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Bulletins and News Discussion from March 3rd to March 9th, 2025 - Austerity And Its Consequences - COTW: Greece

Image is of a crowd protesting in Athens.

Last week, on Friday, hundreds of thousands of Greeks poured into the streets to strike and protest on the second anniversary of the deadliest train crash in Greek history, in which 57 people died when a passenger train collided with a freight train. On this February 28th, public transportation was virtually halted, with train drivers, air traffic controllers, and seafarers taking part in a 24 hour strike - alongside other professions like lawyers, teachers, and doctors.

The train crash is emblematic of the decay of state institutions brought about from austerity being forced on Greece in the aftermath of the 2008 Great Recession, in which the IMF and the EU (particularly Germany) plundered the country and forced privatization. While Greece has somewhat recovered from the dire straits it was in during the early 2010s, the consequences of neoliberalism are very clearly ongoing. Mitsotakis' right-wing government has still not even successfully implemented the necessary safety procedures two years on, and so far, nobody has been convicted nor punished for their role in the accident. The austerity measures were deeply unpopular inside Greece and yet the government did not respond to, or ignored, democratic outcry.

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  • Russia has invited Israel to the 2025 Victory Day Parade in Moscow.

    (March 3, 2025 / JNS) Russia has invited Israel to attend its Victory Day commemorations in May alongside representatives of China, Brazil, Slovakia and Serbia—but not Germany, the United States or most European Union’s member states, Russian media reported Sunday.

    The annual May 9 commemorations on Red Square in Moscow feature a military parade and speeches by the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, in recognition of the sacrifices made by his country in its war against Germany in World War II. This year is a round anniversary since the German surrender to the Red Army 80 years ago.

    A national holiday, May 9 is a major patriotic holiday in Russia and throughout much of the post-Soviet world. The holiday’s main event is the Red Square parade. In contrast to past anniversaries this year, Russia did not invite the United States, most of the European Union, Canada, Australia and other countries it deems “unfriendly,” according to News.ru.

    • The whole de-Nazifying defense comes off hollow if they're just going to cozy up to another Nazi-like regime.

      • I mean come on, that was already pretty hollow.

      • That has always been true. WW2 in Russia is a font of propaganda.

        The reality of talking about all these talking point is nobody ever talks through the primacy in relation to each other point. The war in 2022 and 2023 was prosecuted by a literal white supremacist entity. Wagner PMC was founded by a Nazi (Utkin) which is why it's called Wagner. Wagner PMC also has the Rusich Unit which is effectively their Azov.

        • @piggy@hexbear.net @ClathrateG@hexbear.net @CredibleBattery@hexbear.net @Jabril@hexbear.net

          there's a lot of

          and accusations of
          going on in this sub-thread so I request everyone pump the brakes here and disengage for the time being. denazification was always the most subjective and fundamentally unmeasurable of the SMO war aims and so arguing over it, particularly in the context of russia's special relationship with israel, seems like trying to nail pudding to a wall.

          • seems like trying to nail pudding to a wall.

            Yeah agreed. My entire point was quite literally that if you understand Russian politics this isn't out of the ordinary. For whatever reason this turned into everyone assuming I'm writing from Eglin AFB. In reality any observer of Russian politics can connect the dots on how United Russia has had a relationship with reactionary nationalism and neo-Nazism for decades. Nationalism is quite literally United Russia's only serious political position.

            It's also incredibly jarring because for some strange reason people love to jump to Navalny's fascism (esp in regards to his ideas about Chechens), but there seems to be this weird disconnect with the leaders of United Russia, the majority of whom have said that Ukrainians are not a real people.

            Medvedev:

            "Ukraine is NOT a country, but artificially collected territories"

            The Ukrainian language is NOT a language, but a surzhik (pidgin)

            Putin:

            At the same time, the idea of Ukrainian people as a nation separate from the Russians started to form and gain ground among the Polish elite and a part of the Malorussian intelligentsia. Since there was no historical basis – and could not have been any,

            Today, the ”right“ patriot of Ukraine is only the one who hates Russia. Moreover, the entire Ukrainian statehood, as we understand it, is proposed to be further built exclusively on this idea.

            Here's the most fun one Shoigu (a literal founder):

            I would not speak about Ukraine as a threat. I think that Ukraine and the Ukrainian people is a brotherly nation. They are not just our neighbors, we are a single people.

            He's not even an ethnic Russian! He's Tuvan in Russian cultural tradition, because your ethnicity follows your father (his mother was a Russian living in Ukraine to add to the fucked up 6 dimensional calipers here). What the fuck you mean single people?! You're not even a "single people" with Putin.

            Twice as strange is the fact that this is a communist site that constantly does Lenin posting who literally wrote:

            No democrat, let alone a socialist, will venture to deny the complete legitimacy of the Ukraine’s demands. And no democrat can deny the Ukraine’s right to freely secede from Russia. Only unqualified recognition of this right makes it possible to advocate a free union of the Ukrainians and the Great Russians, a voluntary association of the two peoples in one state. Only unqualified recognition of this right can actually break completely and irrevocably with the accursed tsarist past, when everything was done to bring about a mutual estrangement of the two peoples so close to each other in language, territory, character and history. Accursed tsarism made the Great Russians executioners of the Ukrainian people, and fomented in them a hatred for those who even forbade Ukrainian children to speak and study in their native tongue.

            Now I personally don't believe that Putin and Medvedev actually hold the chauvinist views strongly or more strongly than your average Russian, they are simply political operators, and this is their opening. I suggest everyone read Putin's writing which is full of hilarious tight-rope walking especially as it relates to the USSR. However the realpolitik of the situation is clear and obvious, and it's very much a "play stupid games win stupid prizes" problem for Ukraine, egged on by the US.

            What I find more than a little funny since United Russia/Putin/Medevev's leaning into fascism for a literal casus belli (and domestic political management for those paying attention) is the fact that many on this site are fine with or approving of these political moves because the fascism isn't NATO-based.

            Beyond that the idea that "all Ukrainians are fascists" in some distinct unique form from every other idiot irredentist country is very weird and racist -- and it's especially weird and racist to the Ukrainians that were murdered by Ukrainian fascists over the last 10 years, and in 1917-1922, and by all the UPA incursions, etc.

            As a Ukrainian in America it's been extremely tiring immigrating and growing up and having to deal with people fucking up my name, being xenophobic, and making stupid ass jokes, only for me in my 30's to suddenly become the currently exhalted race in America's POV, when it's entirely usurious to the US political aims. It's also been extremely tiring growing up as a Ukrainian and having to deal with this very real bullshit from my family vis-a-vis Bandera and the fucking hauntological crybaby shit about not being able to do 20th century nationalist war crimes like everyone else in Europe. Do you know how fucking weird/tiring it is for me as a Ukrainian Jew who's mother is Jewish and father is Ukrainian to have to argue with both of them including my own Jewish mother against double genocide theory? That was my 31st fucking birthday the first year the war turned hot. I called them both Nazis and paid for the meal. What's even funnier is that my extended family comes from all over the USSR. Just to my grandparent's level it's Ukraine, Moldova, Romania, Russia, Kazakhstan, and Belarus.

            There is no one more tired of this Ukraine bullshit than me. That honestly includes being tired of a lot of the contrarian "leftists" who like their lib counterparts suddenly became experts in a region of the world they didn't know existed for the majority of their lives. My one fucking ask is please be normal and stop having these extremely strong opinions on extremely complicated regional ethnic conflicts with centuries if not millennia of bad blood that you have no fucking idea about. Israel has made you guys feel overconfident. Just because the whitest American from Philadelphia is cosplaying as a Middle Easterner is saying how "his people" (Eastern Europeans) have a millennia old property claim, doesn't mean that every ethnic conflict comes from the same place of extremely simplistic made up bullshit that happened within the last century

            The contrarians are in fact doing the same thing they accuse Ukrainians of flattening everyone to a single dimensional national ethnicity. Which is ironic because Putin accuses them of doing the same thing while he does the same thing too, see how the enemy of my enemy is not actually my friend because these things aren't binary? More importantly they're fucking fake! They don't exist. There's like 8 "surviving" Ukrainian indigenous ethnicity and some of them are also likely bullshitters that started in the 1300's. This part of Eastern Europe is genocides on top of genocides, it's history is not taught to Westerners, and honestly nobody really needs your opinion that is based on a very small fraction of this history selectively filtered through your personal biases and current political outlook mixed in with extremely propagandized media diets. It's really cool that you're memeing it up with the Hunka the Jewslayer copypasta. Do you know that mainly applies to Lviv? Do you know that literally ~500 km away is Uman which is literally a pilgrimage site for Breslov Jews? Hasidism was born in Ukraine. Beyond that Ukraine has a history of Turkic people including the Tatars and Gagauz. Ukraine is the birthplace of Anarchism. Ukraine has been part of, and become independent from multiple European empires. Ukraine is literally called "borderland" because it has a rich multicultural history. The problem with your understanding of Ukraine is that it comes only from the flat fascist nationalist identity forged after Maidan. The second problem is that you're stupid enough to believe that that's all there is about it, you've taken the Nazi's at their word. Instead of challenging their worldview, you've accepted its historicity and only rejected it's morality just to score anti-NATO updoots in online "discourse".

            Remember that it's only through the "help" of your beloved Western countries in which you comfortably sit criticizing people, that this festering rot of Ukrainian nationalism survived one of the only moral purges Bolsheviks ever did. It was America and Canada who allowed these people to freeze their shitty culture in amber in the Midwest, and that allowed them to reemerge when the wall fell to reinvigorate this dying bullshit in Ukraine. It was America who pushed Maidan into a right wing neo-Nazi movement. The first thing that my father learned when he emigrated to this god forsaken country, is that in America if you want to live like it's 1915, 1933, 1947 or whatever year from whatever country, you too can move out to Ohio and make your own shitty little ghetto as you slowly Americanize into the worst mix of regressive provincial attitudes from the old and new world. It is through that weaponized immigration that this cluster fuck ultimately happened. Seriously what kind of ethnic background do you think Victoria Nuland has? It's one of those Eastern European regions that you couldn't find and don't exist on a map anymore, Bessarabia. So while Ukraine may be stained forever by the legacy of Lviv, I don't want to hear shit from the moral aristocrats of the Great Satan. The Ukrainian people as deluded and moronic as they are, they are no different than any other population including you, and ultimately they are victimized by this bullshit, and not just by their own people, but by yours, and of course the Russian ruling class. So next time, ask yourself where Hunka the Jewslayer hid, that was so far out of reach of the KGB cyanide gas that killed Bandera. Then reflect on what "people" are supposedly responsible for that.

            I'm not saying "trust Ukrainians", many of them also believe this bullshit. I'm saying stop pretending that the human narratives are as incredibly simple as every Ukrainian is a Nazi and every Russian is carrying the legacy of the USSR. If you wanna be right just stick to the realpolitik.

            • Twice as strange is the fact that this is a communist site that constantly does Lenin posting who literally wrote:

              I don't think this excerpt is relevant here. The nation question is about maintaining cohesion in a proletarian movement, nothing to do with conflicts between two bourgeois governments.

              • Only unqualified recognition of this right makes it possible to advocate a free union of the Ukrainians and the Great Russians, a voluntary association of the two peoples in one state. Only unqualified recognition of this right can actually break completely and irrevocably with the accursed tsarist past

                He's literally saying that Ukrainian people deserve self determination and the only way that the USSR can work is if Ukrainian people are free to secede or stay in the Union. This is completely antithetical to Russian chauvinist perspectives of Ukrainian people having no right to self-determination on the basis of being actually being aberrant Russians.

                • and Russian chauvinists are neither Marxists nor building communism.

                  The right of nations to self determination is only applicable to proletarian movements as a temporary stopgap, and even so many will still dispute it with good reasons (you may look at Luxemburg's argumentation, for example)

                  • Can you argue with Lenin instead of me please?

                    The right of nations to self-determination means only the right to independence in a political sense, the right to free, political secession from the oppressing nation. Concretely, this political, democratic demand implies complete freedom to carry on agitation in favour of secession, and freedom to settle the question of secession by means of a referendum of the nation that desires to secede. Consequently, this demand is by no means identical with the demand for secession, for partition, for the formation of small states. It is merely the logical expression of the struggle against national oppression in every form

                    The aim of socialism is not only to abolish the present division of mankind into small states and all national isolation; not only to bring the nations closer to each other, but also to merge them. And in order to achieve this aim, we must, on the one hand, explain to the masses the reactionary nature of the ideas of Renner and Otto Bauer concerning so-called “cultural national autonomy”[7] and, on the other hand, demand the liberation of the oppressed nations, not only in general, nebulous phrases, not in empty declamations, not by “postponing” the question until socialism is established, but in a clearly and precisely formulated political programme which shall particularly take into account the hypocrisy and cowardice of the Socialists in the oppressing nations. Just as mankind can achieve the abolition of classes only by passing through the transition period of the dictatorship of the oppressed class, so mankind can achieve the inevitable merging of nations only by passing through the transition period of complete liberation of all the oppressed nations, i.e., their freedom to secede.

                    Thanks.

                    • No one is arguing anything here. You're bringing up the right of nations to self determination in a discussion of two warring bourgeois states. There is nothing to argue that you cannot read from the very excerpts you quoted.

            • There is also the fact that your country was given land that didn't belong to it

              Case in point:show me the map where Bucovina and the Bugeac were held by a Slavic nation prior to the later Russo Turkish wars

              • Bucovina

                Lol are you seriously trying to open this can of worms?

                1. Like I give a shit about Carpathian land bullshit, I barely care about Ukrainian land bullshit.
                2. If you didn't want Bucovina to be taken away permanently maybe Romania shouldn't have allied with the fucking Nazis.

                Please get off your Romanian high horse as if the fact that your romantic language means that Western Europe treats you any differently than the rest of us Eastern European trash.

                As if the borders speak Ukrainian or Romanian or are real. Lmao.

                • Not at all,I hate the west as much and maybe a bit more than anyone here,check my profile if you think I'm on a "high horse" and how "disconnected" I am from this conflict

                  You'd be surprised

                  My point is simply to claim that any Ukrainians claiming those are core Ukrainian lands are fucking delulu

                  By the way, Ukraine wronged it's Romanian minority in similar way to it's Russian speaking one, pushing the fabricated "Moldovan" language label and refusing to open schools that teach Romanian

                  I, being from the delta also have beef with your Bîstroe canal fucking up the ecosystem so that you can circumvent using the navigable branches of the Danube in Romania

                  I don't buy into the "neither Moscow or Kiev" narrative you're pushing

                  Look, fundamentally I don't disagree with what you said about neo Nazism in Russia , their evil is nothing compared to the insane Ukrainian government and their European backers who seem dead set on expanding this conflict. Again,check my profile and you'll quickly understand why I have this stance.

                  And I do not condone our participation in the Axis,the we're lucky the soviets didn't do more,and we deserved it

                  But those lands should have been given to the Moldovan SSR,not Ukraine! Ukraine had no claim to those lands

                  • My point is simply to claim that any Ukrainians claiming those are core Ukrainian lands are fucking delulu

                    All nations are fucking made up, there's a millennia of history of people living in fucking Villages without a clue as to what' Romania or Ukraine are, all they knew was they hated the village next to them.

                    All this land recrimination bullshit is the reason why all this bullshit is unproductive. It's just reprisals and counter reprisals over a label on a fucking map. Who cares.

                    The problem is fair resource distribution and emancipation, ultimately I don't really care where the border is as long as both peoples on each side are living in peace, have fair resource distribution and are emancipated from capitalism and foreign oppression.

                    By the way, Ukraine wronged it's Romanian minority in similar way to it's Russian speaking one, pushing the fabricated "Moldovan" language label and refusing to open schools that teach Romanian

                    Yeah I also hate the language bullshit, it's entirely stupid and a manufactured social response that does the same kind of political nonproductive bullshit that ends in reprisals and counter reprisals. Half the country + president learn a whole new language in 3 years is deranged. Even if you care about "the language of the oppressor" crap (which I don't mainly because I'm a utilitarian), it's lulzy that in their liberalism they managed to fuck up multiple ethnic minorities in the state.

                    I, being from the delta also have beef with your Bîstroe canal fucking up the ecosystem so that you can circumvent using the navigable branches of the Danube in Romania

                    Yeah they're absolute idiots for that one, esp. because they just didn't maintain the Soviet canals.

                    their evil is nothing compared to the insane Ukrainian government and their European backers who seem dead set on expanding this conflict.

                    I mean the expansion of the conflict is idiotic and is a lot riskier than the "inherent threat of Russia" that's 100% true. My problem is that many Westerners on here have this pretense that Russia is some kind of "solution" to anything or "better than". That point especially coming from a "leftist" is just completely irrational. It's a completely captured oligarchic state with a single capitalist ruling party who has no ideology except maintaining power. The gap between the rich and the poor in Russia is insane and not even officially documented since the majority of the rich function in a shadow economy. United Russia is less interested in helping out normal people than the Democrats are.

                    • Maybe some people are a bit more atteched to Russia,but to me it's like this:they place value on the USSR,which I do too,it was a monumental achievement of humanity,and that sort of bleeds over into liking them as they are because they're fighting the world hegemon,NATO

                      My take is that I don't care much about the current Russian state's internal affairs, although I would like to see communism win there again, obviously,but I care more about them taking on NATO and beginning to shatter this monster through this conflict

                      Whatever you may say,this was a big big blow to western hegemony and it's potentially paving the way for a multipolar world

                      Personally as long as Russia is satisfied with their gains in Ukraine and work to undermine NATO and the EU through non-military mean,I can't say they are as evil as the west

                      • Whatever you may say,this was a big big blow to western hegemony and it's potentially paving the way for a multipolar world

                        Personally as long as Russia is satisfied with their gains in Ukraine and work to undermine NATO and the EU through non-military mean,I can't say they are as evil as the west

                        The question really is "why should Ukraine pay?" for a geopolitical play between two great powers. Ultimately they got scammed regardless of how you look at it. The whole point is that this is not something a socialist should advocate for because the people who are paying for it (Ukrainians) do not have the power to say no.

                        This is essentially the same argument that squishy leftists make about rolling the clock back to the 1950's in the US. A "reset" of capitalism to a better place for workers. The problem is that you're still stuck in this system, nothing has structurally changed, except the allocations. In much the same way the destruction of NATO whether fast or slow will come, the reality is that the current way that NATO is falling apart is not transforming the situation into something structurally better.

                        Likewise any "acceleration" or "chaos" argument falls flat as well because there are no Bolsheviks to take advantage of it so to speak.

            • Just want to say that you're not screaming into a wall and that I appreciate your posts on this thread, even if I'm still iffy on some points or some wording. The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy, no more, no less; American defeats, and euroland's, as far as it matters, creates opportunities for liberation, but that says nothing about anyone's intents. A lot of the western left is so obsessed with being anti-west that it ends up claiming Russia is liberating workers, genders are real, or that sars-cov-2 is both harmless and a biological weapon (avoiding using talking points related to the Hexbear community, it has its own). Frankly, it looks like the world needs us to have a century of humiliation of our own to grow up. If the rest of Ukraine wants to have anti-Russian as the national mythos, so be it. They should be allowed to be a rump failed state as long as they want to, there's not much you can do about it without doing "nation building".

          • Piggy just got banned for being a transphobe Nazi so I think I can safely say we won this one

          • The breaks were not pumped, I removed some stuff and handed out a temp ban. If you disagree feel free to let me know or reverse, looks like you were already on top of this.

            Folks when the mods are asking you to chill out maybe chill out?

        • You're talking about a couple dozen guys in Rusich to a couple thousand in Wagner. For the latter, there is no evidence any of them are Nazis. Even if the claims about Utkin being a Nazi are true, even if literally all of them are Nazis (which there is no evidence for), they are a small fraction of fighters for Russia and have effectively been used as cannon fodder. They have no power and no control, are a small group, and have been taken out by Russia as soon as they step out of line. It's very silly to assert that white supremacists were in any way a central or leading figure in the SMO. This is lib propaganda to distract from the tens of thousands of Nazis literally running Ukraine.

          • There is no point debating "who has the most Nazis" (it's also Russia at this point, too many Ukrainian Nazis reddited themselves into an early grave). Russia and Ukraine prior to the war were both hot zones for Neo Nazi activity globally (The Base is a good example). Russia just like Ukraine has a policy of managed nationalism through both unofficial groups and official groups like BORN and Nashi. You're not going to convince me that one is better than the other, because they both suck and I speak both languages. The pretense that Russia isn't also a right wing nationalist state with heavy neo-nazi collaboration is quite literally propaganda.

            • It's not about who has the most Nazis, it's who props up the Nazis into positions of power and who, at most, utilizes them as cannon fodder. Openly Nazi Ukrainians are in institutional positions of power. they are police chiefs, military commanders, mayors, educators, and more. They name their fucking parks and streets after Nazis and build literal monuments to them. Being a Nazi is not legal in Russia. There aren't in open Nazis in power. Maybe there are closeted Nazis in power, but the fact that they have to be closeted is a big difference from in Ukraine. In Russia the monuments and streets are for the people who killed Nazis, not for Nazis themselves. There is such a clear difference in the way each nation operates on this subject, it's not even close. In one post you are claiming Russian Nazis were the ones responsible for the fighting in 2022 and 2023, and in another you're saying Ukrainian nazis aren't that big of force in Ukraine. This is totally the opposite of truth

              • Being a Nazi is not legal in Russia.

                Utkin literally started a state sanctioned PMC. Met with Putin multiple times. Has a literal Untersturmführer tattoo on his collar bones and an SS war eagle on his right breast.

                You have no idea what you're talking about.

                CW: Nazi tattoos.

                • Okay, a better phrasing would be "nazi organizing is not legal in Russia." He was not organizing a nazi group, he was a military leader for a PMC which did Russia's bidding, none of which was Nazi shit. He was a part of the founding team because he is a military guy but there is no evidence he was calling any shots outside of field of battle.

                  Wagner being in Syria, Libya, Mali, or Ukraine had nothing to do with advancing Nazi goals. This was a guy who happens to be a Nazi spending his free time killing US backed jihadists (and nazis) for money.

                  A single guy being a Nazi who was literally killed by Putin doesn't back up your position that Russia is just teeming with Nazis who are in fact the ones who were "prosecuting the war in 2022 and 2023"

                  It also doesn't justify your position that the Ukranian nazi situation isn't as bad as it really is.

                  This is literally the NAFO lib brain rot positions on Russia. "Russia is actually the nazis, not ukraine"

                • Utkin

                  Utkin? The guy who's been dead since 2023? The same guy the rusians killed along with Prigozhin?

                  You have no idea what you're talking about.

                  You clearly have no idea what you're talking about since you think he's still alive, lol.

                  you're just looking for cheap owns, get out of here, lib.

                  • The "You can't be a Nazi in Russia" law was passed in 2002. PMC Wagner was founded in 2014. Do that math for me buddy! I know that Utkin and Prigozhin are dead. That pic with Putin you're responding to was during an Order of Courage commemoration where Utkin received one in 2016.

                    You're gonna really stand here and pretend that if I drag out more and more obscure Nazi's and their connections you're gonna listen to me. You're just gonna be brain dead about it because if Ukraine is bad Russia must be good. I've literally listed 2 orgs above that had explicit ties to the government.

                    You and plenty of other commenters here are just having fun taking sides.

                    Also it's really hilarious Utkin was:

                    • An open neo-Nazi
                    • Advanced in GRU to LT Colonel
                    • Graduated to be given his own PMC literally to wage the Russian side of the proxy war in 2014-2022
                    • Over his career got 4 Orders of Courage
                    • Then was taken care of in an accident

                    If we named him "Danny Duckhouser" and his president was "Barack Obama" and he had the same career you guys would be all over this man as a limited hang out. Or is the Slav brain too small to do these high minded CIA style crimes?

                    If you knew anything about the Russian government this forms the same pattern with Nashi and BORN, where the government runs these morons like dogs and then leaves them out in the cold. That's the real "big" difference between Russian and Ukrainian Nazis. Russian Nazis are tools, Ukrainian Nazis have actual agency.

                    • you're gonna listen to me.

                      I'm just not going to because you're a debatebro, and the ethnic cleansing of civilians, sanctioned by the ukrainian government, is not up for debate, redditor.

                      • I'm just not going to because you're a debatebro, and the ethnic cleansing of civilians, sanctioned by the ukrainian government, is not up for debate, redditor.

                        Nobody is debating that. I have never denied atrocities in the DNR/LNR. You literally are frothing at the mouth because I called the "anti Ukraine" bad too.

    • Praying bibi accepts and plays with a grenade as he's over Russian airspace because he got the idea from that Wagner guy

    • I think Russia invites the president of Israel to the victory parade quite often, ultimately WW2 is known for the Holocaust for obvious reasons, so having the president of what's seen as the Jewish state present is seen as important. I know that Netanyahu has attended previous victory parades before, and that the president of Israel attended in 2005, along with G.W Bush during the height of the Iraq war.

      • Russia effectively exports white people to Israel, they're very cozy. Russia is Israel's main supplier of oil. Which is why the Ukraine and Gaza Wars have always been funny from the

        perspective.

    • And Russia was also forbidden from attending the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz on 27 January. Satan, whose government policy is verbatim that of Hitler's policies of Lebensraum and Final Solution, used his platform to declare the ICJ/ICC, South Africa and every Palestinian as an extension of the Third Reich, so extremely huge Holocaust revisionism energy there.

      Satan has been granted exemption from the ICC's arrest warrant by much of the EU including Germany and Poland on the grounds of white supremacy.

      Russia's, or more accurately, the USSR's role in freeing much of the camps has largely been disregarded as "Kremlin propaganda" following the war in uKKKraine.

      Inviting "israel" to the Victory Day parade is a massive

        • The amount of people who were directly affected by WW2 in Russia is slim at best.

          ...? We're not even close to that point. Here in the UK everyone has a great grandparent that they physically remember talking about the war, and dead ones at that. Multiply that 100x for the USSR.

          Then there are the cultural scars. These things never go away. The UK still has longterm scars from fighting France hundreds of years ago. You can't just bury stuff. It doesn't work this way. The state might want to try and bury old scars but the people that hold emotional links with those roots will continue. If a state doesn't take part in the events those people want to hold then the people who organise those events without the state would become influential and a threat. Think about events like George Floyd memorials that the US state wants no part in but that provide influence platforms to its organisers. Now think of that but at the national scale of ww2 memorialism. The reason the state takes part in organising events its people feel emotionally connected with is partially about making sure it can control those events. They will happen with or without the state in some regard.

          We should honestly just bury this war. Nothing good came from it. We didn't learn shit on the macro level. Celebrating it is just a pointless act meant to embolden the concept of nations.

          The first total defeat of the fascists was not "pointless at best". Especially when you understand fascism exists as a reaction to socialism.

          • ...? We're not even close to that point. Here in the UK everyone has a great grandparent that they physically remember talking about the war, and dead ones at that. Multiply that 100x for the USSR.

            My own grandmother was born in 1942 in Kazakhstan while my great Grandma was on the run from Barbarossa.

            My other grandmother was behind the Barbarossa front as a child.

            They both didn't really have an affinity for the war cause, other than the fact that some of our relatives had to fight. My great grandfather was KIA in the Red Army and several members of my extended family. Plus all the Jews in my family that got consolidated. None of my family have ever gone to a VDay parade as long as I've been alive. It's literally propaganda. You don't live in the culture.

            You're out here arguing for something that's the equivalent of going to an Air Show on the 4th of July in America. I swear to god you people have a fetish. You don't realize that your ambient Western Liberal patriotism doesn't really transfer past the Iron Curtain.

            The UK still has longterm scars from fighting France hundreds of years ago. You can't just bury stuff. It doesn't work this way.

            Oh boy it's epigenetic trauma time.

            The first total defeat of the fascists was not "pointless at best". Especially when you understand fascism exists as a reaction to socialism.

            Yeah "total defeat" by hiding them in the West.

            • Oh boy it's epigenetic trauma time.

              You're the only one here talking about genes.

              • Yeah, intergenerational trauma is 100% real, and you could see it just by talking to people. You have people with behavioral problems who can trace it back to grandparents who abuse their parents.

                War scars entire generations of people. War scars the land. There are people in Vietnam who are born with birth defects because of Agent Orange and Vietnam has to still disarm UXO.

            • Oh boy it's epigenetic trauma time.

              Would you say this to one of our African American comrades on here? Our indigenous comrades? They should all just "get over" the history of their close ancestors because your family did?

              I was thinking you wouldn't be able to dig your hole any deeper, but turns out I was wrong.

              • Epigenetic trauma has no scientific backing, there is no research to point to. The entire concept was invented from a paper whose participants were 32 children of Holocaust survivors. The concept is literally like 30 years old with no scientifically accepted proof. It's a belief.

        • The amount of people who were directly affected by WW2 in Russia is slim at best

          what???

          • Mixed up my tenses.

            The amount of people that are still alive and were directly affected by WW2 in Russia is slim at best. The minimum age to have been alive then is 84. There are only around 5,021,000 people in Russia that are older, which is 3% of the population. 90+ years old is like ~1%.

            There are almost no fighters of WW2 only children.

        • Please cool off, you got to the point in this debatebro rant that you're just denying all the bad things Germany did in WW2 and all the effort the Soviets did to stop them.

          • Cool rant over a grammar mistake.

            My great grandfather was KIA in the Red Army. Thanks for your artesinal Pindostan outrage.

        • my grandpa remembers the war, and he like died just last year - its not that far away yet.

    • Extremely disappointing but I am curious what the hell he's doing, given the growing relationship they have with Iran. If it goes any further than inviting to parades then I'm curious if Putin is angry at Iran for some reason, perhaps over Syria.

      • I mean, Israel has ties with virtually all great powers. They cooperate with China on miltech and surveillance. They cooperate with Russia on diplomacy. And they are the real 51st state. Not too long ago we had news of Israel lobbying the US to help Russia keep/retake bases in Syria to counterbalance HTS/Turkey, while also making public overtures towards the SDF. Israel will and does deal with everybody, including those arabs they aren't genociding like Egypt, Jordan, Saudi and so on.

    • Russian is one of the most widespread languages of Israel, many israelis are in fact former citizens of the soviet union.

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