Muslim Americans in swing states launch anti-Biden campaign
Just a moment...
"We recognize that, in the next four years, our decision may cause us to have an even more difficult time. But we believe that this will give us a chance to recalibrate, and the Democrats will have to consider whether they want our votes or not."
That's gotta be one of the strangest reasonings I've heard in a while.
The guy running against Biden has far worse policies with regard to Muslims. If that guy wins it "proves" America wants the worse policies, potentially causing Democrats to switch to those policies to try to win.
Luckily, this is a publicity stunt that I don't foresee changing any actual votes.
Who are Zionists actually voting for? If it's not the Democratic party, then why would he continue to be pro-Israel? Whom is he pandering to with that stance?
for "America wants" language, that doesn't mean anything. Different people have different goals.
Sure, it's shorthand, but the idea is that the Democratic Party might nominate a presidential candidate who has harsher views about Muslims and Palestine, if they see those views being the reason they lost, or among the reasons they lost.
They would see that they had the "better" policies and still didn't get the votes from the people who care most passionately about them, so their approach did not work. Maybe they go closer to the protesters view to try to get their votes, or maybe they give up on the protesters as a voting bloc since they couldn't even get their vote when they had the "better" policies. That would entail going further away from the protesters views.
Either could happen, I don't know the polling, but my point is that it isn't just "we will take 4 years of Trump to make our point and make Democrats listen," they may be taking 4 years of Trump and then proving that no one should align their policy views with theirs going forward because it hurts more than it helps.
Rationally, you have a valid point.
But I can totally understand people who can't bring themselves to vote for someone actively supporting a genocide. Something that Trump didn't do during his tenure in office.
Lesser of two evils only works when the distinction is clear to everyone.
Biden needs to separate himself from Israeli genocidal politics, and it seems his cabinet is trying to shift.
So in conclusion, you might consider this a publicity stunt. And maybe it is. But recent elections have shown that you can't ignore your base, you need to fire them up to really turn them out.
So this is definitely a good move.
But I can totally understand people who can't bring themselves to vote for someone actively supporting a genocide. Something that Trump didn't do during his tenure in office.
Trump provided military assistance, approved arms sales, and personally vetoed a bill to end US military assistance to the Saudis in Yemen which is considered a genocide as well.
And his Israel "peace plan" was literally just giving the Israelis everything they wanted so if you're giving him credit for Israel/Palestine actions you're literally just giving him credit for not being the president when this happened. He absolutely would have been worse for Palestinians, he just didn't have the power at the time.
But I can totally understand people who can’t bring themselves to vote for someone actively supporting a genocide. Something that Trump didn’t do during his tenure in office.
Trump was trying to oppress them personally. Maybe sympathy for those suffering a genocide is more important to them than their own safety, but maybe it shouldn't be.
Also, do you really think Trump wouldn't support Israel killing every last Palestinian they could?
...and the American base never fails to show its sheer, utter stupidity.
Didn't Trump have a travel ban on Muslims at one point?
Edit: yep, he did
that was like the first thing he did
They responded to this unoriginal take in TV interviews a while ago.
What did they say?
If they succeed in electing Trump, Democrats won't need to reflect about anything because they won't be allowed to run for office anymore.
But the Anti-Biden folks will be able to tell the next generation that they "stood up for their own ideals!" Sure, they won't have prevented any genocide, and they will have put the party into power that is currently trying to set up a fascist theocracy, but they can go to sleep knowing they have personal integrity!
/s
The other side of this being someone saying "we're not going to legislate anything that will help you, and fuck you for asking, but vote for us because we won't actively genocide you" which is not really a great selling point but yeah at least we're avoiding the worse stuff.
It's a bit ironic that it's always "Vote for Democrats or democracy dies" when that setup is inherently undemocratic, since your vote can't go anywhere but the single choice that lets you still have a vote
This is exactly what I thought when I read that. What kind of "recalibrating" do they think they're going to get to do with a christian fascist lording over the country?
I can't help but have conspiracy theory thoughts, like this is some kind of conservative campaign. It's hard to rule anything out anymore, and the idea of muslims voting for trump is just that fucking stupid.
Or you could actually hear them out rather than discredit them. Biden is killing their families in mass right now. You want them to think about how Trump might hurt them later? Which is actually happening now? Does making Biden think he will win encourage him to stop participating in the war crimes that he’s being referred to the ICC for?
If Democrats don't try to get them back, they won't get them back.
Idiots.
If you’re one election cycle away from collapse, you’re already dead.
Ah, yes, "recalibrate" to a dictatorship. Republicans LOVE muslims!
Trump will "recalibrate" their citizenship and country of residency. These dudes need to wake up
They must want to completely lose Democracy because they aren't getting their way. That's what's in the ballot. There very likely won't BE 2028 election if Rump gets back in.
If democracy isn't working for them, why would they vote for it? Remember, they just voted with Republicans to censure Rashida Tlaib over nothing too, and then there's all the other stuff like student loans, the child tax credit, gaslighting people about how well the economy is going, etc.
Generally voting for democrats on the federal level just means halting or slowing down the inevitable ratchet towards fashism, not actually improving things, because there always a Lieberman or a Manchin ready to sink anything that would be too lefty.
If democracy isn't working for them, why would they vote for it?
Because it can get worse. This seems obvious.
Generally voting for democrats on the federal level just means halting or slowing down the inevitable ratchet towards fashism
Is it an inevitable turn towards fascism, or is it people refusing to vote against fascism because Democrats don't "inspire" them?
then there's all the other stuff like student loans, the child tax credit
I see someone isn't following what is happening or how this works. The President, leader of the Dems, changed federal policy to forgive student loans (or at least a big chunk of them for a big chunk of the population) and it got struck down by the Supreme Court thanks to the other party. The Dems passed the child tax credit and then couldn't get it through the house to renew it because of the other party.
Generally voting for democrats on the federal level just means halting or slowing down the inevitable ratchet towards fashism, not actually improving things
Let's say that's true, it's objectively not but let's pretend it is. Isn't that still the obviously better option? How the fuck is fascism today better than fascism tomorrow?
Then we don't fucking deserve it or it will be time to refresh the tree of liberty. When disenfranchised people tell you that they don't see a difference, ask why. These folk have lost family members and are telling you that, from their perspective the only difference between having a R and a D in the White House is whether you show up to protest too.
“Refresh the Tree of Liberty”.. that’s some bullshit, Trump gets into office and he’ll chop that tree down himself. Then deport all the Muslims he can. Voting R is the literal version of “chop your nose off to spite your face”.
If they can’t see a difference between having legal abortions and not, they’re fucking idiots.
If you look at Democrats and Republicans and see no difference, you may want to ask yourself why a Trump presidency would be the same for you as a Biden presidency. There aren't a whole lot of non white working class Americans who can say that.
It's notable that the Republicans have not attempted to court the pro Palestinian voters in reaction to the anger at Biden. Because they are if anything more pro Israel / anti Palestine than the Democrats.
I agree that the Dems are the "only slightly better" party in a few aspects, and they need to do better. But slightly better is still better than the alternative and we need to vote like it.
I use a taxi analogy often when it comes to issues like this. You're on 8th Street and want to get to 1st Street. There are two taxis in front of you a Blue Taxi and a Red Taxi. The Blue Taxi will take you to 4th Street. The Red Taxi will take you to 21st Street before beating you up and leaving you for dead in the gutter.
Which taxi do you take?
Note: "Neither" isn't an option because if you don't choose, then some random people choose for you and shove you in the taxi.
Yes, neither taxi takes you to your destination, but the Blue taxi is a lot easier to recover from and reach your destination than the Red taxi.
Would it be better if you had a taxi that took you to your exact destination? Definitely, but this is where realism meets idealism. In the real world, you rarely have perfect options. You often need to decide which option is closest to perfect for you. In this case, the Democrats/Blue taxi are flawed but are worlds better than the Republicans/Red taxi.
This exceedingly simple logic seems beyond a good portion of the US population.
Blue taxi runs out of gas halfway there because the red taxi siphoned it out for their own use.
Yet in a state where you WILL be shoved in a blue or red taxi no matter what (say, CA for blue), you could vote for a green taxi stand to be put there so at least next time there are more options - or at least the blue taxi will deliver you to 3rd street.
The problem is that the blue taxi only promises to take you to 4th. When you get in, it just sits there. When you ask the driver why he's not moving, he insists that he is and tells you that you must be from the other cab company. If you try to get out and walk, he screams at you. As long as you're in the cab and not perfectly silent about wanting to get any closer to your destination, the driver screams at you. Eventually the driver gets mad if you're not smiling.
Slightly better?
Here's a GOP calling for death to all Palestinians.
I dunno if people know Biden's past as a darling of the Israel lobby. Obama used to attend pro-Palestinian events and knows very well what's going on, part of why he picked Biden was because he was disliked by the Israel lobby, and that was his way of courting them. Of course at the helm he had to go back on his views. That's kind of the point here too, what's in the best interest of US foreign policy is largely determined by the military industrial complex, voters don't have a say in this really. Neither does the President in a lot of respects either, because furthering the country's foreign policy is more about what America is to the world than what the parties are to Americans.
Given Biden's poor polling in basically every swing state against Trump the party should really be picking a better candidate if they want a guaranteed victory in the election. I'd be doing the same as these Muslim groups if I was in the US because I'd want the Democrats to win, I don't see a way forward for this right now without the party stepping up with some major changes. What I see instead are Democrat voters shaming potential Democrat voters in to voting instead of demanding the party do better, and yes it's true if those people voted we wouldn't get Trump again, but saying as much is more about validating your position than actually doing the work to get that victory. I feel like at this point Democrat voters are just going to shame people for caring about genocide and there's no way that's going to get them votes, probably more the opposite.
What I see instead are Democrat voters shaming potential Democrat voters in to voting instead of demanding the party do better
I mean the reality here is just that you and I want different things. I don't want the Democrat party to "do better" in any some ways you want, and you don't want them to "do better" in some ways I want. That's just what being in a coalition is, and Dems are a very broad coalition
FTA:
"a reflection of their outrage over President Biden's handling of the Israel-Hamas war."
If that's legit their position, then they have no candidate in 2024. It's not like they can vote for Trump.
That may be.
If Democrats need their votes, they'd best listen.
The DNC will ignore them, then blame someone else when they lose
And they clearly stated that they know trump would be worse short term, but they are hoping this puts long term pressure on democrats to represent their issues more.
This has never worked in reality though. Republicans will always pull the country to the right if they win.
If that's legit their position, then they have no candidate in 2024
Yes. That's literally their point.
"That Muslim Ban was such a good idea and concentration camps at the border, we want to see what the orange one will do next!"
While ignoring WHO built those concentration camps
These fucking idiots.
Morons.
I will never ever understand minorities that vote this way. I get people who are like me voting conservative, I don't but I get their self-interest pov. You are literally voting for people who want you deported. They have made that crystal clear.
There was a story about a woman who voted for Trump in 2016. Her husband was then deported as an illegal immigrant. Apparently, she was shocked that the guy who campaigned repeatedly on kicking out all illegal immigrants no matter what would kick out her husband because he was an illegal immigrant.
It was a real "leopards eating my face" moment and shows just how stupid some people are.
I remember that story
This is pressure to make the Democrats better, whether by changing their stance or getting different Dems.
Would you suggest accepting that the Democrats as they are is enough to stop climate change, end wealth inequality, provide housing and healthcare, end discrimination, reform the police, etc?
Let me know how that works for you. You know after you lose the Senate and Presidency next year. Watch how fast the Supreme Court upholds a Muslim registration program over an issue of standing or by pointing out that the census already requests that information. Then we will get a second travel ban.
You are voting against your own interests.
This is how democracies die. Fascists don't need a majority to win, they just need their opposition to be splintered. It's exactly what happened in Hungary, and now it's too late.
You might want to think long and hard about how you triage your political decisions.
It’s not a Trump campaign. It’s a DNC better pick someone else or they’re fucked campaign. And that’s true frankly regardless of my personal opinion. The dude has sacrificed too many communities to make republicans happy and now the warmongering. He destroyed his own campaign.
Russian money hard at work.
Yeah that worked real well for the people that didn't vote for Hillary because sanders that shafted by the DNC. DNC never learned their lesson and Trump winning again I doubt they will learn.
I worked for that campaign during that election cycle. You would think that the DNC and coordinated campaigns would learn that not listening to voters hurts you. Shaming them didn’t work last time either. They didn’t fund outreach. They didn’t listen to organizers on the ground. They didn’t care.
You would think that the DNC and coordinated campaigns would learn that not listening to voters hurts you.
They would rather lose than listen to voters.
DNC never learned their lesson
At this point I honestly think the lesson they've learned is that curb-stomping the progressives and daring them to stay at home gets us all 4 years of punishment under the GOP and in the next election they get 100% of what they wanted in the first place without any actual lefties having power.
When you remember FDR, this is exactly what they did then- FDR, scion of privilege, ran on a progressive platform for an electorate thirsty for lefty policy. He surrounded himself with other left-leaning bluebloods interested in progressive politics but dead set against actual leftists gaining power. They doled out progressive policies as political favors but strictly kept the rabble out of actual power.
Likewise, in the waning years of the Prussian Empire, Otto von Bismarck (a staunch monarchist, facing an uprising of social democracy politics he despised) famously undertook socialist-y policies like socialized medicine and old-age insurance/pensions to steal political support from the social democrats while keeping them strictly out of power.
I could be wrong but I don't see that happening until the GOP shatters. I see Dems traditionally as a coalition of basically not GOP voters. Just using single voter issues for this example, Let's say we had a viable pro choice and pro gun third party, how many people from the current 2 parties would that pull from. I would wager mostly from the dem side which means larger chance of GOP winning. Which is a risk DEMs won't take and I feel the DNC know this.
Yeah sorry these people are idiots and should be ignored. We are in a really dangerous position right now where we could still fall to fascism and need every blue vote we can.
Do they honestly think that a Republican or Trump (who banned people from Muslim countries) aren't gonna ban them too?
Absolutely shocked that Muslim fundies hate most of the same people Christian fundies do, yet are too stupid to realize the leopard will come for them eventually.
Shocked I say.
In the little exerpt included in with the submission, a spokesman makes it clear that they would be worse off in the short run if trump gets elected, but they are thinking long term.
And this comment is implying they are pro trump...and it's the highest voted comment? What's going on here?
"But they are thinking long term"
Yes, I'm sure a second Trump presidency will be just great for democracy and Muslims in the long-term.
A lot of people feel justified in not actually listening to others and judging them from afar as what is happening. They feel justified in doing this for very specific reasons.
We live in a two party system. If you form a coalition to make Biden lose, then you're making Trump win. They're pro-Trump because they're helping Trump. What's going on is a fascist takeover of our country. We aren't giving slack to anyone who enables fascism. The fascists will kill more people not less. This is bad short term thinking and bad long term thinking. The reward for helping fascists is death.
Oh yes because religious people are known for making smart decisions....
Muslim ideology doesn't exactly fit with democracy so it makes sense for them to embrace radical extremism. Same goes for most religions.
These people are stupid. Short-sighted generation that can't see past next month. They're not going to be changing anything, just making sure worse for no reason and giving conservatives more time to get the anti-minority establishment further embedded in everyday culture.
and the Democrats will have to consider whether they want our votes or not.
This thread indicates not.
Centrist Democrats have never considered that a party is obligated to represent people whose votes it needs.
You don't understand that people don't want to participate in a system where both choices require them to take active participation in what they see as genocide of their own people?
Or you just don't see how anyone could possibly oppose genocide?
In either case, you certainly didn't show any evidence at all that you have given any consideration whatsoever to the idea that a party is obligated to represent people whose votes it needs.
I think its more that they kinda can't win. Trapped in the inertia of past governments propping up Israel...backing out of support fully is never going to happen. Best they can do is try to lean on Israel to ceasefire. Then of course there's the consideration for Jewish voters who support Israel, which iirc is a larger voting bloc than American Muslims.
Of course it is also amusing that Muslims are seemingly okay with getting Trump in, the guy who intentionally inflamed tensions in the Middle East.
Then of course there's also the danger of turning Dems against Muslims because of the perceived betrayal...which honestly I'd care a lot less about what happens to Muslims in America if they get Trump in.
Essentially, this is sorta like trying to create a hostage situation with a pistol at your own head.
I'd wager the majority of American Jews would actually approve of at least conditioning aid to Israel so they stop bombing civilian targets. And the ones that are pro-genocide, are probably already voting for Republicans.
Essentially, this is sorta like trying to create a hostage situation with a pistol at your own head.
Yeah, it doesn't work when the person you're attempting to extract concessions from doesn't care if you pull the trigger. And it's evident that Democrats would prefer Trump to even attempting to represent these people.
Yup, they're about as dumb as the Sanders or bust people.
They want change then vote/volunteer in the damn primary, volunteer to get rid of the first past the post bullshit.
Doing this, this is just 2016 levels of fucking stupid.
I was a Sanders supporter in 2016, but when Hillary got the nomination, I supported Hillary. Would I have preferred Sanders? Sure. Otherwise I wouldn't have been a Sanders supporter. However, you don't always get exactly what you want and you often need to deal with whatever hand life has dealt you.
In 2020, I again supported Sanders, but again switched - this time when Biden got the nomination. Same reason this time.
The people who refuse to support a candidate because they don't think that candidate is 100% perfect aren't seeing reality. You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
By refusing to lend support to a good candidate, they risk allowing a terrible one to get into office. And when Trump is in office and decides that all Muslims aren't US citizens anymore and must be deported, will these people say "but at least we kept Biden out of office"?
2023: "We recognize that, in the next four years, our decision may cause us to have an even more difficult time"
2025: "Well I never thought the GOP was going to eat MY face! There was no way I could save seen this coming"
Everyone in the comments focusing on literally only this election and ignoring what they said in their reasoning.
Yes they understand if Trump wins it will be worse in the next 4 years. They’re hoping that the democrats realize that putting a candidate just slightly less evil isn’t good enough anymore and they actually need to win votes instead of saying “we support marginally less genocide then the republicans” and that being good enough.
Not saying that’s going to fully work out, but people acting likes that’s crazy aren’t seeing the full picture. At a certain point the democratic establishment needs to be punished for its bullshit lesser of two evils otherwise it’ll continue to do it. Is now the best time? Maybe not but thats a much more in depth analysis than just reacting “oh they must love Trump then!?”
Punishing the lesser of two evils by rewarding the greater evil isn't going to lead in the direction you want it to.
Just it will, it it makes the lesser of two evils to turn to be actually good, instead of lesser evil.
Ones power in democracy isn't in given ones vote It is in withholding it. Your vote is your hostage and the political party is the hostage negotiator trying to get it from you.
If you give away the hostage before the bargaining even begins, you have no leverage. You are nobody, non-entity. Your opinion and your interests don't matter. Since you always release the hostage, before the negotiating starts.
At some point in comparative lesser of two evils must come the moment of "in absolute measures the evil is too much, even the lesser evil". Withold vote and the egotistical lesser evil, who doesn't want to lose to the greater evil has to listen to your concerns and turn course.
Until the first moment you withhold vote, they can happily slide in behind the greater evil just two microns behind them in the evil slide.
Again they understand that for the next 4 years, the thought is after that
Rewarding genocide with a vote will ensure genocide.
You support genocide if you vote Biden.
Yes, because that worked out so well last time a block of Dems threw a fit and decided not to vote. The party definitely learned a lesson and would never do something like 2016 again, right?
It literally is crazy. It's psychotic to think that the party would change their mind about the system that holds them in power after another 4 years of Trump, assuming we even get to have a real election again at all. Project 2025 anyone? It's psychotic to think that all the harm that will come from another 4 years of Trump, now with a grudge, nothing left to lose, and a playbook of how to not be stopped is somehow worth the hope that Dems will change their mind. You know what made the party pick Biden in 2020? The four years of hell before it. You know what will guarantee a "moderate" Dem as the only option in perpetuity? Another 4 years of Trump. Allowing him to win doesn't move the party left, it moves them right to try and get people who actually fucking vote from the middle to move over. The closest we ever came to an actually left president was after 8 years of a moderate Dem.
Exactly if it's a system which requires the export of genocide how can you tell the people being genocided that they should consent to that. Isn't trying to pressure the better option to not genocide you a good thing?
I'm sure there were a lot of protest votes making a similar rational choice against the increasingly unpopular and ineffective Social Democratic Party of Germany in 1933 too.
Don't act like if Trump wins this election he isnt going to try to stay in office again. Don't pretend that he won't erode the election process, or eliminate it if he could.
I don't like Biden. But look how close the fucking baboon came to overthrowing the government. Imagine him have competent people next time. People prepared to do what is necessary, to go as far as is necessary.
I saw their reasoning and it is flawed. We might not even get a 2028 election if Trump wins in 2024. We are heading to a christofascist dictatorship under the Republican party. Once they get power they are going to do everything they can to keep it.
It takes activism between elections to push the Democratic party further to the left. Abstaining spits in the face of our democracy and the people fighting to keep it. It does nothing to influence Democratic politicians.
We live in a two party system. If you are against one presidential candidate, then you are helping the other presidential candidate. Attempting to make Biden lose makes them pro-Trump, as Trump ultimately beneifts. They can say it is long term thinking, but that doesn't change the fact that Trump put three supreme court judges and many more lower court judges into office in one, four year term. Giving Republicans control is going to set us back decades.
It would be harder for Biden to get elected without support for the Jewish community, which leans heavily Democratic. I'm sure he's winning plenty of Jewish voters to make up for whatever loss this amounts to, if any.
The leopards are going to have their bellies full of face meat this election season...
I'm sure all those Muslims are real glad they voted Genocide Joe last elections. Good thing their faces weren't eaten. Oh wait.
Spoken like somebody who is cluelessly buttering their face in front of the leopard cages.
Maybe… Just maybe this is an attempt to get Biden to finally listen. Because it sure seems like he hasn’t been. All the people in this thread sure are quick to write off how it feels to be Muslim/Arab in America right now.
Everyone saying "this is a vote for democracy" apparently doesn't see the irony in demanding everyone vote for a single candidate no matter what or democracy fails. Like isn't the whole point of democracy having the ability to pressure politicians to make concessions to your cause?
So many BlueAnon comments too. Yeah for sure this is just a massive Russian psyop, definitely not people trying to stop their ethnic group from being genocided 🙄
Bring on the downvotes.
If Trump gets into office, Democracy does fail.
If this were an election where the opposition was someone like Romney or McCain, sure. I would agree with you. But this is where the opposition wants to start a dynasty where here and his descendants are dictators for life.
And if you think genocide in Gaza is bad, just wait until Trump gets done with queer people and Latinos.
Isn't Biden pretty much the only reason Netanyahu agreed to a cease fire? Hasn't he been warning Israel from the beginning not to follow the same path and make the same mistakes as the US after 9/11? It's also regularly reported his administration is pressuring Israeli leaders to stop what they're doing to civilians. Given that the US genuinely cannot directly control what the Netanyahu administration does, I guess I'm asking what you want him to do differently?
Given that the US genuinely cannot directly control what the Netanyahu administration does, I guess I’m asking what you want him to do differently?
Make US aid contingent on not committing genocide would be a great help. Reagan stopped the bombing of West Beirut with a literal phone call. The US has that much influence on Israel.
We don't actually know how much Biden has really been doing. By all indications, Qatar and Egypt were more influential in getting the ceasefire to happen.
And the US just sent a bunch of new high powered weaponry over to Israel for destroying buildings better: https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/u-s-sends-israel-2-000-pound-bunker-buster-bombs-for-gaza-war-82898638
And apparently one of the four main people in the US government with influence on proceedings is a pro-genocide maniac who is happy for things to proceed as they are so long as it makes money: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/biden-national-security-adviser-brett-mcgurk-israel-palestinen656936c0e4b07b937ff4287f?4q
No. Joe Biden greenlit the genocide and barely even pays lop service to peace
Maybe… Just maybe this is an attempt to get Biden to finally listen.
Yeah, but Democrats don't listen.
Maybe... Just maybe, don't threaten to throw the whole country, including yourself, under the bus just because you can't completely change a country's position they'd had for over 50 years in 2 months.
I’m likely voting for Joe Biden. But I’m not an Arab or Muslim. I’m a Jewish guy who can see how fucked it is to have to vote for a guy that doesn’t believe how many Palestinians were killed or is actively throwing gobs of cash to the country that is indiscriminately bombing friends, family, people who are the same religion, who are the same race. I’m not in a position to judge. Keyboard warriors such as yourself are.
Honest question: what would Trump be doing right now? Nuking Gaza? Nuking Iran? "If you're not with us, you're against us"? And I'm sure Fox News would be backing him up how the US needs to invade Iran.
Probably nothing. I think his foreign policy resembles something if an isolationist one. But Israel is a wildcard when it comes to US politics so who knows.
Were you out sick the time Trump assassinated a top Iranian general in Iraq and almost caused WW3 over it?
Rounding up "terrorist sympathizers" domestically while encouraging Israel to go full genocide and rattling all the sabers at Iran. It would be a complete shitshow and probably spiral out of control quickly.
Incredibly shortsighted. This conflict has no easy solution and everyone involved wants Biden to take their side.
The trouble here is that the democrats coalition has stakes in both sides. This entire conflict was practically a gift to the republicans.
I agree with the point you’re making, but the question of why people in the U.S. at least care more about this conflict than the others does have an answer, and I think it’s that the Israel-Palestine conflict has much more of a relevant history to Americans and our government is much more directly involved in it (or at least perceived to be) than the others. Pro-Israel support groups have existed here since Israel was formed and pro-Palestinian groups have existed here for at least a few decades as well. So, there’s already an existing activist structure to respond when something like Oct. 7th happens.
This is an unoriginal take used to silence people who did not know about things like this before. Our media intentionally hides information about things like this. Our schools intentionally hide things like this. You can’t care about something if you don’t know it’s happening.
Either human life matters equally or it doesn't matter at all.
Ah yes, "all lives matter" - a very popular talking point for the left.
While in principle I agree that it's unfortunate that the US tends to turn a blind eye to most of the world's suffering outside of breakthrough trends every once in a while (who still has a green Twitter icon for Pakistan and let's finally get Kony, amirite?), that doesn't necessarily mean that a spotlight on some small corner of global human suffering at the moment is a bad thing.
Innocent civilians are suffering in a part of the world the US policy has extensive influence within. While that's a longstanding pattern that's typically ignored, an arbitrary gatekeeping of "all or nothing" ignores that most change occurs in smaller intermediate steps.
How do you think the push for civil rights would have gone if any advances were to be rejected unless they also included things like legalizing gay marriage at the same time as decriminalization of sodomy?
Maybe today it's the US giving a crap about the downtrodden in the "giving a shit" trend of the month, but if there's successful traction, perhaps caring about foreign policy impacting the powerless continues to shift global policy.
In a large part, I suspect that's part of why these kinds of trends get such silence from administrations. No one wants to give foreign policy mouse a cookie, or he's going to ask for a glass of milk.
(Though I admit it's beyond stupid for foreign policy mouse to enable bringing in an exterminator just because they aren't currently being given a cookie.)
Lol why do you think I got banned from reddit?
The US intelligence and foreign service communities are keenly aware of these horrible things. The question is whether Congress or the executive branch have the political capital to do anything about it.
You're talking about spending political capital to deploy money and human resources to help with the domestic affairs of other countries. Okay, fine. Sometimes we do that. Has to be in America's strategic interest, though.
If a dictator invades an ally or starts genociding self-realized people who desire democracy, America offers help. I know Israel has some serious problems with representative government, and so does America--both are defined as "flawed democracies"--but Israel is the only democratic government in the middleeast. We cannot let Israel fall and become another middle east authoritarian theocracy. And that doesn't mean we have to like everything they do domestically or that we cannot call for peace, as Biden has done. But it does mean that we aren't going to undermine the Israel government because it is literally surrounding by enemies, especially when it has a clear mandate, after Hamas conducted a military attack on Israel civilian population. Like wtf are you even defending here, Hamas?
Same as to the Rohygna. It's not just a matter of deciding to help innocent people caught in a defacto civil war. Since the recent conflict, through 2021, Myanmar had a legitmate government with a bicameral legislature and an executive branch not unlike America's. You're saying what, exactly, that the American people are culpable for not raising the political capital for a military invasion to protect Rohygna Muslims because we don't like its local, mutual sectarian violence? What does the plan for that invasion look like, anyhow? Are we also going to remain in country for the decades it will take to root out a culture of corruption? Is America even capable of rooting out such corruption when we can't root out our own?
Like, yeah, brother, nobody cares about the radical Islamist separatists in Syria getting killed, despite having been a part of the Free Syrian Army, only ever wanted to topple Assad to install a slightly different brand of militant theocracy. Are you saying we did nothing, and just watched it happen? America gave the FSA hundreds of millions of dollars to fight the Assadists to maybe turn Syria into a flawed democracy, too. Corrupt military leaders took the money and weapons and gave them to ISIL and Syria is basically a total loss.
Point is, it's not enough that innocent people are getting killed. The victims and their memory will never enter America's lexicon if there's no political capital--because there is no means or reason of self interest--to really do much about it. The media simply does not cover it.
It's like gang violence in America. Most of the murders in America are gang members getting killed by handgun violence, but the only (limited) political capital spent to address gun violence is left for victims of stranger murders or mass shootings, nobody gives a fuck when gang members are shooting each other as nothing of value is lost.
Every election cycle it seems to happen. Republicans mostly put aside their individual beefs and vote against the same candidates. Meanwhile, everyone else slap fights and struggles to come to any consensus. Positive change can happen. Fuck me if we agree on what to tackle first. I'd be rather impressed if there wasn't so much on the line.
Biden had two jobs:
I'm a middle aged white dude and it was transparent as hell. What are people sho share a religion, language, ethnicity or something else going to think? "He'll fight for us?"
If we need to win, we can't do it by acting entitled to votes or just dropping key electorates because... Dunno.
"Don't talk about reducing tensions" was a bold move.
Biden had two jobs:
Wow I wonder why they're choosing this course of action with comments like this. Utterly surprising
Galaxy IQ
the next four years I wish I believed that was all that was at stake
Jews for Hitler was a German Jewish organization during the Weimar Republic and the early years of Nazi Germany that eventually came out in support of Adolf Hitler.
This is not that. There's nothing in the article to suggest that they are supporting Republicans.
They even admit they may have to 'recalibrate' if their campaign doesn't achieve results.
They are announcing that they want change from the Democrats. Frankly, this is what environmental, labor, feminist and police reform movements should be doing. The Democrats are better than. Republicans on all those issues, BUT THEY STILL SUCK.
Punctuation please. But I'm with ya.
For all those castigating them for not supporting Biden: imagine the issue is abortion, and the Democrats are upholding a bipartisan anti-abortion consensus, the only difference being they feel bad about it sometimes. Would you still be blasting the women's rights activists trying to raise a stink, and tell them to shut up because the alternative is worse?
Yes. That’s not a hard question to answer.
One of two candidates is winning the presidential election. The Republican or the Democrat. That’s it. Those are the two to pick from.
For all those castigating them for not supporting Biden: imagine the issue is abortion, and the Democrats are upholding a bipartisan anti-abortion consensus, the only difference being they feel bad about it sometimes.
Henry Cuellar is a pretty good example of why I don't have to tax my imagination too severely on that one.
If one candidate vowed to stop abortion and the other candidate vowed to end elections, violently suppress dissent and install themselves as a dictator, I sure as hell would vote for the anti-abortion candidate. I would hate it, but I would still do it.
If one candidate vowed to stop abortion and the other candidate vowed to support an increase in the minimum wage, the Democratic Party will support the anti-choice candidate.
I know this because it happened in 2022.
If one candidate vowed to stop abortion and the other candidate vowed to end elections, violently suppress dissent and install themselves as a dictator,
And also stop abortion, and execute anyone who ever had an abortion.
Like, it's not even a case of "This is justified because they're better on the issue and I'm a single issue voter." It's an issue of "I'm voting for the WORSE candidate on the issue who is also WORSE in every conceivable way and will likely remove my ability to express myself in the civic process because the single issue I'm voting on isn't supported strongly enough."
Republicans can’t believe their luck. Like, did they even have to pay for this one?
republican psyop.
Most religious people are not good on this sort of reasoning.
Be nice if the leaders endorsed third parties instead of just going anti-democrat. Gotta give people the alternative and keep that vote relevant.
Voting third party or sitting at home is the same damn thing when it comes to effecting the outcome of the election.
Americans would deserve everything they would get and worse if they elected Trump over Biden because of a conflict overseas.
They've shown they can be self destructive having elected Trump before but if the Muslim community legitimately thinks that the guy who banned Muslims from immigrating as one of his first moves in office would be any more friendly to the Muslim community, then they'd deserve their fates.
Dumbass tokens spending astroturfed money.
Really odd to watch these pro Netanyahu Muslims.
The actual idiots are the people calling them idiots. If the democratic party wants their votes then stop funding a genocide in Palestine. Neither party represents them or even tried to court them, so why should they vote for someone who only promises not to hurt them even more?
Americans are brainwashed by the two party system. It's always been "vote for the lesser evil'. It will continue to be that way until you do something about it.
I'm gonna be generous and assume you just don't know how the American system of voting actually works.
When it's down to the presidential election, you get two choices. You either vote for the major candidate you hate the least, or any other vote is numerically the same as voting for the one you hate the most. That's it. Once it's down to the General Election, it really is the lesser of two evils. Third party voting is just one more vote your "enemy" doesn't have to overcome.
If you actually want change, the time to push for it is in the primary election at the latest, and getting one of the two viable parties to replace their sitting president as candidate instead of voting them in for a second term is also just never going to happen.
This isn't complacency or comfort or laziness, this is math and the rules of the system.
If voters still support Biden after condoning genocide they deserve to lose. Rewarding the party with continued power after their recent actions enables them to do it again and again with each time getting progressively worse. This is the brain rot from accepting 'lesser evil' that's grown so large that ethnic cleansing is now acceptable
This is the brain rot from accepting 'lesser evil' that's grown so large that ethnic cleansing is now acceptable
What a hot take. The only brain rot here is yours. Nobody with any sense of nuance is saying "it's acceptable." You can hate what's going on in Israel without also letting the fascists take over. Choosing the lesser evil means the greater evil doesn't win. Also, what do you suppose the fascists will do?
You are presuming there's a viable third option in this scenario. If you can't mobilize voters to vote for a third option en masse, there's effectively only two options. I'll take the one that won't also take my human rights away.
GOP has openly called for actual genocide
Muslims bad?
Nope. But these ones sure are stupid.
Is Steve Bannon's hand in this too?
There should be consequences for publications hosting fascist propaganda
Based. If you have to choose between Hitler and Stalin just stay home and don't vote.
So what does this conflict have to do with Islam, exactly?
We hope that shooting ourselves in the foot today will allow us to run faster in the years to come...
Expecting either US political party to drop its support for Israel is a fool's game.
Seriously these fucking morons are going to assist the guy who wants a "complete and total ban on Muslim entering our country...." because they don't like Biden's support for Israel? I understand this is a no win situation but given the choice who's going to be better for Muslims domestically or abroad? Clearly the dem. And on that point I wonder if they think trump would have behaved any differently toward Israel? Spoiler alert.
They have a point though, neither d nor r is going to be "good" for Muslims or Palestinians, our track record sorta proves that out.
Maybe they figure that when Trump was supporting his Muslim ban, they had one major party on their side.
Instead of zero parties on their side and one party gloating that they have no choice.
I see this kind of thinking often, with regards to young voters, black voters, blue collar workers, immigrants, women, etc.
'We've checked with the experts and determined that they should be grateful! Why won't they adjust their lived experience to match our policy platform!!'
It doesn't matter whether you agree with them. They're leveraging power. You are free to disregard them if you think your personal narratives are enough to keep you comfort after Trump wins.
If Biden and his supporters want to win, they need to stop arguing with their voters and start listening. It's not that complicated.
I tried asking that question on a post somewhere around here and they pretty much responded like I was the biggest moron who had to be spoken down to.
Because in bizarro world a ban is worse than ethnic cleansing.
Then again not like the "very shoot ourselves in the foot, but just little bit, instead of lot" on decades long repeat leads to anything good.
If ones vote is to be taken for granted, you have no power. Only way you can hold your own side accountable is by threatening to withhold the vote.
That is bargaining. Voting Democrat nomatter what and after that asking could they please do something, that is begging. Begging rarely works as well as bargaining.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Joys of two party system.
Most likely people just get apathy and instead of flipping to Trump, they simply stay home. Which is the other bargain. What you offer for me to bother to go from my home to the voting station in the first place.
That is their play "you can't take us for granted anymore, we care about our vote and bargaining power on long term enough to suffer on short term to buy long term relevance".
Whether it works is different matter. I don't know, if democratic leadership has the where with all to take their left flank of voters as anything but given serval supporters to be kept in line with "but we are only little bit bad, those guys are really really bad".