2w ago

Why are Maries Sues hated while Gary Stus are loved?

Why are female characters who can solve things without anyone's help hated, but male characters who are perfect at practically everything are loved?

Batman is an example. Batman is a human being with a brilliant intellect, which is not a problem, but being a human being without powers, he manages to be more intelligent than aliens superior to humans, he manages to be a MASTER in all martial arts and no matter who the opponent is, he is always prepared and can win. Any writer who dares to create a female character with these characteristics would be attacked and called woke

There are many other examples, just watch any Japanese isekai anime. The protagonist dies and is reincarnated in another world with unrealistic powers and abilities. Out of nowhere, the boy who used to just stay at home masturbating and playing games is able to use all the magic and martial arts. Just by being born in another world, the protagonist is able to defeat wizards who have spent centuries training. And even though he has never picked up a sword, he is able to defeat dragons and swordsmen with a single blow

Any writer who dared to create a story with a female protagonist with the same characteristics would be accused of trying to push an ideological agenda and their character would be considered a Marie Sue.

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You picked Batman as an example? The guy whose parents died, then he uses the vast wealth to learn and buy gadgets no one else can afford to fight crime. He constantly gets beaten right off the bat (pardon the pun) and his whole arc is to use his intellect to learn from his mistakes to do better after he fails and people get hurt. He is liked because in a world where everyone has some weird super power he is just a guy dedicated to making sure children don’t have their parents killed, too. He has a moral compass and a vision and we constantly see him fall down and get back up. A lot of the issues people had with Superman (an actual Gary Stu) were rectified with Batman. Debates on his vigilantism have made him both a loved and hated character. The question is constantly asked if he might be doing more harm than good. He has doubts and questions himself, he makes mistakes, he isn’t universally loved, he is no where near a Gary or Mary Sue.
- If someone created a female character with the same story she would be called Marie Sue. Suddenly a woman loses her parents and becomes a billionaire and uses the money to fight crime. They would s. ay thOne at is not realistic.
  Yes, Superman is also Gary Stu. Since you have a problem with the Batman example, then I'll use superman. Why do people tend to love characters like Gary Stu as Superman and hate female characters who are considered Marie Sue?
  
  And I hate Superman for that reason.
  The hate on Captain Marvel was a bit over the top, but the movie was mid at best. So it didn't deserve praise, but didn't deserve the vitriol of fragile dudes either. Just for me it wasn't good for the same reason Superman wasn't good.

A Mary Sue is about unearned skill. A person who is just magically good at everything. People don't like it because in the real world you generally have to work hard, struggle, and sacrifice to achieve significant things. Same reason most people don't like trust fund babies. They didn't earn it.

Lmao really anime is your proof?
- just watch any isekai anime
  Yeah that's gonna be a fuck no from me chief
  
  GET IN FRONT OF THE FUCKING KEI TRUCK SHINJI
- And why wouldn't it be? Mangas sell more than comics. Animes are consumed all over the world. Why don't they serve as an example?
  
  It's not that they aren't an example, but a bad example. Even as a fan of isekai and someone who doesn’t mind the trope, I know how much hate Gary Stus get. Mention Kirito to anyone other than an unapologetic SAO lover and watch them convulse.

Gary stu is a new term for me lol. Didn't know this version of the whole mary sue trope merited its own term.
But, I'm not actually seeing what you're asking about. Do you have any female examples?
The closest I've seen is someone like Moon Girl or Ironheart in Marvel. But it's my opinion that the hate they get isn't because they're really good at solving problems. They also aren't really a fulfillment of what you're describing because they aren't portrayed as being good at everything. But they're the closest I can think off offhand.
But I'll echo other comments. Batman often succeeds by failing first and then figuring out how to counter what caused him to fail. That's the basic version of modern Batman. Give him prep time, and he's god tier; surprise him, and you might get away with whatever it is if it's a one time thing.

They're not.

I think this thread of replies largely denying it happens, or arguing as for why there's a good reason that it happens should give you an idea why the issue happens in the first place.

Can't say I relate or that I've watched much isekai. The only I've followed for a while was Overlord and it doesn't fit your bill that's for sure. Momonga is overpowered but morally mega flawed, which is precisely what keeps the plot interesting.
- Isekai genre is kind of getting stupid bloated, and sadly an overwhelming portion of it is what's come to be known as "power fantasy", in which the main character, is intentionally made with as little personality as possible, because the writers believe that allows people to mentally "self insert" themselves as the MC.
  Which I have to say, most people are considering the genre pretty tired, to the point where many of them are starting with paordies of the genre.

Batman is an example. Batman is a human being with a brilliant intellect, which is not a problem, but being a human being without powers, he manages to be more intelligent than aliens superior to humans, he manages to be a MASTER in all martial arts and no matter who the opponent is, he is always prepared and can win. Any writer who dares to create a female character with these characteristics would be attacked and called woke
Is he? or is he a rich fucking Neppo Baby running around in tights, cape and a mask, and you just assume he's brilliant because he bought all his lab equipment or had it built?
Batman/Bruce Wayne is far from perfect. For example, the "good" he brings with his vigilantism is no where near the good he brings if he were simply taxed into obsolescence. and he's pretty shit at crimefighting, too, frequently causing more harm than the people he's stopping. ("oopsie, I blew up another factory causing a massive chemical spill." with Joker going "And you get a super power, and you get a super power, and YOU get a super power. EVERYBODY GETS A SUPERPOWER!")
as for always being prepared, that's not how the pro forma story arc goes. First he gets into a fight, gets his ass kicked and then runs and hides in his batcave while the labtechs whip up the perfect solution for him.
Put another way, He's what Musk wishes to be.
There are many other examples, just watch any Japanese isekai anime
The vast majority of which is geared towards teenage boys who are just discovering boobies, and most the protagonists are male simply to cater to their audience.
In any case, while yes, criticising mary sues is definitely more extensive than gary stus- and we both know why- there are plenty of gary stu's to hate. (pretty much anything played by tom cruise, for example.)

Here's a 47 THOUSAND WORD NEGATIVE REVIEW railing that much about how terrible a certain Gary Stu fanfic (HPMOR) is. I mean it's insane. Not many people like HPMOR (it's aimed at a particular type of nerd) and even its admirers know it has errors and lots of cringy parts. The reviewer instead goes through the whole fic sentence by sentence finding things to complain about. Most of the complaints are correct but trivial, adding up to "so what?".
Anyway it wouldn't occur to me that Gary Stu is automatically loved. Lots of people hate HPMOR, I mean really hate it, but most do the sensible thing and stop reading after a few chapters, or maybe even read it all and then say "wow, that sucked" and go on to something else. So there.
- I used to be into HP fanfiction and my god I got so tired of hearing about HPMOR. I didn't hate it, I didn't feel nearly that strongly. I got a handful of chapters in and put it down, but that's reasonably normal for me. But my god you could not escape that fic. It's fans were rabid and it's detractors were even worse than that. If it could vaguely fit a req, they'd bring it up. And then get three replies about how it doesn't fit the req and it's the worst thing since My Immortal within fifteen minutes.
  
  Yeah that sounds about right. It has its own fandom separate from the main HP fic fandom. So the posters aren't always looking for the same things.
  
  As another example, think of the hate Wesley Crusher still gets decades after TNG. I dunno how Wil Wheaton deals with it.

Misogyny. It's really not more complicated than that. Even if people don't recognize or acknowledge it, our culture has trained us to be much more critical of capable women than men.

Squirrel girl might be considered a Mary sue since she always wins outside of the pages she’s actually on but I’m not sure how the general public feels about her

There are other Gary-Stu's out there?

Lol plenty of stuff with Mary sues comes out including in anime and nobody cares (except you apparently)

Stu has a cool outfit and an afro, is always dancing, doesn't advertise.
Misoginy

people who hate Mary Sues generally hate women in general.
Also society makes writing women difficult because they can't be too flawed lest they become characterized by that flaw. and they can't be too perfect, even if that perfection is an obstacle to their end goal like Saitama in One Punch Man.

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