7mo ago

Self-described Nazi becomes first person jailed in Australia for performing outlawed salute

www.nbcnews.com

Summary

Jacob Hersant, a self-described Nazi, was sentenced to one month in prison, becoming the first person in Australia jailed for performing an outlawed Nazi salute.

Convicted in Victoria for making the salute outside a courthouse in October, Hersant’s act followed new legislation banning the gesture.

Magistrate Brett Sonnet justified the sentence, citing Hersant’s intent to promote Nazi ideology publicly.

Hersant’s lawyer argued that his actions were nonviolent and claimed they were protected as political expression, stating plans to appeal the ruling on constitutional grounds.

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7mo ago

Self-described Nazi becomes first person jailed in Australia for performing outlawed salute

www.nbcnews.com /news/world/australia-jails-first-person-performing-banned-nazi-salute-rcna179260

101 comments

I have a reason to post a Riker after what happened in the U.S. on Tuesday! Oh god, it's better than therapy...

Good.
It was a mistake letting Nazis and others practice their terrorist views in public. Freedom of expression is not and never should be an absolute right.
- I understand why people seem to think we should tolerate these views, because "muh free speech," but to them, I say:
  
  The paradox of tolerance doesn't exist once you understand that tolerance is a social contract.
  If one party doesn't adhere to the contract, then the other party also doesn't have to either.

Imagine being his lawyer and having to come up with an argument to defend him. Yeesh
- A lawyer one time said that his job when defending someone that couldn't be defended is guaranteeing that the prosecutors do their job property just because the guy is totally guilt

"My support of political ideologies which directly propose genocide is completely non-violent, trust me bro."
- As long as you comply
  
  And you aren't part of thee group were genociding

It's the tolerance paradox, you can't tolerate these people and have a peaceful democracy. This is the answer.

Didn't we used to kill Nazi's and celebrate their demise in movies like Indiana Jones?
- Apparently we didn't kill enough
  
  Would be easier to continue if our state apprati didn't protect them. You'd get shot by police for shooting at Nazi's now.
- No apostrophe in a non-possessive plural noun.
  But yes.
  
  I see what you did their'e

Self-described Nazi
Yeah, there's a term for that: Nazi. Just call them that.
- I think it's to clarify that it's not coming from the judgement of the newspaper. The Nazi himself is calling himself a Nazi. So, there's no doubt about it.
- Since I doubt he is a certified member of the National Socialist Party, I'd argue the more accurate term would be "neo-Nazi".
- Yeah, who the fuck "desrcribes" themselves as a Nazi? Ah right, a Nazi would do that.
- It should be “self-avowed”

This dude looks so much like the Austrian neo-nazi Martin Sellner that it's actually uncanny. I genuinely thought this was him. Maybe they are long lost brothers?
- The pictured dude in the article is apparently
  Tim Smartt, the lawyer for Jacob Hersant, arriving at court in Melbourne, Australia, on Friday
  and not the shithead himself. But I don't disagree
  
  Nah, it's definitely him. It looks to be an error in the caption. Or his lawyer looks uncannily like his client.

Do it again 😉! Let's rack that baby up to 20 to life!.... How many years did he get?
- It's literally in the summary. 1 month.

The canaries are dying.

Y'all are so used to boot licking that you pretend it is a fashion accessory.

It's pretty absolutely bullshit to be jailed for wrongthink and a hand gesture. That's some Winnie the Pooh shit.
- Tolerance is a social contract. Those who deny it to others aren't protected by it.
  
  Do you just rape a girl because it's intolerance when she tells you no?
- He's not getting arrested for 'wrongthink'.
  He was arrested for being a terrorist.
  
  Well now you're just slapping on labels without their meaning.

I don't like Nazis for sure, but I also don't like people being jailed for expressing their views and speech. So my thought would be to get like two or three hundred protesters together and all go to that courthouse and make that salute and make them arrest every one of them. If the court system wants to waste their own time and tons of taxpayer money, prosecuting people for free speech, then let them do so. Kind of like Iran using $2,000 drones to cost Israel $2 million missiles.
- I'm sorry, since when was being a nazi in public in any way tolerable? We aren't talking about "I don't like cereal" here, the nazis were arguably one of the darkest times of our history. Trying to revive it is absolutely not acceptable.
  
  Never give the government power that you would not want turned against you because governments change. I vehemently disagree with their cause, but I would also vehemently defend their right to express their opinion.
- No, fuck off with your take. That is free speech taken to a literal extreme. Allowing free speech to this extent encourages fascist and Nazi movements to flourish. Nazis should feel uncomfortable or unable to express these views.
  
  Eco warriors should worry about being imprisoned for going to demonstrations. These are the kinds of things that can happen when you give your government power to jail people they do not like.
  Edit: What happens if Australia's equivalent of Donald Trump gets in office and enact the policy mentioned above?
- "I don't like Nazis" "We should get 300 people to give the Nazi salute outside a courthouse". Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. I say this with all the sincerity in my heart, you are a moron and you are part of the problem. You are contributing to the rise of alt-right and fascist leaders around the world. There is zero leeway in this argument, everything Nazi related is bad and none of it should be tolerated.
  
  Yes, and I think that you should be one of the people who shows up outside the courthouse and does it. Not because you are a Nazi, but because they will arrest you and you're making a point.
- Fascism is not an opinion, it's a crime.
  
  Who decides what is and is not a crime? Does a crime need a victim? It does the victim have to be physically harmed in a crime for it to be considered a crime.
- 300 Nazis outing themselves and going to prison to (hopefully) be rehabilitated with counseling?
  Don't threaten me with a good time.
  (I am aware the prison system is not super fantastic in Australia, but we're miles ahead of the US, and some of this 300 may actually be dissuaded. And also, they're Nazis, so. If you believe your fellow human beings are animals, then you don't get free speech, sorry.)
- Australia doesn't have the first amendment because we aren't the US. We do however think that if you want to talk shit and start fights, we have the legal right to tell you to calm the fuck down with extreme prejudice, see exhibit a.
- Hate speech is not free speech. That's as simple as it gets. Most rational countries understand this.
- Not how it works. Gestures, like words, have a meaning. Even in the USA, saying certain words in certain ways can get you arrested; harassment, threats, etc. This gesture is meant to convey threat and to harass religious and racial minorities. There is no other reason to make the gesture.
  
  This gesture is meant to convey threat and to harass religious and racial minorities.
  I'd even take it a step further and say it's a gesture made by a very dangerous minority that threatens the vast majority.
  Nothing says "I'm willing to forgo my humanity to wage pointless violence on literally the rest of the world." like the cringiest dipshit salute ever devised.
- This is not the correct way to do this.
  
  Because it works and shows the foolishness? Yeah.
- I'm Canadian. We have hate speech laws. 99% of us are never going to be hindered by or in any way affected by these hate speech laws. Because 99% of us aren't going around being Nazis and calling for violence and the extermination of ethnic races.

101 comments