[USA] Appeals court rules that cops can physically make you unlock your phone

What a terrible decision. That's like saying if you have a house key they can search your house.

There’s a reason they keep you focused on the first two amendments. Don’t want you realizing how comfortable they are with unregulated search and seizure.
Honestly idk how the civil forfeiture can possibly be considered constitutional
- They can't be, at least not without a trial.
  That won't stop the Court.
- Sneaky fuckers thought I forgot about the third amendment.
they did in fact use the data seized from his phone to find his house, then took his key and searched it
There are finger print locks for doors available commercially too
His attorney probably should have raised that objection in the first place. He should have objected based on the phone not being material to the search of the car. But if he didn't raise the objection correctly during the initial trial, then he can't raise the objection on the appeal either.

That's why passwords are safer in this situation. Cops can't compel you to reveal it.

Oblig:
- I miss when crypto nerd meant cryptography nerd
Yeah, unfortunately, this isn't a new thing, just upholding the old standard. I explicitly avoid fingerprint and face recognition features because of this. Your fingerprint and your face are legally considered what you are, so things like 5th amendment right to avoid self incrimination don't apply, but passwords and PINs are legally considered what you know, so you can't be forced to divulge.
- The wrinkle in this case is that the thumb print giver was in parole. The conditions of parole stated that failure to divulge phone pass codes on phones could result in arrest and phone seizure "pending further investigation". The parole conditions didn't say anything about forcible thumb print taking.
  So the logic here seems to be:
  If he had agreed to unlock the phone then the result would be the same.
  If he refused to unlock the phone, that is a legitimate grounds for arrest. Fingerprinting is a routine part of being arrested, so there's really no harm if it's done on a phone in a patrol car. Either way, the result would end up about the same.
- I just have lockdown mode enabled from the power menu so that it forces pass code login instead of allow fingerprint login.
  Never been pulled over or talked to a cop (other than family members) in my life.
You can use the lockdown mode on Android, but you have to remember to turn it on.
- Android: Search settings for “Lockdown” and enable “Show lockdown option”
  When needed hold the power button and the lockdown option will appear alongside the standard power menu options.
  IOS: Hold the Lock button and either volume button to show the power off screen. Cancel out and FaceID will be disabled until you use your pin to unlock the phone.

By physical here, they mean using your biometrics by force. They're still not allowed to beat you with a rubber hose.
A court, however, can force you to give up a password or hold you in contempt (which is essentially the rubber hose option). Having false unlocks defeats that
- A court, however, can force you to give up a password or hold you in contempt (which is essentially the rubber hose option)
  That remains to be seen; I don't think that there's ever been a definitive ruling on this in the US. One real problem is that they would have to be able to prove that you knew the password, and that can be a real problem. I have an old Tails drive; it's been years since I used it, and I have no idea what the password is anymore. Shit, I sometimes have a brain fart and can't remember the passphrase for my password manager, and I use that a lot.
*Veracrypt, Truecrypt is no longer maintained

iPhone users:

DO NOT USE FINGERPRINT unless you absolutely have to for, say, disability reasons.
if you use facial recognition, don’t. Same as above.
If you find yourselves in a situation with the police, tap the lock button 5 times. This forces a passcode to open the phone and they cannot (yet) force you to enter a passcode.

Anytime I am filming a protest or anywhere near police, I just tap the lock button a bunch of times in my pocket and I can rest easy.

Samsung users (not sure if it also applies to other android flavors):
Go to settings>lock screen>secure lock>show lockdown option and turn it on.
Now if you hold the power button for over a second, a menu pops up with an option to turn on lockdown mode. This disables all biometric unlock methods until the next time you unlock it.
- You can also turn the phone off.
  Edit: and I also have this on my Pixel so this may apply to all versions of android
You can also just hold power + volume up while it’s locked, once you feel the buzz it won’t accept biometrics until you put in the password.
- On Motorola it's press power + volume up button and then the lockdown button.
on android you can get Private Lock which locks your phone and disables biometric unlock, when the phone is shaken hard enough
Holy crap this is a great tip I did not know! I haven't had a run in with the police in like a decade, but better safe than sorry. Hopefully I never need to use it, but I just tried it on my iphone and works like a charm, so thanks mate!
- Another dude pointed out you can hold lock + volume up as well
I learned something from my (quite activists) daughters recently: they delete the Signal app each time they cross a border.
It's the main coordination and information tool in their circles, and the recommended behavior is just to not have the app when at risk.
Good luck finding incriminating evidence stifling through zillions of Pouting Selfies and Gossip-Sharing Screenshots of Idiot Boyfriend' text messages.
Anytime I am filming a protest or anywhere near police, I just tap the lock button a bunch of times in my pocket and I can rest easy.
How does that help if the police are the ones that alert you to their presence? I highly recommend against quickly shoving your hand in your pocket to tap a button 5 times.
- I do it in anticipation. It’s not like they sneak up on you like a ninja. They are very clearly around.
  Plus it takes like 2 seconds. Unless they got you at gunpoint you’re probably going to have an opportunity to accomplish this. Most people interact with police in the US being pulled over - you’re telling me you can’t lock your phone before they come to your window?

OP can you put the country in the title? Like [US] for example

Done!

Luckily GrapheneOS has a duress passowrd feature. Very useful for these situatuons!

I didn't know that. Is that in settings somewhere?
Edit: yep, see it now. Damn this must be new or I never looked into it.
- It's new as of about 1-2 months ago.
How does it work? Can someone use a specified finger to trigger the password requirement?
- Nore information at: https://grapheneos.org/features#duress
- Passcode. Not fingerprint.

Wasn't there a court ruling that forcing someone to unlock their phone was unconstitutional? The fourth amendment seems to indicate a warrent at least is required to search someone's papers, in the modern era that should apply to phones, obviously the constitution is meaningless if they want to do whatever but still.

Edit: in Riley v. California (2014) the Supreme Court unanimously decided that warrentless search of a cellphone during an arrest was unconstitutional.

The laws vary from state to state, and I am not a lawyer. But in general, I think it works like this. Things like your fingerprints, face, retina, etc, identify you. In many states, if the cops ask for your identification you are required to give it to them, and they are allowed to force the issue. Things like passwords, access to the interior of your home or vehicle, access to your business files, and things like that are not your identity and normally require a judge to sign a warrant (unless there are "extenuating circumstances").
Personally, I think the forcing you to unlock your phone without a warrant is bullshit, especially since they have the upper hand anyway. And the phone isn't going anywhere and neither are you. In most cases they have plenty of time to get a warrant.
- This is why everyone should go into their phone settings and enable the lockdown mode option if it's avaialbe. When I get pulled over I hold the power button and choose lockdown mode and then the only thing that will unlock the phone is my password. But my camera still works.
  If your phone doesn't have the option, just restart your phone. There's a reason phones require the password and not biometrics on startup.
- Things like passwords, access to the interior of your home or vehicle, access to your business files, and things like that are not your identity and normally require a judge to sign a warrant
  This is exactly it. If I get arrested and they confiscate my house keys as part of entering jail, they don't have automatic implicit permission to search my house.
- My house key identifies me almost as well as my license. Seems like if they can use my thumb to unlock and enter my phone they could use my house key to unlock and enter my house.
- There are two related but distinct issues, and I hope to keep them separate otherwise the conversation goes in circles:
  1 - Can police under the circumstances look at the contents of the phone at all? This is to say, if the phone is completely unlocked, can they look through it?
  2 - If the police are allowed to look at the contents, but the phone is locked, in what ways can the police unlock it?
  Subject 1: This is by far the more important question, and the one that seems to get ignored in discussions of phone searches like this. I would argue that under most circumstances there is no probable cause to search a phone- the phone can not contain drugs or weapons or other contraband, so to me this is the larger hurdle for police. Police should have to justify what illegal thing they think is on the phone that gives them probable cause, and I don't think that pictures of illegal things are the same as the illegal things themselves. Lawyers would have to hash this out, because I do notice the suspect here was on parole so perhaps there is a clause of parole for this or something. But this is the bigger, much bigger issue- can police even look at the contents? There is an argument from the pro-search side that constants of an unlocked phone are in plain view, and so that right there is a big nexus for the issue.
  Subject 2: If we assume yes, only then does subject 2 become an issue. How much can police compel? Well, they can't compel speech. A passcode would count as protected speech, so they can't compel that. Biometrics however, from what I have seen of court reasoning, tend to be viewed as something a person has rather than something they know. This would be analogue to a locked container with a combination lock compared to a key. The police can not compel the combo, but if they find they key in your pocket they can take it and use it.
  If you are up in arms about privacy, my view is not to fall into the trap of focusing on 2 and the finer mechanics of where the line for what kinds of ways to lock a phone are, and focus on subject 1. Reduce the circumstances in which searching a phone is acceptable, even if the phone is unlocked to begin with.
This is really about how to ensure they can't unlock your phone even if they have a warrant. They can't physically force you to give them the right code. SO they have to buy expensive software to clone the phone and try various passwords on the clones.
The appeals courts are always willing to test SCOTUS decisions. Now it's up to SCOTUS to defend it or not. It was a unanimous decision, specifically based on data privacy rights. So there's actually hope for it.

Laughs in Galaxy S8 where the fingerprint scanner only works if all planets are properly aligned which happens only once in 28 years.

Dude I have this old Galaxy XCover thing for my work phone and I swear to god I've wasted 3x as much time repeating the stupid fingerprint unlock over and over than if I just always used my PIN. It's such a piece of shit.
"Cover the entire fingerprint sensor" "The fingerprint doesn't match" "Try wiping the fingerprint sensor" "Try fingerprint again in 28 seconds"
Try going ahead and fucking off, Samsung.

This has been the law for a while, it's just that more Circuits are aligning. Don't use biometrics if you don't want LEO to be able to access your phone. A password is covered by 5A in some circuits and in others it's likely sufficient to just refuse or claim faulty memory due to the stress of the situation. Regardless of the location, the contents of the device are covered by 4A and you may succeed in getting a lot of whatever is found thrown out -- classic you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride.

And this is why you never, ever, EVER enable biometrics. EVER. Make a damn password or at least a very long PIN and enter that shit every time.

For people who don't want to do that: turn off your phone if there's the likelihood that your phone will be confiscated soon (crossing a state border or getting a perquisition). This will
Disable biometrics
Encrypt everything
- On Android, entering lockdown mode does the same thing. You can do it by pressing volume-up and power at the same time, then tapping Lockdown.
- And this only makes it more expensive and time consuming to unlock. So if you're small fry, they won't waste the resources. But if you are a "person of interest" don't be dumb, bring a burner phone.
Completely agree. There are a surprising number of folks who should know better who will swear up and down how safe they are. If they like the convenience and the "cool factor" of using them....that's fine, whatever, none of my business. Just don't try to gaslight me that they are safe.
Or power it off when they ask for it to disable biometric unlock.
- Not always an option. Sometimes reaching for your phone to turn it off will get you killed. Just don't use biometrics.

The 9th circuit court judges really have no fucking clue about technology do they

Worth noting, with the caveat that how criminals are treated could eventually become how everyone is treated on the right slippery slope:

provisions of his parole required him to surrender any electronic devices and passcodes

Unfortunately the judge also ruled that it's no different than forcing someone to give their fingerprints when you book them. If this sets a precedent, it could apply to anyone getting arrested, not just parolees / prior convicts.
Not everyone, just proles.
- Ole Donnie T is technically in parole right now. Would love to see this provision applied in that case.
Wow, that is supremely fucked up. Parole shouldn't require breaching the privacy of anyone who has conversation history stored on the parolee's devices.

I've said it before that I'll say it again: Biometrics are a convenience to allow you or anyone else to unlock your phone quickly. Biometrics are NOT security.

DO NOT use biometrics to secure your phone unless you want anyone who has you and your phone to be able to unlock your phone without your permission.

Biometrics are not secret and should not be used in place of passwords. They are identity like a user name. It's the same problem with orgs trying to use ssn as a security challenge, with all the beaches pretty much everyone's is already public knowledge.

For some reason the typo on beaches got me to laugh. Beaches are a very revealing place I suppose, I felt exposed already when I went to them.
i disagree, while not secret, i think a warrant should be required to use them, since it effectively bypasses password auth.

PSA FOR IPHONE:

if you press volume up, then volume down, then hold the power button until the power slider comes on, then it will disable biometrics until next unlock

For GrapheneOS (custom android), there is Lockdown button next to power off and restart which does the same thing. I think it may be on other Android phones as well but not sure.
- Yeah, it's a feature on stock android. Should be in most android flavors
- Graphene even has an option to enter a fake pin and wipe the phone iirc.
Legit.
Do you have to slide the power slider and turn off your phone for it to work? Or does it disable biometric as the slider show up?
- as soon as it shows up, i have also learned in this thread that clicking the power button 5 times does the same
- I just tested it... it's the same combination for a fast shutdown. Up > Down > Hold Power (1 second hold), then you're introduced to the option of sliding to power off. If you exit from that prompt or just leave the screen idle for about 10-15 seconds (I didn't count it) you'll be forced to enter passcode.
Why tf to use biometrics then?
- 99% of the time im not in a situation where i am being confronted by cops, but crossing a border or a traffic stop it is nice to know
You won't have the time or ability to do this when the police are involved. DON'T USE IT. It's not secure.

I wish there was a way to require both biometrics and PIN. They're both insecure on their own, but together they're better. Like instant MFA for your unlock. I would enable that immediately, if it was available.

Edit: then a password / passphrase in case one of the other two stops working (as an emergency unlock).

It’s sort of there, but maybe more to protect from criminals than abuses of authorities. All of my bank apps require a second authentication to launch or even to switch back to them.
Granted I could turn it that off or set it to biometrics, but I leave it on PINs. A criminal wanting to steal from my bank account will need both my biometrics to unlock my phone and a different PIN per bank.
This even provides some protection from the $5 wrench they’d use. Sure, I’ll unlock my phone at the threat of real violence. But you won’t know ahead of time what banking app I have or even how many, so you may not get them all. Pay by phone may use the same biometric but I can likely dispute those charges after the fact
In the abuse of authority scenario, that may keep them out of my bank records but there are established paths to get that from the bank so they’re less likely to be interested. I’m sure they’re more interested in violating the privacy of my friends and family
linux fun fact, im pretty sure you can just do this out of the box using PAM auth.
Gotta love android and IOS being utter dogshit.
- Wow, a generic "Linux good, anything else dogshit" comment.
  This is in no way relevant to the topic.
  This is like if someone posted that they couldn't get their car with the color they wanted and you saying "fuck you and your car, I can paint my living room in any color I want, right now it is striped burgundy and mint, aren't living rooms way better than cars?"
- With PAM you can do literal math captcha.
- Maybe. I don't biometrics on my computers. Only phone. I don't unlock my computer a thousand times a day using a crappy touch kb. Actually, if the phone had a physical kb, maybe it wouldn't have been so bad. Not sure.
- You claim so and yet have no example article, video, blog post, or any form of proof of it ever being done. Everything is possible in theory, even on iOS (with a jailbreak).

face based and fingerprint based unlocking schemes is a bad idea.

if you dead someone can still unlock your phone with your corpse

You are unable to care at that point though.
- Stealing from an dead person is still stealing.

This is why you ALWAYS use a pw/pin.

While it doesn't contradict what you're saying, apparently ”the provisions of his parole required him to surrender any electronic devices and passcodes." Wtf
- I'll keep telling them it is my 4th amendment right to get a warrant.

iOS users can press and hold the power and volume up button until the emergency call screen appears, then release. You now have to enter your PIN / Password to unlock again and not use TouchID / FaceID. Good luck trying to get me to tell you the code.

- Your comment and the one above should be shared widely these days. Everyone should know this.
- I can only count to three. 😔
Similarly, on Android there's an option in your lock screen settings along the lines of "Show lockdown option" that adds a lockdown button to the power/restart menu when holding the power button.
- Or you can press the power button for like 10 seconds, that should force a restart and android asks for password/pin/unlock pattern after restart or after 48 hours.
- iPhone SE also has that. It'll disable the fingerprint on next unlock if you hold the power button for 5 seconds or mash the power button repeatedly (like 5 times in 2 seconds, therabouts). Pretty handy to know these things not only for police but if you get mugged. Everyone should know how to lock their phone out
https://xkcd.com/538/

Do not use thumbprint Do not use facial recognition

No matter how desperate companies want you to.... Apple , looking at you

Just use a passcode. Passwords can't be forced from you by police. Judges are a different thing.

No judge can overrule an "I forgot the password"
- note that in the UK, yes they can. The offence is “failing to unlock the device.”
- Wasnt there a guy that was kept in prison for years because he "couldnt remember" his password?
No matter how desperate companies want you to.... Apple , looking at you
Are you implying there is some ulterior motive in phone manufacturers including fingerprint scanners? That Apple has them because they secretly want to make it easier for police to conduct phone searches? Because that's a very bold claim, and "because customers like the convenience" seems to me like a much simpler explanation.
- From experience, with facial scan or fingerprint scan available on Apple, 3rd party app require it. E.g. okta MFA login, for those with apple phones, using face scan can be forced. I know you are free to decline and free to quit the company requiring it, but just like any new data set, you soon won't be able to live without providing it.
  Remember when a social security number was introduced, gov promised it wouldn't be used as a identification number for any other purpose . Forward 50 years and now you can't do anything without it.

Doesn't it boil down to like what you know is safe, what you are can be used?

Like they can't make you give passwords, but biometrics are vulnerable.

Restart your phone beforehand so that it won't accept biometrics
- Both iOS and Android have Lockdown options, so that isn't even completely necessary, granted it will also work.
- Before the police pull you over?

What an outrageously evil and dystopian ruling.

Bending over backwards to find logic that lets cops ignore the Constitution.
If it's a search violation without biometrics then it's a search violation with biometrics. Next up they're going to rule that no matter how much you get recorded telling them you don't consent to a search, a search is legal as long as they can smash their way into your car.

This is Graphene OS had a distress code you can enter that will wipe the phone.

I wonder though, if you had that set up and the cops ask you for the code to unlock and you told them the code to wipe and they end up wiping the phone. Would they be able to charge you with evidence tampering?
- "Sorry, my distress pin is 1 digit off of my unlock pin, you probably fat fingered it by mistake. I guess we'll never know. You really need to be more careful."
- How would they know
- I’d expect so. You have the right to remain silent. You do not have the right to destroy evidence. How is wiping your phone any different from running around your house flushing things?

I think this would be different for someone not on parole. So like if you're just speeding and get pulled over I believe they would be violating the law/Constitution if they forced your thumb against your phone.

But they probably do it anyway so good idea to follow the lock down above in this thread.

(Also don't use electronics to do crimes y'all.)

Only one of the reason I will never use fingerprints. Go get a fucking warrant.
(Also don’t use electronics to do crimes y’all.)
What should we use, paper? Let me print out that new movie frame by frame
- Flipbook movies
Something you have can be forced...thumbprint or face scan. Something you know can't be forced
Never leave a paper trail. It's an outdated term now because it applies to emails and texts and everything else too.
Meet and talk in person. Pay with cash. Say nothing over email and phone that you wouldn't want someone spying on you to see.
- You don't have to tell me twice to not leave the basement. I love that place!

“Hey siri, whose phone is this?”

Interesting to see this one pop up again.

Steve Lehto did a good overview of this from a legal perspective

Especially the warrant argument. Dude was on parole, warrant would be an easy get instead of just being lazy.

I mean they can try.

Just enter the wrong password a few times

This is about biometrics, not passcodes.
- restart de phone, most of them will require the passcode at least once before enabling biometrics

I can't find a lockdown mode in MIUI.

One way to enforce the PIN unlock in MIUI if you have it with fingerprint unlock is to tap the fingerprint scanner five times with the wrong finger and it will ask for the PIN. After entering the PIN the fingerprint will work again.

I forgot my passcode.

What then?

They can only force you to use biometrics to open it, not a password.
- Noted!

Maybe make that tapping your finger on scanner will actually wipe device?

Jokes on them, my biometrics don't work most of the time and I have to enter my pin anyway.

can you set your phone to log into a different..desktop, for lack of a better term, if biometrics are used? while your main is hidden behind a passcode?

Use shelter or insular for a "work" profile.
You can have multiple users on android. Some plugin should be able to do such a thing.

AlternativeeEmergency PIN for deleting the Phone

Per the article, I wonder if they have to "mash" the thumb, or if they can simply press it? 🙄

This isn't new. This can also be compelled by the courts. If you want your phone secure, don't have one. If you want it to be expensive to open, use a long passcode, do NOT use fingerprint or face unlock.

whose* phone is this?
this does not work. i just tried it.