Recommendations other than Bambu and Prusa?
Recommendations other than Bambu and Prusa?
I currently run a Voxelab Aquila I got for $120 three years ago. It largely replaced a Monoprice Mini, and the Aquila's done some surprisingly good work for me, but I may look for something new to put on the ol' birthday list. I would like a flat bed and some modern QoL improvements built in (he said, side-eyeing the BLTouch clone he never installed), but I'm still looking to play in the shallow-end, price-wise, and anyway Bambu just has "future enshittification" written all over it. I don't do anything time-sensitive, and I'm not afraid to put the whole thing together, so who are the current leaders in the value space? Recent machines from Creality?
Sovol V8 is a nice printer, especially for its price. Based on the voran v2.4 but pre-assembled.
Came here to say Sovol.
A big Core XY for under $600 seems nice. Have to consider it.
I would only do a Prusa if you want a tool that just works and will work in the future. I don't regret my MK3 at all. I do regret a little KP3 Kingroon. I just never use it. It is cheap and a decent deal in a budget printer. The thing is, the whole hardware spec mindset and budget printers are not a path to the same place or end game. Everyone I know that buys a bottom tier printer, sticks with it, and actually prints owns several budget printers. Almost everyone that talks about how great one is, spends a bunch of time fiddling with it and almost always has several of these machines, of which one is ever working.
I got the Prusa first, and only got the Kingroon to try out klipper, modding, and determine if I wanted to build a Voron. A Voron 2.4 is great for a machine designed specifically for ABS. I know ABS extremely well from all of my years painting cars when almost all trim parts and bumper covers are made of the stuff. At one point, I considered making prototype and rare automotive parts using a Voron 2.4. If you do not know, the 2.4 has a totally stationary bed, and a core x/y like print head that moves inside a rigid cube. The actual print head rises with each layer, unlike a Core X/Y where the bed is lowered with each layer. This keeps the air around the print as still as possible which is absolutely critical for large ABS prints that have thickness variations in the walls and thin structures. Even in a good heated temperature controlled enclosure most printers struggle with this kind of print. I've made many iterations of tuned wall thicknesses to make large ABS prints work on my MK3 in a totally sealed enclosure.
This is my point, if you're going to buy a project printer, buy one that is for some special niche. I spent most of my life learning this lesson the hard way: "there is nothing more expensive than being cheap/poor." Buying anything twice costs more than doing it right the first time, and the physical cost neglects all of your time as worthless. There is a major fallacy in the assumption that hardware specifications count for anything of value. Unless you are an embedded hardware developer that somehow does not value your time, the hardware specifications are an irrelevant joke. The level of development that has gone into dialing a setup as well as a (well aged) Prusa is not trivial. You can't just roll a marlin config and get comparable results. This software blind spot almost always results in the person playing with a perpetual printer project instead of a tool they actually use for useful stuff. That is a perfectly acceptable hobby if that is what you are looking for. My advice is that I do not regret buying the tool first and having something that will just work for the rest of your life. If you want a printer project, that is what you get for your second machine.
I will second this, even though I also agreed with "build a Voron". My 2.4 is a massively capable printer, and has a lot of quality of life features like actual mechanical bed leveling, but odds are your first build will have some teething issues. My extruder motor didn't have a fully aeat wire terminal in its factory harness so it extruded inconsistently. Thankfully it was easy to find and fix. I've had a few wire breaks in my cable chains because I didn't leave enough slack in the runs. The build itself is also long, but I did find it to be straightforward. Vorons are also Vorons, so the modding is endless.
Printer as a tool? Prusa. Maybe also Voron, especially if you want print volume/raw speed/quality of life. Printer as a tinkering device? Voron. Ship of theseus as you upgrade your way to a better printer? Ender.
For me I was looking for reliability, so I ended up with Prusa. But I ended up with them thanks to a few simple rules I followed.
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Can the machine and it's parts be replaced with off shelf components?
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Does it use, or is the platform compatible with open source slicers (Prusaslicer/Cura)?
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Does the community support the device with mods on 3D model repositories (Thingiverse/Printables)?
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Does the manufacturer have a track record for support (or the lack thereof)?
Before I got my Prusa, the Creality Ender 3 was the goto, and it was a really reliable machine. For my printing needs I need a direct drive print head, and a better auto bed leveling routine. But the Ender 3 s1 looks pretty good as an alternative.
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Bambu just has "future enshittification" written all over it.
I disagree. It's the reason why everyone else is scrambling soooo fucking hard to catch up with them. The A1 is absolutely a killer value for a machine. If anyone asks about multicolor, Bambu is the only one I've seen that's as reliable as it needs to be. I cannot recommend anyone else for multicolor.
There are quite literally not any machines out on the market that even come close to Bambu with their multitude of sensors. They've got tangle sensors, they've got programming that will detect blobs or disconnects of prints from the bed -- really - nobody comes close.
I suppose if a given machine can work in LAN or sneakernet mode, then it's not THAT bad, but I was referring more to their heavy reliance on Cloud, closed source (possibly in violation of other projects' licensing), and proprietary parts. If any 3D printer maker is going to start hiding features behind a paywall someday, it's them.
Or the RFID chips on their spools.
They do quite a lot of things that are fine atm but are gateways to giving them a huge amount of control if they every want to flip that switch - like if they get brought out or their investors start wanting to squeezing them for all they are worth.
I don't think you understand how enshittification works. It comes in phases. Bambu is still in the early phase of providing value to the consumer to grow marketshare. But it has all the Hallmarks of "we're going to lock all this shit down once we've destroyed the competition, then jack up prices while removing features". As opposed to virtually every other company that has an open-source ethos.
Been around quite a while, and I understand perfectly how enshittification works. However, this still uses open source technologies at its core, and you'll always be able to use those things. You can't enshittify the core feature of this machine, because it's built into it.
You can enshittify things that your customer doesn't own - services, and the like.
But you cannot enshittify something you don't control: The Slicer, etc.
The machine reads gcode, the machine spits out plastic. Reliably. There's no avenue for making that worse in order to extract money.
Their cloud services, their remote monitoring...all just silly bonuses. None of that shit matters, and none of that is why Bambu is the best right now. What makes them the best is the added sensors on their machine, and the attention they paid to the build, quality, and operation of the machine.
The slicer, is open source - alternatives already exist (Orca Slicer). And enshittification only starts once a platform has matured and fully taken over the market; and even then - doesn't always happen. It usually happens to US-based publicly traded companies. Which Bambu is not.
What you're spreading is FUD. Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. You have no proof that these things will happen, and you're pearl clutching like Bambu will be the only ones who do it if/when that happens.
If you want to give up having the literal BEST VALUE, MOST ROBUST machine on the market out of some misplaced fear that doesn't even have any merit...so be it. Go for it.
Enshittification is for services. Things you don't own. This is a product that runs without any need to be connected to the internet. It will continue to run exactly like it is, exactly like you bought it. Sure, Bambu's cloud-connect, and all that garbage? Sure - they could change those things. But that's not what you buy a Bambu for.
In fact, ALL of the machines being suggested -- don't even have the services which could potentially be worsened in the future! So you're even giving up a whole set of features, on the chance that one day you may not have them? But are willing to buy a machine without them instead? This is absolutely the most absurd line of thought I've ever encountered.
Not only that, but Bambu has been working with these guys: https://github.com/X1Plus/X1Plus -- To allow an open source firmware on the X1C. You don't do that if you're planning on locking down the platform.
I love Elegoo's printers. Got a Neptune 2S and a 3 Pro tuned and running Klipper, they're good workhorses
I run a repair shop, and the Elegoo Neptune 4 is actually quite nice. The hot end is way easier to repair than the 3 and it's quite fast as well. Seconding this one. Downside is that they use a custom-length nozzle. But everyone seems to be doing that now.
The Sovol line of printers is good too, especially the SV-08 - It brings the voron into the world where it's not just a trophy printer that proves you can handle the worst of things.
I was thinking the Neptune 4 plus looked pretty good. If I can get my print capacity to 300mm in X and Y, options for my other hobbies (keyboard building in particular) open up. Then, I've never really tried TPU, so direct drive also seems nice.
…Voron? 😔 Sorry
Haha, came here to say the same thing.
Aside from what's already been mentioned there's the Qidi plus 4. Reviewers seem to like the newer Qidi printers but I have no clue how closed off their ecosystem is. Also seems to be about the price seems to be 800 usd which is cheaper than a Prusa but more expensive than some of the other options given.
I just received a Kobra 3 combo. I’m very impressed with the quality of the machine and the prints. My Voron 2.4 is still my go-to. I’ve heard a lot of good things about qidi lately.
Side note: MM prop shop on youtube just did a video comparing all the printers she’s been using lately and it felt very honest and accurate. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zLrxY3G3Zi8
I have an Anycubic Kobra 2 that is pretty OK. Only mods I've done are print a new fan duct for better cooling and flash klipper on it, other than that it's original HW. It obviously requires some tuning for best possible results, but the printing with just Anycubics setup guide OOTB were decent.
Never, ever buy Anycubic FDM printers. They are the worst garbage on the market. I have the complete opposite opinion about their resin machines though. Their FDM machines have faulty wiring; as they chose the wrong materials for their ribbon cable assemblies; and any time I've asked them for a set of cables to replace a faulty one, they've sent me the wrong set of cables....up to 3x in a row.
It's bad enough, and they know it's bad enough that they actually removed a bunch of their FDM machines from their own slicer. Additionally, they use a modified version of Smoothieware, violating the license by not giving out the modifications they made to work with the screen.
I have a k1 Max and a K1C, I loaded rooted firmware, mainsail, and KAMP. They are running like champs. Once the K2 has a couple revisions it's probably my next purchase.
Tevo tornado.
My prints make this forum seem like a sad joke.
i have an old flsun super racer delta printer that i really like. it's about 5 or 6 years old now, but it still cruises along like a champ. only drawback is that deltas are tall machines by comparison to other printers.
The only other disadvantage I can think of is smaller dimensions in X and Y. At a minimum, I'd like to be able to keep printing 200+ mm squares. The inherent speed and stability seem nice, though.