Jill Stein’s campaign manager: “Yeah, we are the bad guys, actually”
Jill Stein’s campaign manager: “Yeah, we are the bad guys, actually”
280 comments
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Fuck them. Hiding behind such a horrible thing to support trump.
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Why re-elect genocide when you can elect double genocide with a side of imperialism..
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shut the fuck up vladimir
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If this is the kind of mental illness floating on the left. strap up and strap in, The Republicans will never lose an election again. Even if they are legit
This is so bad it reminds me of the conspiracy theory that Just Stop Oil is actually run by the Oil corpos, with the aim of being so distasteful they turn people against enviornmentalism.
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Legit 0 IQ take, holy shit
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I'm glad Trump isn't doing any genocide. /s
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I don't remember hearing any Dems talking about turning Gaza into a beach resort after they purge the locals.
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Can't hear them over the sound of the bombs they send
Edit: to everyone who upvoted the guy below and downvoted me, check their latest comment in the thread. In case they delete it:
Well, you might recall that the funding was approved by Congress, and Presidents should be impeached and held accountable for overstepping those bounds, like how trump was impeached for withholding aid to Ukraine in 2016. Furthermore, Israel is a long term ally, who suffered a brutal terrorist attack in October, and they are in a precarious situation, as their neighbors are not found of their existence, so we have to toe the line between supporting our ally, but also resist genocide and ethnic cleansing. Turns out, geopolitics is not simple.
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Not even a month...
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He's got every flag in his bio except for the US. Who does this guy work for, exactly?
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Holy shit what a dumb take
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A row of clown emojis is the only appropriate response.
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Literally only the mental cases speak this way. By mental cases I mean the people that want destruction of a country for their own greedy reasons instead of building the country to what it once was.
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Now that's some medical-grade copium.
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☐ Genocide and things stay pretty much the same
☐ Extra genocide and things get worse
☐ Waste vote (get extra genocide anyway)
"Democracy"
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Its almost like money and first past the post elections only serve to narrow down political options.
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But now you can stay at Trump hotel, Gaza! Think of the amenities!
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I can see the golf course now, wasting more water than Nestle just to keep the greens in shape.
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Extra genocide? It's the same amount of genocide...
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Do tell that to all the brown and queer people in America. I'm sure they'll all be reassured that there won't be any more genocide.
You might want to reassure the Navajo while you're at it. If you can get to them before they're put into what is definitely not in any way a concentration camp in Guantanamo Bay.
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Fuck Jill Stein and every additional piece of shit who promotes her.
Watch this hour long interview Mehdi Hasan did with her. She's fucking horrible and I'm glad the finest interviewer of our time got an hour to push her on her bullshit.
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The Green party is fucking worthless.
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Especially with Jill "any attention is good attention, have you heard my album?" Stein at the lead. She doesn't want a political platform she just wants a taller soapbox to shout from and act smug from.
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It literally always has been.
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People should be free to vote for who best represents them while still counting their vote if their preference didn't win.
Passing state level electoral reform will not only empower the creation of stronger 3rd parties, but also force the legacy political parties to have to compete and actually represent people.
No more safe seats, no more hostage situation, no more voting while holding our noses, only democracy. More democracy was always going to be the solution to this problem. Who could possibly be against more democracy?
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While I agree that first past the post is the worst possible option, we need national reform as well.
STAR or RCV has the potential to break the 2 party system where votes are counted, but it comes up short against the electoral college system. As long as the electoral college is how we choose our President we will only have 2 viable candidates and the parties will have elevated power to not only choose our candidates but to elevate their preferred down ballot candidates which hobbles alternative voting mechanisms.
The electoral college combined with citizens United gives the parties practically unchecked power.
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I'm wondering what the best path forward is… it doesn't seem likely to pass in either Texas or Florida, but sometimes purple states will surprise you. Backup plan is getting ballot measures in enough of the smaller states to make up the same number of electors. The captured SCOTUS would probably shoot it down somehow, but I think enough people would literally riot in the street over that that they'd at least think twice about it.
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Here's the thing, in a sane world, the president wouldn't matter quite so much. If you actually had a more reasonable legislature, they would have the political will to actually hold the president accountable for going beyond his scope.
That is to say for those wanting a more "perfect" president than some moderately inactive centrist, don't expect that out a country like this. It's a singular position and really should be the second choice of people who want a more hardcore candidate, with a failure to build consensus on 'the' hardcore candidate.
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RCV please
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RCV is a bad option that's presented as if it could fix anything.
RCV was first invented in the 1780s, and the inventor wrote about it as the bad idea that it was, but because he was a mathematician, he wrote about the dead ends in the search for something better than the simple First Past the Post system that was in use in America.
The inventor, by the way, was Nicolas de Caritat, Marquis of Condorcet. His life was fascinating, and his death tragic, but for the moment we'll focus on his efforts to find a better voting system.
He created a criteria for a better voting system, now named in his honor. The Condorcet Winner is the candidate who can win against any other candidate in a one on one race. They're sometimes called the pairwise winner.
The point being, RCV, or it's older name of Instant Runoff, cannot reliably elect the Condorcet Winner.
This was why Condorcet abandoned the system.
It was revived by some guys a few decades after Condorcet's death. They didn't care that it was a flawed system, just that it was slightly better than the only other option available at the time.
But that was 200 years ago. We now have quite a few options that are not deeply flawed.
First is Approval. It's a dead simple system that always finds the Condorcet Winner.
How Approval works is thus; you get a list of names on your ballot. Mark any and all that you approve of. You may mark more than one candidate for each position.
The candidate with the highest overall approval wins.
Then there's STAR. It's brand new as far as voting systems go, only created in 2014. But it's also the best system designed to date.
Basically the voter rates each candidate on a scale of 0 to 5. Multiple candidates can have the same rating. To find the winner, you simply add up the ratings for each candidate, then you take the highest two and look at each ballot. The candidate with the higher rating on that ballot gets the vote. If neither of the top two is rated higher on a ballot, either being not rated or rated the same, then the ballot is counted as No Preference, and that number is reported as part of the final tally.
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France has a runoff for president
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Lol is this real? I've never seen a real person make that argument.
I assume they are just not-so-secretly endorsing Trump. Like, nobody is that dumb.
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Whoa, either they're incredibly unaware of the recent news in Gaza or this is quite mask off about their side and goals. "the moral stain of reelecting genocide"? Give me a fucking break, the conflict was self-resolving right before Trump's inauguration. Now he's fanning the flames.
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It's all about perception. There's plenty of people living in a generational walled garden. They don't see your discourse. They don't see consenting discourse. They see the infallible word of their chosen demagogue. End of story.
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the conflict was self-resolving
yeah, exactly as self-resolving as it is now. It will "resolve itself" when Israel is finished ethically cleansing Gaza. Did you seriously think a Democrat president who wasn't going to stop arms shipments under any circumstances was seriously going to change the dial on American support for the genocide?
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Was a ceasefire deal and prisoner exchanges not happening days ago? Were people not out there on the streets rejoicing that the fighting had stopped? Were Gazans not forming lines along the shore walking miles back home? Are we reading the same news? Are we reading the news articles at all?
If you have special words for what that was let me know. Because it seems that you think I'm taking about something else and doubling down with typical irrelevant American conservative brand whataboutism without asking clarifying questions.
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the conflict was self-resolving
Peak liberal delusion.
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Lmfao I guess I don't read the news every single day, huh. You tell me what's been happening with Gaza. Go ahead, explain with your superior intellect for us delusional vermin who crawl out of the rocks.
Typical insufferable, better-than-thou and pretentious Lemming. A dime a dozen.
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I think it's also the unwillingness of the left to accept "baby steps" towards a goal. The right is perfectly happy to inch towards their endgame and it's working.
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This is always my biggest gripe too. Even if the right doesn't "win," they take whatever they can get and they hold on to it. They'll put players in every position and strike together and often. There were tons of interviews of concervatives saying, "I don't agree on x, but I like y, so I'm voting for Trump." A lot of the left is "if I can't get literally every single thing I want right now, then I don't care if it all burns down."
As a example, look at slavery. Slavery is abhorrent, but we didn't stop because we weren't getting it all. Only half of the country allows us to be free? Alright, we're running north and we will keep fighting. We learned how to read in poorly funded schools, we sat at colored only tables, we got lesser medical care, lesser resources, but we knew that every small battle was getting closer to winning the war. Yes, it's painstakingly slow, but we did what we had to do to keep moving. Yeah, Harris was not our savior. She had/has issues, but she also seemed like she wouldn't be doing, well... gestures wildly.
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Agreed. I didn't hear much if any grumbling from the US conservative base in the decades before Roe was overturned toward their politicians, provided that politician opposed abortion. It was enough they believed the "correct" thing and did what they could within the restrictions of the law, until process aligned in their favor via convenient Supreme Court vacancies.
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Okay, that’s is succinctly profound.
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Don't let a perfect plan get in the way of a good plan.
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1000% this
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It's not just the left but the educated. This has been apparent since I did a karaoke night with a bunch of scientists and was booed and shutdown because I "sang a song outside of my range" because I thought we were having fun.
People seem to believe in perfection and that it's the only way to do things which leads to them missing stuff and being jerks to those they don't realize are growing to resent them.
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I've been pondering about this for an hour. Err. Idk. Yes. No. Maybe. Kinda yes I suppose?
Oh well, back to racoons and owls.
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I am absolutely disgusted by this. Basically they are saying they intentionally and knowingly manipulated Palestinian Americans and pro-Palestinians into allowing a Trump victory and the doubling up of the growing threat of a trans, queer and POC genocide among much more violence.
You may have different opinions from me about the third party voters and the culpability they carry, but I hope we all can agree that Jason Call and company here are blatantly evil and have blood on their hands.
Hoping this can be a moment of reactionary leftist unity. Fuck every leader who actively worked towards MAGA. I’m doing my best to organize and do damage control, but not because some dumbass Jill Stein employee told me to. You should too.
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honestly, I have this nagging feeling that stein only runs to deliberately split the democratic vote. she knows exactly trumps position on Gaza, facism and capitalism. and she looks the other way either for personal gain, or because she supports trumps positions
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She has been to many GOP backed events. It has been known for quite a while that she is run as a spoiler.
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i don’t thing it has to be a nagging feeling even :/ i think this tweet basically proves it
i mean he basically says “yeah we did this so trump would win”
like yeah it’s with veiled language but only about as veiled as musk’s “my heart goes out to you”
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That’s exactly what she does. She’s a Russian plant who runs for president every four years despite not seeking any other political office.
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I don't know anything about the Green party except that they exist and always run for president. Are they actually big enough to have made a difference in the election? I've always seen them as a meme nobody takes seriously.
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If every vote cast for Stein in ‘24 had gone to Harris instead the outcome would not have changed.
Personally, my outrage is at the leaders here—at the Green party admitting their goal was to elect Trump and the Democratic party refusing to give a platform people would vote for.
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Fuck every leader who actively worked towards MAGA.
That includes Biden and Harris, because they prioritized the genocide over beating trump
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Basically they are saying they intentionally and knowingly manipulated Palestinian Americans and pro-Palestinians into allowing a Trump victory and the doubling up of the growing threat of a trans, queer and POC genocide among much more violence.
😳
I’m not sure where you got all of that info. The tweet and article I read mentions none of what you listed him admitting to saying.
I point this out not because I agree with him; I don’t. I point it out because these types of responses are misinformation, plain and simple. And we have enough of that from everyone else.
We are to be held to a higher standard.
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It is not remotely misinformation.
Your comment is by suggesting otherwise. If the Green party in the US were actually a serious party, they would be involved in more than just the presidential election.
So please. Stop spreading lies that the Green party is anything but what they are. Stop pretending they didn't contribute to the rise of fascism. Stop pretending they didn't contribute to a Trump win.
And most of all, don't pretend that they didn't know Trump would go all in on genocide.
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for sure dude
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"Were going to not elect genocide by electing ultra-genocide!"
🤔
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"ps, don't look at our policy concerning Ukraine."
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Sounds like the voting system needs an overhaul if those are your two options don't ya think?
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Absolutely, but plunging the US deeper into fascism is not going to help with that. When you're in a hole, stop digging.
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Right but what did that help with the last election?
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If a protest could work under trump why wouldn't it work under Harris?
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Very true, this guy is a dumb ass.
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Assuming he is sincere, then I'd assume that he would say that it's not "their" protests at that point but the participation of others.
Under Harris, they stay isolated without energized allies as most people are relieved with the status quo. They hope that Trump pushes things so far to perhaps even cancel elections and trigger a violent uprising that opens the door for them to ultimately win and that is their opportunity to finally replace the status quo. A very dangerous game where a more likely outcome is a far right authoritarian state with lots of suffering and lives at stake, but that's a risk they are glad for everyone to take.
You see this in their rhetoric, that it's not their fault for failing to support a viable alternative to Trump, it's everyone else's fault for failing to agree with them, and maybe now everyone will learn their lesson and agree with them.
I've had conversations with them and they hold that democracy is the wrong way. Essentially they think the citizenry are too stupid and/or lazy to decide how things should be governed. This is pretty much the horseshoe effect, both the far right and far left want to replace the democratic system with something else. If someone doesn't 100% agree with them, they must be wrong and their perspective must be ignored, and democracy means actually trying to work with such people. So they prefer to take their chances with prodding a violent conflict since they've figured they can never win peacefully. If they can't have the presidency, then who cares. No patience for capturing local and legislative offices.
The far right was more effective strategically, playing the game until they could unleash. They played the game with the republican party according to the rules, and then won.
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Exactly this, they're playing the very silly, very illogical, very human game of, "it has to get worse, so it can get better".
It's kinda like a smoker who decides to get over smoking by chain-smoking more cigarettes than ever before, to make himself so sick of smoking he can quit. It's a race between getting sick of smoking, and lung cancer.
Most likely things won't get better. Things will get worse, and then worse, and then we die. We gave ourselves lung cancer while chain-smoking to avoid lung cancer.
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Because trump won't take over Gaza and turn it into a casino strip.......hang on a minute.......
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i think their argument would be that conditions will materially worsen for a significant propirtion of the population, escalating the chances of the working class to become conscious of their chains.
idk tho
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you’d think that would be the obvious mindset people who “care about human dignity” would have, right?
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This argument boils down to, "I want to be told there isn't a genocide while there still is. I just want the media gone and the watching orgs defunded and threatened so that I don't hear about it. Yes it's still happening at full speed... yes, it's probably even worse now... but I would have heard about it everyday with Harris. With trump, the news is talking about the gulf of America, so I don't have to see it anymore."
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No, the argument is about presenting oneself as having superior morals regardless of real world outcomes.
Consequences don’t matter, only adhering radical ideology.
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Hey, look, it's [90% of the people I argued with on Lemmy before election day]!
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And it's now 90% quieter. Hmmm.
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Remember, when the social democratic Part (SPD) and communist Party (KPD) of late Weimar republic Germany enabled the fascist government of Hitlers NSDAP in 1933. All because they were too focused on fighting each other, thinking that after Hitler, who is sure to fail, they will get greater voter turnout in their respective favor? Yeah, this here has the same vibes.
Spoiler: they did not get their turn or voter turnout because there was no longer a German democratic state (just to make sure us-americans not well-versed in international history understand)
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No, but I do remember the liberal government appointing Hitler because communism was considered more of violence than bigotry.... But hey that breaks your point.
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It was the communist Party and the left workers party, so both Sides. Because they communist Party declared the left workers Party AS the enemy rather than the NSDAP, Same with the left workers Party.
And yes to the commenter below, who also did Vote itself into government with Hitler were the conservatives back then.
But Point is, both communist and left workers Party not uniting against Faschismus was the enabling factor for the dictatorship that followed.
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It was the conservatives that did that
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I'd take that as a confession to being complicit whenever we get to the US equivalent of the Nuremberg trials.
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Well, Nuremberg was the heart of Nazi rule, so I guess the US version will be at Mar-a-Lago.
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Russian stooge says what?
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You're right asshat, we didn't "re-elect genocide", we (see: your bitch ass) accelerated it. I don't fucking remember Kamala telling us Gaza was going to be a resort and all Palestinians would never be allowed to return.
Man, it's almost like I was right about all those 3rd party fucks that wouldn't admit they supported Trump and didn't actually care about the people in Gaza.
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Not only did they accelerate the genocide in Palestine, they started genocide in the US
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I can only interpret this message as accelerationist self-hatred. "No you don't get it, we need to burn the country to the ground and have millions die to make our anticapitalist woo woo utopia!"
I guess it makes sense if you're a Russian asset.
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Some men just want to watch the world burn.
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Even before this I didn’t think Jill Stein was qualified, now I think her supporters are nutz
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this was actually new to me, idk why. literally before today i was aware of the sentiment around stein but never felt i had enough information to come down either way.
i guess now i know :(
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He has yet to stop the genocide for that to hold a colander' worth of water.
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In fact, he wants to take over Gaza and kick ALL the Palestinians out. And people STILL make the argument that a vote NOT for Kamala was somehow opposing genocide. It was never on referendum, for any of the candidates.
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What about the moral stain of ethnic cleansing?
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Yeah, didn't you hear the news, Gaza is saved!
Oh wait...
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I've been told by more than one person on Lemmy that not only is it totally not the same thing as genocide, but that genocide is much worse.
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"To cut off your own nose to spite the face" is the only thing that comes to mind here.
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It’s hard to tell from just this one tweet, but this guy seems like he is actively trying to out-stupid trump.
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Accelerationism will never work. Whenever there's a crisis, the poor will suffer and the rich will escape.
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Crisis is opportunity for people with excessive wealth. For the rest of us it's a crapshoot for survival.
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Trump literally wants to remove 2 million Palestinians, the literal definition of genocide. So how's that going Jill Stein and protest non voters?
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"but he's going to relocate them...."
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I've seen idiots around here claim that ethnic cleansing is separate and somehow better than a genocide, and THEN unironically link the UN definition which literally says in the first paragraph that ethnic cleansing and genocide are NOT considered to be separate.
And they get a vote. Le sigh.
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Ah yes, move these genocided people's into a little bit of land probably occupied by other people. We've never done that before. And if we have there weren't any problems with it.
/literally Israel-palestine history
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Does it make you feel bigger making fun of people who have no representation in government?
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Does it make them feel bigger contributing to forced relocation of Palestinians? And at home, mass deportation? Hope they feel really good about themselves.
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"Yeah Trump is bad, but we can fight him from the underground we're forced to occupy by the threat of execution or exile, but just imagine the moral bad fee fees we'd have to endure if we elected Kamala! That would be worse!"
JFC....
Earth calling nutjob, Earth calling nutjob do you copy? Don't come back. Stay up there.
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155 things (and counting) Trump has done that Harris would not have done. And that's just in the last 21 days:
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i'd say that pretty much everything the shitstain has done, harris wouldn't have. everything
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"I refuse to believe that leopards are eating my face."
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No. I appreciate the sentiment but don’t even give this guy that sardonic out. “I want you all to let the leopards to eat your face. I want you to be happy with it.” That’s what he’s saying.
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Tell me for what other reason does a "Green Party" fringe candidate from America fraternize with a round table consisting of the likes of Michael Flynn, Vladimir Putin, and Dmitry Peskov in Moscow? Lmao. Suckers.
I and many others have been calling out Stein's bullshit for well over a decade.
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I don't think mutual aid and civil disobedience is going to stop things like the $7.4B arms sale to Israel that was announced earlier this week. But surely that is part of this acceptable compromise the Greens made?
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It absolutely could but yeah it’s not going to since US activists will likely be more focused in democratic threats for the time being.
This is actually an argument I can’t remember anyone making—that the numerous crimes and atrocities the Trump administration would execute in relation to other issues and communities would distract focus from Palestinian liberation and enable further ethnic cleansing. Maybe that would have been more convincing to Harris skeptics but I don’t know.
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Are they sincere accelerationists, or is that another mask for “it’ll help Putin and I’ll get Gazprom shares”?
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Oh.. My bad, I thought the "green" meant nature...
I guess that "Dolla dolla bill y'all party" doesn't have the same ring.
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Absolutely the most clueless fucking thing I've ever read. Are they not paying attention to what's happening?
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Wait, did you actually believe that the Green Party cared about people or even the country? 🤡
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Oh thank God that isn't actually what he said.
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what? it’s literally a real tweet https://lightbrd.com/CallForCongress/status/1889238467047243954
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I meant I thought he literally said "yeah we are the bad guys"
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Trump’s genocide comes with a golf course and resort for wealthy white people, and maybe an Arab or two if they pay enough money to the geriatric dementia patient in the whitehouse.
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BluEmAgA!
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You're never going to overcome the moral stain of instead voting for someone who also supports genocide, and works to take people's human rights away, and wants to destroy everything from the public education system to humanitarian causes, and wants to drill for oil everywhere and fill the skies with smoke, and and and and.
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Interesting. I really wonder how Ralph Nader is reacting to this. I can't imagine he'd be very proud of this guy. Then again, he cut out of the party after his second run for a reason.
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Least purity-testing leftist
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It's absurd for leftists to be talking about Jill Stein when we could be arguing about Hillary Clinton instead. The point is to narrow our coalition till it's pure. (and too small to get their way on pizza toppings)
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Stupid cunt.
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https://lemmy.ml/post/25756796?scrollToComments=true
The Harris campaign didn't want my vote so I didn't give it to them. The Harris campaign was fine with losing as long as the genocide could continue.
The genocide was more important to them than beating trump. Think about that before you tell me I should've voted blue.
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