basically a 'them perticipating jn genocide is ok bc they won't target minorities at "home"'
basically a 'them perticipating jn genocide is ok bc they won't target minorities at "home"'
ik that Biden isn't re-running, but Kamala is basically the same from the macro pov
I don't see the logic.
I think we can all agree that genocide is bad, right? And we can all agree that is happening in Palestine is genocide, correct? And therefore we would like to elect someone who would be more likely to stop the genocide.
The Democrats don't seem to want to stop... But neither do the republicans. I don't see the argument.
To my understanding, neither party has any plans to stop the genocide so what the point of contention? I understand that simply voting will do nothing to fix anything, but picking the lesser evil (which is still evil) will buy us more time. Point is, voting for Trump wouldn't be any better, nor voting for a 3rd party due to the flaws of the First Past The Post voting system.
If one should not vote for the Democrats, then who should we vote for? Trump? Seriously, what's your plan?
The opposition to Third Parties is not an endorsement of Genocide, but a call for solidarity on other issues. This isn't a "Genocide vs. no genocide" election. There are a lot of other issues on the table and ignoring them over one subject that won't be covered anyway is shortsighted
FPTP will render third party votes useless, and every vote going to a third party instead of one of the two actually realistic candidates will serve as a spoiler. Anyone who explicitly decides against voting for Harris/Walz implicitly decides that they're fine with Trump. If you're in a deep blue state, you might be fine either way. But if you're in a swing state, consider this:
If Trump promised to end the Palestinian Genocide, but all other points of his agenda (labor protections, lgbt rights etc.) were the same, would you vote for Trump instead? Would you fuck over every other bit of progress for that one issue?
Not that it's a choice you'd actually get (even if Trump made that promise, you'd be smarter to not believe him), it's a way to check your priorities. If you'd rather use your protest vote to signal disapproval over the Genocide stance than to affect tax policy, abortion law, LGBT rights, the separation of church and state and basically every piece of civil liberty that the Republicunts have made it clear they want to erase, then you're an idiot at best, a bad faith actor at worst.
Yes, Genocide sucks. The best way to do something about it is to spread awareness, organise protests, make discontent with the issue a matter of public attention. This election won't change it, unfortunately.
This ballot isn't the place for single-issue-votes, or even multi-issue-fringe-votes. If the Overton Window can be yanked back to the left and the Christofascists left behind, to the point that the current center becomes the right fringe and there is actual space on the left, then the time will have come for actually progressive issues, like fixing the election system. But for that, the people trying to eliminate Democracy entirely need to go first.
Vote for the things that are on the agenda, not the things that aren't.
Anyone who explicitly decides against voting for Harris/Walz implicitly decides that they're fine with Trump.
And anyone who explicitly decides voting for Harris/Walz explicitly decides they are fine with genocide irrespective of Trump.
If Trump promised to end the Palestinian Genocide, but all other points of his agenda (labor protections, lgbt rights etc.) were the same, would you vote for Trump instead? Would you fuck over every other bit of progress for that one issue?
In a fantasy world where he would actually do it, yes? So you're saying you are okay with max libertarianism in your own county even if that means ethnically cleansing an innocent population in another? That's a very backwards understanding of liberty and human rights.
Also saying "that one issue" when we're talking about a literal genocide is super rich. Would you have said the same thing about the Holocaust? "I know this Hitler guy really hates minorities but look at how much he loves doggos and what amazing things he's doing for the German economy!"
If the Overton Window can be yanked back to the left and the Christofascists left behind
You see voting for a party that has vowed unwavering support for an oppressor to exterminate a native population as a move to the left? You'd rather vote for Librofascists than Christofascists and that's your choice - I'd rather not vote for fascists at all.
Just don't blame voters that draw a hard line at genocide if the Dems lose, rather ask why they are willing to throw an election by not taking a hard stance against the literal worst crime against humanity.
And anyone who explicitly decides voting for Harris/Walz explicitly decides they are fine with genocide irrespective of Trump.
No. They decide that they prioritise the other issues over a vapid gesture of protest.
For direct democratic votes, you directly vote on a specific issue. But in a representative democracy, you vote for the candidate best representing your preferred policies. If there is no candidate that ticks all your boxes, you prioritise and decide on a tradeoff.
That tradeoff takes into account the strategic realities of the voting system. If I have to choose between "Genocide", "Genocide, but worse" and "I'll let the rest decide", abstaining or voting 3rd party is no noble gesture, it's complacency.
In a fantasy world where he would actually do it, yes?
You'd let an out and open fascist take the reigns, if he'd stop one particular genocide?
So you're saying you are okay with max libertarianism in your own county even if that means ethnically cleansing an innocent population in another?
So much wrong with this sentence. First, no, I'm not a libertarian. If you mean liberty, check your translator. Second, we're very far away from "max liberty". Third, that's a false equivalency: To refuse one extreme doesn't equal embracing the opposite. There is a lot of space between them.
Fourth, if it's about the defense of civil rights, I need to look to my own freedom first. I can't help anyone else when I'm chained down myself. Particular if I can't help the others this way anyway, it's a lot smarter to prioritise things I can actually change than try to set a sign and hope it stays up long enough to matter.
Also saying "that one issue" when we're talking about a literal genocide is super rich. Would you have said the same thing about the Holocaust? "I know this Hitler guy really hates minorities but look at how much he loves doggos and what amazing things he's doing for the German economy!"
Brilliant! Your example for "that one issue" is the exact guy Trump would love to buddy uo with! The exact guy whom I hate with a passion because of so many issues, not just one. Would Hitler have been a good person if he hadn't killed the Jews (just enslaved them, deported the gypsies and generally still been an all around racist cunt)?
You see voting for a party that has vowed unwavering support for an oppressor to exterminate a native population as a move to the left?
That says a lot about where the window is, yes. Because both major parties fit that description, except one of them is even worse. Hence, the less bad one is a left, relative to contemporary political center.
You'd rather vote for Librofascists than Christofascists and that's your choice - I'd rather not vote for fascists at all.
So you'd rather have the rest of the people decide? You don't care about gay rights or all that shit, you have no horse in that race, doesn't matter to you whether the winner starts rounding up political enemies (you know, lefties like you and me)?
Because I fucking care. And I'm not going to throw a tantrum and quit the field because one issue I care about isn't even on the board.
Just don't blame voters that draw a hard line at genocide if the Dems lose, rather ask why they are willing to throw an election by not taking a hard stance against the literal worst crime against humanity.
I don't understand why people are so sure that a hard pro-Palestine stance would help them. It would make them the prime target of propaganda designed to alienate the superficial moderates. It would make them a clear enemy of the AIPAC and other pro-Israel PACs that together hold a non-negligible amount of sway. I don't think that the voters they'd gain by that outnumber the white moderates that hear "They're antisemitic moslems" and believe it.
If you believe that using the ballot to protest an issue not being on the agenda is more important than the other issues that are on the agenda, you're very narrow-minded.
I don't know what to think about people claiming to be LGBT+ allies who would even remotely entertain not voting Harris.. as the risk to the people they say they want to protect is domestic as well. This is a palestinians lose or everyone lose waaaayyyyy worse kinda deal .. so yeah.. apparently ideals don't matter that much.
This person is a mod. This is a fake lefty community, co-opted for election interference. The mod is going extremely far out of their way to target the left-leaning candidate specifically and never the right-leaning. It's an attempt to sow division and secure the election for Trump.
I'm literally queer both in terms of sexuality and gender 💀💀 and am against genocide precisely bc of my principles (though I don't live in the US)
bc choosing to support the "lesser of two evils" since they won't target you domestically is lacking any and all backbone. "The dems can have a little genocide, as a treat. After all, they protect minorities in the 'civilised west' and that is the only place that counts" (not putting words in your mouth, just that this is what the position essentially boils down to)
I'm sorry but if you believe you can only be gay if brown people get genocided you're not gay and you just want to kill children.
If someone is willing to genocide anyone, then they'll come for you eventually too. Nazis didn't start their genocide with Jews.
No one is saying how dare you vote for trump to people voicing concerns. People are saying that to individuals willingly not voting, voting for trump in “protest,” or voting third party in “protest”
There's no protest, though. Third parties are the only logical option for anyone with any amount of humanity left in them. Only fascists would vote for genocide, only selfish fascists would vote for genocide on the thought that if they don't they'll get genocided as punishment.
This account is rapid firing out anti Harris content and memes. Two weeks from the election and the amount of content they are putting out, they are clearly a bad actor.
Trump said he will support Israel as well wich is probably his only based take.
leaving this up for everyone to see. person is ofc permabanned
You are a great mod. Thank you.