3d ago

Does the 2 hour refund limit on Steam affect game design?

I just picked up the highly hyped Blue Prince. On the other hand reviews have also called it a very niche game. I like puzzle games to a certain extent and roguelikes, but these are subjective experiences.

Anyways, I was hoping to get the gist of it and get into a groove and decide if I like it within the refund period.

The game mechanics are explained through notes in the game at it took me 80 minutes to reach a point where an important mechanic is explained.

This could have been done much earlier, I wonder why the developer delayed the explanation when it's just useful information

Other games also front load the prologue with long tutorials and cutscenes. So by the time you get into the meat of the game the refund window is out.

The other elephant in the room is if steam refunds are meant as a demo for everything or just to check technical issues like FPS and network connection issues

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You can always request a refund while outside the 2 hour limit, it's just going to be manually reviewed instead of automatic.
The time limit is arbitrary. There are lots of games that can be finished within a few hours. I've heard some devs say their short games are refunded at much higher rates than longer ones and recommend ensuring a game is at least 2 hours long. It's like YouTube paying more money to creators who make videos that are 10min+. Now you have videos that could have been 2 minutes stretched out for meta reasons.
I doubt Blue Prince specifically tries to hide game mechanics for 2 hours to prevent people from refunding it. It's just a slow burn puzzle game.
- This is the answer.. the 2 hour “limit” is just the window in which it will almost certainly be automatically refunded.. anything more than that 2 hour limit and they will actually look into your reason why.. I’ve refunded games over the 2 hour limit for reasons like “game isn’t what I thought it would be” or “just not very fun” and I’ve never been turned down over it.

Yes, the two hour limit affects game design. Based on what I've read about Blue Prince, it probably didn't affect that one much at all. The business model always affects the game design. When games were expecting to be rentals, the first few levels would be front loaded with the best that the game had to offer, and then later levels would be more phoned in. In the arcades, games would be louder to catch more attention, they'd be harder to make you put in another quarter, they'd reduce downtime to get the next person on the machine, etc.
- When games were expecting to be rentals, the first few levels would be front loaded with the best that the game had to offer, and then later levels would be more phoned in
  Still happens today. First impressions matter, budgets are finite, and sometimes reviewers only play the first few parts.
  
  sometimes reviewers only play the first few parts.
  Not just the reviewers unfortunately, games shed players at every step, it's why most games are front-loaded and fall off the further you get into them.

The other elephant in the room is if steam refunds are meant as a demo for everything or just to check technical issues like FPS and network connection issues
I'm pretty sure that the refund window isn't primarily intended to create an ad-hoc demo of games, but to let you return a game that doesn't function correctly on your system.
Game developers who do want to create a demo can (though I'll admit that it's a less-common route than one might expect).
https://store.steampowered.com/demos/
I usually read review content, maybe watch a YouTube video of someone playing the game if I want to see gameplay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KePY3IfxqOQ
- I've seen many devs cite the refund window as why they don't need to bother maintaining a demo. They're wrong about not needing a proper demo, but people definitely do treat the refund window as a demo phase, not merely a technical test.

IMHO, two hours is not nearly enough to get a feel for a game. At least, not for the sorts of games I tend to play. I spend longer than that just working through initial technical issues, configuration, and (in games that have one) the character generator.
I have to conclude that Steam's return window is either intended to be just enough to see if you can get it running, or as much as Valve could talk publishers into tolerating.
- imo the 2h refund window is not so you can judge if you'll like the game, it's so you can judge if you can tolerate it long enough to form an informed opinion
  there's been a few games i played under 2h of and thought to myself "this is terrible, i'm not having fun and i actively dislike playing this", Steam's no questions asked refund was a cure for regret i'd have felt if i had to see that game in my library forever. Games that i know take much longer to judge i borrow from a friend who's into fitness and a girl, that's what saved me from buying Starfield or Avowed
- I got stuck with COD6 because of that shit. It's a boring game and it wasn't cheap.
  
  Dragon's Dogma 2 for me.
- Two hours is the length of some high-budget media; eg, movies and plays.
  I know that some games are slow-burn, but that’s something people have to weigh themselves. Ideally, you’d enjoy the slow burn itself. When I tried to “force myself through to the Good Part of Nier Automata”, I ended up hating the whole thing.

I love Steam but I've always felt like the refund policy was a bit of a joke. I feel like the time limit should be flexible, being a bit longer for games that have long tutorials or a bunch of intro cutscenes.
- Alternatively you can have Sonys policy of did you boot it? Yes? Fuck you
  
  Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I know it can be worse. I just think it could also be better.

I will check out utube videos on the game before buying, if the game is over a certain price and a complex game. This will spoil some things, but it is usually not too bad.

So, do you think two hours is too short?
- It can be for some games. For others it’s too long.
  
  Therefore, there is no perfect solution. Before Trump imposes additional tariffs on Steam, the best way is to maintain the status quo.
- It's too short for most games I play, because they backload their interest and gameplay excessively. The first two hours are generally the worst example of the actual game. Frustrates me that devs don't have the sense to make a demo that showcases the game instead of either nothing or just the beginning, but if a dev does the beginning and lets you carry your save into the full game, you can use the demo as intro and then buy with two more hours to put it through its paces (or already know you won't need to refund). Still not a smart way to sell your game when the early game is worse and a more focused demo would more effectively and efficiently engage potential players who don't want to sink time into every demo, but it's a compromise solution for people who will spend time with the demo and not wander away without buying into the game if they had a good time.
  Also, anything with a character creator or other such lengthy setup to get playing just doesn't work with only two hours of running time as the window.

I haven't heard of the game but see that it's going for $27. For me at least, buying a $27 game, I'd expect 10 hours minimum of enjoyable gameplay, which throws the free refund out the window if it would deliver.
It could be possible that they wanted to increase their game length to justify the price and stretched things if the first 80 minutes were tedious and slow. I'm sure there's some consideration to front load the enjoyment into the first few hours, with or without the refund, but I would assume lesser priced games would focus on that and not one going for this price.
- gotta avoid sunk cost, I used to buy 30$ games and say if I got 10 hours its worth it when I didnt enjoy the game and wouldve been better off spending my time (which is always more valuable than the amountt of money lost on a game 20-70$) elsewhere
  
  Right yeah enjoyable entertainment is my requirement, why pay for something and waste my time if I'm not having fun

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