Anything that doesn’t demonize Israel gets banned
Context https://lemmy.world/comment/14641595
Anyone, who doesn’t tread the „destroy Israel“ party line gets banned from !politics@lemmy.world
Edit: although people here hate Israel and different opinions with a passion, nobody could cite the actual rule I broke.
YDI, try not denying genocide
It’s still an ongoing debate among experts if the war in Gaza can be considered a genocide or not. The ICJ hasn’t ruled on the case either.
If one considers the war a genocide or not is still a political and legal argument at the moment. I am making such an argument in my OP. Suppressing political debate that doesn’t violate the rules is blatant powertripping to enforce a political agenda.
Especially in the Israel/Palestine conflict, accusations of (slow motion) genocide have been leveled against Israel decades before the current Gaza war. I think in this case, it’s only used as a phrase to demonize Israel, not actually understand and describe the situation. The whole debate is part of the conflict in the information space.
YDI.
It's genocide by any other definition. You can split hairs all you want and call it "crimes against humanity" or whatever, but it's a distinction without much difference when we're talking about targeted missile strikes upon schools, hospitals, and apartment buildings. Pedantry isn't going to convey some nuance that people are missing, and the mods were right to put a stop to it.
If making targeted strikes against specific structures is grounds for calling it a genocide then what does launching 10,000 unguided rockets randomly into who-knows-what in a single day count as?
I hold the incredibly unpopular opinion that both sides have been absolutely terrible for a long time so don't come at me for picking a side. I am genuinely curious if you consider both of those acts of aggression as a genocide or not based on your own listed definition.
There were no targeted strikes. Biden told Israel to stop carpet bombing Gaza and Netanyahu's defense was that he was doing a Dresden.
What does launching 10,000 unguided rockets randomly into who-knows-what in a single day count as?
There were no 10.000 rockets in a single day. It was like 2200 and most of them were simple distraction rockets.
a distinction without much difference
To you his might not matter. Words, especially legal terms under international law have actual definitions.
If it doesn’t make a difference why ban people?
Because you're playing pedant with people's lives to stroke your own ego and/or prove that you're the smartest one in the room. Meanwhile, people make those same arguments to try to discredit anyone who says the IDF and Netanyahu are killing civilians on purpose, that they're killing women and children with abandon, that they're committing war crimes like they're going for the high score.
Perhaps you don't have malicious intent, but you should at least recognize that you sound like someone with an agenda and haven't conveyed a take that they haven't all made themselves before.
In short, you sound like a shill for war crimes, whether you mean to or not, and you should reflect on why you feel it's important to quibble about the difference between "crimes against humanity" and "genocide." This is not an international courtroom.
YDI.
Why? What rule did I break?
Human decency.
I understand you don’t like it, but what rule did I break?
YDI and I’m blocking you for being a genocide denier and an overall fucking moron based on numerous comments.
Also I bet you’re a shit ass boyfriend why would anyone want to date a genocide denier.
My love life is great, thank you for your concern. I hope you find someone who loves you one day.
This is disgusting hasbara. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Indeed the more he speaks, the more it becomes clear this was a vector of attack on Israel's behalf
Good.
The ICJ has a reputation for its failures to stop past genocides and waiting until it does not matter anymore before they finally submit the judgement. Besides genocide denial you are factually incorrect.
Well, I'm going to start off with the obvious thing. You absolutely do not have a leg to stand on as far as what you said being genocide denial. You can quibble about semantics all you want, but that's literally what you did.
That being said, you're right about one thing. Genocide denial isn't an explicitly listed rule.
But you still broke multiple rules. The fact that you can't see that genocide denial falls under them, even though it is most definitely not listed as a specific rule of its own, that may be a thing where c/politics needs to refine its rules for better understanding, or it may be that you need to understand that you don't have to list every possible iteration of a broad rule for it to be part of a rule.
Then, if you go to the very bottom of their rules it does explicitly state that posts and comments may be removed even if they don't break any enumerated rules. My app doesn't let me flip back and forth to copy/paste what's written there word for word, but he mod action taken is within their stated standards.
Do I think that them using a ban reason that doesn't match their rules in wording was a good idea? Hell no. They should have just listed it as an extension of their misinformation rule, and there wouldn't be any question about it being appropriate. Seriously, you have made comments about the debate over whether or not the actions of Israel meet the definition of genocide, but the debate is essentially being framed on shaky ground to begin with, and none of the "it isn't" arguments hold water. So they definitely fall under misinformation.
Now, was your comment ban worthy? Maybe, maybe not. If it was your first offense, I'd say anything beyond a one day ban was over the top. I don't have the patience to sift through your user history to know how prone you are to that kind of thing. But it is a temporary ban. That's not going to be PTB territory under these circumstances. Temp bans are a tool to give a user time to cool down, think, and hopefully reach out for clarification. That's not power tripping at all. A permanent ban over a single offense, that might be power tripping, depending on the circumstances. It probably would be unless it was for an explicitly listed rule, and/or permabans are listed as a consequence for violating core rules.
So, summing up. This is not power tripping because your comment did break rules, and the ban is temporary. That you didn't understand the rules is irrelevant to that. Take this as a chance to clarify things with that community, and possibly suggest (in a calm and polite manner) that the rules be reworded so that better understanding is possible in the future
Edit: rule 3 is where they list misinformation. It isn't very well written, imo, but it's there
Thank you for being the first person to admit, I didn’t break a rule.
But you still broke multiple rules
Which ones? Please be specific.
none of the “it isn’t” arguments hold water
Nobody, including you, engages with any of the arguments.
I hope you will remember this when the ICJ rules Israel as not guilty of genocide.
Up until now it’s alleged genocide, if one is charitable. Dolus specialis hasn’t been shown, which is essential.
We aren't going to engage with the arguments here at all. This isn't a politics community. Only reason I even mentioned it at was to avoid knee jerk responses.
Seriously, you can't roll up into a community that's about gathering opinions in moderator actions and expect regulars to go very far debating other things. It isn't the place for it, and it isn't a useful aspect of determining power tripping beyond the bare minimum needed for accuracy.
If anyone wants to discuss the details of the merits or flaws of your opinion, that's on them, but it's outside the scope of the community, so I'm not.
I specified rule 3 of c/politics already, and referred to their elastic clause of reserving the ability to moderate outside of enumerated rules. I'm not sure what else you want in that regard, but I'm not in the mood to break down every single rule when just those two cover the question of power tripping.
You got banned for genocide denial because you were literally denying genocide. Did you think you weren't denying genocide, or did you think that denying genocide should be allowed on a politics community?
YDI.
You're a genocide denier. No ifs, ands or buts.
YDI for the reasons others have already listed, and also Y'dDI here for your efforts to rule lawyer after the fact.
Yes, victims of abuse of power should just kiss the boot and shut up. /s
Trying to victimize yourself will surely go well here. /s
You don’t understand that ICJ genocide cases take years to legally prove therefore you think it isn’t genocide. They’ve killed 40,000+ civilians. That’s literally genocide. What did you expect? You should get off lemmy with such a horribly wrong opinion. No where should welcome such ideology.
Edit: bro thought they really got us with the edit
The number of dead isn’t sufficient for something to be called a genocide. A very special intent to destroy dolus specialis has to be proven.
Genocide is violence that’s targeted at individuals of a specific group because of their membership of said group in order to destroy the whole.
You reply that 40,000 isn’t enough since the most recent war? It starts over 100 years ago. How many need to die? All of their land but two small portions has been taken. Culture destroyed. Homes taken. Many killed.
No one with any human decency thinks like this. Read a book before you continue to cite non-existent facts.
Blocked.
Yet another person to tag as a Zionist in Voyager, so I can downvote any comments of theirs I run across.
This behavior is against most instances‘ rules.
Its not technically against most instances' rules. If it was against most instances' rules then why havent the mods removed _cryptagion's commen. Surely, if it was against the instances' rules, then other people would downvote _cryptagion.
This is what you sound like.
Boohoo
There's no "rule" against promoting genocide because it's just common human decency that shouldn't need a rule.
It's like making a rule against posting videos of yourself eating poop. Just don't do it.
If the price of stopping genocide denial is letting them eat poo freely online I will accept it.
But Israel IS demonic.
YDI. Rule 4. Misinformation and probably also being viewed as trolling. You being overly pedantic and unable to understand it (going off comments here) doesn't change that.
Yep. c/politics on .world is NOT neutral in any shape or form. Before the election, not only did I say that I was going to vote for a third party, but that third party is Socialist Workers Party. The SWP is also pro Israel (tho I'm neutral on that part---I'm all about their pro-union stance).
I STILL have people from .world stalking me, tracking me, and trying to get me banned from other instances. Even tho the election is over now and the drama was months ago. lmao
.world will absolutely fucking ban you for not agreeing with them. Lemmy, in general is quick to ban/block anyone who disagrees with them, but .world is especially pro-censorship.
Their pro Israeli union not human union.
The active suppression of discourse on Lemmy is astounding. The instances and communities are small, but often ruled with an iron fist.
I was the second most active poster in a community with half a dozen regular commenters. The mod got so butthurt over a minor disagreement at some point, he banned half the community members. Now he’s posting alone.
I STILL have people from .world stalking me, tracking me, and trying to get me banned from other instances.
I‘ve seen this happen. Someone was banned from feddit.org as well for a mild pro Israel post on .world.
I'm trying dude. But I also don't want SJW to be a server that has anything to do with politics, so there's only so much I can do.
All I would say is that it's much better to have leftist political extremists controlling the discourse rather than than alt right psychos. Ideally the discussion would be more diverse and open minded, but with the tiny userbase that's not really an option yet.
Your best bet is to avoid discussing the Palestinian conflict entirely. Nothing that we say on Lemmy is going to change what happens IRL anyway.
Removing the comment for off-topic. Please don't try to argue this point here from either side.
Yessir, working class V owner class.
I am a wage slave so I shill for that team.
Cheers!
How is that even relevant?
PTB. Substantive discussions around the definition of genocide are not the same as Nazis saying the Holocaust never happened or whatever and I think it’s ridiculous to conflate those things. There is no rule that would cover this other than one against misinformation—but OP has not challenged the facts on the ground, just the way language is being used. Language is always going to be a subjective and arbitrary thing.
That said, other things OP has said here might constitute misinformation so that makes me wonder if there is any missing context beyond this single comment.
If u want a news community that won't ban u for dissenting opinions then ur welcome on !news_summary@lemmy.dbzer0.com . Follow instance rules and engage in good faith and I won't ban u. However i will warn u it would be up to db0 if this comment would be an instance rule violation. I will defend ur right to comment but sure as shit won't be defending what ur saying.
Thank you. I’m not on the Internet to avoid my views being challenged.
YDI
Why? I didn’t break any rule.
Going all "aaaaachsually..." about an ongoing genocide of which dozens of genocide experts have labeled as genocide, deserves what's coming to you.
Denying genocide is rule breaking but I still don't think censoring you is proper here.
You should be able to express yourself and people should be able to have a discussion with you. Your arguments rely on assumptions about international order that don't actually exist.
Now that's can't happen which is lose lose.