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Give me ten minutes and I can 'prove' that any one was or wasn't a Socialist depending on my mood.
Well, Lemmy seems to think that anyone who is not a Democrat is automatically a Republican and/or wants a Republican to win. So...
Back in the day I had the privilege of knowing some old school Communists. People who had gone to Spain to fight Fascism and been blacklisted at home.
One of the stories they told was about how in 1968 they were warning young voters to get to the polls to stop Nixon. It wasn't that they were in love with Hubert Humphrey, but they knew he was a million times better than Nixon.
The situation is the same today. If you aren't voting for Harris and every other Dem you're ignoring reality.
My grandfather went through something similar. He faced relentless hate and pressure from both sides of the political spectrum, but he never caved and stayed true to his convictions.
Just like those old-school Communists, he knew the power of standing firm, even when the world seemed against him.
Choosing the "lesser of two evils" was never his style, and I’m the same way. I won’t be bullied into casting a vote I don’t believe in, and neither would he.
In my opinion, respecting someone’s decision to vote their conscience is a lot more powerful than forcing them to pick the so-called “realistic” choice.
I won't be voting Harris. I'm proud to vote third party.
I'm sure you think you sound like you have integrity, but it sounds like privilege to me.
Women have actually died because they couldn't get abortions.
I could point out a lot of other things that happened because of Trump, but let's just deal with this one issue.
And you totally misread the idea of the old school Communists standing firm.
Another thing they talked about was Ho Chi Minh working with the American OSS in WW2. Ho would have known all about America's history of racism and genocide, but that didn't matter because there was a bigger threat to his people.
And please name the 'Third Party' you're planning on voting for. There's proof that the GOP has helped both the Libertarians and the Greens get on the ballot to help split the Dem vote.
I’m sure you think you sound like you have integrity, but it sounds like privilege to me.
Because I am not voting Harris, I have privilege?! I promise you make more money than I do. So you have more privilege than me. So are you evil because of it?
Touched a nerve, did we?
Hah it's already sensitized https://lemm.ee/comment/15063493
Nope. I am pointing out that you have privilege. Are you ashamed of that privilege?
Seems we did.
Why? Because I replied? You are the one that went to the effort to find a graphic. Seems like the nerve that was touched was yours. lol
I'm voting Socialist Workers Party, (Rachele Fruit).
And because of Lemmy, I promise I will NEVER vote Democrat. The hate and bullying here has been unbelievable.
The hate and bullying here has been unbelievable.
So, I point out that people have actually died because of Trump, but your feelings are more important.
And you sound like a third rate Marvel villain. "Curse you, Captain America! You've forced me to blow up this school!"
So, I point out that people have actually died because of Trump, but your feelings are more important.
And people have actually died because of Biden/Harris admin.
I'm voting third party. Thanks!
De la Cruz here.
I wasn’t bullied into casting a vote for Hilldog (she fucking sucks). I am going to vote against the orange bad because I’ve seen how awful his time in office was. I’m not a fan of Harris, but I’m very anti-him. Dems aren’t good enough, but he’s terrible enough that I must do what I can to prevent another term.
Third parties will never be viable if we keep dismissing them and refuse to vote for them, which only strengthens the duopoly's stranglehold on our political system.
So your goal is to make them viable by giving them a pittance of a vote during an incredibly polarized election? How many local seats has your third party won? I wonder if they do anything or have any success outside of ~2 months directly before an election? Why didn't I see shit like this year round from you losers?
There are people affected by your lack of empathy and harm reduction. You stomp your feet and blame the system, and then make a net-zero or negative dent in it and call that integrity. You're no better than the brainwashed right who would vote for a literal felon.
I'm just voting for who I like and who I want. Thank you!
It's not bullying, it's simple math. Harris wins or Trump wins. Harris isn't perfect, but Trump is unacceptable. Voting for neither is a choice, but it's choice that says you don't care which one wins. You don't care if a fascist bigot who wants to abuse his power to control women and line his pockets wins the election. Anyone that's OK with that is either themselves a fascist bigot who wants Project 2025, or they're stupid.
So saying you don't care if Trump wins tells me you might be a fascist bigot, or you might be stupid. If you're just stupid, that's fine, vote your conscience. But if you're a fascist bigot pretending, you might as well admit it to the world and admit you're supporting Trump.
Either way, it's not a persuasive argument to make anyone think you have anything of value to say.
💯
Voting is always an act of harm reduction. Choosing to vote for a non-viable option or not vote is a statement that neither you nor those you care about (in life or the abstract) are in minimal risk of harm or you don’t care about the harm they may undergo.
That’s either privilege or sociopathy.
And honestly I suspect there is a lot of astroturf trying to make the argument. Far too many people on social media are using the same talking points, eg "I can't support a genocide enabler." Which is a valid issue, but it's disingenuous to think that Trump is going to be better for Palestine. Harris, being a human being with empathy, would certainly want the violence to end. Trump wants the genocide to finish. He's said that. A Jill Stein protest vote is nothing.
Well, I'm not voting for Stein. And according to Lemmy everyone who isn't voting for Harris is a russian agent.
It's not everyone. But it's not no one, either. It's hard to separate the liars from the people who don't know any better.
Then maybe let's not be so quick to label someone a russian agent just because they are not voting for your candidate then.
Every vote for Harris is stealing a vote from third-party candidates who represent real change. By sidelining those voices, you’re indirectly helping Trump win!
If you really want to avoid a Trump win, supporting a viable alternative outside the two-party system is the only way to push the conversation forward.
You trying to bully and pressure me is either privilege or sociopathy.
You trying to bully and pressure me is either privilege or sociopathy.I did neither, in fact I don’t even respond to your comment where you might think I was responding directly to you.
Considering any third party is viable in the system as it exists today, make as much sense as playing Chess using the rules from Candy Land. It’s delusional and detached from reality.
It’s an unfortunate mathematical truth and no amount of wishing it otherwise will change that. That’s why for any non-primary election, it must be treated as harm reduction above all.
How election math works: a vote for Harris is taking a vote away from a third party candidate and is giving it to Trump.
I’ll leave this here in hopes you’ll watch it. There is no way for what you’re hoping to actually succeed in the current environment. The only way out is through and the only way through is voting as harm reduction.
This poster gets SOOO close to making an observation that would utterly destroy its half-baked, IMO inauthentic reasoning, if it'd only take a closer look at what it's saying. So, I'll close the gap here.
Suppose we could wave our magic wand and get everyone to agree with this poster, getting everyone who is voting Kamala Harris today to vote for ... Rachele Fruit. But the price of this vote is that everyone who WAS voting Rachele Fruit now has to vote Kamala Harris. Suddenly, it's Harris who is spoiling the vote for Fruit...and Jill Stein remains as much as spoiler for Fruit in this magic universe as she is for Harris in this real one. That's the problem with third parties. No matter how the votes line up, whether it be for the Social Workers Party in this parallel universe or the Democrats in this one, votes for Third Parties merely harm your political ideology by taking away votes from the major party on your side of the political aisle and empower the major party most opposite of your ideology. You'd have to go to another parallel where we made Ranked Choice voting work before you could risk a SWP vote in a Rep-Dem world or a Dem vote in a Rep-SWP world.
SOOOO close, yet so far away.
I don't care. I am happily voting third-party. Even if you don't like it. Thank you! :)
Goddamn, Mods, you finally remove something this poster says? Are you starting to see the light in regards to this...person?
Mods have always removed my comments if they think I have broken the rules.
I get no favoritism from the mods, nor have I ever I asked for it.
Buuuuutttt you should probably check what comment was removed before ya celebrate too much. I don't think it's quite the "gotcha" you were hoping for. :)
Now this is a load of utter, complete, unmitigated bullshit. The mods are almost 100% behind this poster, no matter how much it claims it's not being showed favouritism. Sure, it's very careful to veil its personal insults and incivility, but coming in and blathering over and over and over and over again about how it's gonna do what it wants here, not just without a care about what the community here wants, but directly flaunting the fact that the community doesn't want any of this bullshit, expressesd as downvotes and a variety of debunking and disparaging comments is most definitely uncivil and should be removed by the mods under Rule 3. But it's allowed to spew its bullshit without any criticism by the mods, while we even hint as to what we think this poster is, and the Mods shut us down hard? If that's not Mods showing favouritism, I don't know what the fuck is.
The mods have never shown me favoritism. In fact, as you pointed out, some of my comments were removed recently. I have no idea what you are going on about.
That’s either privilege or sociopathy.
And the way your post is worded makes think that you may be coming from a place of either privilege or sociopathy.
Just because someone disagree with you, doesn't mean they have privilege or that they are sociopaths. Thank you!
tells me you might be a fascist bigot, or you might be stupid.
And you trying to bully and pressure me, tells me the same things about yourself that you just accused me of. Either way, it’s not a persuasive argument to make anyone think you have anything of value to say.
I'm still voting third party. And proudly. Thank you!
Bully you? No. Pressure you? Yes, of course. Politics is persuasion. And I can honestly say I don't really care how you vote. I'm not arguing with you. I'm pointing out what a horrible decision you're making, the flaws in your mindset (honest or otherwise) so that maybe others will make better decisions than you.
If that hurts your feelings, I'll point out that people have died because Trump was elected. Women have suffered. Children were separated from their families and lost. Our Covid response was abysmal in part because doctors felt the need to incude Trump's name in their briefing reports. This is more important than your feelings. Democracy is at stake, and that's not at all an exaggeration. Trump put three Christian Nationalists on the Supreme Court. My grandchildren will be cleaning up the mess Trump and his supports have caused. So, respectfully, get fucked.
Removed, civility. You were fine right up until the end.
I respect your decision.
And I can honestly say I don’t really care how you vote.
Good! Because nothing you have said has made me change my mind. :)
I’ll point out that people have died because Trump was elected.
Every administration, regardless of party, has implemented policies that have tragically resulted in loss of life—whether it's war, lack of healthcare reform, or economic policies that push people into poverty. Singling out one president as uniquely responsible ignores a long-standing pattern of decisions that harm the most vulnerable.
If we want real change, we need to focus on breaking the cycle, not just blaming one person.
I can vote however I want. For whoever I want. It's my right. I respect your rights to vote for whoever you want. You can respect mine. Thank you!
You have the right to vote how you want. You do not have the right to my respect.
Good. Because I am voting how I want. Regardless of how mad you are about it. Thanks! :)
Your not being bullied, your being bamboozled
Some people are trying to do both. And neither one is working. :)
I'm voting for Hulk Hogan
Ok, then.
If you choose Harris over Trump, you are choosing the lesser of two evils. If you choose between Fruit and Stein, you are choosing the lessor of two weevils.
Rather a weevil than an evil, friend.
If/until the US installs a ranked choice voting system and dissolves the electoral college, third party candidates are not viable.
Third parties will never be viable if we keep dismissing them and refuse to vote for them, which only strengthens the duopoly's stranglehold on our political system.
You understand what you are doing and what people are telling you. No one believes that you don't understand it.
No, there are plenty of genuine Greens and Socialists, no question about it. Quite a few post content on Lemmy without anyone bothering them.
You very specifically get a lot of heat though. This is due to how you interact in comment sections with people, and why you draw so much more heat than our entire instances of actual Marxist-Leninists.
So much this. And it’s precisely how you can tell he’s a troll despite the /c/politics mod’s refusal to acknowledge it.
And this poster's response to this was as predictable as the sun rising in the east, setting in the west, water rolling downhill, and Russell Wilson sitting on the bench for a different team while we pay for him. 🤣
You called this poster out properly, and the mods refusal to let us call a spade a spade here. Readers, I invite you to read the definition of a troll from Merriam-Webster: to antagonize (others) online by deliberately posting inflammatory, irrelevant, or offensive comments or other disruptive content. The poster that constantly changes its name over and over again repeats it'll keep posting its content despite being soundly rejected over and over again, just so it can piss us off. I'm not asking for it to be removed, though I sure won't turn down such an outcome. But can we at least call a spade a spade where this poster is concerned?
I don't post to piss you off though. You just get pissed off. Big difference.
And yes, I will continue to post what I want, when I want, as this is a public forum. You are free to have your political views, and I am free to have mine.
Thanks for the kind words and I support your right to think whatever you want of me.
The reason the mods refuse "to acknowledge it" is because I'm not a troll. Just because you don't agree with and you don't like what I'm saying, doesn't make me a troll.
This community is about diverse political thought. It wasn't created to be an echo chamber in favor of one party.
Thank you!
Once again you intentionally miss the point. It’s your core competency.
I quoted your words, friend.
And?
And I didn't miss the point at all. I told you that the mods don't think I'm a troll, regardless of how much you disagree with my political opinions.
They have removed plenty of my comments when they think I have gone too far. There is no favoritism shown towards me, nor would I ask for any.
The poster you're replying to is very much designed to drive engagement, and any attention, good or bad, serves its purposes. I'd rather not feed this particular type of poster, but if we don't point out the flaws in its reasoning, we might lose a few of those genuine Greens and Socialists.
I don't disagree that voting in America is a pick between a steaming mug of donkey pee, and an elephant dung sandwich, and has been this way for decades. I'm even with you in that we should have a choice that doesn't include donkey pee and elephant dung. But the reality is you can't have 150 million different people in the world's largest picnic each get different food, so there HAS to be a limited menu to vote from, lest nobody can agree on what we're gonna eat and we all go hungry. And whatever has the most votes at the end of the day will be what we all eat, and unfortunately, that looks like it'll be between not just donkey pee and elephant dung, but that the elephant has a bad case of gastroenteritis and the bread on the sandwich is EXTREMELY mouldy, AND there are a crazy number of rabid fans of elephant dung sandwiches for some fucked up reason. There are also a lot of crazies who have a taste for donkey pee, but at least you can wash that down with a stiff alcoholic drink. The elephant diarrhoea with two mouldy pieces of bread, on the other hand, can't be gotten rid of except with a high-pressure wash. Since I don't want the elephant excrement consumers to dictate what I am doing, and there's not enough sane people in the world to offset the donkey pee or elephant dung choosers, I'll pick the lesser of two evils.
And I say this as someone who is already a lockin for Proposition 131 (Colorado's RCV) and who has voted third party in the past.
Yeah, I'm aware. I don't think additional engagement in here actually benefits his goals in the long run, though, so I'm more than happy to take advantage of the situation to discuss the finer points of internet trolling for the benefit of the broader community.
edit: I also actually enjoy this process somewhat, it reminds me of simpler times I suppose. lol
True. Playing Whack-A-Troll is always fun...but we do have to be careful because the Mods have taken HUGE exceptions to calling a spade a spade here, while allowing this poster we're talking about and a whole metric fuckton of other posters with ... similar MOs to post their unmitigated BS unchallenged. Something about wanting to remain civil or something, despite this poster and others like it directly and overtly saying that they'll keep posting their nonsense just to get a rise out of us. You know, the actual definition of trolling?
Fortunately I am also a fairly skilled line toe-er. I can take full advantage of the exact same loopholes as he does.
If this community is going to go down the 4chan troll-hole, which seems steadily more likely as time goes on, I'm not letting it go without a rhetorical fight. Especially when it comes with a pleasant dose of nostalgia.
Heh, I'll leave it to you then. I'll point out the flaws in this poster's logic as I can, but really....with how prolific it is (can't say it's a bot, can't say it's a bot...), that'd be a fucking full-time job.
I honestly don't think it is a bot. I think its a young guy, teens or early 20s, very strong Trump supporter willing to do whatever might help his boy without having to do anything that's not fun.
Which amounts to trolling on Lemmy apparently.
Could be, though I'd question the prolificness. I guess that's why the mods come down on us so hard. You can't be certain of anything because...well, there ARE Russian bot-farms, Trumpers (even teams of them operating in tandem), and of course True Believers (tm), and short of catching the guy in the act and examining his rig, you can't be sure what you're dealing with. That said, IMO, there's not really a huge difference between them when it comes to debunking them. A vote for a third party is a vote for the major party most opposed to your third party in the USA. At least until we get RCV in more places!
What makes trolls so difficult to stamp out is they enjoy the process. You used to be able to starve them by depriving them of interaction, but after qanon demonstrated that internet trolling can have real-world effects, that method stopped working. Now it's a combination of fun and political activism. Where fun leaves off as a motivation, the activism takes over and vice-versa. The combo can reasonably make one extremely prolific, just like how somebody can spend a whole day playing a video game they really like.
The only way to truly combat them at the community level nowadays is to embrace your inner teenager and approach them with the exact same duo of motivations. Since I'm also engaging in an entertaining process, while hopefully providing some education on trolling techniques and critical thinking, I can match his enthusiasm to the extent that real life allows me.
The rest is just checking your phone for notifications regularly, which I do anyway. lol
True Believers ™
I'm not familiar with that term in this context. Can you explain?
Also, I see WAY more pro-Harris posts here than anything else. So do you think there are teams of people and bots posting articles for her? Cuz it's pretty suspicious how many articles there are on here of her. Hmmmm....
A vote for a third party is a vote for the major party most opposed to your third party in the USA.
Nope. A vote for a third party is a vote for a third party. Which I'm proud to cast a vote for. I respect and support you right to vote for whoever you want. Which is the same right I have. Thanks!
Thanks for the compliments. But I don't support Trump. Thank you!
I know it's your opinion that you don't support Trump, but statistically speaking you most likely do. If we consider how many Cruz supporters there are, vs how many Trump supporters wishing to syphon away dem votes, we find the group of Trump supporters is over 10x larger. Given how people can lie on the internet, it's best to go with the statistics over just trusting in your word.
Thank you for the compliments!
The mods here don't show me any favoritism at all, nor have I asked them to. I respect them and the work they do here. If you have an issue with their moderation, please bring it up with them directly. They are quick to reply.
Do you think that is some sort of bad thing?
Yeah? Because I refuse to change my mind? Beause I still haven't. Downvotes or not. I'll post what I want, where I want, when I want and I'll vote for who I want to. As I respect others rights to do the same. Thank you! :)
No, not because you won't change your mind, none of the Marxist-Leninists change their minds on a lot of stuff and still don't draw much heat. Something else.
Why would I care what you or anyone else thinks about other socialists? I have the freedom to believe what I want, vote for who I want, and think for myself.
I’m sure some socialists agree with me, and some don’t.
That’s fine—everyone’s entitled to their own view. You have yours too, and I respect your right to that, but I’m not going to change what I believe just because you don’t like it. Thank you, friend! :)
Just correcting your thought. You like to frequently talk about how persecuted you are for your beliefs, but this is a red herring you lay down, since other people that post pro-socialist content do not get the same reaction as you. If this deflection is intentional, then you're just lying.
Since other people get different reactions for posting the same sort of content you post, it must not be about the content. Some other aspect of your behavior, perhaps, that has nothing to do with being pro-socialist or critical of democrats. Personally I think it's your incessant engagement in trolling behavior, but that's just my own view that I am fully entitled to, of course. :)
See, I didn't ask you to change, I'm just making sure the record is correct. The only one talking about you changing ... is you.
Why would I let your opinions—or anyone else’s on Lemmy—dictate what I believe? Everyone’s free to think what they want, just as I’m free to do the same.
Personally I think it’s your incessant engagement in trolling behavior,
And personally I don't think I'm engaging in trolling behavior. That’s my view that I am fully entitled to, of course. :)
Feel free to block me if you are tired of reading my posts or responding.
I don't care if you think I'm a troll. I'm gonna post what I want, where I want, when I want. As is my right. I don't have to explain anything to you if I don't want to.
I'm not going anywhere. Thanks, friend! :)
See, there's your subtle lie again. I'm not trying to dictate your beliefs, I'm just pointing out patterns. You can believe them or not as you wish. I'm not trying to control you, I'm making sure information is provided to the community. I'm not trying to force you to explain anything, or abuse you, I'm not persecuting you. I'm just disagreeing with you, that's it. All the persecution is in that cute little head of yours.
Oh, I have no interest in blocking you. I'd much rather watch you and use you as an educational example. A lot of people on here are ignorant of more advanced trolling techniques, which makes them vulnerable. A small silver lining of your existence is that you help remedy this.
I’m not trying to dictate your beliefs
I didn't say you were. Do you think that everytime I point out something or say something, it's some little lie or deceit to trick you! lmao
I’m not trying to control you
Because you can't. :)
I’m just disagreeing with you, that’s it.
Cool! I'm disagreeing with you too. So are we friends now?!
I’d much rather watch you and use you as an educational example.
I love that you think of me so much and are so interested in me! Thank you!!
A lot of people on here are ignorant of more advanced trolling techniques, which makes them vulnerable.
I'm not sure what you mean. Who is trolling here? Why are you being so vague?
Sure you did. Right here:
Why would I let your opinions—or anyone else’s on Lemmy—dictate what I believe?
To which I responded that I am simply disagreeing with you, not trying to "dictate your beliefs". That's your persecution lie, a bit of a cornerstone of your persona on here.
I still haven't fully settled on if you're doing it intentionally or you're just really, really Christian. The persecution complex is extremely common in the devout, stemming from their stories about the early days of the church. But yes, I suspect you probably are a troll.
One really has to wonder if you actually cannot grasp why people keep telling you why voting for a third-party in the current US electoral system is throwing away your vote, or if you're just purposely misrepresenting the argument. Because literally nobody here thinks that.
One really has to wonder if you actually cannot grasp why people keep telling you why voting for a third-party
Oh I understand what they and you are trying to say.
I have to wonder if you actually cannot grasp that I don't care and I am voting third-party and my beliefs anyway. :)