1y ago

Raw milk fans plan to drink up as experts warn of high levels of H5N1 virus

arstechnica.com

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1y ago

Raw-milk fans plan to drink up as experts warn of high levels of H5N1 virus

arstechnica.com /science/2024/05/anti-pasteurization-crowd-reaffirms-love-of-raw-milk-despite-bird-flu-outbreak/

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1y ago

Raw-milk fans plan to drink up as experts warn of high levels of H5N1 virus

arstechnica.com /science/2024/05/anti-pasteurization-crowd-reaffirms-love-of-raw-milk-despite-bird-flu-outbreak/

123 comments

The institute's founder, Mark McAfee, told the Los Angeles Times this weekend that his customers are, in fact, specifically requesting raw milk from H5N1-infected cows. According to McAfee, his customers believe, without evidence, that directly drinking high levels of the avian influenza virus will give them immunity to the deadly pathogen.
Looks like it’s going to be a fun flu season this year 🫠 Every day I feel more justified in my decision to relentlessly mask with an N95 every time I’m indoors in public.
- didn't cats already get the virus from drinking the raw milk? honestly at this point if only they wouldn't end up infecting a bunch of other likely non-retarded individuals, I'd be inclined to just let them kill themselves with this and pass on beleiving that they proved their point. More realistically, they will probably spread it and kill a bunch of other people that way then still act like they have uncovered some great fucking secret, while somehow being the only survivors of the incident.
  
  Muh freeeeeeeeeduuuuuuuuummmmmm
  (/s)
  
  didn’t cats already get the virus from drinking the raw milk?
  Yes and they had a very high mortality rate too!
  Edit: sauce
- this is a certified Darwin award moment
- Is he related to John, by any chance?
These raw milk fools never learn. Raw milk has always been dangerous. Now even more dangerous. Avoid raw milk.
- You say that like it's a way tuberculosis spreads.
  
  You say that like it's a way to get infections from Campylobacter, E. coli, Listeria, Salmonella, Brucella, and Cryptosporidium
- Avoid animal agriculture in general
  
  Commenters in here fully on board with advocating against raw milk because they don’t drink it.
  As soon as you advocate against something which is the source of many of our zoonotic diseases they downvote because they do not want to stop eating animals.
  People who would downvote the above comment: we see you like you see raw milk drinkers.
- Raw milk is safe to drink in the UK.
  
  Kinda, it's regulated because it can be so unsafe and even then you are kinda risking a bad time drinking raw milk. There is a reason we pasturise it.
The California-based Raw Milk Institute called the warnings "clearly fearmongering." The institute's founder, Mark McAfee, told the Los Angeles Times this weekend that his customers are, in fact, specifically requesting raw milk from H5N1-infected cows. According to McAfee, his customers believe, without evidence, that directly drinking high levels of the avian influenza virus will give them immunity to the deadly pathogen.
By all means, drink up, morons, get the hell out of our gene pool, we've got enough troubles without your Dimwit DNA.
- The problem is they infect the rest of us.
  
  Crazy. The zombie apocalypse started from people wanting to become infected.
- It’ll only be a matter of time until the virus mutates and successfully transmits from human to human.
  
  I'll still be safe. I don't generally drink human milk.
- The institute's founder, Mark McAfee, told the Los Angeles Times this weekend that his customers are, in fact, specifically requesting raw milk from H5N1-infected cows. According to McAfee, his customers believe, without evidence, that directly drinking high levels of the avian influenza virus will give them immunity to the deadly pathogen.
  It's like the "facemasks are causing COVID-19" thing.
- directly drinking high levels of the avian influenza virus will give them immunity to the deadly pathogen
  It's like homeopathy but even stupider
  
  To be fair to them, that is pretty close to how immunity actually works. Not quite there though.
- Well it will give immunity, to the ones that survive.
Is raw milk the new anti-vax?
- I know there are also conspiracy theories around pasteurization. Supposedly it doesn't work and you don't need it. Oh and viruses are a hoax. Or at least that's what my very self educated husband of my cousin believes.
  
  Can we just call this what it is as likely troll farm activity to sow discord in western society. I’m tired of it now being called out.
  
  "Viruses are a hoax" seems to have been growing ever since COVID. I never encountered it before that, now I've encountered it multiple times. There was a guy in the skeptic sub on Reddit who came in to argue like mad that viruses didn't exist.
- I’ve assumed for some time that that Venn diagram was nearly a circle.
- I always find it interesting that Americans are scared of raw foods. No raw milk, no carpaccio or tartare, raw pork is a no-no and raw seafood is an instant death. Really tells you that the food quality in the US is very low.
  
  Raw pork literally has a risk of brain worms. It's been in the news.
You know I used to think that would be great for all of these idiots to catch and die from whatever plagues they damn well like. But then I remembered that there are children in the world, And then also immuno-compromised people. Innocent people don't deserve to be the victims of mass stupidity, especially children. If you're stupid enough to do something terminal or life ruining, fine, just make sure that it doesn't impact anyone else. Go destroy yourself in private.
- It’s my hypothesis that a lot of stupid Trump voters exist because seatbelt laws prevented stupid people from killing their kids. Kids who inherited their parents stupidity and here we are today. Regarding stupid people killing their own kids thru their own stupidity, maybe we should take a Star Trek “no interference in primitive civilizations” stance.
  
  Oh, I know that "no interference" idea from Arthur Clarke, in "Songs of Distant Earth". This was shown in Star Trek ? I haven't watched yet
If we all have to endure another pandemic that will further worsen our overall health... we really do live in the dumbest timeline.
- I think I may have long COVID or something... I got COVID in November, recovered, then caught a cold in January and have been sick since. I just want to be healthy. Why do the stupidest among us have to fuck everything up?
  
  Good luck. Don't catch covid again if you can help it. Repeated exposure makes it worse. Pretty sure that's where I'm at. At least I've been up to date with vaccines or it could have been much worse, likely.
  
  You might simply be allergic. It's probably best to have it checked.
you know what i won't miss? these people.
- When someone catches it from drinking raw milk with the virus in it, it might affect other people too.
  What we really do not want to happen is for human-to-human transmission to start, and every time a human gets infected, it helps create a risk for a mutation that starts that going. We know that the virus is in the milk supply right now, so it's not just some distant hypothetical.
  If you remember, we had a lot of criticism for China over the role that wet markets with live animals might have played in starting the jump to humans on COVID-19. I'd rather not turn right around and have us be responsible for creating a window for a new pandemic due to doing something similar.
  
  Hey, it's a chance for the US to shine! The "US virus" have a nice ring to it, no?
  …no.
- I case we do decide to miss them, they’d going to try to leave us pandemic to remember them by.
- Probably how the raw milk sinkers think of themselves too. Super-powered, misunderstood, fighting an oppressive government, actually the hero.
  The reality? Bit-character, backwater hicks.
It's all milky fun and games with a side of creamy fat until someone gets a case of brucellosis.
- I'm kinda ashamed of this, but I used to prefer the raw milk from a local dairy farm because it comes with all the fat and cream(you have to shake it before drinking) and it tasted soo freaking good. They vaccinate their cows and only have about 8 of them.
  However, I will not be buying that anymore and go back to buying pasteurized all the time. The taste isn't worth risking h5n1. I know it's a pretty stupid thing to do since other illnesses can happen from raw milk, but I guess it's better late than never to stop doing that
  
  Dude, you were taking a calculated risk before, and the calculations have changed. Good on you for adapting to this very real threat to our collective well-being.
  
  Yeah you can totally get unhomogenized milk that is pasteurized. They sell one brand at my local grocery store. Look for some in your area.
  Edit: they would refer to it as cream top most likely.
  
  As Melisdrawing made clear, never feel bad about using new information to make a better decision.
  
  Milk is gross. You are an adult human not a baby cow. What a great time to break a weird habit.
Biden should tell everyone NOT to drink raw milk. Farmers will make tons of money and love him for it, and darwin will take over costing tRump votes. The end result will make for a better America.
- At this point Biden could summon a genie to grant everyone in America three wishes and people would still blame him for not giving them six wishes.
Can we just skip to producing a vaccine for this now? If they're that intent on giving it every possible chance to jump to humans, and we obviously can't stop them, let's at least try to contain it before we get Pandemic 2: Electric Boogaloo.
- We have made H5N1 avian flu vaccines many times before. We have one developed as recently as 2020 that's been approved by the FDA for use in humans, not sure how great it is against the current incarnation though. Flu is quite good at evading vaccines, hence the need for frequent updates.
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/H5N1_vaccine
  The US government funds vaccine development for viruses that might become a problem at some point. There's also work into expanding rna vaccine technology, which can allow for very quick updates as viruses change. We need way more work and funding on pandemic prep and surveillance. We've all seen how devestating a global pandemic can be. Even if the vast majority developed never end up needing use, one of them may save millions of lives.
  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/vaccine-makers-are-preparing-for-bird-flu/
  Anyways, if an H5N1 pandemic started tomorrow, there's a vaccine that would probably be helpful already made. Would need to be scaled up massively in production of course though.
Shocked Pikachu in 3…2…1…
SHOTS SHOTS SHOTS!
Just like covid they believe theyre immune
Darwin: Survival of the fittest.
God: Solved /S
- No, these fucking morons will get infected and then infect US with this shit. It's not OK that they're being morons because they will kill innocent people because of it.
  
  As is tradition.
  Fucking Morons
If they are wearing maga hats I am going to look the other way.
Covid got a lot of the really dumb ones. Raw milk will get the annoying hippies.
- Anyone who doesn't believe and follow science, will die of reality.
Well, they tried to warn them.
More room for us if they can't follow suggested instructions.
- The problem is that idiots drinking H5N1 milk might bring about human-to-human transmission of it which will be a dire situation. To date, around 50% of the 200-something human cases resulted in death. For comparison, the worst mortality rates of covid were around 20-25% in the very beginning.
Weird. My plantbased milk never made me sick.
- And milk hasn't made me sick. But clearly people get sick drinking milk, and people get sick drinking plant milk. Mold, botulism, Listeria, Salmonella...
  What's my point? That you don't really have a point.
I'm going to play scientist here and not knee-jeek call these people names. Is there actually any evidence of viable viral transmission in raw cow's milk? The expression and transmission of viruses in human breast milk is an extremely complex subject. Antibodies are often expressed in breast milk, and active viruses are only sometimes expressed, with highly variable infection rates among infants based on the type of virus. So my genuine question: What evidence is there supporting this warning not to drink raw milk for fear of H5N1 transmission?
- This is what the FDA says
  Raw Milk/Cheese Concerns
  **Are there concerns about HPAI and raw, unpasteurized milk? **
  Based on the limited research and information available, we do not know at this time if HPAI A (H5N1) viruses can be transmitted through consumption of unpasteurized (raw) milk and products (such as cheese) made from raw milk from infected cows. However, we have long known that raw milk can harbor dangerous microorganisms (germs) that can pose serious health risks to consumers. According to the CDC, from 1998 through 2018, there were 202 outbreaks linked to drinking raw milk, resulting in 2,645 illnesses and 228 hospitalizations. These outbreaks have typically been caused by the presence of bacteria such as Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, E. coli, Salmonella, or Listeria monocytogenes in the raw milk. For more information about how consumers can protect themselves from these risks see our website: Raw Milk.
  
  Weren't there cats showing signs of infection from drinking the milk like blindness and what not?
  
  The possibility of bacterial growth in unpasteurized milk is without question, but this clearly states there is no known evidence that flu virus can be passed through raw milk. So why are there official warnings being issued about this? I want to be clear I don't think drinking raw milk is a good idea, but I also want the public to trust our institutions, and putting out a warning based on zero evidence doesn't foster trust
- Well, they detected destroyed versions of the virus in pasteurized milk, so unless something else destroyed them before the pastuerization would have done so, there is a chance raw milk would have live virus in it. But it is certainly possible something else was responsible for destroying it before it got into the milk. I sure wouldn't take the chance myself, it's already a pretty bad idea to drink raw milk without this added.

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Raw Milk/Cheese Concerns