Japan's historic work ethic is declining—45% of workers admit they're quiet quitting
Japan's historic work ethic is declining—45% of workers admit they're quiet quitting
You miss spelled it... Its not quiet quitting... Its doing what's necessary and nothing excess.. if you aren't paid for it
Exactly. Workers are doing their jobs! Gasp!
Considering that work ethic literally kills people: Good.
"kills" ... This is still occurring, let's use the present tense.
I don't know if this was the intention, but that came off a bit condescending in my opinion. I completely agree with you, present tense would have been more apt (I'm going to edit it to fix it), but I resent the way your correction was presented. If that was not your intention, I apologize. I'm tired this morning.
Man, fuck all those guys for doing their job to a sufficient quality and quantity to not get fired, eh?
Well productivity is a good thing, I think the problem is the incentives. Their government essentially funnels all the money to their elderly via monetary policy, and the youth get the table scraps.
I fucking hate the 'quiet quitting' term. It puts the onus on the people who are tired of the inhumane hours and treatment, and the accompanying meager pay. Instead of putting it on the companies and government whose policies and ethics are fostering these awful conditions which engender these sorts of worker responses. It's not quiet quitting. It's holding boundaries between work and personal life. It's not allowing the company to steal your time away from you. It's preventing the company from overstepping their position in your life. It's so many things that are important and 'quiet quitting' does those people a disservice in favor of a catchy corporate approved soundbite. I find that disgusting.
I did not find any proper meaning of phrase quiet quitting
It might as well mean - working only the amount you are paid for - which sounds totally reasonable.
Totally corporate worded article.
It's a phrase meant to replace the old phrase "working your wage", because that way of viewing it makes the whole situation less dramatic and more noble … and generates less clicks. Classic newsspeak.
I always took it to mean "doing the least amount of work possible without getting fired." If someone's making an effort to work the amount they're paid for, I wouldn't consider it quiet quitting.
We used to just call it Work to Rule.
Good job working class Japan 👏 full support burn the tyranny of the rich down. Starting a Global workering class revolt 👊
FYI the "Japanese crazy long hours and hard work ethic" BS only applies to corporate jobs.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-work-week-by-country
we should normalize to punch everyone in the gut who uses the words "quiet quitting".
Heh, I've seen this personally. I work for a Japanese company, and part of my job is coordinating tooling installations with the factory I'm stationed at (pick a chip fab in the US, I've probably been there). When we get a tool onsite, I get an install team directly from our factory in Japan who handles all the physical installation aspects. They work hard, efficiently, and with the utmost care for the finer details (some of these tools are expected to last 20+ years - we have a few that have been in production for nearly as long with very little fuss). Occasionally, they will finish their tasks early the last couple days and take off after lunch, letting me know of this beforehand and that their daily reports will be sent to me and other relevant managers at the "usual" time, with a wink and a nod.
I don't care how much time they clock, as long as shit gets done properly. Haven't had any issues.
How is this related to quiet quitting?
Generally, leaving work early in Japan is (was?) seen as lazy and a sign of a morally dubious person. Keep in mind that, traditionally, people in Japan are expected to work 12-16 hour days with no complaints and, for businesspeople, sleep at the office if there is a lot of work to be done.
The fact that people are eager to leave early and don't think of it as inherently shameful signifies a huge shift in culture.
Considering the article specifically mentions Japan, and that typical Japanese work culture is quite literally the opposite of what I've observed, I think this is very related.
Japanese work culture often meant staying late and working unpaid overtime to appear extra-productive. Now you've got an anecdote describing people who finish the job, consider their work done, and cut out early despite not having fulfilled an arbitrarily dictated number of hours worked. It is a sharp reversal in behavior.
Hmm, what's your definition of quiet quitting? The definition I understand is doing your job as it is described to you, but not doing any of the "going the extra mile" for free, or putting in extra effort beyond what the job description entails.
I'm also curious if those replying to you also have the same or different definitions, since conversations only work if we agree on the definition of terms.
Fuck the term quiet quitting. Call it what it is, doing your job.
Employee burnout is a symptom of a toxic work culture, and "quiet quitting" is a corporate psyop invented to prevent you from noticing it.
Wtf is quiet quitting
Literally doing your job. And nothing else.
Doing what you're paid to do without doing extra shit.
"Businesses can no longer rely solely on the goodwill of employees that they have financially and emotionally abused to the point of class collapse."
People are just doing the bare minimum and that's not ok by the CEO.
It's corporate media term for doing what your job requires, but not giving your time to companies for free
It’s doing the bare minimum, sometimes below the minimum so that they have to fire you. Like how you would act if your boss yelled at you for no reason and you no longer care about your job.
This is what happens in societies that have increasing income inequality.
Why should workers feel compelled to bust their asses when it benefits their bosses, but not themselves?
The Japanese work ethic doesn't even make sense and does more harm than good. If you don't have time for yourself or family the society will collapse (already happening). To be clear, I'm not talking about being diligent work, but working 8+ hours every single day.
Many Japanese don't leave work at 5pm even though those are the official business hours because it's rude to leave before the boss leaves. So people stay at work until 7 or 8pm. Many times having to also go drinking with co-workers or the boss. So, depending on the day, you may end up with 1-2 hours for yourself. No wonder they aren't having children, and depression rates are sky high.
Same applies to Korea.
It was probably higher before, but it wasn't as acceptable to say it as it is today.
You're basically right. Back when unions were a thing, they dubbed this behavior "working your wage" I.e. not volunteering for unpaid labor. "Quiet quitting" is a neologism designed by a think tank to shift the burden of responsibility to the employee
From what I’ve read, Japan’s work ethic has been more about presenteeism than productivity for a while. While long hours are the norm, it’s more important to be seen to be working than to be productive, so you don’t leave before the boss does, but you do spend a large amount of that time staring out the window or otherwise idling.
I worked at a place where basically every other department would stand in the lobby at 4:58 PM, waiting for accounting (which was on the other side of the building) to leave. If you didn't wait, the CEO would likely see you from his office window and you'd be getting a "talking to" by your supervisor the next day. I have never before or since worked anywhere where I've seen so much collective time wasting, trying to keep up the appearance of being busy.
This was an American company. I don't miss that shit hole in the slightest.
America has a mentality of "I'm paying you for your time, not the quality of your work." Even if you complete the work assigned to you they will throw a hissy fit if you leave one minute early because that is one minute they are paying you that you arent available if something goes wrong.
It's all ass backwards because it is cheaper in the short term to pay for cheap labor with low reliability and high availability than for expensive labor with high reliability and medium to low availability. If you take the high availability away from the former you are left with nothing.
This is also going away (and it's less staring out the window and more pretending to be busy), but it's not going to happen overnight, particularly where the micro-managing dinosaurs are still in control. I've worked at two (fairly westernized) Japanese companies and have not seen this personally, but know many who have.
Japan averages 31 hours a week.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-work-week-by-country
I always used to get from bosses, "Hicks! How come you're not working?"
I go, "There's nothing to do!"
And they go, "Well, you pretend like you're working."
Yeah, why don't you pretend I'm working? You get paid more than me, you fantasize, buddy! Hell, pretend I'm mopping! Knock yourself out! I'll pretend they're buying stuff, we can close up! Hey, I'm the boss, now you're fired! How's that for a fantasy, buddy?
That’s what happens when presenteeism is rewarded over productivity.
I've been reading more about the job market in Spain lately and it sounds like they have a similar problem. Not nearly to the extent that Japan does, but similar attitudes about being at work for unnecessarily long hours even if there's no real point. There doesn't appear to be any reward, either. I don't blame people for declining to participate.
It is seen as a positive to fall asleep at work because it means you’re working hard 😂
The phrase "quiet quitting" really grinds my gears. Are you fulfilling the terms of your employment contract? Yes? Then you're working, and haven't quit.
I'm not quiet quitting, I'm doing exactly the work I am paid to do and no more of the extra stuff I'm not paid to do.
Thank goodness. Now when im napping during work I can feel less guilty thinking about Japan doing it too.
When you're napping, know that someone in Japan is also asleep, but largely because of the time change.
Thanks friend. Lol
ow when im napping during work I can feel less guilty thinking about Japan doing it too.
if questioned, tell your Boss, you are practicing a japanese work ethic
Japan has strong worker protections. It is very difficult to fire an employee in Japan, without showing that the employee committed a crime. Employees can do practically nothing at work and still get paid. Call in sick as much as they want and the only penalty is not getting paid sick days once they run out of paid sick leave and vacation days. If an employer does mass layoffs, they have to show that the company is on the verge of bankruptcy and they have tried everything else, including reducing the pay of executives or removing executive positions before firing employees. Elon Musk is in hot water in Japan for mass firing Twitter employees in Japan. He violated Japanese labor laws.
Yea instead of firing you they'll try their hardest to get you to quit. They'll send you to the 追い出し部屋.
So when the CEO of Nintendo cut his salary due to the poor sales of the Wii U and every American tech writer praised him for it, that was just common practice in Japan?
They have to try reducing or eliminating the costs at the upper levels before trying to fire the wage slaves in Japan, so yes.
He voluntarily cut his salary in half. That's more along the lines of taking responsibility than shoring up the company. CEO pay is a tiny percentage of revenue, despite what lemmy thinks. To make a serious dent, pay would have to be cut across all the C suite, and much deeper.
It's a different culture altogether, where a job is expected"for life", which also makes it difficult to quit a job. People are literally hiring other people to deliver their resignation notices because it's impossible to do in person.
No, not that I have seen. Job for life is some outdated Boomer generation shit. When people want to quit they just quit. But quitting on your own may mean no unemployment benefits. When an employer wants a worker to leave, for whatever reason, they come to ask the employee to resign and offer them some money for agreeing to quit. Usually about 3 months pay. The employee can also collect unemployment benefits for several months if the resignation is at the request of the employer. So if you want to quit, it's better to make your boss want you to leave, without committing any crimes. That way they ask you to resign. Much better than it was in the USA.
People mostly, from what I understand, hire those companies to avoid harassment and trying to be bullied into continuing to work for shitty companies.
It's hard to get fired as a permanent employee, but not impossible. That said, the idea of "lifetime" employment is definitely not what it used to be.
Japan has strong worker protections
this doesn't apply to contractors and part-time employees, AFAIK
This is for full-time "permanent" employees known as 正社員 (seishain). There are cases where a long-term contract worker gains those same protections (I think after 5 years, but I'm not too up on that).
Various other types of employment have their own restrictions and freedoms to varying degrees on both sides, but I'm not super knowledgeable there.
That was several years ago, so surely the water isn’t that hot. Have they tried bringing it to a rolling boil yet?
As with most governments, Japan has a justice system that works slowly and methodically. Thousands of workers were not given their required notice or severance pay when they were unilaterally terminated. Twitter / Musk cannot make the case that the company was on the verge of bankruptcy and didn't even bother trying to. He just assumed because workers have no rights in the USA that he could do the same thing in Japan that he does in America. By not paying the workers their severance or giving them proper notice he opened himself up to each individual having the ability to sue him for at least a year's salary, probably more. The government can also attach additional fines and penalties because they have to dish out unemployment benefits for all of those workers because Musk broke the law. The water will boil when it boils and it won't stop.
Ooh, 'boil the billionaires' has a nice ring to it
"Quiet quitting" is not a trend. Like, at all. If you have a coworker that doesn't want to do their job, your employer has a shitty employee. That's it, an isolated incident. The term itself is basically the same as boomers screeching about how "nobody wants to work anymore"...
nobody wants to work anymore
I just fire back with "nobody wants to pay us anymore" now.
Someone recently used that dumb phrase when telling me about not being able to get timely service at a restaurant. I said to them, "Well maybe they would want to if they were paid honest wages for honest work?" and we haven't talked since. I don't think we're going to be friends anymore.
I think it’s a bit of a misnomer. It’s not that people are abandoning their jobs, it’s that they are abandoning the toxic mindset that says line must go up, that good people are good worker drones for their superiors, etc. It’s more like quitting your career but keeping your job even if in a half-assed way.
If you have a coworker that doesn’t want to do their job, your employer has a shitty employee.
I think it's less that people don't want to do any work at all or less than the "minimum" (except for some rare cases), and more that people are doing only the minimum, not putting in any extra effort, not going above and beyond - because their salaries are stagnating, their employers are only paying them the minimum and not a cent more, and their extra efforts are going unrecognized. Ask me how I know. I have seen it myself personally, multiple times at multiple companies, and I have seen it through my friends experiences as well.
In unions, it's called work-to-rule. Most jobs/companies don't have unions, so we get "quiet quitting" instead. The more conditions stay the same, or the worse they become, the worse the "quiet quitting" becomes.
If you want to motivate your employees, reward them. Give them something to strive towards. Reward their extra efforts! Don't just give them the bare minimum and hope that they will keep going above and beyond for you, because that's not realistic and it's not sustainable.
From the original reporting in the Japan Times:
Some 45% of full-time employees in Japan are “quiet quitters” — workers doing the bare minimum to meet their job requirements
Oh, no! People are doing their jobs! What a disaster!
Yea, every article using the term quiet quitting is getting a down vote. Doing what you're paid for is simply doing your job. This is basically akin to getting mad you didn't get a tip. A TIP IS OPTIONAL.
Doing just what you’re paid for and not one bit more is called “Work to Rule” and it’s just total bullshit that it’s an effective labour tactic of resistance, because it implies that exploitation is part of the expectation in capitalism.
People want to do a good job and employers milk that.
You're doing exactly as much as required? How rude of you.
I mean, that's not what quiet quitting is. Quiet quitting is doing the bare minimum to not get fired from your job, which is different from the bare minimum that would be reasonably expected of you. Most of the time, if your employer actually knew how much work you were doing, they would want to fire you, and it would be for-cause, because you are doing essentially nothing.
This is possible because many workplaces have very little accountability. One of the classic moves is to always be working on multiple projects - so anytime someone asks you to do something, you say "I dunno how quickly I'll be able to get that done, I'm pretty swamped from X" - at which point everyone sagely nods and agrees that the team working on X is definitely swamped.
If your bosses actually knew that you were just lying, and were spending 7.5 hours everyday playing video games, you'd be fired. But since they don't know that, you can keep getting paid for showing up to a few meetings every week. That's what quiet quitting is.
Whoa dude, Americans can see this! Don't say that!
Ohh, right....
I should make that part bigger.
Tipping is optional but in the US many tipped employees are making $2.35/hr. They're paid a minimum of min wage after tips, but their tips first have to cover them to minwage
Good
so goes Japan, so goes the world!!! ive been quiet quitting since i entered the work force
Hard work is rewarded with more work and the extra value is pocketed by a C-Suite.
Yeah because they started to get fucked over
Started?
Goddamn I wish they'd stop using "quiet quitting"
Not listed in the article but, starting around corona, price increases started happening all over the place. Russia's attack on Ukraine also caused price increases here for a number of reasons. Rice is now around double what it was a year ago (https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/3949/ -- some general price increase, also shortages due to weather and shitty planning). The news keeps talking about price increases every month. Wages? Hardly budging. People are getting a lower quality of life for the same amount of work so of course the desire to put up with bullshit is dropping.
Now, if people would vote for anyone else, we might see something happen. Voter turnout is terrible in Japan. As a non-citizen, I can't vote so nothing I can do there. (Technically, there are some local elections that non-citizens can vote in (I think all requiring permanent residency permits) but nothing at an upper level).
One big reason rice is expensive is the 700% tariff Japan has on foreign rice. Another reason is the government hoarding the rice supply so they can overcharge for it. For Japanese Government, see Yakuza. Look on your store shelves for Thai rice, American rice, Indian rice, or any other rice from major rice exporting countries. You won't find it.
Not commenting on "quiet quitting" meme thing
As they should
If I was at work for 80 hours a week I would too.
