2y ago

Hamas says it has taken ‘dozens’ of Israelis hostage

www.nbcnews.com

An Israeli military spokesperson confirmed that there were “hostage situations” in the southern city of Ofakim and the nearby kibbutz of Beeri.

Hamas said it had taken “dozens” of Israeli soldiers hostage and moved them to the Gaza Strip as footage emerged appearing to show gunmen in military fatigues leading a group of mostly barefoot women down a street in Israel.

The announcement and video verified by NBC News came hours after Hamas launched a deadly land, air and sea attack and fired a huge barrage of rockets at Israel.

184 comments

This is just fucking barbarous. There is so much hate and bad blood in this region it is almost unbelievable.
- If you punch someone on the nose, you can't expect sympathy when they punch back. This isn't going to produce the result Hamas was going for.
  
  How does this help them gain their land? On the contrary it will harden public opinion against them. The only person that benefits from this is Netanyahu. I'm stunned by the stupidity of Hamas.
  
  I mean, afaik both the Jews and Muslims have a legitimate claim to the land, as both their religions have a long history of that territory being "holy" to them. The problem is that (understandably) the Jews only want to be ruled by Jews, and the Muslims only want to be ruled by Muslims. So Israel and Palestine are incompatible with each other in terms of government, leading to the issue that it'll be extremely hard to get them to shake hands and govern jointly (which, imo, would be the ideal).
  That's not excusing Israel for the violence against the Palestinians. It's absolutely horrid. Nor is it excusing Palestine for violence against Israelis. ~~While understandable when looking at their recent history of Israeli aggression, doesn't exactly make them look good.~~ edit: this was written before Hamas just mowed down a field of concert goers. Fucking disgusting. If you have an issue, take it out on the cops or soldiers, not on the people who are just trying to have a good time.
  
  Ah yes, the old "blood and soil" justification. We have a term for people that think this way: Fascist.
  
  The fuck is wrong with you?
  
  Barbarism, like all violence, is never justified. It may be inevitable, but brutalizing innocent People has never and will never accomplish anything of merit. While the origins may be understandable, they in no way justify the actions and in no way further the cause, but definitely impede progress.
  
  that's fascism
  
  And what should the Jews there do until their land is theirs again? Or are only the Palestinians allowed a homeland?
Israeli army does this, Hamas does that
The people suffer.
Religion best begets violence as this just brings us closer to WW3
I hope the Palestinian people and the Israeli people can know peace in this lifetime
- After so much time, I think there's no religion left in this conflict, only pure hatred.
  
  The Israeli Right sees the inevitable future; Israel will lose its Jewish majority in the next generation or two. Bibi said "Arabs breed like dogs".
  This is it. They may not get another opportunity to keep the Arabs down. They feel they need to crush and occupy Palestine because the alternative, in their eyes, is Arabs taking control of Israel and the Palestinians winning.
Fuck Hamaz! The only thing that they're good at is misrepresenting all Palestinians as terrorists.
- They have done incredible damage to Palestinians with this attack.
  
  It's probably not even Hamas if we're being honest, Iran probably just paid a Hamas branch to take credit while most of the people on the ground aren't Palestinian but rather generic Islamic mercs.
None of these organized people are worth a penny, both governments, all the terrorist groups, they're all scum, and the people suffer on both sides endlessly because of them.
Slowly genociding an entire people and their culture for their land eventually pushes them to commit unspeakable acts of violence to try and save themselves? Interesting.
- You'd think after the atrocities of the 1930/40s they suffered they'd learn to have some empathy for others, but nope
  
  I think that if they had no empathy they would have exterminated them a long time ago. They have the capability
- How is this saving themselves?
  Do they somehow think that brutal violence at civilians will deter Israelis after brutal violence at civilians didn't deter themselves?
  No, all they've done here is fuck over both Israeli and Palestinian civilians. Senseless violence and revenge where nobody wins.
- Gaza population growth is 3% a year. If the Israelis are committing genocide they're not doing a very good job.
  Words matter. The Israelis treat the Palestinians atrociously but it's not genocide.
- If anything the attacks will always have a response so that a rational actor would think better the next time. That strategy at best keeps the status quo and at worst could end in their own extermination.
- See the apologists are on top of the threads again. You sound like Putin. The crimes of the Palestinians are inexcusable.
  
  How is what zionists have been doing any better?
  
  You sound like a spastic. I wonder how many Palestinian civilians the Israeli government has killed. They really do deserve each other.
  
  Self defense is inexcusable? Or only inexcusable when certain people deign to exercise such rights?
And of course nobody is seeing the wider range of things. This was obviously caused by Russia and Iran in order to divert western attention from the Ukrainian-Russian war. Start actually giving tools to Ukraine to end Russia and you probably will be ending/preventing conflicts in a lot of places.
- Western attention was already diverted, particularly in the US with Republicans actively blocking support for Ukraine. If anything, the opportunity for this attack was bolstered by Republican MAGA efforts to unseat McCarthy, as the US is further hampered by a dysfunctional House which now cannot approve aid to Israel (or Ukraine) until they select a new speaker.
  
  Totally agree with you, (some) Republicans are helping Russia a lot. Should be investigated where their funding is coming from
- Any evidence for the "obvious"?
- I don't think we can blame the Brits here.
  After what happened in WW2, it was a noble Idea to give the Jews their own Country. Nobody could forsee that the Victims of fascism would start to behave like this themselves.
By they way Lemmy.World mods can eat shit too for deleting comments criticizing Israel. because "please engage in good-faith and respect"
- Post pics from the modlog!
  Edit; still waiting
  
  Pathetic, they even deleted it from the mod log, It was there in the instance's mod log this morning. despite me continuing to receive replies from my deleted comment . This is worse than reddit's shenanigans !
  Edit : it's not only my comments which disappeared from the mod log, I remember having read many more comments about this situation on the mod log this morning deleted at the same time as mine. and now they have all disappeared
Is this where we're shocked about the Hamas fascist regime doing fascist things? Does the leftists that pretend Hamas isn't fascist rationalize out how they are justified to do this because of "blood and soil"? Probably need to obfuscate the "blood and soil" thing to convince themselves they aren't supporting fascism.
Odd how the actions of fascists are acceptable to leftists if the fascists are of a different religion and ethnicity from themselves.
Shall we continue with the narrative that providing military hardware to Israel to defend themselves from their violent fascist neighbors is different from providing military hardware to Ukraine?
This is who Hamas is. This is what fascists do. There's no real goal other than promoting violence to maintain their power.
People need to stop looking the other way about actions of those they support simply because they want to go along with what everyone else is supporting on the internet. People need to recognize that Palestine has a real fascism problem. Go ahead and criticize Israel if you want, but there won't be peace while Palestine is fascist, because peace is antithetical to fascists.
- Can we stop calling everything fascist? Hamas is a terrible organization but they're not fascist, they're a theocratic jihadist group. It waters down us talking about actual fascists like Russia when we call every bad thing fascism.
  
  they’re a theocratic jihadist group
  Politically there's no difference, in the categorical sense, that is, isomorphic things are equal. But occasionally it's even clearer as e.g. the Nazis, too, could be called a theocratic jihadist group if you squint just right: They had their own esoteric system, and they definitely had jihadist fervour. Merging the state and religion was very much among their stated goal and all their internal politics were geared towards that measure.
  Russia, as of yet, isn't fascist -- though Putin is now going ahead to make it so: Previously, as a Russian you were supposed to be depoliticised, now schools are indoctrinating kids in a fascist understanding of war and struggle, they are getting politicised in the image of the regime, to make sure they'll be willing cannon fodder.
  And just for completeness sake: Likud, as of yet, doesn't seem to be fascist, at least going by Umberto Eco, only like two of 14 points are met. The settler parties to the right of them definitely are, though, which makes Likud collaborators and enablers so don't feel bad about calling them fascists.
  
  Can we stop calling everything in the Middle East theocratic?
  Hamas is a violent anti-democractic, and misogynistic movement centered around past humiliations and blood and soil type motivations. They tick all the boxes for fascist.
  Putin tries to mix the Orthodox church into his rhetoric too you know. But no one buys it with Putin. People buy it when Hamas does it because of the assumption that Muslims are primitives that only understand religion and nothing else.
  People are people everywhere. Palestinians are just as susceptible to fascist rhetoric as Russians, Americans, or anyone else in the world. American fascism is the Christian cross wrapped in the American flag. Religion being used as a tool a fascists shouldn't surprise you, it's the norm for these assholes.
- Would Palestine have such a problem if Israel stopped encroaching on them? Honest question.
  
  Yes, Hamas will still have their stated goal of killing all Israelis and taking all of the country.
  
  There are many people living in Palestine, it's important not to generalize them all as having the same will.
  But for Hamas (which holds a majority of the seats in the PA), the answer is unambiguously yes. Their charter explicitly calls for the eradication of Israel, and also of all Jews. Their actions confirm their intent. They are popular and irredeemable.
  More generally, a common phrase among Palestinians is "from the river to the sea." There are varying interpretations of this phrase, and its exact meaning, so not everybody who says it means that Israel should be razed off the map, but it likely includes at least a "right of return" for not only Palestinian refugees, but their descendants (who are often confoundingly referred to as refugees themselves). This influx of millions of Arabs into Israel—a democracy—would make it impossible for Israel to function as a safe haven for the Jewish people. That is intentional.
  There are a couple of youtube channels going around just asking people questions. Different people have different perspectives. But by and large, Palestinians are not willing to accept current borders, or 1967 borders, or the UN's proposed borders from the 1940s, or any such thing without other concessions that would seriously damage Israel.
  
  Would Germany have been such a problem if the Treaty of Versailles been more fair? Honest question.
  In answering this question do you find yourself in agreement with a certain fascist regime? Thinking the treaty of Versailles was unfair to Germany doesn't make you a Nazi. Thinking that the Nazis were justified in their actions because of the unfairness of that treaty does make you a Nazi.
  See that's how fascist propaganda works. Make people focused only on the wrongs done to them while claiming any wrongs done by them is justified.
  There is no justification for ethnic cleansing. This is the goal of Hamas. They are evil.
  
  Of course. Their goal is not to reclaim lands but to destroy israel.
  
  Also Israel suported Hamas to displace the PLO and then it blew up in their face

184 comments