Biden really, really doesn’t want China to flood the US with cheap EVs

I would mind less if the American auto industry was producing affordable lightweight EVs...
- Or cars with any level of quality.
  
  Hey man the Toyota I drive was made in the USA, it's great.
- Best we can do is a four ton truck.
- To that end, this means we would need to lower standards, use some forced labor, and increase taxes to increase subsidies in order to compete.
  Republicans would shoot down the subsidies.
  
  No it literally wouldn't. It's absolutely possible to produce smaller lightweight vehicles with the exact same standards. But unfortunately we've all been pushed towards larger vehicles. Simply because they make more money on them.
  
  Just producing EV versions of Honda Fit or Ford Fiesta like what the Chinese EV makers do is enough. Instead, they keep producing EVs with luxury features (and high price tags) then surprised people won't buy them without subsidy.
  
  We already use slave labor in the guise of prisoners. How low do we need to go?
- ...that go straight into the landfill?
  
  No, I'd prefer they get used. What an odd question.

Then China shouldn’t subsidize its manufacturers’ exports while increasing the burden for foreign companies to compete internally. If anyone thinks China cornering the global EV market is a good long term plan, they are naive.
- But I really wanted to die driving the suda sa01 ev which boasts features such as; zero crash ratings standards, and no air bags.
  
  Stop whining and enjoy dying from obesity related complications and Healthcare bankruptcy like the rest of us.
- The US subsidizes american car companies too. Pot calling the kettle and all.
  
  We subsidize exports? Show me.
- I don't see how they're going to pass the safety regulations here and in the EU. A ton of their ICE vehicles never made it here because they're dangerously designed and built.
  
  The Volvo EX30 is based on a Geely platform, made in China, and does well in the EU (won several Car of the Year awards).
  MG (SAIC/Roewe) also has no trouble selling in the EU.
  Chinese manufacturers can make regulatory-conforming cars when the market demands it of them. If the market wants cheap and doesn't demand safety, they can do that too.
  
  They're already selling in Europe. To good reviews.
- So you admit the cars are better and cheaper?
- China charges nearly double for its EVs outside of the Chinese market. They tend to do what most companies do, charge the highest price that people will still pay. China domestically is the most competitive market in the world, so they have $10,000 high quality EVs, but they don’t have to do that elsewhere and so they don’t.

China is becoming an increasingly unreliable trade partner. Preventing them from completely taking over a segment is prudent.
- Yes, but there's already a steep tariff, it would be nice to let them light a small fire under the us automakers so they make better products for us, instead were kinda just letting them be evil and lazy.
  
  But they don't want to make better products for you. They want China to make products for you that they slap their badge on and sell you at an enormous mark-up.
- It is prudent for those that own the means of production.
  
  German industry is/was in shambles as they allowed an unreliable trade partner, Russia, to completely take over a segment in the German economy (oil & gas). When that unreliable trade partner pulled the rug in 2022, suddenly Germany is paying out the ass for LNG, reducing factory output, even on-lining coal plants to keep the lights on.
  It is simply a bad idea to allow an unreliable trade partner to completely take over a segment in your economy.

"We want expensive American EVs that most people can't afford, not cheap Chinese ones....."
- China is subsidizing EV production and selling cars below cost. Allowing them to be sold in the US would kill the domestic EV market. How is that better for Americans?
  
  wasn't that the whole point of capitalism anyways? /s
  
  Americans get cheaper EVs and the legacy auto industry gets taught a valuable lesson as companies who refused to modernize go bankrupt.
  
  They aren't exporting them below cost, that's why they want to export. Inside China every company tried to start an EV division because they heard Apple was doing it and assumed it must be a good idea. Now the market is topped out and the biggest companies are trying to price the smaller ones out of business (which still isn't below manufacturing cost because China regulates that and is nervous about having tons of cars from bankrupt companies on the road). They export with a huge profit margin to make up for the domestic price war.
  
  Also by claiming "developing nation", which is up to the nation to decide for themselves instead of having someone else decide for them, the planet's second largest economy gets to claim WTO rules that the recipient (country) pays delivery. That's why you can buy something from China for $1.50 and yet it costs $150 to send it back if it doesn't work.
  
  Well, they're actually heavily subsidizing steel and aluminium, which are coincidentally what these Tariffs are for. It was never about EVs specifically.
- He actually doesn't talk about EVs at all, this tariff is against cheep steel and aluminium that the CCP is subsidizing.

With how china keeps implanting everything with spyware, I agree to keep them away from the heavy tech incorporated cars. Really wish we could transition away from using chinese shit
- All auto manufacturers put spyware in their cars now. This isn't a china problem, this is an everyone problem. We need anti-spyware laws that apply to everyone.
  
  I agree, but in the meantime lets not make it that easy...
  
  Rip all the computer shit out of your car and slap a carburetor on it, problem solved.
- The Tariff is actually against Steel and Aluminium heavily subsidized by the CCP and flooding the market. At no point in Biden's speech did he talk about EVs or electronics.
- Oh? More spyware than GM selling your data to your insurance company? More spyware than all of the stuff your smartphone collects?
  It's absolutely a bad faith argument to say we can't have Chinese cars because they conduct industry standard data scraping.
  
  The whataboutism doesn’t help. It’s a wrong practice regardless of nationality. But since the house and senate is bought by the corporations, at the very least ban those who you can.

Make them in Mexico. Less reliance on one country is better for everyone.
- They’re trying to block mexican made Chinese vehicles as well. They don’t want Americans buying cheap evs.
  
  No, they don't want the profits getting funneled off to China.
  
  The tariffs are for Steel and Aluminium, intentionally shifting the discussion to EVs is disingenuous, just like the article.
- Make them in USA.
  
  This makes the most sense. Sell them here. Built elsewhere? Tax the shit out of them. You can avoid the tax by creating American jobs and having them manufactured here.
  
  Make them on the moon!
  
  They don't want them to, they want you to keep using gas.

Obligatory fuck cars
- What’s the problem with EVs?
  
  It partially fixes a single problem of the many caused by car-dependency and car-centric infrastructure
  
  They partially solve the fuel and the bad air problems. In exchange they damage roads way more (I recall reading that the damage is proportional to the vehicle weight to the fourth power, probably with some more nuance) and that also creates substantially more rubber micro particle pollution. They also happen to be more dangerous in the event of a crash. Plus the additional challenges with grid load, which some people dismiss with silly ideas like having said cars act like load balancers (that would be a mess to scale).
  In most cases, EVs are not a solution to mobility, they are a solution to save the car industry from real solutions to climate change, namely spamming trams, trains and buses (in sparse locations) all over the place.
  
  EVs are a step in the right direction.
  However, EVs only change one aspect of cars: How they go vroom vroom.
  They are still heavy metal boxes operated by random people. Most drivers suck (myself included probably), they are lazy and don't follow the local law on driving.
  They are absurdly dangerous, for people inside other cars, themselves, and pedestrian. Anytime someone goes too early with their car it's potentially an accident with death causes. Same if they spin their funny wheel a little too much.
  Imagine yourself overtaking a car on the highway. Now let's say the driver slips by accident, wheel stairs to your sidey giant death machine crashes yours from the side, and its a horrible accident.
  Besides that, car infrastructure is absurdly expensive, and becomes even more expensive Everytime it needs to be renewed. The city I was at school at is literally one of the poorest in my country after having endless money in the 70s, because they built too many roads. They built some roads not on the ground but in large pillars, and it's literally falling apart.
  Lastly, cars take up tons of public space. Cities designed (or rather bulldozed for) cars sprawl, need huge parking lots, huge streets, produce noise pollution, regular pollution.
  There is much more but that should suffice for now.
  That being said, I doubt we can ever go truly car free. Remote regions do not have enough people for good public transit to be maintainable, and the distances are often too long for walking or biking. Deliveries need some kind of individual vehicle. Some of that can be addressed with EVs and car sharing.
  Sadly, EVs are being presented as the all around solution.
- Go ahead and walk, no one is stopping you.
  
  Ironically, cars are stopping me. Roads used to be for walking, and now they’re for cars. They gave us sidewalks and now some places don’t have them, and are unwalkable. The bike lanes either don’t exist or are too dangerous to use. It’s all roads and stroads now, with speed limits dangerous to pedestrians, and large SUVs meaning that car crashes with a pedestrian are more likely to end in death.
  The amount of people in cars has also crippled public transportation. Buses aren’t quick, and there are so few of them in general. Not to mention the lack of high speed trains, and the inefficiency of our subways.
  Giant parking lots with no cars took our parks. Took our public spaces. Took our nature. And they’re everywhere. Everywhere I look is dull, grey asphalt.
  It’s depressing to be outside. And where would I walk to? Everything is too far away to walk to. It used to be a 5-15 minute walk away. Now it’s more like 40 minutes to hours...
  I’m tired of human interests and public transportation being overlooked so that people can drive a couple minutes faster to their destination. When people in Europe, Japan, and China can just… get on a train.
  Sorry for the rant but I hate this bs
  
  I literally do that to go to work and university. I walk to my local train station 20 minutes and it's amazing that I can. It makes me wake up, even as someone who hates to get up early and gives me time to listen to music, podcasts or think about personal stuff.
  That being said, it's not true that no one is stopping me. All those idiots that park in the sidewalk are stopping me. All those idiots that endanger me with their crappy super heavy metal boxes are stopping me. I literally have to stop when I want to cross the road.
  And besides that, walking is only possible if you don't live in a car infested hellscape (luckily I do for the most part). Otherwise, the next destination is hours away by walking, rendering it pointless, and walking becomes very dangerous.

Anti China Republicans are going to HATE this! They would MUCH rather Elect the man whose Daughter got over 70 patents FASTTRACKED in China once he was elected!
- They would just put their hands on their ears and repeat "Hunter Biden laptop" until a scary fact like that one goes away.

Something something free market
- Might be a valid argument if China didn't play currency games.
  Also, the protectionist in me wants American heavy industry to continue to exist.
  
  Imagine believing that China is the only country playing "currency games".
  It's all just imaginary numbers based on printed paper.
  
  I want American heavy industry to be good enough to continue to exist. Otherwise we're just a house of cards waiting for a stiff wind.
- Hey, capitalism is only good when it makes the rich richer...
  
  China flooding the market with cheap EVs still makes the rich richer... Just different rich people in a different country.
- The free market is propaganda to trick people into thinking capitalism is somehow ethically solvent.

Isn't it a national security risk?
- Then he should solve the issue by requiring the code to be hosted on American servers with source code inspection.
  Not by making EVs unaffordable.
  
  Novel idea: make a car, not a cloud service. My phone is better at navigation etc anyways.
  
  "source code inspection."
  Great idea. That way it can be put on pause indefinatly because that shit takes years.
  On top of it. You can NEVER be certain anyway because there's code burnt into the chips that you cannot read.
- Yes a big risk. Both natsec and IP theft are major concerns and cars are fully mic'd, compromisable, and to top it off, plug directly into your phone.
- Then he should solve the issue by requiring the code to be hosted on American servers with source code inspection.
  Not by making them unaffordable.
  
  Because no car company would ever lie about the software there cars are running or go to extreme measures to hide that its not what it claims to be when being tested.
- Do you have a phone in your pocket?
  If you do then congratulations. All of the data your car would collect is already out there for sale to the CCP.
  If you're talking about people who have high level sensitive conversations in cars, then yes. But that's an incredibly small group and they have those conversations in government vehicles that are all made in the US.
  
  Just because I already was backdoored without a lube by person A, doesn't mean I'd love to be backdoored again by person B.
  
  Yes, it runs grapheneos.
  Irrelevant.
  I'm talking about the mass deployment of spying devices across an entire country mapping every street running facial recognition collecting military related data. The idiot who buys the var who cares its everyone else.

If only he could extend that rationale to every industry
- Actually, he's announced increasing the existing tariffs against Chinese Steel and Aluminium. He didn't even talk about EVs at all.
  
  How about PRC-manufactured electronics at large?
  
  Are we really going to do this today?
  From the article at the top of the page.
  According to The Wall Street Journal, the Biden administration will announce plans to roughly quadruple tariffs, to 100 percent from the current 25 percent, as well as tack on an additional 2.5 percent duty.

Protectionism only works in the VERY short term. If the USA doesn't pull its finger out of its ass and make affordable good EVs, then its automotive industry will crash and burn. Because the rest of the world unaffected by tariffs will be buying Chinese (or Korean / European) EVs and not American ones because they'll be expensive and suck.
- I am genuinely curious if CCP subsidizing cheap steel and aluminium on the global market can be sustained and for how long. If they control output then they've probably got the land resources and authority to keep it up for decades, right? Somebody should do a study on this.

they really willing to throw the planet under the bus so they can protect their own oligarchs. so much for the free market.

Did he forget to sell his Tesla shares in time?

Chinese EVs are piece of shit death-traps anyway that tend to explode for no reason.

The US doesn't control the supply chains. Biden subsidizes EVs as well. US labor is too expensive and the resale value of EVs are very poor. If there is a country that can make EVs cheap enough, it is China. The EU and US stand no chance. Even with safety standards and 27% tariffs, Chinese cars are still cheaper, and the quality is good. US currency is artificially too high. US traded in their manufacturing for financialization. This is a case where Joe Biden can't beat the global market, with the rest of the world buying China. American EVs are a flop.
- It's not US labor that is the most costly, it's US executives and c-suites

I do t want the Chinese EVs because there falling apart exploding crushing more exploding and.there just not safe
Edit:Sorry about this I get political when I don't sleep sorry about this
- Ma'am, do you want me to call 911? you're exhibiting signs of a stroke.
  
  Sorry I get political when I don't sleep sorry about that
- I’m interested in seeing the statistics for this, as I’m looking at a new ev and it would be nice to see.
  Because you wouldn’t just make something up would you, you must have the figures to substantiate your claim.
  
  Anecdotally cheap Chinese EVs are all over Costa Rica and even there they’re generally known to be garbage. Like how do you get a fairly car rusty in Costa Rica? Even if you live exclusively on the beach you’d have to have some really bad paint and 0 rust prevention done.
- Contrary to teslas that don't explode and don't rust. BYD is dominating with affordable EVs while other countries keep prices astronomically high.
- But Elong Musk’s shiny acute angle isn’t? You’re a fucking idiot.
- No need to apologize when it's true.

Translation: Biden doesn't want fire hazards that take hours and hundreds of gallons to extinguish imported from china.
- As opposed to US built fire hazards using the same batteries?
  
  Clearly that's America smoke, which is far superior.