3w ago

It's my 54th BD, left a $83K IT job last summer, interviewing at Lowe's tomorrow. Is it weird I'm looking forward to it?

Last job killed my love of IT, management beat it out of me. Wonderful company, demotivated by my manager from the first week. Couldn't be a nicer guy, smartest tech I've ever met, Peter Principled his was into management.

Never been paid that much, took about every Friday off on PTO, total WFH, can't say what my benefits cost but it wasn't $100/mo. in total. My last job was half the pay and benefits, was so much happier. I think of that every time I read a comment about why companies need to pay more to satisfy us. Everyone should have a look at this. Had ALL that at my penultimate job, NONE at the most recent.

I feel so weird, especially at this time of life with a solid resume, interviewing for PT work at Lowe's. Thinking I'll be happier than a pig in shit spending 4 hours a day, just walking around helping people, doing what ever bullshit I'm asked to do. Looking to see how it goes, see if there are ways to work myself up to FT, better schedule, supervisor, whatever.

Thought about "retiring" to work in a hardware store to keep busy and fit, but not for a decade+. Excepting my credit card bills, and what my wife sends home to the Philippines, she makes enough to cover everything. Won't take much to take the edge off.

I love hardware and tools and plants, about everything they sell. Hoping to learn a lot as well. Helping people is really satisfying to me, and I'm excellent at handling customers. LOL, I'm best with the angry ones, sometimes get them apologizing. :)

Need a sanity check, am I losing it!? Been through the worst depression of my life the past few years, hoping this will break me back into a normal state of mind.

EDIT: Got the job! Holy shit, the assistant manager is just like me! Dropped out of tech to take a minimum wage job at Lowe's 8 years ago, now he's at $90K. We've even done much of the same work in the IT space. "I did DSL for Bellsouth when it was new!" "Yep, did my time as a cable internet guy."

Seems to be a lot of space and opportunity to move up. I'm going to knock this out the fucking park!

BONUS: Clerk at the shady gas station overhead me telling my neighbor about quitting IT and getting hired today. Guy ask me what I did in IT, gave him a run down. "Yeah. I was a web dev for 20-years, couldn't take staring at a screen any more."

107 comments

In the words of another man who left IT for manual labor:
- You have no idea how much more sane that made me feel.
- At my last two jobs people will always leave to become farmers or carpenters.
- Left IT to become a machinist.. Best decision of my life (38).
  
  Best decision of your life, so far.
  
  Huh, I did the opposite. We all have different needs but I admit I recently chose to go down salary by $20k because of stress.

Word of caution.
I've gone down this route and discovered the phrase "you're overqualified", which is bandied around when you describe your previous experience.
Don't let this dissuade you, just keep it in mind.
Good luck with the job interview!
- That's my only worry. Not sure how to downplay that or express that this really sounds like what I want (I think), even at the massive pay cut.
  
  "Overqualified" just means they're afraid you know your rights and can't be exploited like someone fresh out of school.
  But if they're already entertaining the idea of hiring someone in their 50's I doubt you'll hear it very often if at all.
  
  as an ex-IT currently working at Lowes, they don't really give a shit about your qualifications, and probably won't even ask. passing the drug test and background check is about the only qualifications that matter to them.
  
  Quality of Life, Life Balance, something like that?
  
  just lie to them?

My story is literally the opposite. Working at places like Lowes and the shitty coworkers and management was my drive to finish school and get a better job.
Every job can suck because of people who suck. Retail is definitely NOT better. I ain't saying it's worse, but it ain't better.
- Controversial but when it actually IS essentially just "for spending money" part time work, is retail that bad? You have the psychological benefits of seeing new people, having consistent relationships, helping others, physical activity, a routine, and anything else that working may bring to your social calendar. Oh and waaaay less responsibility and pressure.
  Cause it is essentially working for mental health reasons instead of financial. It is a lot easier to walk away then as soon as mental health is compromised!
  
  I think the people hating on retail haven't developed people skills because they're young or simply can't. I can flip an angry customer around in a few minutes, have them eating out of my hand.
  The secret sauce? Treat like as what they are, a human being coming to you for help, not pain-in-the-ass customer #43 for the day. Even the ones that start out angry quickly catch on that you're on their side and doing your damnedest to help. If you're fake, they can smell it.
  
  If you're financially stable enough to actually throw hands with that one customer (who will show up in your life eventually), then yeah, I can understand that.
- I had a similar arc, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't thinking about going back.
  I worked retail for two years post highschool. Looking at my coworkers, some of whom were in their 40s/50s and still at pretty low level positions, made me go to community college and then a four year school.
  14 years later working on software (dev, highly engaged/invested PO, now PM) and I either have a more clear-eyed worldview or a my company is starting to fall apart. I'm very over our command and control leadership that's been touting the next new framework only to continue to command and control in that framework and then claim "that framework was actually bad, this new framework is good". The battling between teams building basically the same things, but for their niches of the world, "how I want it" coming every which was as opposed to thinking about what we should be solving, everything being the top priority, actions mattering more than results, etc. Layer in process debt that goes back to the 1950s and technical debt going back to the 1980s. I know younger companies don't have the later two problems, but from lurking in dev related communities for years everything else seems pretty common.
  At my retail job the worst I had to deal with was the occasional grouchy customer, which just meant calling a manager to deal with it if I couldn't. We're doing the best we can to stash away money. We've started doing math to say, "we might have to work longer in total, but if we were to take lower paying jobs at
  <age>
  this is what our finances would look like".

Dude, if you're happy and can survive, you made the right move.
Working in IT has me questioning my entire existence. In many ways, I envy you.
- As someone who just got his A+ certification and is looking for his first job in IT, why do/did you feel this way?
  I am doing a career switch from marketing/SEO which was…! Manipulating everything for people to sell shit and my job is beholden to whatever the FUCK Google wants to do today? No thanks!
  
  It depends A LOT what kind of IT career you do. If you are a sysadmin with a shitty manager/company you'll hate it. If you do helpdesk you'll hate the whole human race.
  But you can become devops, SRE, cloud engineer, architect, so you get all the fun at tinkering without the bullshit (most of the time, no job is perfect).
  
  If you enjoy tech, keep going for it. There's nothing inherently shitty about the work, at any level, and it pays. As with any career, we sometimes burn out.
  
  I worked in email marketing for JP Morgan for a few years. Most miserable job I ever had. All work from home and super short hours but I couldn't live with all the information manipulation that was going on. It's ridiculous how much personal info people give up online without even realizing it and that was 10 years ago. I can only imagine how bad it is now.
  
  My experience is that ITs role is to manage organizational liability, not helping people. Perhaps i am naive, but i wanted a job in tech so that i could help support other people in doing amazing work. You do get to do that, but it needs to be constantly framed from that point of organizational liability in order to effect any change. Different orgs have different risk appetites and cultures that make that change easier or harder.
  tbh i would still start a carrer in tech, i do not want to dissuade you from such. For me i was better able to navigate the day to day bullshit after i learned what they are actually paying me for vs the dream i had in my head.
  
  Well at least now you can work in a hands-on environment and hopefully use your marketing skills to manipulate your management chain into doing what's right for you or the company.

Nah, not crazy. In my view anyway. In 2020 I left nursing in CA making close to $100k and paid zero for actually amazing insurance… to work part time at a bakery for roughly $23/hr in Norway. I was 39.
Sometimes we just have enough and we don’t need to keep chasing the dollars in favor of a simpler, cozier life.
- How did you move to Norway? Afaik you can't just show up to stay permanently.
  
  You’re right, it is actually quite uncommon for Americans to live here without special circumstances. My husband is in tech, and managed to get hired on here, and so we are here on his work visa. We can test for citizenship after 7 years residency and testing language and civics, which we plan to do in about 3 years. We know that we are very lucky.
- Norway has much nicer benefits and lower cost if living than California
  
  Cost of living isn’t off by too terribly much haha. Our 2bd 1ba apartment is about half the cost that our 3bd 2ba duplex in Bay Area was. But we make substantially less. Also a hamburger, for reference, is routinely about $20 without fries, like for a Five Guys kind of burger. So we don’t eat out nearly as much. Healthier that way anyway. Lots of trade offs but ultimately it is the best and safest place I’ve ever lived.
- Are you a citizen in Norway? Asking because that sounds nice
  
  Not yet, but we can test (language and civics) in about 3 years which we plan to do. We are currently “temporary residents” and renew every two years. My husband has a work visa to work in tech here, and I’m here tied to that visa through family reunification. We will apply for “permanent” residency (not citizenship yet) later this year.

That’s literally the plot of Stardew Valley. Leaving the world of digital work in favor of something more tangible is a dream come true for many of us.

I used to have a white-collar job and now work in retail. You know what I love? 1) If there’s a problem, it’s my manager’s problem. I am entry level by choice, and have as little responsibility as possible. 2) Work stays at work. The second I clock out, I stop giving a damn about that place. 3) On the rare occasion I get a call from work, I always screen it. If some jackass didn’t show up, and I don’t feel like going in, I simply don’t call back.
I like my job. I like the people I work with. I’m pleasant and helpful to our customers. Maintaining boundaries helps keep it that way.

You're living the dream... and I'm right behind you.
Just hit 58 and I'm still working in tech (not IT any more, but adjacent). In March I'm going to tell them that I'll be working fewer hours. Not asking, telling.
It's their choice whether I work zero hours or some number that's less than the 80 I'm currently putting in. I'll either have 3-day weekends or 7-day weekends.

Theres a reason behind the "retire and herd goats" joke for IT. Burnout sucks. Sounds like your needs will be met financially, enjoy it!

17 years in tech. Made it to director level. Decided I hated ladder climbing. Transitioned to software engineering full time and spent the last 5 years doing that. The work life balance was a lot better but the corporate BS was not. I've decided corporate jobs may not be for me.
Currently working on a software project of my own. If that works out, great. If not, I may get out of the business instead of going to another corporate job. I've got enough experience to do just about anything I want to but I honestly don't know what that would be.
- Are you me? Currently at the director level debating a switch back to dev. Prior director in my role did the same. I actually love my boss and when I'm empowered to run my org, the work is great. But too much of my job is trying to insulate my teams from the BS and it's burning me out. But I'm not sure I'd want to give up being able to fight the BS and would eventually get frustrated by it again as a dev.
  So here I am, riding it out. I know at some point politics will get me and my style of insulating my engineers will cost me my job, even though by doing so we have great productivity metrics. And being real - I think the hardest part is that by shielding my teams from the BS, I become the face for the shit that does get through so the people I fight so hard to protect often blame me for their very real complaints.
  I'm not sure what's next for me, but I save everything I can because I assume that the change might not be my choice.
  
  I know at some point politics will get me and my style of insulating my engineers will cost me my job, even though by doing so we have great productivity metrics.
  Mine ultimately did cost me my job. Or at least it was a contributing factor. I was so sick of the relentless conflict and the toxicity. When I eventually got fired, I missed my team but I was also relieved. It was like a huge weight being lifted. Knowing what I know now, I would never have taken the job to begin with. On the other hand, I do think it helped me grow personally and figure out what my values are. I decided I was ready to put my career on the line if I had to choose between keeping my job and doing the right thing. I did the best I could and my conscience is clear.

The best job to have is the one that you don't need. I was fortunate enough to retire early from a high stress job. I didn't hate the job. I just had enough. After 3 months I was bored. Got myself a part time job. And as was mentioned in an earlier comment, if the place burns down I couldn't care less. I'm always on time, never sick, and good at my mickey mouse part time job because it's a joke compared to the real job I had. It is fascinating to observe my fellow workers who are all very nice people because for them THIS is their career and for me it's just a throw away to get out of the house.

Wayyyy ahead of you pal. Got into tech when I was a wee little lad, my dad would bring home computers from the work dumpster, hand me a screw driver and let me go at it.
When I was 11 I built a computer with my dad, and continued learning about tech and computers. I worked after school in middle school to help out the librarian, who had the job of looking after the laptops and computer carts.
Went into highschool and got into a Comptia± honors class, as the only freshman and the only person to get As in that class.
Fresh after highschool and 6 months into a computer job, I quit at the age of 19. Instead I went to pursue woodworking.
I had a great boss, and I was great at my job, but I was in computer repair. A dying industry and I was getting paid minimum wage, despite a lot of skill (microsoldering, logic board rework, macbook repair, liquid damage repair, etc).
Skill and knowledge that I studied for a decade, and I was being paid minimum wage. There were probably better opportunities but I wasn't interested anymore. The environment was just far too corporate, so I decided to start building my own business, woodworking, selling tools, and help teach.
Ive gone to tool events, tuned up a lot of tools, and given presentations and its 10x more fulfilling. Havent made a lot from the "business" but I'm happy.

I'm near my 40s, and have been working as software dev since finishing my masters. Few years back I started to go in the direction of more management less dev in a previous company. Saw it wasn't for me and went to work somewhere else working as a simpler dev role. A few years after and I'm starting to feel the need to change further even. I do love coding but the whole layer of tech debt and management and meetings is wearing me out and has made me lose my love for tech. I am just lost as to what I'd do instead. Cannot work on retail with my autistic ass and since WFH was allowed and accepted I am not planning to go back to an office anyway. Maybe woodworker or something would be enjoyable for me, but there's other constraints that won't allow me to change right now, lots of bills to pay and my wife is an entrepreneur so we can't really risk losing my stable position right now, with two small kids. Once they grow and get out of the house we'd likely move more country side, get some chicken to care for (we love animals) or something like that and maybe I can get space to do some wood work or whatever come to mind then.
So overall, no, you are not losing it, or maybe we are all losing it together. Same with depression, it's such a tough shit to leave behind. I'm still fighting with it but doing better lately, the job doesn't help at all...
- Also a tech worker considering a major pivot. I have a fascination with electrical work so I'm wondering if taking on an apprenticeship might give me a chance to dip my toes in.

Good on ya mate. I retired, at least temporarily, from almost 30 years in IT today. I may do some part time consulting to pay for vacations in the future, but my FT days are over. I hope you enjoy being away from it as much as I will.

not crazy, I'm 26 and have been daydreaming about quitting my "cushy" wfh tech job and going back to being a grocery store cashier for at least 2 years now. wfh is so isolating for me, and my adhd time management shortcomings spike my anxiety. I'm too tired to be interested in personal code projects, server hosting, or linux in my off time, and my office now has a background sense of dread rather than the safe gaming space it used to be.
I just want to show up, at the same time every day, be friendly to people and help them with small tasks, and then leave work at work after at the end of the day. a consistent schedule, friends, and not having tech forced on me 24/7 would do wonders for my mental health, not to mention boons to physical health needing to move around every day. I just can't afford to go back to minimum wage right now
- Oof. I can kinda relate. Any way you could do the tech stuff part time, and be a cashier part time? I have seriously considered finding a part time role in my current line of work to just make enough money to live, and then doing something else part time that doesn't eat my soul.
- Gods I FEEL you! Same, same and same. I can't afford to do this either, but did it for my sanity.
  Tried more for my physical health, marching and kayaking for miles around the woods and swamps. Just couldn't get the human connection.
  I'm hired and I SANG today while canoeing! We shall see.
- You could try a hybrid job as a less "risky" option.
  I personally like it and I usually work 2 days (sometimes 3 days) from home every week.

I went the other way around, I was a central heating engineer and plumber in my youth and even if I liked the work a lot I hated the winters, it's so cold in a building without heating. So I switched to factory work, the payment was better and it was always a comfortable temperature, but it was so extramly boring. And I just couldn't do it and resigned after 3 years.
So I switched careers again, went to school and eventually to university at 30 years old and then gör a job in a small startup working a lot with open source and the colleagues were all very smart and nice. The startup got bought up by a big company and it got a bit worse, but more stable when it comes to projects. After 10 years I still work at this company even though I moved to a different continent, etc.
I have been working from home since covid and people trust me to do my job so they don't bother me, it's very nice.

I went from being a highly technical CIO/CTO for most of my career, to becoming a bartender. I adore it, couldn’t be happier, and now am studying to become a sommelier. I still do occasional cybersecurity and tech compliance consulting when a project piques my interest, but very rarely. I absolutely loved IT, but getting out when I did (~2 years ago) saved my sanity and health. Now I do a lot of home automation programming for myself to scratch the tech itch. Best of luck!

you remind me of me in some ways. I can't do what you do though as my wife has a lot of medical issues and its all on my pay. I must find something.

This is my goal as well. Been in software for 27 years (holy shit) and want to retire by 55. Only open question for me is health insurance.

This thread is really making me doubt my career path. At 20, should I even bother going into tech/IT if I switch to a trade later on?
- The vast, vast majority of people don't quit their job or their employer, but their boss and coworkers.
  Don't underestimate how much healthy relationships at work matter when you spend so much of your time there. Yes, in tech jobs as well. So stick with IT if you like it, but don't stick around in a bad environment. Especially if you plan to have a family in X years, because then it gets a lot harder and riskier to jump ship and change your situation.
- Stick with IT! There's nothing inherently bad about the space, lots of room to move around and do different things, make solid money. 20-years of anything will burn you out unless you're not very bright.
- Do what pays the bills while you figure out what sort of trade work you might enjoy, look for paid training/apprenticeship spots, low voltage automation controls is a tech field that interacts with the trade a lot, I'm a maintenance tech and interact with our controls guy all the time.
- If you're 20, YMMV but for me, please get into a trade.
  Just be smart and plan your exit. Your body will only take so much so trade until your body has enough then get into teaching whatever trade you got into.
  My neighbours son is doing this now. HVAC career is done he's in teachers college now to start his second career.
  FWIW this is my plan now too. I'm pretty much done with IT. I'm investigating teaching now, or being a porter at a hospital.
- It’s also okay to want to take a break from a stressful career with a less stressful one. I took a break from teaching at a university to take care of therapy animals, and at year 1.5, I’ve really finally feel recharged.

I am a programmer too. I absolutely loved it. I finally took a shot and changed my hobby into a stable good-paying job with a car, laptop, phone, whatever.
I quit a few years later. Almost exclusively because of the project managers. I was mentally exhausted because of the daily 8 hours of stress they gave me. I wasn't able to look at code for around 8 months.
I'm working on getting my drivers license back and am thinking of getting into package delivery. I have also been working on opensource projects and have actually been enjoying it again.

When I'm at a screen I wanna work outside and when I'm working outside I desperately want to be back at my cushy screen time jobs.

Not crazy at all, but just be forewarned that dealing with the public will make you long for the computer screen again!
- When I worked at Lowe’s, dealing with the public was the only good part of the job.

I had what should have been my dream job. I absolutely hated it and everything about it broke me and made me suicidally depressed. I took a lower paying job without all the responsibilities and long commute. I was surprisingly happy there.
For a while, I felt bad that I’d “demoted” myself. Then I reshaped my thinking to the following: I don’t have to prove anything to anyone. I can do whatever the hell I want. Never cared again.

My uncle was a highly paid banker, and ran off to Australia to build his own farm. So it doesn't seem weird to me.
However I'm a little surprised by your old wages. $83k in IT at 53 seems low, and before that you were even at $42k? I thought US American IT paid really well. Or is that specific to California only or to developers only?
- I’m not that guy, but the term IT is extremely overloaded these days. People can say they are in IT working anything from a $20/hr help desk job to a $900k/yr AI engineer in big tech.
  Industry, company, location can all have massive effects on salary.

I'm at a stage where I wouldn't mind a job that kills some of my love for something, like IT which I do have a passion for, in order to knock out the rest of my bills and build a safety net. One year at that rate would dismantle the remaining bills plaguing me.

"Heaven in hardware" has been my retirement goal for quite a while. Chase your dream!

If you thought demotivating management was associated with high pay and white collar work, Lowe’s will disabuse you of that notion.

You've got the right idea, that video is spot on. I quit software for "work" in 2010 and moved to a job working for myself (self directed) doing work that I felt mattered (purpose driven) and that was work that required constant self improvement, both mental and physical (mastery). I'm no longer behind a desk, I meet new people every day and I am much happier. I also write more software now than I ever did at "work," because I write software with the express intent of supporting my self-employment endeavors - and not for anybody else.
- Finally, someone watched the video, life changing. Yeah, I had none of that and I want it back.

Thank you for sharing this! I was a software engineer for over 10 years and was let go with most of my department in June. I've been coasting on SUB payments, enjoying the temporary freedom, and learning sooo much about myself. I've been applying to similar jobs, but the longer I've been away from that world, the less I want to go back to it. So much of me wants to run to a job I always wanted growing up - a barista, and restart my photography business which I had to drop as it was too much to balance with a full-time job. I've been mentally stuck the last few months trying to figure out what I want to do... it's nice to read something from someone in a slightly similar situation who is also considering a completely different path. I wish you the best of luck on your new journey, and I hope you find happiness in whatever work you decide on!

I noticed when I do volunteer work I look forward to getting my hands dirty and the physical labor involved. I quip to my wife that I'm going to go be a mailman or learn a trade, etc., but I'm semi-serious. 20+ years of ups and downs and it feels like IT is valued in general less and less. Even if a company does everything "right" like the video describes... a lot of companies are still quite toxic to work for overall. It's compounded by the fact that changing jobs in the field is painful now with multiple interviews required, etc. in a very crowded pool of talent.
Do it. It's not like it has to be permanent if you end up not liking it.

As a religious studies researcher both sysadmin and hard labor give me joy because they’re solvable problems and working with my hands

Man my local bicycle shop is looking for mechanics, and I'm like.........could I afford that instead of my current desk job?
I'm qualified; I'm pretty good mechanically, except for wrapping bar tape. I'm slowly getting better at it, but I'm definitely not to the professional standard a bike shop would want. But I'm sure they'd make me practice that.
- There’s only one way to find out

I dropped out of the IT game before I even started (dropped out of an IT qualification 20yrs ago), and can honestly say it was totally worth it.
Now I spend some happy evenings working on IT side projects related to my main career (entertainment) and it's fun. I even make extra cash doing freelance programming but because it's not my main hustle I get to choose to say no.
What I'm saying is while you are at the hardware doing what you enjoy, there is nothing stopping you from doing freelance IT work on the side, just look for the projects that inspire you. It's not all or nothing decision..

High Tech Low Life... Gas Station Clerk Freelancing as Web Dev with 20 yrs of experience.

Not at all, I stepped down from a sysadmin gig for a job with less responsibility, more pay and now, after a couple of ownership changes, I'm working for a bigger company than I ever would have otherwise.

You're not crazy. If you're making enough to live on and you're happy, then I'm not sure what else a person could ask for.
For my part, I have a decent job in healthcare, making a good salary by any measure, but it's emotionally strenuous on the best of days and I dream of quitting to go start a flower farm. The bad days are utterly soul-sucking, so I absolutely cannot do this kind of work for another 18 years (when I'll turn 54 too), so I fully intend to do similarly to you once I am financially secure enough. Definitely not retail for me though; I got enough of that in my college days. 😛

who gives a fuck? do what makes you happy.

83k?? I've been in IT for 2 years and I'm about making that much. Would more money help? Maybe job hop to a company that fits your vibe better?
- More money just makes it harder to leave. It’s like testing your pain tolerance.
  If you told people tomorrow that they could live without worrying about losing their place to live with a reasonable amount of food. Assuming they could buy the necessities of life with a few niceties.. most people would stop caring about money and worrying so much.
  What society is doing to people, turning them into monthly bill calculators is ridiculous and stress/fear inducing. These are imaginary bullshit systems we’re forcing people to become experts on.
  A big chunk of it is to ensure that the top of ladder stays the top, so they distract distract distract.
  If I could survive comfortably and support my family while helping people fix and improve their living spaces at Lowe’s, that sounds like a wonderful way to live…
  
  Find a place that doesn't feel like torture with a management team who isn't shitty. My first job in IT was for DXC, a massive MSP with 100k+ employees. I was applying for new jobs 3 months in because I saw it was unsustainable for me. Just before my 1 year I got an offer. I now work for a smaller ~250 person company with a management style that doesn't make me anxious or stressed. I also do woodworking as a hobby and built myself a desk, coffee bar and bench. I firmly believe that the right job can let you have your cake and eat it too. It's just a struggle and a job in itself to find the good cake in the first place.

Its good to destress sometimes
- Chewing your nails, pulling your hair, pacing; all great ways to distress

IMAGINE SUCKING CORPO DICK THIS HARD
- I'm a total loser, redefining my life to do what I want, taking a scary risk for a massive pay cut. Shoot me now.
  
  Ha, imagine being a troll and having to read 'Lowes' as the takeaway to your post just to come up with something edgy.

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