If nothing happens after we die, what's the point of it all?
We spend our days bound by endless obligations. Yet, even with loneliness, failed relationships, and soul-draining work, people still manage to catch a glimpse of happiness. Why?
Why does there need to be a point?
If a movie is going to end is it worth watching?
Paraphrasing something I read somewhere "Do we open a book just to close it again?" That for me, it means that it is not merely for doing something that we exist, but to tell stories, to pass on knowledge, to keep rituals alive, to be a vessel for something beyond ourselves. The important part, same as books, is to tell stories. Everything sparks from there.
We're all just stories in the end.
Something doesn't have to exist forever to have meaning, that seems like a holdover from utopic afterlife religious indoctrination.
We can enjoy a movie or a lunch knowing it will end, I can pursue meaning and find multiple purposes throughout a lifetime.
How does something afterwards change the meaning of this in a good way?
Why fight for justice? E.g. the bible says god will judge and that i shouldn't. So if I just don't care about anything here but about god, I might have a bad time now but eternal happiness later. How meaningless is now this here? Everything is transactional. The love that you gave is for the sake of getting some much much more valuable later.
Why do people find happiness even in the worst situations? Because it is the only way to deal with it. We are made for survival and survival requires the willingness to survive. It doesn't matter if you are the strongest fighter, if you don't even want to fight back. Your desires come from survival needs.
And a little extra bit, there might not be a point in living. It might be meaning less. But I personally want to be happy. I just do. So everyday I work towards being happy. As I personally love my family and friends, I wish them to be happy. I just do. As my friends have family and friends, and their happiness is somewhat linked to their family and friends happiness, I want all of them to be happy too. And so on. As I can relate to the joy of being proud of oneself, I want them to feel that joy. And so on. None of this is objectively meaningful, I just like it that way. And I might be an asshole but I don't care if you agree with me, I want you feeling happy and fulfilled. Deal with it.
Well put, and I think it's definitely meaningful.
Enjoy the ride.
There is no point. The point is that you experienced life at all, the most rarest thing in this universe perhaps. Most people don’t even stop to think how amazing that is. Going outside and smelling fresh air, drinking water, laughing, crying.
Your single existence might be ephemeral, but humanity isn't, your community isn't, and possibly your family either
Individualism breaks that sense of purpose, and it teaches us that happiness is made by personal enjoyment of often exclusive activities
If we lose trust in our community or in humanity in general, if we imagine the next person to only care about themselves, basivally if we expect individualism from others, we lose hope of feeling a more community-oriented form of happiness! And unfortunately in many places that situation is expected, because people are often indeed individualistic
and what is the point of our collective community/humanity?
Well the further you go on, the more likely it is that you find there is no point in anything, we are but a phenomenon in the universe
But if you look closely you realise many have needs, many have desires, many want to enjoy company and experience many things, they feel a purpose in what they do
There is a cute plot point in my fav anime, Hunter x Hunter. While the main protagonist Gon has a goal, to find his own father that left him as a baby, his best friend Killua is initially pretty nihilistic. He told his feelings about this to Gon, and he replied that, until he finds his purpose, Killua's goal will just be to be at his side. So, basically, the friendship itself will be his purpose.
I think the general point is that our potential nihilism is part of our personality. We were never supposed to live an individuals and be self-sufficient. Finding a purpose as individuals might not be a solvable problem! We might need another person to get that purpose.
So while "scientifically" we don't have a purpose, as life itself is a phenomenon and our consciousness is a happy accident of that phenomenon, some people feel a purpose, they feel they want something, and others could simply tag along and find purpose in helping others with theirs.
At least that's my answer so far 🤌
Your single existence might be ephemeral, but humanity isn’t, your community isn’t, and possibly your family either
It is though. Life has existed on this planet for just under 4 Billion years and in that time over 99% of all species to have ever come into existence have gone extinct.
Your community & family are no less ephemeral than the life you yourself live, but you won't get to see any of that.
If we lose trust in our community or in humanity in general
I never had a reason to trust them to begin with, tbh.
I never had a reason to trust them to begin with, tbh.
I'm not sure what the meaning of this statement is. As i see it, you have to trust your community at some point because as a child you're not self-suffucient on a basic level. You need care from your family, schooling from your community, and if you take higher studies you need institutions to invest in your potential (be it by public funding like in most European countries, or by a loan). And that is just on the first level. Secondarily, the school in your community needs institutions too, and your family needs a job from the community, which probably also rely on institutions. You rely on them, they rely on others, so you rely on those others too.
In order to do all of that, before you even really have real life choices, you have to trust your family, your community and your institutions (thus, your Country).
Once you start having a real choice on what to do, then I can accept you might lose trust even if still having to rely on some of these. And you can work in a job that has very little to do to your community. Which is close to the situation I am living, actually.
So you lost that trust that allowed you to grow up to adulthood, because now you have a choice and you don't like what you see. Which is fair, we are all caught up in individualism, we know that we need to have a way out of situations by ourselves. That's why money is so central in our life: if things go wrong in our community, we will need money to convince others to grant us services and goods to cover our needs.
But that has more to do with material needs, not with "purpose". Nothing really stops us from trusting our community for non-material things, such as a sense of purpose. We just decide not to do it out of habit of being individualistic.
Worms entered the chat
The point is whatever we choose for ourselves. Just because we eventually die doesn't mean living isn't worth it. I don't care that one day I'll eventually die, I enjoy living now.
I like laughing and having sex (which I definitely have a lot of all the time I swear)
Somehow I'm not able to believe it.
I fuck trust me
There’s no point, and that’s beautiful. Go live your life the way you want to — nothing will happen after you die
the worst advice ever given to Ted Bundy
Or another way, the process is the point
There is no point, you make it yourself. And plenty of people manage to catch a glimpse of happiness because there's plenty to be happy about.
Well, things do happen after you die, just not to you.
Compassion for those who come after us is one possible source of meaning.
One could also consider that having no afterlife makes this life more meaningful than it would be compared to an infinity.
Your body decomposes.
Well, that's kinda the point.
If you assume that all we get is what we have while we're alive, then that life becomes the point
A lot of people that reach the conclusions you have, opt out. They move into a commune, they go vagabond, they may choose to just flit between jobs and find whatever fun is in them.
Or, they may decide to become focused on finding purpose within the world that is, the societal structures as they exist. Some of those devote themselves to service, or find jobs that they believe make life better for others.
Some stay in the framework of things, but do the bare minimum and focus on their off time their purpose.
The point of it, from that point of view where this is all we get, is to find what makes staying alive worth it.
It isn't like the certainty of no afterlife removes your ability to live and love and do good things. It can make it harder to bear the bad things of life as well, but that's anything really.
The point is what you decide it is.
Well written!
Couldn't have said it better myself. Time, and how you use it, becomes more important once you understand that it's finite.
Your most fundamental motivations are inherently irrational/instinctual, but once you know what they are you can pursue them more deliberately. Nobody can decide for you what the meaning of your life is, you have to discover it through experience and introspection.
can you tell us about yours? what is the meaning of your life? I know we may not resonate with it and think it's worthless but to you it has a meaning
Curiosity.
There is no point, we don't exist for a reason, we're just a thing that happened in the universe by random chance.
That's not an inherently bad thing though, heck, the concept of "bad" isn't even "real", it's just an invention we came up with.
But I digress. We must find out own purpose and meaning in life, it won't be handed to us. Think of the journey as a fun ride with no rules, there are no gods, the universe doesn't judge you, you are unique and weird and amazing and can interact with the universe in ways no gigantic star or powerful black hole ever could.
Because you dont know jack shit no one does, might as well wait til the longest possible length to figure out the unknown
I think life is about maximizing positive subjective experience. If it doesn't make you happy or allow you to live happy in other moments, don't do it. Work sucks, but it gives you money that allows you to buy things that make you happy.
If nothing we do matters, the only thing that matters is what we do.
Life sucks, the world is a bad place. Leave it just a little bit better than you found it and you've lived life's purpose in my book. We are generational garbage collectors, picking up the pieces of societal trash our forebearers left behind. So do your part. Pick up the trash. Leave the world just a little bit better than you found it.
Genuinely thanks for that first line. I’ve held that idea for a long time without the correct words for it to explain how I feel to other people.
I feel like it also compliments the philosophy of “why not?” As in, “if nothing we do matters, why not be kind? Why not love people? Why not help people present and future?” If good and evil are equal utility, why not be a good person?
Existential crisis moment:
But you are here now, so live a good life and enjoy it while you can. Maybe try to help others do the same. This is all we get, so use it to the fullest.
This. "It is a cheap generosity that promises the future as compensation for the present."
I'm just hoping we help each other to achieve our goals before we go
Life is the point, this one
Why do you need reward in a second life for the first one to matter?
Wait, there is nothing after second life? What is the point of second life without third life to give it meaning? /s
Does there need to be a point? We eat because we're hungry, sleep because we're tired, live because we're instinctively apposed to death.
life's like minecraft. you set your own goals and then you pursue them.
Also punching trees is a lot of fun.
the number of trees I've punched in life is more than zero.
Friend, have you considered becoming a full-time philosopher?
a game-o-sopher. when life gives you shitty loot, change the difficulty settings.
There are two types of thinking about it:
And, protip, you're not going to be around for option 1 anyway.
Why aren't you creating meaning?
Without a god, there's only one option left for anyone with agency - us.
The fuck are you doing whining about it? Time's wasting and you don't have much. Get out there and build something that matters.
there is no point. simply try to enjoy it
thanks for the profound insight, nutsack.
There's no meaning, no purpose. We're random life on a random planet. Try to have a happy life and try not to inhibit the happiness of others. That's it.
The journey wasn't taken from you just because there is no destination
Literally a theme in the video game Journey.
Embrace Absurdism. Watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv79l1b-eoI And/Or read Albert Camus
Read myth of sisyphus BEFORE the stranger please. But yea camus is great
I did it the other way around. Still hit me like a truck. Damn you Camus.
Why does there have to be a point? I have no legacy, I'll never pass anything to the next generation, I have and will not ever make anything that changes the course of humankind, the world will probably not be a better place after I am gone. But I still feel happiness when I see a beautiful sunset, I laugh when my dog does something goofy and I smile when I see others expressing real joy. I don't have to have a direction to still enjoy life while I am here to enjoy it.
"There's no point living, so you may as well die" is so last decade. "There's no point dying, so you may as well live" is where it's at
"We're all going to die someday. Might as well do what you love doing" - Alex Honnald. Free Solo (or something like that)
There's no point in living, but make sure you take a couple of the bastards with you when you go down.
Live your life its the point of living. not working all day in the best days of your life.
Your time its all you have. don't waste it.
...or do ! but knowingly !
There’s nothing after this, so make the most of what you get. Try leave your corner of the world a slightly better place then when you were born.
A lot of things happen after you die. And if you participate actively (both positively and negatively) then some of that have your contribution and thus you leave a legacy.
Everything happens after you die. Who told you nothing does?
Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody’s going to die. Come watch tv.
Morty?
To enjoy the chemical pleasures that life has to offer, in its fullest.
You've got to outlive your enemies
Friedrich Nietzsche had a lot to say about this.
Suffering is part of what gives life meaning. If you don't know how hard it can get, you don't know how good it can get as well. And there's good suffering out there. Physical exercise, challenging yourself, testing your potential to see what you can actualize are all sufficient things to do in this life. You don't know what you can do until you try to do it.
Then you have to consider things like morality and knowledge.
We humans (and specifically old, white humans) tend to subject others to a certain kind of suffering through the patriarchy. That's not right. Every human should have a chance to live a good life in contrast to suffering. And the ethical pursuit of morality doesn't have to stop with our specific species of life. Humans also subject hundreds of other biological species to a life of slavery, torture, and death. It is a noble cause to bring freedom to those species, just as it is to bring freedom to Palestinians or Ukrainians or Hong Kongers. Their potential is limited by human made constructs which can just as easily be deconstructed.
Also, the universe is infinite (as far as we can tell). There are many machinations ongoing that cause certain events to happen. Why? Why was my local village destroyed by a rock flying in from space? Why is my town in Texas experiencing freezing temperatures when that's never occurred before? How long do I have to get to higher ground until the tsunami that earthquake caused reaches the coast? It's in our interest to learn about the natural world due to the hazards it brings to our lives, of which reality could end prematurely. Humans are also curious. Why is our universe the way it is? Why can't we live in a 4D reality? Can we even grasp reality? How do I know something caused something else? How confident can we be in those judgements?
The human condition since The Enlightenment has meant we've shifted our epistemological focus away from us towards the greater world around us. If we no longer have an Almighty God which has all the answers and tells us what's good and ill, who does that now? We do!
God is dead. But morality, knowledge, and the good life of flourishing are not.
Also kind of sad that Palestine and Ukraine were apparently hot topics even in Nietzsche’s day…
Nietzsche was low-key a little too excited about the meaninglessness of the universe, from what I've seen.
The purpose of discipline is to live MORE fully. Not less. There's nothing noble about suffering.
The point is there is no point. No higher order. We're an accident of physics.
Existentialism is the branch of philosophy that deals with these problems, I think you would have an interest in it. I struggled with these kind of questions a lot when I was in my 20s (what is the point? Does anything even matter?). I read a lot and hitchhikers guide to the galaxy was the first book that really eased this anxiety for me. There probably is no point in living, it’s fine. Everyone decides on what they are going to do based on their circumstances in life. In the end the universe may not exist again, so what, we were all perfectly fine before it existed and who knows, maybe everything that made your conscious possible will be able to exist again in another universe, you won’t have memories of your past life, at least you shouldn’t have anyway.
I write a little and one of the first stories I wrote was about a being that created the universe from nothing because it was bored, I made a character narrate later on and his thought process was along the lines of “if you existed in this universe, who’s to say you won’t again in another? Whatever random events lead to life being self aware could happen again. The universe could expand until there is no energy left and then retract until the next big bang does it all again. It may not happen for the next trillion cycles but eventually something could happen again like it is now. Maybe it’s all happened before and we just don’t remember it.”
So, even if you don’t find a purpose. You are not alone in your journey. It’s part of being human, to have awareness of your own existence but powerless to know as to why you exist. Some people just can’t handle those kind of truths, it scares them stupid and that’s why you get things like hedonism, flip it the other way and you get nihilism. Despair can come from both.
My own personal thoughts on it are:
You are alive and you are able to do as you please. You always have a choice. If you make your life a journey of accumulating a larger number than others then so be it, I am happier without playing any number games. I want to see things and meet people and interact with them. I love petting cats and dogs, I love ducks. I enjoy the fact that my tongue evolved enough so that I can enjoy the taste of good food and tasty bourbon. I like to know that I am helping someone or something else not be scared of existing, like if my cat is worried because of a noise, I can soothe her nerves and she doesn’t have to feel fear anymore. I am still able to see the good in humanity even if I don’t have much faith in the world currently. There are problems with society as it currently stands in the west but if everyone can find it in themselves to be honest with each other and help one another out then the world will be somewhere worth living in, no matter how short that time is in the grand scheme of things. One day the sun will explode, will the universe care about some billionaire’s wealth? No. Nor should anyone now, if that’s what they choose then so be it. What really matters is not what you do for yourself but what you do for everything else.
/schizo rant
IIRC, the nihilist position is that there is no point, and the way I've chosen to interpret that is that it means we are free to personally define the point at any time, and for any length of time, as we please. The pointlessness lets us custom design life to fit our needs and desires, if we can minimize getting caught up in "you should do this and be that" external mentalities that may be incompatible with our natures. This seems like one of many correct paths to life satisfaction.
Of course, part of the battle is discovering what's in your(you in general not you specifically) nature to do and be, and then having the courage to see it through no matter what influences around you are saying or doing that may contradict it. The other part being unlearning incompatible mindsets that may have been fed into your mind when you were younger; authority figures anywhere in, and in any stage of, life are in dangerous positions to cause long term harm to impressionable, trusting minds, which is why I personally focus more on the "figure" and less on the "authority" part of "authority figure" when I'm dealing with people in those positions.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" - Aristotle or whoever actually said it.
You can either let the fact that nothing matters trap you, or you can allow it to free you.
From what i've observed, people deal with "there's no higher power" differently.
For some people, that i call right-wing, or authoritarian, having some higher power that tells them what to do, is the meaning of life. If they lose that something, then they become depressed and stop living, in any sense, a joyful life.
On the other hand, there are people, which i am comfortable to call left-wing, or hippies, or communitarian, who don't need that higher power to tell them what to do, in fact, it rather obstructs them. They are joyful even in the absence of a higher, guiding power, because they can find their own meaning in life.
The point is petting dogs and the warmth of their smile, crying and laughing at movies and books and music and art of all forms, its supporting your fellow being, its finally cracking some problem that you've been trying to solve for ages.
As others have said, if nothing we do matters then the only thing that matters is what we do. Be kind, seek joy, seek experiences, punch fascists, pet animals. Be kind.
Plenty happens after you die. You're just not there for it.
Whatever you want. Find something that brings you joy and try to do more of that. If it's important to you to leave a legacy, try to connect to others and be in their lives. Try to make good, meaningful changes to the world, even if they're small. Our existences are only so long, and worth enjoying.
The meaning of life is to have a life full of meaning.
I find meaning by doing drugs and hooking up with randoms from growlr.
Nothing happens to you after you die. The pieces to pick up and carry on is on those we leave behind, if we are remembered well. If not, the pieces to pick up and throw out is on them too, anyway.
If nothing happens after we die, it's the same thing as that nothing happens in a movie after it's ended. I hope that the character I was will still exist in peoples' mind even after I go. I've recently started to embrace that "All the world's a stage" thing a lot and lot more, recently.
"All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players; They have their exits and their entrances, And one man in his time plays many parts,"
There is no inherent goal or point in life. You get to decide. You get to give your life meaning.
It can be hard. Sometimes, material conditions like poverty, working conditions or social pressure make it hard to find meaning. Sometimes, you can loose the meaning, like when you loose a loved one. A good society should help empower all people to give themselves meaning. Sadly this is not the direction many countries are taking nowadays.
But despite everything: You are ultimately empowered to create meaning for yourself. Nobody can truly take that away from you.
It's a sandbox survival game. So, the first step is to survive to the point where you can start making choices, the next step is to figure out what you want your goals to be. Then, the hard part. How will you achieve those goals?
To make evil men and women powerful.
Try playing disco elysium
Cat videos.