3d ago

Organizing community surveillance against ICE to warn locals when agents are in the area? What are the legal bounds on this? Would it work? Would it help?

Hypothetically, I imagine community group chats, whose members also text warnings to other locals not in the chat, and those people then spread the word further. When agents are seen lurking around town, someone sends the word out, and maybe people can even gather in person and follow the agents to warn passersby, film any arrests, remind people of their rights, and protest.

What's legal and what's not?

9 comments

Legal bounds?
The law doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
Would it work?
Its better than doing nothing.
Would it help?
Its better than doing nothing.
This thing you're describing is, at its core, a basic community defense thing. Everybody has a few phone numbers they can call/text with "news" when needed, no one person has everybody's number and no one person is responsible for contacting everybody. Letting people in the area know there are "strangers behaving strangely" or "hey, do you know what's going on with all the cops going door to door?" is not outright a crime.
Its not your job to know the immigration status of everybody around you or their family or to remember any conversation you may/may not have had with a person.

what are the legal bounds of this
the law is fake, we're past that shit
if they want you they'll get you

The legality of it is going to boil down to how much you piss them off and who has more guns

Alternative idea: Everyone has a rifle by their front door and agrees to [redacted] on sight. And signage around the community that clearly states that feds might enter, but they won't leave.
- If plainclothes officers knock on your door use the libertarian defense saying you thought they were intruders and dome them.
  Pigs of the state don't deserve our empathy.

Sounds like a way to send panic through a lot of people.
Do you have any involvement with relevant legal, political or social orgs who are already active? I'm sure the idea of a group chat has already floated thru every other brain. If its a good idea why hasn't it been done yet?
- so, panic happens if you're too decentralized and don't vet reports. The issue is that ICE agents are often in plainclothes --- if there's no way to identify them, the idea's dead. I don't know if there's a workaround. Maybe watch for squads of people masking outdoors and walking with a purpose? Maybe surveil ICE stations? I don't know.
  Another issue is that police might infiltrate group chats and harass members. And even if they don't, the possibility might scare people off.
  I'm just brainstorming, that's all this post and this comment are. If any of this has been tried or not, or what the fatal issues are, I have no idea. That's why I'm asking.
  Maybe these specific ideas are bad. I just think, somehow Americans have to turn the tide from "scared isolated individuals" to "emboldened communities with solidarity and strength in numbers." I figure the best way to do that is to demonstrate successful community resistance. Show that it can be done. Once resistance is possible, and not futile, that gets the ball rolling for further resistance and further organizing. There starts to be morale. I picture an earthen dam breaking, a tiny hole erodes faster and faster until the whole thing comes down. If it starts to look like that's going to happen, I figure capital will have to either reign in the fash, or risk a crackdown that might backfire.
  but yeah this idea might be shit, I'm just throwing it out there
  
  I'm not hassling you, I'm asking you relevant questions. Why do you think this doesn't exist yet, at least in a way you know about it? I don't know your context but you do so I can't answer. The answer cannot be that you are the first person to consider the initiative. So seriously, why?
  You could contact the most relevant local organizations and ask them if they have such a structure. If Yes, ask if you can join or help. If No, ask why.
  Infiltrated isn't even a question. What you describe would be de facto public and open to all.
  How could reports be vetted? Call ICE to ask? Minimum number of reports? Lawyer substantiating?
  Assuming you could get 100% accurate information perfectly vetted, what action would be taken on this basis? You thinking a flying squad? Armed self defense? The entire neighborhood fleeing? Lob water balloons full of paint?

9 comments