Tinder to ban web developers who use 'engineer' in their bio
Tinder to ban web developers who use 'engineer' in their bio
www.theolognion.com
Tinder to ban web developers who use 'engineer' in their bio
187 comments
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This is a new satire site, right? These days it's getting harder and harder to differentiate between reality and fiction in tech. The rest of their posts are pretty much spot on.
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The name of the website is a play on the satire website the onion, it's satire.
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Thanks, I didn't even notice. It's not a normal decision that would be made, but sometimes there's weird stuff buried deep in the paperwork.
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It's sort of based in reality. In general most software jobs are closer to technician work than engineering these days. However, there definitely are lots of software jobs which do qualify as engineering.
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I don't take any article post or comment seriously anymore. Between the era of misinformation and advancements in AI, my trust in the internet is at an all time low.
Make your own decisions, second guess everything
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Funny enough, I probably did more software engineering as a web dev than I did as a software engineer at some companies.
In the UK, at least, the only difference typically between a web developer and a software engineer is £15-20k in salary. Frankly, we're all software engineers...
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What are dev/engineer salaries like in the UK? Been considering places to move to...
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About half of the equivalent in the US, often less. It's exceedingly rare to make 100k here even in a senior position, although it does exist. Median is 40-50k (pounds, so times that by 1.2 for USD).
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Varies heavily dependent on industry, but typically less than US devs. Also if you live outside London it's going to be a lot less.
You average non-junior dev will probably make about 50-60k £ in london but about 25-35k £ outside london.
Senior developer can vary heavily. in london I've seen 60-120k depending on language and industry.
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I still wouldn't say software engineering is actual engineering.
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You mean you wouldn't expect a software engineer to understand the coefficient of thermal expansion of tungsten carbide in a gas lubricated piston/cylinder pneumatic deadweight calibration system?
Yeah, me either. But I would expect one to know how to research the documentation to find out what it meant.
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And software development isn't actually development. They don't build houses!
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I think the idea is, most people could build a doghouse with no training, but you need planning and education to plan/build a skyscraper. If you want to write your own app at home, maybe no software planning is really required. Keep nailing in workarounds. But if you want to build a huge system, you need to do a bit more than workarounds. You need a good plan from the start to make it all efficient and in a manner others can contribute to the code base.
That said, I feel like just having workarounds is really common even in large industry settings. Maybe I'm wrong though. I'm more of a home doghouse builder type myself.
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Why? Excited to hear another internet hot take
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The only real software engineer anymore is Linus Torvalds, everyone else stands on the shoulders of giants.
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they should also ban web developers who refer to themselves as ninjas, especially code ninjas
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Ah yes, I've spent decades cringing when I meet a self-proclaimed or even peer-proclaimed "rockstar", "ninja", "guru", "jedi", or probably a half dozen other "cool" designations for a tech worker.
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rockstar
We fixed that one: https://codewithrockstar.com/
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What if you do it ironically? Like calling yourself a Code Ninja Jedi 10x Rockstar 🚀?
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Bullshit. This started long ago. We're deep in the midst of it now.
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Ninjas, super-heroes, black-belt and terms like that are known gender-excluders. I’ve been through a couple of adjustment sessions for company standard job descriptions and it’s unreal how you can change the applicant mix by wording.
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I have a CS Masters degree and it says engineer on it.
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There is a difference between Computer Science and >!web development!< though.
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"web development" casts a wide net.
The classic imagery of someone playing with frontpage back in the day, or screwing around with html in a text editor, sure. But those folks wouldn't call themselves web developers (there was a phase over 20 years ago where anyone that cobbled together a geocities would declare 'web developer' on their resume, but I haven't seen someone do that in ages).
However, you can get in pretty deep with code running in the browser as javascript and/or wasm. Backend gives them some nested dictionary in json or protobuf and they parse, manipulate, iterate over it, sometimes making some pretty complex visualizations. Basically a 'web developer' is nowadays on par with any Game or GUI application developer in terms of what they might be writing. There are a few things left out of direct reach by a browser runtime, but you have access to plenty and the backend abstractions to get something in reach of HTTP are often no easier than the thing being abstracted, it's just reframed as 'http'.
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There really isn't. For example web browsers can execute assembly now and a good "web developer" (I'd call them a software engineer) will use assembly where appropriate.
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Do you even know why you hate PHP?
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For me, it was this
https://www.php.net/manual/en/function.mysql-real-escape-string.php
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I'm a full-stack web developer and am involved all the way through including cloud infrastructure, API development, database creation/maintenance, test automation, architecture etc.
I guess what makes a "developer" in your context different? Embedded? Kernel?
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Just like my
$variablesI can be anything I want. Deal with it! 🫳🎤 -
To be fair, we do develop stuff. Nothing implies quality, so it’s not like we’re misrepresenting anything. Personally, anyone who calls themselves a software engineer and works with any web-related technology (PHP, JavaScript, etc) are the ones to be shunned.
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🖕
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I mean who cares? But also why? My old job title was "software engineer" and I just did web dev.
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it's satire
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Honestly, nobody should call themselves an engineer unless they literally drive trains for a living.
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Infrastructure erasure in the states is so bad that people who build it for a living aren't even considered anymore.
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Funny and infromative
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In many countries the term “engineer” is a protected title.
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Yes, driving trains is becoming more and more important as we find out how terrible cars are for the environment. We should protect the profession fiercely!
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Or they build trebuchets
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I mean, engineering is really problem solving, and not do we web developers solve problems. We may have made most of them ourselves, and new ones when we solve those, but we do solve problems.
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The term engineering is not about problem-solving, especially when differentiated from development. Engineering is about deliberate understanding and decision-making, about giving it an architecture, a structure.
You can develop without any structure, solving an issue, without understanding a bigger context or picture or behavior. But that's not engineering.
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Engineering is the use of scientific knowledge to achieve specific goals.
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As long as they don't start building tunnels under their house because they're an 'engineer'...
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Nobody give them stamps!
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🎶 ... trust me, Im an engineer I think I put this thing right here ... 🎶
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As a non-software engineer, feels weird that they're making this distinction.
I don't have much to do with engines either.
I take engineer to mean: designs stuff that does some task, involving SOME kind of calculation.
Visual designer: not an engineer
Piping designer: not an engineer (although this one felt weird, that's what the piping designer corrected me to say, so)
Chemical engineer: ya
Mechanical engineer: yeah
Software engineer: totally different flavour, but still yeah
Language is what we want it to be.
Web designers presumably still need to script things, I reckon that counts 👍
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I get this is satire but people truly believe this. Web devs literally create software that runs nearly every facet of modern life.
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Now this is the kind of 'news' I'd like to see posted on hackernews just to read their techbro shit takes.
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I perused the comments and didn't see anyone mention this. The term "engineer" is regulated by every state in the US. I doubt they had Tinder in mind, but calling yourself an "engineer" without having a Professional Engineer license is illegal, at least when it comes to offering professional engineering services. It's a protected title so that schools and bridges don't get built by scammers--at least that was the intention. I can legally call myself an Engineer!
Just go get your license, and you should be golden lol.
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@LinearArray Deleted Tinder around a week ago.
It used to be really good back in 2012-2014 but not anymore I think.
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It was good... when dating apps were considered socially taboo lol.
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@TankovayaDiviziya
True haha. But also the the algorithm was better. When Tinder needed to cash in for the investors the quality dropped because then the focus became about making money more than it's about satisfying the users. We have to remember that if you get a match which gets into a relationship, Tinder loses two customers.
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Try fetlife
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@ILikeBoobies
Interesting 😄 -
Try Grindr
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So you continued to use it for 10 years before deleting it, or you just got on and the hype didn't live up to expectations?
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@Tikiporch
I used it until around a week ago.It was just a habit when I was single and then a week ago I finally evaluated that habit and realized that the quality had actually dropped in 2017 when I got back onto the app after a 3 years long relationship.
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What if my job title says that? Who's going to tell my employer they're wrong.
Then again, "full stack software engineer" as a title might also well just be buzzwords.
!And yes, I know the site is satire lol.!<
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Unless you know what “full stack” means.
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I liken a software engineer to someone like an architect. Architects will spend countless hours doing research, sketching out designs, creating documentation and presentations, and maybe even building to-scale models. But one thing they don’t do is actually build their designs. The constructions workers do that. And in the case of software (be it web or otherwise), those people are the developers.
Now, there are exceptions to every rule. I acknowledge that - especially in computing - it’s possible to blur lines. But I still feel there many more developers than there are real software engineers.
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But architects aren't engineers either! We have engineers in building construction, they are called engineers.
They ensure all required calculations are done, all safety standards are adhered to, they complete detailed designs, and they sign off on a project legally so things like quotes and timelines have legal teeth.
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I haven’t met an “engineer” who isn’t developing code. This is such a weird distinction. The people asking for a design are the customer, the high level design handled by the product manager, the nitty gritty is handled by the software engineers. Some businesses may make a distinction for payroll purposes but there is no prevailing standard.
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While backend- and other types of software developers seem to be unaffected
What if you write backend code for web application?
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And this why i aim to get a PhD.
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So you can get banned from Tinder for impersonating a doctor?
(I too have a PhD. I feel your pain)
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I just want to get a PhD so I can start my mad science career on the right foot.
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A player hater’s degree? Oh hell yeah!
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What if they are actually a software engineer, with a cert? >_>;
I have worked with actual cert'd engineers on web projects, lol
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with a cert
Engineering isn't usually a cert. It's a degree. I have a Bachelor of Engineering, majoring in Software Engineering. There's probably a cert level qualification in software development, and frankly it's probably just as good at producing effective software developers as an engineering degree, but it would be misleading, if you claim that only those with some particular qualification can call themselves engineers, for the qualification to be a cert.
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In Canada the Cert and the Degree are separate.
You typically through getting your degree also become certified, but the key is while your degree lasts forever, the Cert has to be maintained and renewed.
Cert has a lifetime and expires and you have to keep it up to date.
In Alberta for example the regulatory authority is APEGA: https://alis.alberta.ca/occinfo/certifications-in-alberta/engineer/
I think even technically the license is also a separate piece of paperwork.
Degree: you completed school at some point
Cert: up to date on current practices, must be maintained, requires the degree
License: you are legally allowed to practice in the province/country and have registered. Requires degree+cert
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It's a license issued by the state. As in, "you could go to jail for practicing engineering without a license."
(Source: was on track to become a licensed civil engineer until I decided to do software "engineering" instead.)
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This is not a new kind of policy for Tinder. In the past, PhDs in Social Sciences were banned for impersonating 'doctors'.
How were they impersonating doctors? How does Tinder verify any of these claims?
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First of all, it's a pretty obvious joke.
In this case, the joke is: "people with a PhD are doctors. It's a doctorate. But the field of social sciences is not real science, and thus shouldn't count as a doctorate."
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187 comments