4mo ago

Is it possible to be comfortable with two desktop OSs (e.g. shortcuts, mouse)

I've been a linux user for 20 years (mostly on KDE). I just started at a new job, and they gave me a mac. I found out later that I could have got a linux machine instead, which is a bit annoying. Still, I know there are some nice things about a mac, and I figured I'd give it a try for a while.

I'm pretty quick moving around my desktop environment, and I'm finding picking up the mac is not too bad. BUT I use keyboard shortcuts a lot, and they are all every different on a mac. So whenever I switch back and forth between my work machine, I end up stumbling a bunch and wasting my time, and getting annoyed. It's mostly keyboard shortcuts, but the trackpad buttons and scrolling are annoying too.

So, question is: is it possible to regularly use two OSs with wildly different control surfaces, and be comfortable with it? e.g. either MacOS + Linux, or I guess MacOS + Windows? Or will it be annoying forever?

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I’ve been Mac at home since 1998 and windows at work almost all of that time. I assume it’s the equivalent of being bilingual at this point.
- I use both at the same desk. I even use the same (windows layout) keyboard on both, and somehow I’m even able to reflexively remember to switch which hotkeys I use, such as win+c and win+v instead of ctrl+c and ctrl+v for copy/paste. I did eventually have to switch the default scroll direction for my mouse wheel though, those being different was just too much lol
- Same for me pretty much, I use both Mac and Windows daily, no problems. It's definitely like being bilingual

Eventually you will get used to it.
You have 3 options.
normalise to OSX shortcuts (and concile your Linux shortcuts to those). You are more likely to encounter an osx machine "in the wild", and if you have to get a new Mac then everything is instantly comfortable. Linux is also easier to customise.
normalise to your Linux shortcuts. Figure out how to script osx to adopt those shortcuts (so you can quickly adopt a new work machine), and accept that you won't always be able to use those shortcuts (like when using a loaner or helping someone).
accept the few years of confusing Osx Vs Linux shortcuts, and learn both.
Option 3 is the most versatile. Takes ages, and you will still make mistakes.
Option 2 is the least versatile, but is the fastest to adopt.
Option 1 is fairly versatile, but probably has the longest adoption/pain period.
If OSX is in your future, the it's option 1.
Option 3 is probably the best.
If you are never going to interact with any computer/server other than your own & other Linux machines, then option 2. Just make sure that every preference/shortcut you change is scriptable or at least documented and that the process is stored somewhere safe

I’m autistic so your mileage may vary with this advice, but:
Just make certain visual elements from the OS part of the context trigger for your skills.
“command-W” to close a tab becomes “ctrl-W”.
“command-right” to switch to next tab becomes “ctrl-shift-pageup” (that one works on mac too).
Each of those commands already exists in a context in your brain, such as “when in a web browser”, so just make the operating system part of that context. You can use visual cues for your subconscious to pay attention to, to activate the context. Like, the top bar or even the fonts of the operating system can be your visual cue.
It is possible, in my experience, to answer your question.
- Thanks, that's decent advice. Actually I think the different feel of the keyboard already does that to some extent. No so much the mouse, but that's an easier fix.
  
  That works too.
  I guess the reason I use fonts and OS edges as my contextual cues is that I dual boot my macbook, so I’ve got the same equipment for windows and mac os.
  Really the main thing for me is the look and feel of the apps. Firefox just looks subtly different in windows, as do most apps that are cross platform.

I was in a similar situation.
I configured the Mac to use my expected shortcuts when possible and got used to the stuff I couldn't change. I believe the mouse/track pad behaviour is pretty customizable, so you should be able to convert it to what you expect.
Congratulations on the new job.
- I believe the issue is that both settings change at the same time, so either the mouse feels backwards or the trackpad does.
  There were some third party tools to change that

I had it like that and it was OK for two years or so until someone broke in at home while I was sleeping and stole my iMac.
So from my experience it gets better. Later I had to work on a Windows machine at work that again took a couple of weeks but eventually I also was OK using both at the same time.

You can customize MacOS shortcuts and trackpad/mouse gestures and buttons to match whatever you're used to (and more) using BetterTouchTool
It's very popular software for this reason.
- Have heard of that, will give it a crack, thanks!

I changed all the KDE shortcuts to be like on Mac (because I like those more). I have a keyboard with Mac layout for my Linux PC and have swapped meta and ctrl via the keyboard settings (i.e. you press ⌘C but software receives ctrl+c), because a lot of non-KDE apps are way worse about remapping shortcuts so if they really want ctrl I at least want it to be on the ⌘ key, and also because the meta key behaves weirdly at least in Qt, for example it doesn’t block text input when held down unlike ctrl.
These are the big annoyances with this that do trip me up:
Terminal (since I’ve switched ⌘ and ⌃, the standard shell keys such as ⌃C are now ⌘C instead because that is unremappable in Konsole, and I’ve had to put copy/paste/etc. on ⌃C etc. instead)
Text navigation in Firefox — while I remapped the bindings for KDE/Qt, it’s impossible to do that in Firefox which means ⌥◀︎ is “navigate back” instead of “move caret back one word”. This is the most awful because it keeps making me reload pages when I’m editing text and don’t pay attention
Text navigation in KDE/Qt apps — it’s so close to good but I can’t remap the “extend selection word left/right” keys from ⇧⌘◀︎/▶︎ to ⇧⌥◀︎/▶︎ to be like the “move caret” keys (⌥◀︎/▶︎). Same for the select to start/end of line keys.

Yeah, I've had two jobs in Mac environments while running a Windows or Windows and Linux at home. When I'm tired is the time I make the most goofs, which is usually around the time I should get off computers for the day and touch some grass.
Interesting that track pad and mouse are specific annoyances for you. You don't have to use an Apple mouse with an Apple computer, you can use other brands with a more robust scroll wheel.
- Yeah, I use the laptop without a mouse a lot - I don't love carrying it around, and I sit on a couch a fair bit. The lack of a middle button like my lenovo has is annoying (but this is also an OS and shortcut thing - no middle-click selection paste in MacOS, and no middle click to close tab either).
  I wouldn't touch an apple mouse with a ten foot pole 😅

Dunno about mac. I work on Windows for 10 years and have been daily using a Linux KDE laptop for hobby, gaming and casual use for 7.
Honestly, I just don't think about it at this point. I even have a mouse and keyboard with fast switch between devices and just turn my attention to the other one when I switch.

I got a MacBook a bit earlier this year, and the keyboard took me a while to get used to, but I got used to it eventually and now I'm pretty comfy on both it and KDE.
That being said, you probably have way more of a muscle memory than me, as I've only been using Linux for around 4 years, so it might be a bit more difficult for you to get used to it.

It takes time but you get used to it. I now regularly use MacOS + Linux + Windows and can easily switch smoothly between all three.

Most definitely. I used to carry 3 laptops with me, one being Windows, another being my MacBook, and another being a Linux laptop. I now only carry the Linux and Windows laptops and traded the MacBook for a newer iPad Pro. I definitely became accustomed to all 3 OSes keyboard shortcuts.
You do find some overlap which helps. Mac was a bit of a struggle and still is with my iPad’s keyboard in figuring out whether it’s CMD or CTRL key for the shortcut. Even worse was when I used it to remote into a Windows computer as some used one and others used the other as the CTRL key in Windows.
Just takes practice and you grow as you go, the more you use it.
- Yeah, the Cmd/Ctrl thing is the worst so far, because many of the combinations use the same letters, but the chord key is in a different place. But that also seems like the hardest thing to change..

Eh. There was a time when I was adept at macOS, windows, redhat, and SGI.
- No context switching issues at all? If so, any ideas on how that came about?
  
  No issues. I don’t know, it was in my early 20s. That was 20 years ago. It just wasn’t a big deal.

Where do you work, and are they hiring?
- At a university, so I guess yes?
  
  Get a keyboard with VIA customization capability and unify the shortcut experience to your exact preference

Sure, why not?
My work setup is a mac (mac keyboard), my home setup is a either mac (windows keyboard) or windows (windows keyboard) and I'm quite comfortable with all 3 layouts. Occational I'll miss some shortcuts on the windows keyboard, but I'll usually get it on the second attempt.

I feel like there's a wonderful emacs joke in there but I'm too sleepy to think of one.
Depends greatly on your own tolerance for adapting to different environments and mentally task switching between them.
I find it's not too bad unless I'm panicking for whatever reason.
- I probably wouldn't get it unless you translate it to vim anyway 😘

You'll get used to it with time. I use the Mac keyboard layout with my Windows stuff too now and it helps a little. I still use the Windows shortcuts on Windows though, I just mean the flipped alt and Win/Cmd keys.
Also, grab this program. The biggest loss from Windows on Mac is moving windows around with hotkeys. https://rectangleapp.com/
- Yeah, I found Rectangle last week. It's killer, especially on multiple monitors. I hate that macOS doesn't have a proper maximise function by default. The move-to-half-the-screen shortcuts are great.
  
  I need to get it set up to work with multiple monitors. I haven't done that yet.

I find it incredibly annoying. Assuming dual boot or VDI to exclude physical differences, even things like the mouse scroll speed irritates me. Differences in scaling, differences in accomplishing simple but repetitive actions. I don’t have the patience for that anymore.
- So you tried it for a while and gave up? How long?
  
  Did Linux only for 5 years for college.
  Did a Linux laptop for about 6 months now as my recreational device. Just re-imaged it tonight after your post reminded me that I’m not enthused with Linux.

38 comments