chose .ml to abbreviate marxist-leninist
I joined .ml because it was privacy, security and FOSS focused!
Sort of the joke in all this. The .ml users are "raiding" the sub because they like the advanced feature set.
I chose whatever I am because it was the first one I saw when I made the jump
I'm not saying all world members are Tankies, I'm just saying that I'm seeing a whole lot more Russian apologia coming from .world users (China hasnt done something fucked in the news recently aside from that fuel/food thing that hit front page today) than I used to. Which is a similar pattern that I saw with .ml once most of us wised up to banning the fuck out of hexbear
The difference is that .world admins will ban those people if they break the rules, while .ml ones will ban those who report them.
Yeah, I'm not raising pitchforks yet, just noting an observation. If this becomes a treadmill it'd just make curating lemmy more tiring than it already is
edit: Fine, I'll rephrase. Unless mod infiltration happens, I likely wont ever raise pitchforks towards .world.
.ml and Hexbear got as bad as they did because they encouraged and sheltered Tankies, which I agree with you doesnt happen in world
On a certain level it's healthy that people who have ideologies we disagree with are allowed to participate in discussions, on the other hand on lemmy tankies are an endemic threat because they themselves don't accept or tolerate opposition, and openly abuse tolerance whenever it's extended to them.
I suggested this elsewhere but I do think the liberal side of fediverse should build some sort of moderation compact to ensure that neutrality is maintained and that subverting an instance becomes at least harder, if not impossible.
So like, I get that first point, echo chambers arent particularly healthy, but I have two points counter to that
1: The people I've decided to shut out arent really driving any real nuanced discussion. Its heavily "America Bad, Russia Good". Sure we can talk about American Hegemony, but if you want to bring it up in response to Countries seeing one of their neighbors invading another neighbor and seeking military protection from being invaded themselves, yeah no, America wasnt the driving force behind this recent push. Further, it was the most recent ignition of the Isreal Gaza clusterfuck that drove my particular hatred of Tankies. You see enough people cheering on a massacre and you dont really want to listen to them anymore
2: I'm on the internet in my free time, I'm not paid to be here, nor am I here to make the world a better place, my own mental health takes priority over contributing to a more fair and varied discussions, and Tankies are particularly bad for engaging in bad faith discussions and I dont want to get 4-5 comments into an arguement before I realise that half of what a person is saying to me is manipulative bulshit, so if they are showing all the red flags of being a Tankie, I'm just going to remove them from being a problem for my future. I've half quit Lemmy about 3 times already because of the extremism present here. I dont particularly want to hang out on r/thedonald to see the rights opinion, I'm not gonna listen to a tankie to try and figure out what a reasonable communist might think
I’m trying, but I don’t understand what this has to do with Ukraine NATO membership.
"Anyone who dares to say anything that disagrees with the official western line is a tankie" - you, basically. Anyway, all anyone has to do is look at the upvotes and downvotes to see who really is flooding .world and it's not the tankies like you claim with your victim complex post.
"Anyone who dares to say anything that disagrees with the official western line is a tankie" -
More like 'anyone with a comment history rabidly defending the acts of nations like Russia and China because anti-US'. You know, like your comment history.
You lot have been popping up here more and more as your havens get banned by people. But at least we can still block you directly.
"Rabidly defending" in this case being me simply stating that there is more to the situation than what the official western propaganda states and then having dozens of people like you jumping down my throat with angry replies and downvotes. My mistake for taking the time to respond to these people, thus giving me this "comment history". Russia is obviously in the wrong for invading Ukraine, but we need to examine why it did it so we can prevent something like that from happening in the future. Apparently there is no room for nuance for people like you, it's just good guys vs bad guys and you're obviously always the good guy.
Speaking of havens, it's also people like you who shriek endlessly about the need to eradicate all "tankies" as you march towards your goal of turning the fediverse into reddit 2.0. Go ahead and block me, you obviously can't stand to see an opinion that doesn't totally agree with your own.
Anyone who has experienced the horrors of the USSR or Russia knows appeasing them or sympathetic to nonsense like "why they invaded" as if their reason was anything beyond narcissistic theft, murder, and imperialism is either ignorant or malicious.
Please look into Soviet history, its involvement in genocide, its displacement of people, its alignment with the Nazis at the beginning of WW2, its subjevation and murder of millions of central and Eastern European countries. Normal decent people do not defend Russia.
You could make the same argument with the US yet you think they had nothing to do with the situation because...?